Prisonchaplain's take on the devil


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What’s So Bad about the Devil?

 

Satan, Lucifer—the devil—just why is he so vilified? His troubles began in the heavens. He attempted to raise his throne above the stars of God. He was the angel of light, God’s most beautiful, powerful angel. One given so much should be grateful. After all, to whom much is given much is required. Instead, the created one attempted a coup against the Creator.

God cast him out of heaven, so he targeted humanity. He encounters Eve, and asks her if God really forbade them to eat from the trees of the Garden. He knows that only one tree is prohibited, but his question implies that God is unjust—unreasonable. Eve clarifies the command, yet she accepts Satan’s implication that God needs a defense. The devil then lies directly, saying that she and Adam will not die if they eat the fruit. He adds that they will become like God, knowing (deciding) good from evil.

The devil burns in the Lake of Fire for all eternity. He rules no kingdom. His only pleasure comes by deceiving us—making us believe that we can decide good and evil for ourselves—that we can be like God. Of course, if we are like God then we do not need him. Those who buy the lie also reside in that horrid lake forever.

Deceiver and rebel—that’s the devil! There is nothing attractive, cute, or noble about Satan. Truth and gratitude—creation must embrace these, as we humble ourselves before God. The Creator means us only good—only love!

 

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One of the things I find terribly important is that Satan not only hates God, but that he hates us, as well. Nephi tells us "And [men] are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself." No one who loves another wants to make him miserable, but that's exactly what the Devil has in mind for us.

Milton ("the Mormon") has Satan saying: "Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heav'n". He's no anarchist, he is quite a monarchist, but he wants to be the king. He wants us to serve him. So, whether we serve God or Lucifer, we will serve. So Joshua's charge is eternal: "Choose ye this day whom ye will serve!" We can choose liberty and eternal life, or captivity and death.

From the LDS Bible Dictionary:

Quote

Latter-day revelation confirms the biblical teaching that the devil is a reality and that he does strive to lead men and women from the work of God. One of the major techniques of the devil is to cause human beings to think they are following God’s ways, when in reality they are deceived by the devil to follow other paths.

Since the devil and his premortal angels have no physical body of flesh and bones, they often seek to possess the bodies of mortal beings. There are many such instances recorded in scripture (Matt. 9:32; 12:22; Mark 1:24; 5:7; Luke 8:30; Acts 19:15; see also Mosiah 3:6). Such can be evicted by the power of faith in Jesus Christ and the exercise of the holy priesthood. Jesus gave this power to His disciples (Matt. 10:1; Mark 16:17; Luke 10:17; Acts 5:16; D&C 84:67).

The devil is called the prince of this world (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11); the adversary (1 Pet. 5:8); Beelzebub, meaning the prince of the devils (Mark 3:22); the wicked one (Matt. 13:38); the enemy (Matt. 13:39); Lucifer (Isa. 14:12; D&C 76:26); Satan (Rev. 12:9); prince of the power of the air (Eph. 2:2–3); Perdition (D&C 76:26); son of the morning (D&C 76:26–27); that old serpent (Rev. 12:9; D&C 76:28); the great dragon (Rev. 12:7–9); a murderer from the beginning (John 8:44); a liar from the beginning (D&C 93:25); and the accuser (Rev. 12:10).

He is miserable in his situation and “stirreth up the children of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of darkness” (2 Ne. 9:9). He tries to imitate the work of God by transforming himself nigh unto an angel of light (2 Cor. 11:12–15; 2 Ne. 9:9; D&C 128:20). He is also a worker of miracles, by which he deceives many upon the earth (Rev. 13:1–15). In fact, the scripture says he deceives the whole world (Rev. 12:9). He can cite scripture to make his point seem plausible (Matt. 4:1–11). All of this is his scheme to make man miserable like himself. Protection against the influence of the devil is found by obedience to the commandments and laws of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The message of all the prophets and apostles is that truth, righteousness, and peace shall in the end prevail over error, sin, and war; the faithful shall triumph over all their afflictions and enemies and shall triumph over the devil. There shall be a complete and lasting victory of righteousness over wickedness on this earth, which will be done by the power of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Lehi

Edited by LeSellers
correct a potentially confusing typo
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One thought that came to my mind as I prepared this essay was that Satan had free will.  He chose to rebel against God. Likewise, a third of the angels joined him. Not sure how important it is to anyone's doctrine, but that idea that angels had authority too speaks to God's love of our liberty.

