Guest MormonGator Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 9 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said: NeuroTypical is right. It's Trump or Hillary. One temptation is just to vote down ticket, and abstain from the presidential vote. Yes, it's a vote for HRC--but only one. Two issues with this line of thinking: People really did give up their lives so you can vote. It's incredibly insulting to them to abstain from it-even if you vote for everyone else. You have no right to complain about the outcome if you don't vote, even if it's "just one vote" A radical pro-lifer I know demands that it's "all or nothing, no compromise". She is so radical she'll refuse to vote for any pro-lifer unless they 100% are pro-life. She's been doing that since Roe V Wade. By doing that, she's given elections to pro-choicers. She simply can't understand how modern politics works, so she washes her hands and looks down on all us dirty people who understand that standing for your principals means nothing if you lose. Same thing with NeverTrumpers. Quote
Guest MormonGator Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said: Notice he didn't say "Don't blame me, I didn't vote" Quote
Guest MormonGator Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, Eowyn said: Best Simpsons episode ever. Blasphemy! We all know the best Simpsons ever was their parody of Cape Fear! Quote
Vort Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 All the best Simpson episodes are "Treehouse of Horrors"es. Though Sideshow Bob doing HMS Pinafore ranks pretty high. NeuroTypical, mirkwood and unixknight 3 Quote
Guest Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Blasphemy! We all know the best Simpsons ever was their parody of Cape Fear! Maybe if I'd seen Cape Fear... or watched The Simpsons in the last 10 years. 2 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Quote
Guest MormonGator Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 Just now, Eowyn said: Maybe if I'd seen Cape Fear... or watched The Simpsons in the last 10 years. The Cape Fear episode aired in 1993, dear. Quote
Guest Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 4 minutes ago, MormonGator said: The Cape Fear episode aired in 1993, dear. By my recollection, that was about 9 years ago. Quote
tesuji Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 Kasich just dropped out too http://www.npr.org/2016/05/04/476074761/kasich-dropping-out-of-presidential-race Quote
Guest MormonGator Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 1 minute ago, tesuji said: Kasich just dropped out too http://www.npr.org/2016/05/04/476074761/kasich-dropping-out-of-presidential-race "Democrats want to fall in love. Republicans just fall in line."-Bill Clinton. Quote
tesuji Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, tesuji said: Kasich just dropped out too http://www.npr.org/2016/05/04/476074761/kasich-dropping-out-of-presidential-race Kasich was amazingly moderate for a Republican in 2016. He would have given Clinton a real contest. Republicans are nuts to have chosen Trump instead. Edited May 4, 2016 by tesuji Quote
prisonchaplain Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 38 minutes ago, MormonGator said: People really did give up their lives so you can vote. It's incredibly insulting to them to abstain from it-even if you vote for everyone else. I would have said the same thing in '08 and '12. However, if I were to abstain, that would be my vote. I'd be saying that as much as I despise HRC, Trump has not earned my vote. Neither of them have. I researched the third-party candidates, and none of them did either. Could I avoid your wrath, on a technicality, if I wrote in Rubio or Bush? You have no right to complain about the outcome if you don't vote, even if it's "just one vote" What I meant by the "one vote" quip was that if I abstained I'd be denying Trump one vote. If I am so disgusted by Trump that I actually vote for HRC I would double the effect (2 votes). I'm definitely not a cynic who says my vote doesn't matter. Quote
Guest MormonGator Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said: If you abstain and not vote, that isn't the same as voting. In no way, shape or form. It's not wrath. It's disappointment. Quote
anatess2 Posted May 4, 2016 Author Report Posted May 4, 2016 10 minutes ago, tesuji said: Kasich was amazingly moderate for a Republican in 2016. He would have given Clinton a real contest. Republicans are nuts to have chosen Trump instead. If you haven't noticed... this election cycle is about going with political "outsiders". Kasich is as inside as Jeb. Now, as far as Kasich being moderate, he is to the left of Trump's policies on the campaign, Trump is to the left of Cruz. So, Republicans still want things to stay to the right. Rightly so. In any case, you're right Kasich would become President if he was the one facing Hillary. The only thing that can make Trump lose is the Republicans. tesuji 1 Quote
Guest MormonGator Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 In the end I guess it's just more sad than anything else. Trump has divided the republican party and because of that, caused the death of conservatism. Quote
Guest Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 16 minutes ago, tesuji said: Kasich was amazingly moderate for a Republican in 2016. He would have given Clinton a real contest. Republicans are nuts to have chosen Trump instead. Good grief. He didn't even give it a chance to see how he'd do without Cruz's hat in the ring. It isn't outside the realm of possibility that a shameless bully with the money and obvious influence The Donald has is capable of bribery and/or blackmail. As bad as Hilary is, I still don't feel any better about him. Quote
estradling75 Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, anatess2 said: The only thing that can make Trump lose is the Republicans. The only reason Republicans will not vote Trump is because he has alienated them from him... So to rephrase your statement "The only thing that can make Trump lose is Trump" zil and Just_A_Guy 2 Quote
Guest MormonGator Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, estradling75 said: The only reason Republicans will not vote Trump is because he has alienated them from him... So to rephrase your statement "The only thing that can make Trump lose is Trump" Republicans dislike Trump more than they dislike Hillary. I blame the Trumpers for this, and of course Donald. Quote
prisonchaplain Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 The only thing that can make Trump lose is Trump. It would not be so hard for him to win over many of us #NeverTrumpers. A bit of respect, a VP nominee that is at least semi-conservative, and some indication that Cruz would have a position in his administration. Trump has to be who he is--triumphant and bold. I'm just hoping he can throw us a few goodies in a way that looks magnanimous, rather than patronizing. Quote
