FOS 2015

[Capitalist_Oinker]

Man it's been a hectic couple of months! Between a ward boundary change, six funerals, Elk hunt, Deer hunt, butchering animals, BSA chartering and FOS drives---I feel like a one legged man at a butt kicking party.  Which is why I haven't been around for quite some time. (Not that I believe anyone cared or noticed.) Now that I'm back to work I have some time to get caught up and do some posting  again.

 

Anyways, I thought some of you might be interested in this year's FOS results; and rather than go fishing for an old thread on the subject I'm just going to start a new one.

 

I just turned in $1500 and change this afternoon, which was substantially down from last year. The interesting thing is that we had about a dozen more individual donors than last year. The difference is that virtually all previous donors gave less (in many instances MUCH less) than they did last year. 

For instance, we have a Sister who has given $100 each year for as long as I can remember. This year she gave $25, and she made it abundantly clear that the only reason she was giving ANYTHING is because of her loyalty to the Church and the Brethren.

I heard the same thing from many other loyal donors. They HATE the recent BSA decision regarding homosexual adult leaders, and they weren't the least bit hesitant to tell me how they felt. Out of all those who had donated last year who refused to donate this year, the reason was unanimous (the recent BSA decision). 

I heard similar stories from other ward leaders throughout the Stake. 

 

Based upon my experience this year, one thing is evident---when the Church finally walks away from BSA, the number of Church members who will continue to offer financial support to BSA will be truly negligible. 

 

If anyone else here was involved in your local FOS drive I would be very much interested in hearing about your experience. 

 

[Guest]

...Which is why I haven't been around for quite some time. (Not that I believe anyone cared or noticed.) Now that I'm back to work I have some time to get caught up and do some posting  again.

 

Man, you're out of it for a little while and everyone gets delusions of grandeur.

[Crypto]

I find this sort of information interesting. I'm not at all surprised by this though.

[Guest]

Capitalist!  I wondered where you were... we had some interesting economic discussion recently and I was thinking... where's Capitalist?

[Latter Days Guy]

What is a FOS drive?

[Guest]

Friends of Scouting

[Blackmarch]

Welcome back



... can't say i'm surprised tho. And i fieel similarly that it will only be a matter of time before the church will seperate itself from BSA.

[Vort]

What is a FOS drive?

 

First, a (very) brief overview and description of the Boy Scouts of America:

 

Boy Scouts of America (or BSA, based on Baden-Powell's Boy Scouts, of course) is the organization that oversees US Boy Scouts. The BSA comprises 273 "councils", each of which oversees a particular geographic region of the US. When someone wants to sponsor a Scouting troop, they find a "sponsoring body", which is an organization (typically a church or service organization) that agrees to provide the manpower and do the work. The sponsoring body then applies to their local council for a charter to run a Scout "troop", the actual Scouting group that goes camping and does stuff. That troop, when approved, becomes a part of the local council and is assigned to a "district", which is a smaller region within a council and is typically made of a handful of troops.

 

Most of the "boots-on-the-ground" BSA positions are unpaid volunteer positions, such as Scoutmaster and Scout Committee member. But many of the higher-up positions at the council level, and possibly at the district level (I'm a bit unclear on this point), are professional, paid positions. Those at the national level of BSA are also compensated.

 

The Scouting program has for many generations been used by the LDS Church as an adjunct to (what we today call) the Young Men's program. I believe the Scouting program is also used by the Church in Canada; I assume it is so used in the UK and possibly Australia and New Zealand, but I don't really know. But the LDS Church-sponsored Scouting units form an important part of BSA, about 17% of Scout membership and 34% of Scout troops. From what I can tell, the LDS Church is the largest sponsor of Scouts in the BSA, and by a large margin.

 

If American Latter-day Saints lose confidence and interest in the BSA, that will impact their bottom line. So it's a point of concern to those who support Scouting.

 

EDIT: Redacted statements regarding FOS fund distributions that may be false.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Vort

[james12]

Alright, here is my little Friends of Scouting story. Two years ago donations were down in our stake. Probably because of the information flying around about how much top scout executives made and perhaps because effort was a little low. The councilor in the Stake Presidency over scouting vowed to do things different next year. Well, he did. Instead of having the scouts and scout leaders go out and collect the money, he asked the ward council and their presidencies to go out and collect donations. The wards divided up the houses into small sections of about six to ten and, where possible, the routes were given to a president or councilor who lived in the same area. So, people not involved in scouts at all were to visit their immediate neighbors. The Stake asked that those assigned a route continue to go back until they found someone home and received and donation or were told by neighbors they did not want to donate. There was quite a lot of grumbling and lack of enthusiasm (to say the least). But the houses were visited and the goal was met for the stake. 