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31 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I miss read the title at first as:

Prisonchaplain takes on the devil.

I was like...yeah man! Cage match! Go PC, go!!

I can totally see that.  He already works in an area with a lot of cages, so why not?:duel:

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/27/2016 at 10:47 PM, prisonchaplain said:

a third of the angels joined him.

This is a bit problematic. The reference is Revelation 8:12:

Quote

12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

Notice Rev 8:12 does not say that "one-third", but "the third part of the stars of heaven". There are at least ten other references in the Revelation with the same phrase ("the" or "a third part"), e.g.,  Revelation 8:10

Quote

10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

Just as in English, "a third part" in Greek can mean 33.3333…%, it is just as likely (perhaps more so) that it means there are three (or more) parts, and the third (as opposed to the first and second or fourth, etc.) is the subject at hand.

On 6/27/2016 at 10:47 PM, prisonchaplain said:

Not sure how important it is to anyone's doctrine, but that idea that angels had authority too speaks to God's love of our liberty.

It's elemental to ours, since we have received revelation that we were the very angels (in the first and second parts) who rejected Satan's proposal to make himself king and to take the honor of God by force if necessary.

Lehi

Edited by LeSellers
Make a reference more emphatic
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35 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

Just as in English, "a third part" in Greek can mean 33.3333…%, it is just as likely (perhaps more so) that it means there are three (or more) parts, and the third (as opposed to the first and second or fourth, etc.) is the subject at hand.

Not quite.  "A third part" is different from "The third part".  "A" would indicate the fraction.  While "the" third part would indicate the ordinal position.

35 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

It's elemental to ours, since we have received revelation that we were the very angels (in the first and second parts) who rejected Satan's proposal to make himself king and to take the honor of God by force if necessary.

So, what you're saying is that PC is beginning to come around to LDS doctrines -- on the Christian Beliefs Board no less:eek:.;)

 

Edited by Guest
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Part of LDS.net's unofficial mission (says I, who had not part in its founding) is to clear up the fog of misunderstandings/characterizations between LDS teaching and that of other faiths. There's plenty of real difference, so it's good when some that is not so real gets exposed.

 

BTW, the scripture I had in mind is Revelation 12:4:   And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

In Revelation "stars" are often angels.  So, this tradition has developed.  Lehi is right, though.  The idea that one-third of the angels became demons cannot be proven--only suggested.

Edited by prisonchaplain
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On 6/27/2016 at 10:47 PM, prisonchaplain said:

One thought that came to my mind as I prepared this essay was that Satan had free will.  He chose to rebel against God. Likewise, a third of the angels joined him. Not sure how important it is to anyone's doctrine, but that idea that angels had authority too speaks to God's love of our liberty.

that is important. and part of his putting his throne over God's was taking all of ours and making it his.

edit - continue.

free will is more important than we know. In being Just if God created the freedom that allowed Christ to use his will of himself to do the greatest thing in mankind's existence, then he would have to extend that freedom to anyone that existed in that realm(s), including those who would try to go the polar opposite of Christ.

Edited by Blackmarch
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On 7/6/2016 at 7:59 AM, prisonchaplain said:

Part of LDS.net's unofficial mission (says I, who had not part in its founding) is to clear up the fog of misunderstandings/characterizations between LDS teaching and that of other faiths. There's plenty of real difference, so it's good when some that is not so real gets exposed.

 

BTW, the scripture I had in mind is Revelation 12:4:   And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

In Revelation "stars" are often angels.  So, this tradition has developed.  Lehi is right, though.  The idea that one-third of the angels became demons cannot be proven--only suggested.

As I understand things, an Angel is a servant/messenger of God (and more in a specific sense than a general)- the ones that delivered messages to individuals in the bible were human (or destined to be born human). No clue about Cherubim or any of the heavenly characters/beings/creatures that get mentioned in the bible.

