Tesla Unveils the Model 3 Electric Car for $35,000

[Still_Small_Voice]

HAWTHORNE, California — It’s the car thousands of people were waiting for: Tesla Motors’ new, lower-priced Model 3 sedan.

Tesla unveiled the Model 3 on Thursday night at its Los Angeles design studio. It doesn’t go on sale until late 2017, but in the first 24 hours that order banks were open, Tesla said it had more than 115,000 reservations. Long lines at Tesla stores, reminiscent of the crowds at Apple stores for early models of the iPhone, were reported from Hong Kong to Austin, Texas, to Washington, D.C. Buyers put down a $1,000 deposit to reserve the car.

At a starting price of $35,000 — before federal and state government incentives — the Model 3 is less than half the cost of Tesla’s previous models. Tesla Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk says the car will go at least 215 miles when fully charged, about double what drivers get from current competitors in its price range, such as the Nissan Leaf and BMW i3.

Read more and watch the video at:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/04/01/tesla-motors-unveils-the-model-3-to-the-world-here-are-all-the-details/#comment-11130066

[Still_Small_Voice]

$35,000 is still out of my price range for a car.  I doubt the real life highway range on the Tesla Model 3 will be about 215 miles.  It will probably more around 180 miles which is still really good for most people's daily needs.  I will have to wait for the used electric car I can get for $14,000 and under and gets at least 110 miles in range.  My wife and I just bought a 2015 Mitsubishi Mirage with less than 200 miles on the odometer for $11,200 before taxes.  It gets around 42 miles gallon. 

I like electric cars but just cannot afford them presently.  A big thumbs up to Tesla for putting out a quality product.  The car will be released to buyers at the end of 2017.

[Guest]

Battery technology seems to come up with something fairly revolutionary every 10 to 15 years.  At this rate, my great-grandchildren will have 1000 mile battery life that fits into a space as small as today's standard car battery and it will cost about the same.

[Still_Small_Voice]

I will likely always have a gasoline car for longer trips, but my daily driving needs could be fulfilled with a 110 mile electric car.  I would just drive my electric most of the time and save the costs on gasoline.  I am looking forward to much less oil filter, air filter, oil changes and very few trips to a gasoline service station.

I see people driving electrics all over in Utah.  Probably about one in 100 cars on the highway are electric cars in Utah now.  I think battery electric cars are here to stay along with gasoline cars.  Electric cars will likely be about ten to fifteen percent of vehicles on the road within about fifteen years.

Tesla already has 115,000 orders for the Tesla Model 3 and Nissan has sold over 170,000 of their battery electric cars already worldwide.

[Ironhold]

Given that I'm having to haul heavy cargo for good distances (30 miles plus) in all sorts of weather and terrain conditions, there's not an existing 100% electric model that would serve my needs. 

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Ironhold said:

Given that I'm having to haul heavy cargo for good distances (30 miles plus) in all sorts of weather and terrain conditions, there's not an existing 100% electric model that would serve my needs. 

No, 30 miles is nothing.  They could create one with current technology, but the market for one isn't big enough for them to do so (yet).

[NightSG]

Heck, I've been wanting to go to an e-bike so I can still get a workout but not kill my knees on the hills around here, but even a low-end conversion kit for my Trek with a 5-10 mile range is as much as a beater Honda Accord by the time you figure in the battery.

[Blackmarch]

On 4/2/2016 at 3:05 PM, Still_Small_Voice said:

HAWTHORNE, California — It’s the car thousands of people were waiting for: Tesla Motors’ new, lower-priced Model 3 sedan.

Tesla unveiled the Model 3 on Thursday night at its Los Angeles design studio. It doesn’t go on sale until late 2017, but in the first 24 hours that order banks were open, Tesla said it had more than 115,000 reservations. Long lines at Tesla stores, reminiscent of the crowds at Apple stores for early models of the iPhone, were reported from Hong Kong to Austin, Texas, to Washington, D.C. Buyers put down a $1,000 deposit to reserve the car.

At a starting price of $35,000 — before federal and state government incentives — the Model 3 is less than half the cost of Tesla’s previous models. Tesla Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk says the car will go at least 215 miles when fully charged, about double what drivers get from current competitors in its price range, such as the Nissan Leaf and BMW i3.

Read more and watch the video at:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/04/01/tesla-motors-unveils-the-model-3-to-the-world-here-are-all-the-details/#comment-11130066

I'd be happy to take one if anyone is willing to gift one to me ^.^

[Still_Small_Voice]

13 hours ago, Blackmarch said:

I'd be happy to take one if anyone is willing to gift one to me ^.^

 

I hear you there with a Tesla Model 3.  I would love to have someone give one of these cars to me.  They are very nice.  I have test drove two electric cars already and I loved the experience.