zil Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 All I can add to this conversation is this video (forgive me if I got it from here in the first place): Honest Political Ads NeuroTypical 1 Quote
anatess2 Posted May 4, 2016 Author Report Posted May 4, 2016 Okay, it's time to really get serious about this. There was some woman that covered for Sean Hannity on his radio show a few weeks ago. I didn't catch her name but she asked a very important question that we need to ask ourselves... "Would you be open to the possibility that you are wrong about _______?". This was addressed to the NeverTrump and NeverCruz camps, with the question to NeverTrump asking about Cruz and vice versa for the NeverCruz people. Well, Cruz has suspended his campaign, so we're left with this question for the NeverTrump people - "Would you be open to the possibility that you are wrong about Trump?". This is what that question entails: 1.) Hillary will continue and expand Obamacare. Trump will repeal and replace it. 2.) Hillary will continue the economic direction of Obama including the primacy of alternative energy over existing fuel sources, the tax structure of the left, expanded welfare benefits including free college. Trump will primarily restructure all trade agreements starting with China, lower the tax burden especially on businesses but restructure the tax rate of carried interests to be the same as income tax and not capital gains tax that it is currently (i.e. "hedge fund guys"). 3.) Hillary will continue the globalist foreign policy of Obama that has caused the rise of ISIS and the events at Benghazi and retain, if not reduce, current levels of military resources. Trump will implement a revised America First foreign policy that effectively ends globalist principles and spend the money for a strong military. He will appoint an attorney general that will indict Hillary and Obama on Benghazi, Fast and Furious, and the private email server. 4.) Hillary will continue the current "open border" or "swiss cheese border" on the southern border and put illegal immigrants to the path of citizenship that will be eligible to vote as soon as 2020. Trump will beef up border security including building a wall and execute current immigration laws against illegal immigrants. 5.) Hillary will appoint leftist judges to the Federal Courts including the replacement for Scalia. Trump will appoint judges to the right of center. 6.) Hillary will continue funding of Planned Parenthood. Trump will suspend federal funding of Planned Parenthood until such time that they stop performing abortions. 7.) Hillary will continue and expand the federal Department of Education. Trump will push control of education back to local governments. 8.) Hillary will continue to put limits on 2nd Amendment Rights. Trump will not. 9.) Hillary will continue to put limits on Religious Liberty. Trump will not. 10.) Hillary will continue to divide the country into voting blocks - Black Lives Matter, War on Women, Class Warfare, etc. Trump will not. Quote
tesuji Posted May 4, 2016 Report Posted May 4, 2016 4 minutes ago, anatess2 said: Okay, it's time to really get serious about this. There was some woman that covered for Sean Hannity on his radio show a few weeks ago. I didn't catch her name but she asked a very important question that we need to ask ourselves... "Would you be open to the possibility that you are wrong about _______?". This was addressed to the NeverTrump and NeverCruz camps, with the question to NeverTrump asking about Cruz and vice versa for the NeverCruz people. Well, Cruz has suspended his campaign, so we're left with this question for the NeverTrump people - "Would you be open to the possibility that you are wrong about Trump?". This is what that question entails: 1.) Hillary will continue and expand Obamacare. Trump will repeal and replace it. 2.) Hillary will continue the economic direction of Obama including the primacy of alternative energy over existing fuel sources, the tax structure of the left, expanded welfare benefits including free college. Trump will primarily restructure all trade agreements starting with China, lower the tax burden especially on businesses but restructure the tax rate of carried interests to be the same as income tax and not capital gains tax that it is currently (i.e. "hedge fund guys"). 3.) Hillary will continue the globalist foreign policy of Obama that has caused the rise of ISIS and the events at Benghazi and retain, if not reduce, current levels of military resources. Trump will implement a revised America First foreign policy that effectively ends globalist principles and spend the money for a strong military. He will appoint an attorney general that will indict Hillary and Obama on Benghazi, Fast and Furious, and the private email server. 4.) Hillary will continue the current "open border" or "swiss cheese border" on the southern border and put illegal immigrants to the path of citizenship that will be eligible to vote as soon as 2020. Trump will beef up border security including building a wall and execute current immigration laws against illegal immigrants. 5.) Hillary will appoint leftist judges to the Federal Courts including the replacement for Scalia. Trump will appoint judges to the right of center. 6.) Hillary will continue funding of Planned Parenthood. Trump will suspend federal funding of Planned Parenthood until such time that they stop performing abortions. 7.) Hillary will continue and expand the federal Department of Education. Trump will push control of education back to local governments. 8.) Hillary will continue to put limits on 2nd Amendment Rights. Trump will not. 9.) Hillary will continue to put limits on Religious Liberty. Trump will not. 10.) Hillary will continue to divide the country into voting blocks - Black Lives Matter, War on Women, Class Warfare, etc. Trump will not. How does anyone know what Trump will do. I'm not sure he himself knows (or even knows what to do). Every indication so far, though, is that what Trump will do will be bad. The kind of crazy bad we haven't seen since, say, Andrew Jackson. Just_A_Guy 1 Quote
anatess2 Posted May 4, 2016 Author Report Posted May 4, 2016 Just now, tesuji said: How does anyone know what Trump will do. I'm not sure he himself knows (or even knows what to do). Every indication so far, though, is that what Trump will do will be bad. The kind of crazy bad we haven't seen since, say, Andrew Jackson. How do you know that what he will do will be bad? What's your basis for such assumption? Quote
anatess2 Posted May 4, 2016 Author Report Posted May 4, 2016 (edited) duplicate. Edited May 4, 2016 by anatess2 Quote
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