What an angel is to God, a demon is to the devil. Demon is a good enough word for me to describe those who choose to specifically follow the Devil in all things.

interestingly this account of the war in heaven only has a couple mentions in the bible... but shows up in many other old cultures.

Edited by Blackmarch
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this thread got me to have a think. I wonder as a master of squishing a lie between two truths, the devil is careful on selecting which truths to use so that when we do reject him, if there will be a chance we will reject the truth parts that he uses to disguise his poison.

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  • 8 months later...

Sorry to resurrect this discussion from 9 months ago. As I pondered on the idea of three unequal parts, I asked myself if and how the scriptures describe the people of the earth in two parts. The answer is yes and the two groups are described in various ways. Perhaps most commonly they are referred to as the House of Israel and the Gentiles.

To be clear, God loves all his children. Jesus emphasized that his mission was to the House of Israel only (sometimes aka the Jews, though that term meant could be more or less restrictive based on context). Nevertheless, when the Gentile woman pressed him (dogs eat the scraps that fall) he accepted her and blessed her for her faith. In Acts 11, Peter was commanded by Jesus to open the gifts of salvation to the Gentiles.

My understanding which takes into account both the justice and mercy of God is that the House of Israel consists of those who were most faithful during the war described in John's Revelation; the Gentiles are those who supported Father and His Annointed but were not necessarily as strong. Lucifer and his servants were cast out. Now we invite all to come unto Christ, but we mostly expect the Israelites to heed the call. And in this age, most of us are of mixed blood physically, so it is hard to tell our spiritual heritage (other than we are children of God who chose to follow Him at least once already.) -cheers

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 7/8/2016 at 2:11 PM, Blackmarch said:

this thread got me to have a think. I wonder as a master of squishing a lie between two truths, the devil is careful on selecting which truths to use so that when we do reject him, if there will be a chance we will reject the truth parts that he uses to disguise his poison.

I can only assume he does, because if he can convince us to disbelieve truth, he's still won in a small way.

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  • 2 years later...
On 6/26/2016 at 7:31 PM, prisonchaplain said:

What’s So Bad about the Devil?

 

Satan, Lucifer—the devil—just why is he so vilified? His troubles began in the heavens. He attempted to raise his throne above the stars of God. He was the angel of light, God’s most beautiful, powerful angel. One given so much should be grateful. After all, to whom much is given much is required. Instead, the created one attempted a coup against the Creator.

God cast him out of heaven, so he targeted humanity. He encounters Eve, and asks her if God really forbade them to eat from the trees of the Garden. He knows that only one tree is prohibited, but his question implies that God is unjust—unreasonable. Eve clarifies the command, yet she accepts Satan’s implication that God needs a defense. The devil then lies directly, saying that she and Adam will not die if they eat the fruit. He adds that they will become like God, knowing (deciding) good from evil.

The devil burns in the Lake of Fire for all eternity. He rules no kingdom. His only pleasure comes by deceiving us—making us believe that we can decide good and evil for ourselves—that we can be like God. Of course, if we are like God then we do not need him. Those who buy the lie also reside in that horrid lake forever.

Deceiver and rebel—that’s the devil! There is nothing attractive, cute, or noble about Satan. Truth and gratitude—creation must embrace these, as we humble ourselves before God. The Creator means us only good—only love!

 

I understand lucifer as just thoth, the fallen angel, who after he fell with other angels following him, is the one king of those principalities and dominions scripture states, in the underworld...and who the pagan religions follow. In sanskrit he is called agni. In akkadian he is called marduk and in egyptian hieroglyphs he is called thoth. Satan in hieroglyphs represents the SA glyph, which means, emissary of thoths realm, a representative. And that once adam was made to fall by them, they having conqered eden by war, that things got flipped such that now, God's own 144k are seen as the devils, because we are not of this world and will be the undoing of the satanic one. By conquering Eden, thoth did indeed raise a throne...but he could not have done that without the eden attributes he stole from God, hence the high stakes today. Eve was left alone, I don't know why exactly, but she was never given the command not to eat and she is innocent of breaking any edict. Adam broke it, first having failed by leaving her alone since she was his responsibility. The lake of fire, oddly, is the eden realm which per ancient pagan texts is lethal to the satanic realm, literally burns them and kills them, continuously to be in the presence of. Thoth does have a realm and kingdom, the problem is that it is craven and empty to the core and only includes those from him, those of his realm and like him.

