Guest AnnieCarvalho Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 I've just started studying the BOM again and I've run into a wall. In the Seminary Guide (which is what I'm using) in the section on 1 Nephi 3, it states that Lehi's family had pitched camp after they walked 3 days. Later it says they are about 180 miles from Jerusalem. I'm thinking, "Wait! That's impossible!" Because when I take my groups across Spain, I walk 20 -30 kilometers each day and I know how far 180 miles is. 180 miles is 290 kilometers, approximately. That means they would have to walk 73 kilometers per day to have gotten there. I walk 6 to 7 hours to get 20-30 kilometers, depending on the terrain, carrying a lightweight 15 pound pack and it's not easy. This means they'd have to have walked at least 18 hours each day, 3 times that amount, women and children included carrying all their provisions, and sleep only 6 hours. I just don't see how that is possible. Does anyone have any insight on this? It's really a bit difficult for me to wrap my head around. Help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 I've just started studying the BOM again and I've run into a wall. In the Seminary Guide (which is what I'm using) in the section on 1 Nephi 3, it states that Lehi's family had pitched camp after they walked 3 days. Later it says they are about 180 miles from Jerusalem. I'm thinking, "Wait! That's impossible!" Because when I take my groups across Spain, I walk 20 -30 kilometers each day and I know how far 180 miles is. 180 miles is 290 kilometers, approximately. That means they would have to walk 73 kilometers per day to have gotten there. I walk 6 to 7 hours to get 20-30 kilometers, depending on the terrain, carrying a lightweight 15 pound pack and it's not easy. This means they'd have to have walked at least 18 hours each day, 3 times that amount, women and children included carrying all their provisions, and sleep only 6 hours. I just don't see how that is possible. Does anyone have any insight on this? It's really a bit difficult for me to wrap my head around. Help? Where is this 180-miles-from-Jerusalem statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeccaKirstyn Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 I think this is the portion they are referring to? From the student study guide for the Book of Mormon Seminary manual. To understand the difficulty of what the Lord commanded, it is helpful to know that the distance from Jerusalem to the Red Sea (the Gulf of Aqaba) is about 180 miles through hot, barren country infested by many thieves. Lehi and his family had traveled three days’ journey beyond this point (see 1 Nephi 2:5–6), and now the Lord was saying his sons were to go back to Jerusalem. Read 1 Nephi 3:7–8, and identify the reason Nephi gave for his willingness to obey the Lord’s command. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 I'm not getting that it took them 3 days to go 180 miles. I'm getting that once they reached the 180 miles, they traveled an additional 3 days. It says "beyond this point." BeccaKirstyn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) I think I understand the source of confusion. And it came to pass that he departed into the wilderness. And he left his house, and the land of his inheritance, and his gold, and his silver, and his precious things, and took nothing with him, save it were his family, and provisions, and tents, and departed into the wilderness. And he came down by the borders near the shore of the Red Sea; and he traveled in the wilderness in the borders which are nearer the Red Sea; and he did travel in the wilderness with his family, which consisted of my mother, Sariah, and my elder brothers, who were Laman, Lemuel, and Sam. And it came to pass that when he had traveled three days in the wilderness, he pitched his tent in a valley by the side of a river of water. The initial "departed into the wilderness" talks about Lehi leaving his house. It sounds like Nephi is saying, "We stepped out of our front door into the wilderness". And this may indeed be the case, since it appears Lehi did not live in Jerusalem proper, but in its outskirts. The "wilderness" just means the unsettled (wild) places, whether forest or desert, so two minutes' walk from Lehi's house may well have been the wilderness. But note the next sentence, which tells how Lehi traveled in the wilderness until "he came down by the borders near the shore of the Red Sea". At this point, Nephi's narrative shifts in saying that "he traveled in the wilderness in the borders which are near the Red Sea." In the next sentence, then, when Nephi talks about after Lehi "had traveled three days in the wilderness", he is not referring to the time from when they left their front door in the land of Jerusalem, but rather from when they had begun traveling "in the wilderness in the borders which are near the Red Sea." That is, the three days refers to their travels on the shore of the Red Sea, and not from the moment they left Jerusalem. Edited October 12, 2015 by Vort BeccaKirstyn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AnnieCarvalho Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Ok. I'm