 

Last year my wife went around and asked for donations. This year it was me. I visited six houses. Two non-members donated and one member (me). One member flat out told me, "No, We are not donating", I didn't ask why. 

 

I found out last night from an LDS/BSA Relationship meeting where Elder Bourne from the Seventy spoke (along with the Primary General President and the Young Men's General President) that FOS donations were down this year church wide. 

He said to the Stake Presidencies and Bishops that we should do better. One of his main messages to all those in attendance was that we should be "anxiously engaged" and not be as concerned about things on the periphery of the scouting movement.  

[Capitalist_Oinker]

Man, you're out of it for a little while and everyone gets delusions of grandeur.

 

An argument that I'm delusional could certainly be made, but that I have delusions of grandeur---not so much.

[Capitalist_Oinker]

Instead of having the scouts and scout leaders go out and collect the money...

 

I find this interesting. The Church has prohibited scouts from collecting money for a long time. How long had that been going on?

 

...he asked the ward council and their presidencies to go out and collect donations.

 

I've been doing FOS drives for longer than I can remember, and I've done pretty much the same thing. I divide the ward directory up and then assign those connected with scouting (YM presidency and advisors, bishopric second councilor, scoutmaster, and Primary presidency) a certain number of members to call. We also have a list of non-members associated with scouting or who have donated in the past that are included on those lists. 

 

I found out last night from an LDS/BSA Relationship meeting where Elder Bourne from the Seventy spoke (along with the Primary General President and the Young Men's General President) that FOS donations were down this year church wide. 

 

It would appear from the above that my experience wasn't an anomaly. I appreciate the info.

 

One of his main messages to all those in attendance was that we should be "anxiously engaged" and not be as concerned about things on the periphery of the scouting movement.  

 

I don't see how the the recent decision regarding homosexual leaders can be described as the "periphery" of scouting, but whatever. The fact of the matter is, the vast majority of members are very unhappy with it, and I had a large pile of very skimpy checks to prove it. Based on what I saw, the average donation this year was half what it was last year.

It will be interesting to see if that changes in 2016. Most of us have short memories. 

[Capitalist_Oinker]

Capitalist!  I wondered where you were... we had some interesting economic discussion recently and I was thinking... where's Capitalist?

 

I'm sorry I missed  it.

My life is always getting in my way. 

[james12]

I find this interesting. The Church has prohibited scouts from collecting money for a long time. How long had that been going on?

Just a few years ago we were sending an adult leader with a boy scout to collect FOS donations. Is there something against this? I can't imagine it would be a concern.

 

I don't see how the the recent decision regarding homosexual leaders can be described as the "periphery" of scouting, but whatever. The fact of the matter is, the vast majority of members are very unhappy with it, and I had a large pile of very skimpy checks to prove it. Based on what I saw, the average donation this year was half what it was last year.

It will be interesting to see if that changes in 2016. Most of us have short memories.

I did'nt make the statement, but I think I understand it. The fact is, very few scouts in LDS units are affected by the issue of homosexual leaders. Despite all the complaints on this board and others, it simply does not have a very deep impact or broad application to YM in LDS units. But they certainly are affected by the serious lack of engagement by their parents and leaders.

[Just_A_Guy]

Our council recently released a blog post explaining that FOS really does go to the boys (honest!) because the high-paying scouting jobs are funded out of a perpetual endowment. (http://blog.utahscouts.org/finance/friends-of-scouting-local-donations-stay-local/)

Which, of course, begs the question of how many millions of dollars the BSA is just sitting on so that it can use the interest to pay local management hundreds of thousands of dollars per annum . . . And fails to resolve the question of why *any* would-be BSA donor who makes less than those fat cats in Irving should donate any of their hard-earned cash to the BSA when the national and local leadership so clearly can't be bothered to reduce their own living standard for the good of the organization.

Just another reason to wear the white feather . . .

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I did'nt make the statement, but I think I understand it. The fact is, very few scouts in LDS units are affected by the issue of homosexual leaders. Despite all the complaints on this board and others, it simply does not have a very deep impact or broad application to YM in LDS units. But they certainly are affected by the serious lack of engagement by their parents and leaders.

 

Thanks for this, James.  I was confused by that statement too, but it makes more sense to me now.  I agree with you.