Edited by e v e
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On 7/8/2016 at 2:58 PM, Blackmarch said:

As I understand things, an Angel is a servant/messenger of God (and more in a specific sense than a general)- the ones that delivered messages to individuals in the bible were human (or destined to be born human). No clue about Cherubim or any of the heavenly characters/beings/creatures that get mentioned in the bible.

What an angel is to God, a demon is to the devil. Demon is a good enough word for me to describe those who choose to specifically follow the Devil in all things.

interestingly this account of the war in heaven only has a couple mentions in the bible... but shows up in many other old cultures.

yes it does.

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6 hours ago, e v e said:

. Eve was left alone, I don't know why exactly, but she was never given the command not to eat and she is innocent of breaking any edict. Adam broke it, first having failed by leaving her alone since she was his responsibility. The lake of fire, oddly, is the eden realm which per ancient pagan texts is lethal to the satanic realm, literally burns them and kills them, continuously to be in the presence of. Thoth does have a realm and kingdom, the problem is that it is craven and empty to the core and only includes those from him, those of his realm and like him.

I've always understood that Adam was with Eve during the temptation. Jewish writings indicate the same--he was with her throughout. Eve is punished, just as Adam is. She was not innocent, for God is just. The good news is that after God judges both Eve and Adam, he pronounces that through the offspring of Eve Messiah would be born and defeat the serpent. Further, the fact that Cain & Abel were taught to offer sacrifices to God suggests that despite the punishment they could in worship of the Father.

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6 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

I've always understood that Adam was with Eve during the temptation. Jewish writings indicate the same--he was with her throughout. Eve is punished, just as Adam is. She was not innocent, for God is just. The good news is that after God judges both Eve and Adam, he pronounces that through the offspring of Eve Messiah would be born and defeat the serpent. Further, the fact that Cain & Abel were taught to offer sacrifices to God suggests that despite the punishment they could in worship of the Father.

how do you explain how it’s possible a deity to fall? because adam and eve were in His Image - elohim means deity. And were in ‘our image’ God said ...referring to He and His feminine spirit? each was a deity  not creature (before the fall). How I understand is that the punishments after the fall are all by the satanic realm and it’s pantheon of gods. 

Adam fell when other gods (satanic realm) invaded eden. 

All our history being a rescue mission ever since. Christ legally undid the fall - true. 

Now soon the de facto situation of the fall will be undone. which is the Change (rapture) of the original 144k attributes of eden. 

I don’t know about adam being with eve. when i’m over the flu i will go see the hebrew text. I work with a researcher on ancient texts so that’s where I’m coming from. 

 

Edited by e v e
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7 hours ago, e v e said:

how do you explain how it’s possible a deity to fall? because adam and eve were in His Image - elohim means deity. And were in ‘our image’ God said ...referring to He and His feminine spirit? each was a deity  not creature (before the fall). How I understand is that the punishments after the fall are all by the satanic realm and it’s pantheon of gods.

I've gleaned from this site that LDS believe Adam & Eve volunteered for this mission of allowing humanity to experience temptation. They also believe that in our pre-mortal existence we were all eternal intelligences. However, I am not certain that the belief went as far as to say that we were deities.

My own background is Assemblies of God, a Pentecostal denomination within the broader Evangelical Christian movement. As such, We/I believe that Adam & Eve were indeed created and that their start point was in the garden. If I am right both of them certainly could have sinned and "fallen." Nevertheless, I suspect we all agree that the redemption part of the story is powerful and beautiful--a clear proclamation of God's love.

