is being overweight a sin?

[Traveler]

I realize that there are some sins that are more spiritual damaging than others.  I do not ask this question to argue over what may be a much worse sin.  It is my understanding that if we know that something is good and we do not do it - that it is a sin (James 4:17).  Is it good to maintain a healthy body by keeping our weight disciplined and under control by covenant?  Should striving for one's ideal weight be inclusive in our personal covenant with G-d - or should it not be?

 

The Traveler

[omegaseamaster75]

12 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I realize that there are some sins that are more spiritual damaging than others.  I do not ask this question to argue over what may be a much worse sin.  It is my understanding that if we know that something is good and we do not do it - that it is a sin (James 4:17).  Is it good to maintain a healthy body by keeping our weight disciplined and under control by covenant?  Should striving for one's ideal weight be inclusive in our personal covenant with G-d - or should it not be?

 

The Traveler

The short answer is yes, that said having a few extra lbs comes with age and sedentary lifestyle. Being obese I think is the sin. With a broad brush I will put obesity in the same category as alcoholism, and porn addiction.  

 

Excepting of course medical conditions.

Edited March 3, 2016 by omegaseamaster75

[Guest]

I know you've started this discussion before, Traveler. Do you have a Google notification or something set up so that you can remember periodically to bring it up again?

[Guest]

Traveler,

There's the question you asked and the question you intended.  The question asked in the title is answered with a "No".  The question you asked in the OP (which I take it you intended) is "Is it a sin to not take care of one's body and strive for our ideal weight?"  That's a longer answer.

First, what is "ideal weight?"

How much time and energy would it take to be considered "striving" for it?

How much do we need to "take care of" our bodies?

Lots of definitions are required to answer these questions.  This is why things like caffeine will never truly be settled.  You can talk about the harmful effects.  But if I listened to everyone's opinion on what was harmful, I'd starve.  That is why we each need to make a judgment with the Lord's help on what is good for us.

In the end, I'd say that the only sin in this regard is to abandon all care for the subject and be a true glutton.  Even then, how big a sin is it?  Who knows?

Edited March 3, 2016 by Guest

[unixknight]

30 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

The short answer is yes, that said having a few extra lbs comes with age and sedentary lifestyle. Being obese I think is the sin. With a broad brush I will put obesity in the same category as alcoholism, and porn addiction. 

Always fun to be judged by people who haven't been there.

(I'm assuming that because I find it hard to imagine someone going through the struggles associated with obesity and then saying something like this.)

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I'm overweight as a protection. No matter how I try, I cannot, so far, convince my subconscious that it would be safe to be thin. After all....do a Google search...who gets raped? Young women, old women and every age in between.Think how you dress matters? Nuns have been raped.

And who are the rapists? This is important perhaps you could avoid them? But no. Rapists can be fathers, brothers, grandfathers, uncles, boyfriends, neighbors...even police officers, Catholic Bishops, Scout Leaders (boys aren't safe either), boyfriends, husbands and strangers.

You know who doesn't appear to get raped? Women or men, girls or boys who are overweight.

I'll be happy to lose the weight as soon as someone can help me feel SAFE. Any takers? It won't be easy. I've  been raped (more than once), I know lots of women who have been raped, and I once babysat for a woman who was raped after she left me with her child. So good luck convincing me that this world is a safe place.  

I'm not upset, I'm just being very blunt for you. I'm doing my part to overcome this "sin". I'm in therapy. But still just last night I had not one but two dreams of rape.  I can't wait for someone to help me stop sinning...please do. Maybe you could make the nightmares stop too. Thanks in advance.

Edited March 3, 2016 by LiterateParakeet

[Guest MormonGator]

21 minutes ago, unixknight said:

Always fun to be judged by people who haven't been there.

(I'm assuming that because I find it hard to imagine someone going through the struggles associated with obesity and then saying something like this.)

 

18 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

  I can't wait for someone to help me stop sinning...please do. Maybe you could make the nightmares stop too. Thanks in advance.

Both of you are so right. Being overweight a sin? Of course it isn't. We aren't the Taliban here. Not everything is sinful. I apologize if that came out harsh, it's not my intention at all. 

I should mention I'm barely 5'08 and maybe 165 pound soaking wet. Is being too thin a sin? 

