Tbone Posted May 29, 2016 Report Share Posted May 29, 2016 What does it mean to drink from the bitter cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted May 29, 2016 Report Share Posted May 29, 2016 5 hours ago, Tbone said: What does it mean to drink from the bitter cup Just about what it sounds like. What is your concept? Lehi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CV75 Posted May 29, 2016 Report Share Posted May 29, 2016 6 hours ago, Tbone said: What does it mean to drink from the bitter cup I think it means to humbly submit to whatever horrible/terrible test we are suffering at the time, trusting in God's promises all the while (preserving faith before every other consideration). Tbone, NeedleinA, Sunday21 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 1 hour ago, CV75 said: I think it means to humbly submit to whatever horrible/terrible test we are suffering at the time, trusting in God's promises all the while (preserving faith before every other consideration). I agree. I couldn't have said it better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askandanswer Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 There's a very popular kind of beer in Australia called Victoria bitter, but I don't think it has anything to do with this expression. Sunday21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmarklin Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 IMO it means submitting to the absence of God. Christ had to endure His suffering alone. It will not be required of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 3 hours ago, mrmarklin said: IMO it means submitting to the absence of God. Christ had to endure His suffering alone. It will not be required of us. That is an intriguing idea. I think the separation from God (that is not due to sin) is what the scriptures refer to as the jaws of hell. But I'm open to the possibility of more than one name for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 11 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said: I think the separation from God (that is not due to sin) is what the scriptures refer to as the jaws of hell. But I'm open to the possibility of more than one name for it. I think there's no such thing as separation from God that is not due to sin (for all of us other than Christ). (I cannot recall any scripture or teaching which implies that this is possible, but rather, that separation from God is the consequence of sin.) D&C 122 appears to be the only place in scripture where "jaws of hell" appears - and if you read the entire section, it's quite clear that God will not leave Joseph alone (see the last line). I think the phrase just means what it says - if all hell comes trying to get you, the same way a wild animal might open its jaws trying for its prey... "Bitter cup" appears to be used only in reference to suffering the consequences of sin (for all of us, in the case of the Atonement; for one's own sins in the case of the unrepentant). (only 3 references) We might use either term in our own way for something extremely trying, but these appear to be the only scriptural references. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) Sorry Zil, I wasn't very clear in what I was thinking there...about the jaws of hell. You are right that it is only mentioned in D&C 122. Jaws of hell is actually a term that was more common in medieval literature and art. I believe that since hell is separation from God because of sin, then jaws of hell is feeling separated from God - not from sin. When I say feeling separated from God through no fault of your own, I'm thinking of Christ when He was on the cross, and Joseph Smith (D&C 121). And I was thinking of people who feel separated from God due to depression, and other mental illness, shame from trauma--things of that nature that make it very difficult to feel the Spirit (or to feel the Lord is near...even if He is) -- and make you feel very much alone in your time of greatest need. Yes, I am talking about personal experience here. I won't be offended if you consider my position more literary (as in literature) or poetic than doctrinal. As that was my intent...literary. Bitter cup was used as CV75 suggested above by Elder Holland in his talk, Like a Broken Vessel. He said, "Believe in miracles. I have seen so many of them come when every other indication would say that hope was lost. Hope is never lost. If those miracles do not come soon or fully or seemingly at all, remember the Savior’s own anguished example: if the bitter cup does not pass, drink it and be strong, trusting in happier days ahead." (BTW, this was the short version, if you would like to read the long personal version it's here:https://lesliegnelson.com/2013/10/28/touching-his-robe-jaws-of-hell-excerpt/ Edited May 31, 2016 by LiterateParakeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edspringer Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 On 29/05/2016 at 1:11 PM, Tbone said: What does it mean to drink from the bitter cup Please visit this website: http://ldssymbols.com/ There you will find the cup as a symbol and its meaning and all related to it, as well as other symbols from temples and scriptures. Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 First off – I am not sure I know that much about the “bitter cup”. I have faced many difficult tasks and discouragements – but I am not sure that such things qualify as the “bitter cup”. The only example I know of – for sure – is the redeeming part of the atonement by Jesus. That caused him to bleed from his pours – something I have not even been close to – and as I understand, such would consume me. I am not sure a mortal can partake of the bitter cup but I think from our mortal experiences we can start to have an idea. But I do not think just going through a bad experience qualifies. I think resolve and purpose have elements as well as sacrifice and choice. I also think innocence plays a part – and as a fallen being none of us are innocent. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Traveler, you make a compelling argument, but I'm curious what you think then about Elder Holland's statement. "If those miracles do not come soon or fully or seemingly at all, remember the Savior’s own anguished example: if the bitter cup does not pass, drink it and be strong, trusting in happier days ahead." Like a Broken Vessel I have had much adversity in my life, and only one of those experience would I categorize as a bitter cup. So I agree with you in part, but not completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday21 Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 26 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said: Traveler, you make a compelling argument, but I'm curious what you think then about Elder Holland's statement. "If those miracles do not come soon or fully or seemingly at all, remember the Savior’s own anguished example: if the bitter cup does not pass, drink it and be strong, trusting in happier days ahead." Like a Broken Vessel I have had much adversity in my life, and only one of those experience would I categorize as a bitter cup. So I agree with you in part, but not completely. Dear Ms. Parakeet, Thank you for this quote. I really needed that quote today! My math is behaving badly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggieusa Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 I think the term refers to the fact our Savior having no sin would have to be separated from our Heavenly Father's presence. What would be more bitter then for the first time be away from His father? This shows how much He loves us. He knew how hard would be to face the atonement, but His love is bigger and he is willing to drink of it. Bitter cup, he took in order to save us from drinking of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 On May 29, 2016 at 10:11 AM, Tbone said: What does it mean to drink from the bitter cup To go through whatever agony to the point where all things in and under heaven will say, yes what he went through is good enough to satisfy the punishment for each and every law that has or will be broken- that none will be able to argue that it is unjust or unfair, or that a law or breaking of it has been left unfulfilled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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