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28 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I've gleaned from this site that LDS believe Adam & Eve volunteered for this mission of allowing humanity to experience temptation. They also believe that in our pre-mortal existence we were all eternal intelligences. However, I am not certain that the belief went as far as to say that we were deities.

My own background is Assemblies of God, a Pentecostal denomination within the broader Evangelical Christian movement. As such, We/I believe that Adam & Eve were indeed created and that their start point was in the garden. If I am right both of them certainly could have sinned and "fallen." Nevertheless, I suspect we all agree that the redemption part of the story is powerful and beautiful--a clear proclamation of God's love.

Alright then. I guess since I am neither LDS or evangelical, I can see where the differences lie...since Adam and Eve, for me, were actually in His Image, and the term used in Hebrew for Image is elohim, thus they were of His same nature...not creatures at all. Though, because of the fall, then they did come down to the nature of this earth...I think the fall was a terrible thing and so I wouldn't say it is a mission. Likewise, we are not saved per evangelical formula. Salvation is what he told of, and that he made possible legally by the cross.. Our actual salvation will be De Facto when we are restored and go Home to New Eden. We are not more saved than Abraham. What we have is His promise of Heaven and also, we now have that Legally he made possible for us to be saved, by the cross.

I'm not super familiar with Pentecostal although I understand evangelical quite well actually and have a few close friends who are evangelical.  My background is that I was agnostic until one day He brought me to His heaven and for a long time, thereafter, brought me, and showed me many things. I don't claim to understand them all perfectly or even well. I just know He is love and that He literally came and got me. And for me, meeting Him was my promise of being saved from here. For a long time I did sort of follow the evangelical version of being saved, until I understood...that meeting Him is the point, and then to Go Home.

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I would go as far to say that evangelicalism as a concept (not directed at a specific soul, just the system) is in trouble with Him, for having rejected His Spirit, who is she, our mother. That was not a smart move but apparently rome was very busy making the all male trinity a standard. Even Irenaeus knew His Spirit was female. Until Medieval Rome came in labeling  many early christians 'gnostics' to impose its canon, and branding many heretics. So, from my view the reformation failed, and Medieval assumptions continue to affect Christianity. I was told once by a catholic priest, since I taught theology and philosophy at a catholic university in the past, that the catholic church is essentially augustinian. Well... so is modern christianity!  And augustine was a mess...so I wish modern christianity would abandon his views.  He was sure to make sure that no one in their right mind would ever ever ever realize that His Spirit is His very soul and is Feminine. His wife, one God, just as all the 144k  sons also has his feminine counterpart. That is the pattern of Heaven. Love. Anyway, I'm sorry i overextended me. I still have the flu and perhaps I am not speaking as clearly as would be best.

Edited by e v e
to be sure not to insult anyone I edited the post. I'm new and learning to post here.
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all I ever come up with is that Adam betrayed him deeply and that is why he abandoned Adam to the satanic realm upon this earth.

He showed me so many things, yet I still don't understand anything it seems.

 

Edited by e v e
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On 2/8/2020 at 8:39 PM, e v e said:

I would go as far to say that evangelicalism as a concept (not directed at a specific soul, just the system) is in trouble with Him, for having rejected His Spirit, who is she, our mother. That was not a smart move but apparently rome was very busy making the all male trinity a standard. Even Irenaeus knew His Spirit was female. Until Medieval Rome came in labeling  many early christians 'gnostics' to impose its canon, and branding many heretics. So, from my view the reformation failed, and Medieval assumptions continue to affect Christianity. I was told once by a catholic priest, since I taught theology and philosophy at a catholic university in the past, that the catholic church is essentially augustinian. Well... so is modern christianity!  And augustine was a mess...so I wish modern christianity would abandon his views.  He was sure to make sure that no one in their right mind would ever ever ever realize that His Spirit is His very soul and is Feminine. His wife, one God, just as all the 144k  sons also has his feminine counterpart. That is the pattern of Heaven. Love. Anyway, I'm sorry i overextended me. I still have the flu and perhaps I am not speaking as clearly as would be best.

Near death experiencer Christian Andreason was left with the impression that The Holy Spirit was the feminine aspect of the Creator.  

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