going back to read it again.Thanks for your comments - they really are helping.I'm struggling with my faith.Sometimes I wish I could just be one of those happy people who just take everything on blind faith...it would make life simpler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Ok. I'm going back to read it again.Thanks for your comments - they really are helping.I'm struggling with my faith.Sometimes I wish I could just be one of those happy people who just take everything on blind faith...it would make life simpler. Faith is not blind, Annie. But if you have a perfect knowledge, then you no longer need faith. And we must have faith. Developing faith is an attribute of Godliness, just like charity and justice, and is a primary reason we are in this mortal state. theSQUIDSTER 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AnnieCarvalho Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Thank you all! I went back and read and discovered I was reading it wrong.That is crazy!I must have read that paragraph 10 times - and never caught the bit about them going 3 days PAST that point of 180 miles. Re: Faith and Testimony - I have struggled with it all my adult life and as I grow older, it's becoming more important to me.I am reading the BOM (again - having done it several times) and this time, I'm going slow and using a manual to help me really stop and READ and hopefully regain a testimony. We'll see... Thanks again. Vort, pam and BeccaKirstyn 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Thank you all! I went back and read and discovered I was reading it wrong.That is crazy!I must have read that paragraph 10 times - and never caught the bit about them going 3 days PAST that point of 180 miles. Happens to all of us. That's why this forum is so good-you can bounce ideas off one another. I love the question you asked OP, it's one I've thought about too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latter Days Guy Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Well the missus and I were traveling back from Edinburgh the other day and according to google maps the journey of 120 miles would take 2h 34 minutes by car, 1h 30 minutes by train, 12h 22 minutes by bike and 24h by foot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Sounds like Google thinks you're an ultramarathoner. Latter Days Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeccaKirstyn Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Thank you all! I went back and read and discovered I was reading it wrong.That is crazy!I must have read that paragraph 10 times - and never caught the bit about them going 3 days PAST that point of 180 miles. Re: Faith and Testimony - I have struggled with it all my adult life and as I grow older, it's becoming more important to me.I am reading the BOM (again - having done it several times) and this time, I'm going slow and using a manual to help me really stop and READ and hopefully regain a testimony. We'll see... Thanks again.I think your faith shows a lot in the steps you're taking right now to really engross yourself in The Book of Mormon. Thank you for your example! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) I think I understand the source of confusion. And it came to pass that he departed into the wilderness. And he left his house, and the land of his inheritance, and his gold, and his silver, and his precious things, and took nothing with him, save it were his family, and provisions, and tents, and departed into the wilderness. And he came down by the borders near the shore of the Red Sea; and he traveled in the wilderness in the borders which are nearer the Red Sea; and he did travel in the wilderness with his family, which consisted of my mother, Sariah, and my elder brothers, who were Laman, Lemuel, and Sam. And it came to pass that when he had traveled three days in the wilderness, he pitched his tent in a valley by the side of a river of water. The initial "departed into the wilderness" talks about Lehi leaving his house. It sounds like Nephi is saying, "We stepped out of our front door into the wilderness". And this may indeed be the case, since it appears Lehi did not live in Jerusalem proper, but in its outskirts. The "wilderness" just means the unsettled (wild) places, whether forest or desert, so two minutes' walk from Lehi's house may well have been the wilderness. But note the next sentence, which tells how Lehi traveled in the wilderness until "he came down by the borders near the shore of the Red Sea". At this point, Nephi's narrative shifts in saying that "he traveled in the wilderness in the borders which are near the Red Sea." In the next sentence, then, when Nephi talks about after Lehi "had traveled three days in the wilderness", he is not referring to the time from when they left their front door in the land of Jerusalem, but rather from when they had begun traveling "in the wilderness in the borders which are near the Red Sea." That is, the three days refers to their travels on the shore of the Red Sea, and not from the moment they left Jerusalem. If I may Vort - I would add something to your post. Anciently (as well as in modern times specific to the