Thou shalt not covet.  Very hard to not do with a Tesla car.

[Still_Small_Voice]

Tesla now has over 300,000 pre-orders for their Model 3 electric car.  Likely if you can afford one you will wait over four years for a car if you ordered now.

[Echo2002]

$35,000 is still not affordable for most Americans. I'm waiting for the elio, haha

[mordorbund]

On 5/1/2016 at 10:17 AM, Echo2002 said:

$35,000 is still not affordable for most Americans. I'm waiting for the elio, haha

What if we tell most Americans that they don't have to start payments for 4 years?

[tesuji]

I'm excited to have a green car some day. Either an EV, or maybe fuel cell will be better. I'll wait until I'm in the market again and see what the best options are at that point (fuel cell stations are very scarce currently).

35K is more than I have so far ever spent on a car. But it's within the average range for what people spend, especially if you get a tax credit, and if you factor in lower fuel and maintenance cost of an EV. I see a lot of expensive cars on the road - luxury cars, big SUVs etc. Those are 35K or more. Most people I think buy on credit anyway so maybe the sticker price isn't something they think about - I don't know.

Of course the problem with EVs, beside the range, is that you likely still get your electricity to charge it from coal. Hopefully, the grid will get greener over time.

But at the very least, in a big city, you are more likely transferring the pollution out into the rural areas. The Utah Wasatch Front air, for example, would be a lot cleaner if everyone had EVs. (I assume most of the power plants are outside the valleys - please tell me they are :} 

[anatess2]

Maybe Bernie Sanders will rally for free Teslas for everybody.

[NeuroTypical]

Heh.  "Green car".   Here's where the electricity will come from to power your battery, and here's where they get the lithium for said battery.

Edited May 2, 2016 by NeuroTypical

[tesuji]

3 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Heh.  "Green car".  

Here's where they got the lithium for the battery:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/deserts/minerals/open_pit.gif

The electricity used to charge your green car will come from here:
http://www.steamenginerevolution.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Coal-Fired-Power-Plant_in-USA_Kentucky.jpg

Unless you're lucky enough to get it from here:
https://www.firstenergycorp.com/content/fecorp/about/generation_system/FENOC/beaver_valley/_jcr_content/mainpar/image.img.jpg/1424797011356.jpg

LOL, point taken.

I've also read that it takes enormous amounts of energy to manufacture a car in the first place. For a gasoline car, it takes more energy to make the car than you will ever burn by driving it. EVs I'm sure take about the same energy.

So the greenest thing you can do is drive your old car as long as possible.

Or bike  

[NeuroTypical]

Well, the greenest thing you can do, is remove yourself from the planet.  That way, you stop consuming, and you won't spawn any more resource-gobblers.

It really is the logical extension of the whole movement.  Every few years I hear about more and more folks moving to the logical extension and talk about eugenics, population reduction, etc.

I think you meant to say "well, if you manage to reduce your current footprint, that's the real goal of the green movement".  From that perspective, the model 3 would be a good choice for many (including me).  But then I wouldn't be able to help people move in Elder's quorum.

[tesuji]

I'm trying to avoid politics in this forum, but I'll just say that I think the Lord wants us to be wise stewards of the earth. And use wisdom, knowledge and common sense in all things, while we try to live the gospel.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I think you meant to say "well, if you manage to reduce your current footprint, that's the real goal of the green movement".  From that perspective, the model 3 would be a good choice for many (including me).  But then I wouldn't be able to help people move in Elder's quorum.

The age old dichotomy:  Be green or help someone move...

So, is the pizza also green?

Edited May 2, 2016 by Guest

[Still_Small_Voice]

Taking all the green politics out of it, battery electric cars are good.  It allows for competition against gasoline internal combustion engine cars.  Oil companies have had a monopoly on cars for far too long.  

Battery electric cars are about 60 percent efficient at turning energy into motion.  Gasoline cars are about 15 to 20 percent efficient, but gasoline cars have the advantage of quick refuels.  I plan on owning an electric car for my everyday trips in the future but a gasoline car for my long travels.

If I can get a 2014 BMW i3 electric with a 60 mile gasoline range extender in it for less than $12,000 in about five years I can have about a 70 mile per gallon car.

Edit: After looking into the cost on BMW replacement parts I will never own a BMW.  Parts are probably marked up about 35 times what the actual manufacturing costs are.  The cost to repair a BMW i3 electric charging port from what I read is $2,000!!  No thanks BMW.  Now I am looking more into at a future Nissan electric car that gets about 109 miles on a full battery charge.  Hopefully that is the 2017 Nissan Leaf model.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Still_Small_Voice

[jerome1232]

For me the killer on electrics is that recharge time. It's horrendous. I (opinion) think we need battery tech better than Li-Ion to make electric mainstream. 