[Backroads]

I made 10.50 an hour working for the BSA. The new folks who came in on a salary to be district executive were making far less than a new teacher salary. The old guys were making an obscene amount of money... but I also figured they were well into their careers so, hey. Much of the money came from a host of sources. The camp I worked at for a number of summers was considered the money maker to fund the other camps in the council. I don't know where much of that FOS money went, to be honest.

But... some did go to paychecks.

[The Folk Prophet]

Man, you're out of it for a little while and everyone gets delusions of grandeur.

Wait...are you saying that cap oinker is a Jedi now?

[The Folk Prophet]

Interesting. My only story is that I donated significantly less this year and only donated at all out of loyalty to the church.

Now I'm wondering if I should feel guilty about that.

[Vort]

Our council recently released a blog post explaining that FOS really does go to the boys (honest!) because the high-paying scouting jobs are funded out of a perpetual endowment. (http://blog.utahscouts.org/finance/friends-of-scouting-local-donations-stay-local/)

Which, of course, begs the question of how many millions of dollars the BSA is just sitting on so that it can use the interest to pay local management hundreds of thousands of dollars per annum . . . And fails to resolve the question of why *any* would-be BSA donor who makes less than those fat cats in Irving should donate any of their hard-earned cash to the BSA when the national and local leadership so clearly can't be bothered to reduce their own living standard for the good of the organization.

Just another reason to wear the white feather . . .

 

Interesting. As Scoutmaster, I asked explicitly about where FOS funding went, and was told something quite different. Given the finality of the statements in this link, I am leaning toward believing it. I will have to go do some digging.

[kapikui]

I'll probably donate to FOS this year, but when I get asked, I'm going to tell my Bishop that I'm not going to be involved. First off some background.  None of the money for FOS goes to national.  It stays in the council and does things like maintain scout camps and the like. National on the other hand gets a great deal of money.  That money comes not from donations, but from registration fees.  With in LDS Scouts, that is handled with a single check signed by President Monson. It's a BIG check.

 

So if the Prophet feels that Scouting is important enough to give that much money to the thoroughly messed up national scouts, and FOS goes to my local council that is about 98% LDS and was rather vocally against the homosexual decision, why will I not be involved? Because I don't want the grief. Sorry, but I'm not going to take the abuse that I'm sure will happen. I have about 8 scouting jobs already, someone else can take that grief.  While it's unfortunate to put the council in the middle like that, perhaps the councils can put pressure back on national to fix something. 

 

That's all I'm going to say about national at the moment, as if I allow myself to get worked up...  Let's just say it would be bad. 

[Capitalist_Oinker]

I did'nt make the statement, but I think I understand it. The fact is, very few scouts in LDS units are affected by the issue of homosexual leaders. Despite all the complaints on this board and others, it simply does not have a very deep impact or broad application to YM in LDS units. But they certainly are affected by the serious lack of engagement by their parents and leaders.

 

I understood it wasn't your statement, but rather Elder Bournes. I'm not one to often disagree with General Authorities, but I certainly do in this instance. 

I say again that I don't understand how on earth the decision to allow homosexual leaders can be considered the "periphery" of scouting? The decision makes a mockery of the Scout Oath, which is the very foundation of Scouting!

LDS young men are not so stupid that they don't understand that the Scout Oath has essentially been neutered. I have had numerous conversations with the youth in my ward since the decision and they DO understand the ramifications of the decision. As one of them said to me:

"so we can now have a scoutmaster and an assistant scoutmaster in a gay relationship, and they can both stand and recite the Scout Oath and pledge to be "morally straight", and BSA now sees nothing wrong with that??? Man, that is messed up!!"

 

Yes, that is messed up. 

But that's where we're at, and Elder Bourne's opinion notwithstanding, it AIN'T the "periphery" of scouting.

[Capitalist_Oinker]

Wait...are you saying that cap oinker is a Jedi now?

 

Donate or donate not; there is no "why". 

[Capitalist_Oinker]

Interesting. My only story is that I donated significantly less this year and only donated at all out of loyalty to the church.

Now I'm wondering if I should feel guilty about that.

 

My sentiments precisely, and if I SHOULD feel guilty about it I wonder why I don't? 

[mirkwood]

Our stake is down about 50%.  I stopped donating to FOS about 5 years ago.  I make donations directly to our ward troop.

[The Folk Prophet]

My sentiments precisely, and if I SHOULD feel guilty about it I wonder why I don't? 

 

Heh. I feel guilty about everything. So....