area near the Red Sea) borders had a very specific meaning. Borders were a king of mountain range that form along a line and in essence divide the land. I believe this is interesting because this kind of particular reference was not common or even known in the Americas when Joseph translated the Book of Mormon. In particular Nephi makes reference to their travels to reach what he calls the borders near the Read Sea. A three day travel into the mountains so identified will bring a traveler to a place Nephi identifies as a valley and a river that runs into the Red Sea. George Potter and Richard Wellington (two LDS individuals from England working in Saudi Arabia) used the Book or Mormon in an attempt to follow the footsteps of Lehi leaving Jerusalem - they document their discoveries in a book they published called "Lehi in the Wilderness". They document that in deed a 3 day's journey into the borders will bring a traveler to a valley through which a river flows year round into the Red Sea. In fact it is the only river that flows year round from the Arabian peninsula into the Red Sea -- Something else that was not know in any geographic reference even available in the USA during Joseph's lifetime. The river changes throughout the year from a dirty river during the runoff season to a river of clear pure water during drier times. Edited October 12, 2015 by Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) I'm struggling with my faith.Sometimes I wish I could just be one of those happy people who just take everything on blind faith...it would make life simpler. Annie, I feel your pain. Faith has been a struggle for me too. I say don't reject this part of yourself, be grateful for it. That might sound odd, but consider this. Deseret book sells a book called The Crucible of Doubt by Terryl and Fiona Givens. Aside from the fact that I love this book and found if very helpful, let's for now just consider the title, The Crucible of Doubt. What is a crucible? The dictionary definition is: a ceramic or metal container in which metals or other substances may be melted or subjected to very high temperatures. Do you remember the imagery from Isaiah where the Lord says He is as a refiner of silver. He is the refiner and we are the metal. Everyone must be refined (the impurities removed). There are different types of crucibles I suppose, but part of ours is doubt. Those doubts though can help you become stronger, refined. They say the silversmith knows the metal is ready when he can see his reflection in it. Keep questioning your doubts until the Savior can see His image in you. Faith is a spiritual gift. When you think of "blind faith" perhaps you are thinking of those who have that gift. Do not begrudge them this, they have other trials, and you have other strengths. Just keep pressing forward as you are, keep striving for faith and questioning your doubts and this crucible can bring you closer to the Lord than you can now imagine. Edited to add: Studying the Book of Mormon has been a huge help with my crucible of doubt too. Keep reading, studying and praying. Edited October 13, 2015 by LiterateParakeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) I've just started studying the BOM again and I've run into a wall. In the Seminary Guide (which is what I'm using) in the section on 1 Nephi 3, it states that Lehi's family had pitched camp after they walked 3 days. Later it says they are about 180 miles from Jerusalem. I'm thinking, "Wait! That's impossible!" Because when I take my groups across Spain, I walk 20 -30 kilometers each day and I know how far 180 miles is. 180 miles is 290 kilometers, approximately. That means they would have to walk 73 kilometers per day to have gotten there. I walk 6 to 7 hours to get 20-30 kilometers, depending on the terrain, carrying a lightweight 15 pound pack and it's not easy. This means they'd have to have walked at least 18 hours each day, 3 times that amount, women and children included carrying all their provisions, and sleep only 6 hours. I just don't see how that is possible. Does anyone have any insight on this? It's really a bit difficult for me to wrap my head around. Help?ok you're getting some events backwards. they traveled to the red sea then they travelled the 3 days (go to first nephi chapter 2). the 180 miles i would guess comes from the distance to the red sea. It doesn't say how long or how far it took nephi to go back to jerusalem (that's chapter 3). Edited October 13, 2015 by Blackmarch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Sometimes I wish I could just be one of those happy people who just take everything on blind faith... No one is this ^ for real. It is a false idea that only exists in the perception of others. Everyone struggles. EVERYONE! Faith is a commitment. A choice. And there is a reason that many of the core principles of the gospel are long-suffering, patience, humility, and meekness. No one can doop-dee-doo their way to the Celestial Kingdom. We work out our salvation with fear and trembling. (Morm. 9:27) Blackmarch, askandanswer and jerome1232 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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