Edited March 3, 2016 by MormonGator

[unixknight]

Gluttony, I would agree, is a sin... But to assume that being obese = sinful because only gluttons become obese is intellectually lazy.

[Guest MormonGator]

7 minutes ago, unixknight said:

Gluttony, I would agree, is a sin... But to assume that being obese = sinful because only gluttons become obese is intellectually lazy.

Exactly. Gluttony IS sinful, totally agree. But being overweight isn't always the result of gluttony.  

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I should mention I'm barely 5'08 and maybe 165 pound soaking wet. Is being too thin a sin? 

I wonder what you mean by "too thin".  I'm 5'7" and my ideal weight would be about 160.  I'm currently 180.  So I'm trying to lose.  You at 165 seem about right in my book.  And I've seen pictures of you, remember?  I wouldn't call you underweight or overweight.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Guest

[Guest MormonGator]

9 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I wonder what you mean by "too thin".  I'm 5'7" and my ideal weight would be about 160.  I'm currently 180.  So I'm trying to lose.  You at 165 seem about right in my book.  And I've seen pictures of you, remember?  I wouldn't call you underweight or overweight.

Appreciate that. I was the kid who weighed 88 pounds when he graduated high school, so I've always been quite small. In fact, so small that people wrongly accused me of having an eating disorder! 

To make it even more interesting a close friend has always struggled with her weight, so I know both sides of the perspective a bit. 
 

Edited March 3, 2016 by MormonGator

[Guest]

Well, you got me beat.  I was always the smallest kid in the class.  I was 5'-7" at 122 lbs throughout my last two years of high school and into my mission.  It was the last six months in Spanish speaking homes that fattened me up to a gluttonous 135 lbs.

[unixknight]

I think the "ideal weight" standard is oversimplified and doesn't take into account factors that may affect a person's healthiest weight, such as muscle mass, build, etc.  I have the same criticism of the BMI system.  My "ideal weight" for my height is something like 220, and I can tell you even if I didn't have an ounce of fat on my body I would still be significantly above that from my muscles alone.  (Can you deadlift a manual transmission over your head and slide it onto an engine flywheel without any equipment to help?)  The next time my body weighs 220 lbs will be about 7 minutes into my cremation process. 

That said, I have a LOT of weight to lose, and I don't consider myself to be particularly gluttonous.  If you want some interesting reading, check out a book called Why We Get Fat and What To Do About It

It's interesting, because it goes into a lot of detail about how your body processes energy differently depending on whether it's coming from fat, protein or carbs, how it's stored in your fat cells, how your body uses stored energy, how yuor muscles use it, the role insulin plays, etc.  It explains why poorer classes of people are disproportionally more likely to become obese, because of the low quality of cheap food being so heavily loaded with carbohydrates.

 

Edited March 3, 2016 by unixknight

[omegaseamaster75]

27 minutes ago, unixknight said:

Always fun to be judged by people who haven't been there.

(I'm assuming that because I find it hard to imagine someone going through the struggles associated with obesity and then saying something like this.)

You know what happens when you assume....

For the record I said Obesity was the sin not carrying around a few extra lbs.  In response to Literate Parakeet I also said medical conditions excepted. Her condition/ issues (I hate to use that word) fall into this category and therefore falls outside of the realm of sin in this instance

[unixknight]

8 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

You know what happens when you assume....

For the record I said Obesity was the sin not carrying around a few extra lbs.  In response to Literate Parakeet I also said medical conditions excepted. Her condition/ issues (I hate to use that word) fall into this category and therefore falls outside of the realm of sin in this instance

I know what you said, and that's exactly what I responded to.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

10 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

 In fact, so small that people wrongly accused me of having an eating disorder! 
 

My sister gets that too. She has four grown kids and still wears about a size 4. She always has.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

My sister gets that too. She has four grown kids and still wears about a size 4. She always has.

That brings up a good point. I had a friend years ago that was a size 0, and even then had to have dresses taken in sometimes. But she could put away a whole large pizza in one sitting. Is that cool, because she wasn't fat? Or was I more at risk of damnation for eating 2 pieces and still being a little over the ideal BMI?