For some reason I have a romance with the idea of flywheels. I understand there are some physics issues with flywheels in a vehicle that turns and accelerate/decelerates quickly... they resist turning and they float on magnetic bearings, if they bump against stuff they will quite literally disintegrate and throw shrapnel everywhere. Supposedly it's possible to isolate the flywheels and overcome those issues.

But hey they have a very quick recharge time, they pump out tremendous amounts of power very quickly, and they are very efficient with energy transfer.

Edited May 4, 2016 by jerome1232

[LeSellers]

12 hours ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

Battery electric cars are about 60 percent efficient at turning energy into motion.  Gasoline cars are about 15 to 20 percent efficient,

You're measuring efficiency from the wrong starting point.

Which energy gets converted into motion? In your scenario, it's the electrical energy in the battery, but that battery doesn't charge itself. The conversion of fossil fuel into motion (through the battery storage, and even earlier through the battery charging system, and even earlier through the transmission system, etc.) is far less than 60%. It may be more efficient than gasoline/diesel engines to have a battery/electric car, but that has yet to be shown definitively.

Gasoline is more effective (not the same as efficiency) than electric because acceleration and range and recharge/refuel and a host of other reasons all favor gasoline.

Electric cars may have a future, but it's not 2050, it's 2016.

Lehi

Edited May 4, 2016 by LeSellers

[Guest]

@Still_Small_Voice @jerome1232 @LeSellers

Here is the math.  Your results may vary:

• Tesla's power efficiency = .347 kWh / mile. (this is the already existing model.  I couldn't find anything on the new one).
• My Honda Accord with combo city/hwy mileage = 28 mpg.
• 1 Gal of gas = $1.80
• 1 kWh = about 10 cents.

At that rate, I'd have to have 51 mpg (+/-) from my gasoline powered car to match the monetary efficiency of the electric.  BUT

We have to consider if that alone is a cost justification.

• Cost of an equivalent Accord = $23k. ($7k advantage to gasoline) -- I had heard they were $30k, not $35k.  But you can adjust the math yourself.
• Gasoline maintenance: Oil changes, batteries, other regular maintenance = $250/yr
• Electric maintenance: Battery replacements/refurbishing = $1000 every four years -- this is roughly equal, but will be in gasoline's favor if a hybrid.  And does the electric have a transmission?  There are some things that will still need to be done to some of the mechanical parts as regular maintenance depending on how the Tesla actually works.

So, we need to see if the fuel cost (a difference of about 30 cents per mile) will make up for the $7k initial cost disparity.

$7000/$0.3per mile = 23333 miles.  So, it looks like it will take about two years or less to pay for itself.

If you buy a used car for $5000, then the disparity is greater.

$25000/$0.3per mile = 83333 miles.  It will take about seven years to pay for itself.  Are you going to keep your car for that long?  Most people keep their car for about five years.

In about four or five years, we're going to see some Teslas that are being sold used because their battery efficiency has degraded to the point where they no longer want them.  Then you can get them used for cheap, refurbish the batteries and make out like a bandit.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2016 by Guest

[NeuroTypical]

10 hours ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

Taking all the green politics out of it, battery electric cars are good.  It allows for competition against gasoline internal combustion engine cars.  Oil companies have had a monopoly on cars for far too long.  

Battery electric cars are about 60 percent efficient at turning energy into motion.  Gasoline cars are about 15 to 20 percent efficient

I suppose you're right - Oil companies have had a monopoly for too long.  But LeSellers is also right - all electric cars do, is get the oil industry to share power with coal and nuclear.  

The second question is how efficient the battery is at turning energy into motion.  The first question is how efficient the coal power plant is at turning coal into electricity.  Gotta add them both together.

 

Carb's math is more important than both of them, because it will determine if people will buy the thing or not, regardless of what is more efficient.  My buddy who has placed his order already points out that the Model 3 comes with free battery replacement for the life of the car.  As I search the internet, I can't find any confirmation of that claim.  I wonder if my buddy will be surprised with an $11,000 surprise 4-8 years into owning the vehicle?

Edited May 4, 2016 by NeuroTypical

[LeSellers]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

add them both together.

Efficiency isn't an additive thing, it's a multiplication problem.

If the car turns electric power into motion at 60% efficiency*, and the coal-to-battery efficiency is 30%*, then the coal-to-motion efficiency is .30 x .60 = 18%. 
* Numbers not verified, and no way to generalize well enough to make a statement anyway.

Lehi

Edited May 4, 2016 by LeSellers