[omegaseamaster75]

11 minutes ago, unixknight said:

I think the "ideal weight" standard is oversimplified and doesn't take into account factors that may affect a person's healthiest weight, such as muscle mass, build, etc.  I have the same criticism of the BMI system.  My "ideal weight" for my height is something like 220, and I can tell you even if I didn't have an ounce of fat on my body I would still be significantly above that from my muscles alone.  (Can you deadlift a manual transmission over your head and slide it onto an engine flywheel without any equipment to help?)  The next time my body weighs 220 lbs will be about 7 minutes into my cremation process. 

That said, I have a LOT of weight to lose, and I don't consider myself to be particularly gluttonous.  If you want some interesting reading, check out a book called Why We Get Fat and What To Do About It

It's interesting, because it goes into a lot of detail about how your body processes energy differently depending on whether it's coming from fat, protein or carbs, how it's stored in your fat cells, how your body uses stored energy, how yuor muscles use it, the role insulin plays, etc.  It explains why poorer classes of people are disproportionally more likely to become obese, because of the low quality of cheap food being so heavily loaded with carbohydrates.

 

Look we can argue semantics about what is the ideal body type and weight for each body type. That is not the purpose of this thread. 

the OP said  "Is it good to maintain a healthy body by keeping our weight disciplined and under control by covenant?  Should striving for one's ideal weight be inclusive in our personal covenant with G-d - or should it not be?"

1. Healthy body

2. Discipline

3. One's ideal weight. Your ideal weight clearly does not fall into traditional metrics and this is fine, bodies come in all shapes and sizes and muscle is denser than fat. By your own admission you have "a LOT of weight to lose" I am not judging you I don't think that anyone is. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I am not judging you I don't think that anyone is. 

I think there was plenty of judgment, from the outset of this thread (and others on the same topic).

 

If the question is whether we're breaking our covenants by not striving for the "ideal" body weight and size, my question is: which covenant would that be? The covenants I remember making:

*Mourn with those that mourn

*Comfort those who stand in need of comfort

*Take Jesus' name upon me

*Follow Him and His teachings

*Be faithful to my husband

*Give my time and talents to build up the Kingdom of God

 

[unixknight]

17 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Look we can argue semantics about what is the ideal body type and weight for each body type. That is not the purpose of this thread. 

the OP said  "Is it good to maintain a healthy body by keeping our weight disciplined and under control by covenant?  Should striving for one's ideal weight be inclusive in our personal covenant with G-d - or should it not be?"

1. Healthy body

2. Discipline

3. One's ideal weight. Your ideal weight clearly does not fall into traditional metrics and this is fine, bodies come in all shapes and sizes and muscle is denser than fat. By your own admission you have "a LOT of weight to lose" I am not judging you I don't think that anyone is. 

Ah, but you are, and you have.  These are your own words:

"Being obese I think is the sin. With a broad brush I will put obesity in the same category as alcoholism, and porn addiction."

So unless my weight can be explained by some sort of medical or emotional factor, I'm sinning and in the same category as an alcoholic or a porn addict, according to what you've said.  Nevermind how much I actually eat, or the type of food I eat, or my activity level.  I'm fat and therefore sinning because of it.  This is what you said.  With absolutely no other data of any kind about a person, you're prepared to categorize them as an addict, and a sinful one at that. 

To be clear, the discussion about BMI and such was separate from my issue with what you said.

Now, I think everybody can agree that our body is a temple and as such we should be good stewards of it and take care of it.  That's the entire point of the Word of Wisdom.  That said, it doesn't give any of us the right to decide that a person who struggles with that is a sinner.  That's unfair, it's presumptuous, and it's intellectually lazy. 

Full disclosure, since I brought up my own weight earlier.  This is me testing my shoes/stilts for my Space Marine Power Armor build.

Edited March 3, 2016 by unixknight

[Guest]

@unixknight

I LOVE IT!!!

[Guest MormonGator]

7 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

@unixknight

I LOVE IT!!!

Ditto! 

[Guest]

Boys and their toys.

[unixknight]

7 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Boys and their toys.

Not to sidetrack, but here's the build thread of the progress on that project.  I've taken a pause while I recharge my funds for the project, but the goal is to complete it by this Summer for a convention in Washington, DC.  I need to trim down around the waist a bit to avoid having to adjust the armor itself.

[Guest]

I have nothing to say...  you should see the collection of random things my husband has to make scenery for his Warhammer 40k table. (Expensive toys!)