Guest Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 40 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Carb I'm just glad you moved on from coloring in books to actually reading them. Who says I moved on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Carborendum said: 2 hours ago, LeSellers said: There are, according to Dr. Demille*, three kinds of stories: whole, broken, and bent. * Dr. Demille didn't originate this terminology, but that's where I read it, and I'm too tired right now to look it up. Can't even recall his first name. See his wonderful book, A Thomas Jefferson Education, for the complete argument. The whole are good, where good triumphs over evil and each is clearly labeled correctly. The broken are useful, but evil wins; however, both good and evil are correctly labeled. The bent are evil: good loses to evil, but evil is seen as good, and good,at best, neutral, and usually unwanted. Lehi You forgot healing. I did. Thanks. This was from memory nearly a decade old now. Lehi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie123 Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) Be sure to read the "Hornblower" books by C.S. Forester. Set during the Napoleonic wars, they follow the adventures of Captain Horatio Hornblower - a very human naval hero of humble origins (his father was a doctor) who is tone deaf, can't dance and has few social graces. Don't feel you need to read them in fictional chronological order. A great one to start with is "The Happy Return" which takes place in the middle of Hornblower's career, and was in fact the first Hornblower book Forester wrote. Here are my comments on the canon: Mr. Midshipman Hornblower: describes how Hornblower first joined the navy. (Has some good bits in it, but is rather turgid in places. Reads more like a series of short stories than a true novel.) Lieutenant Hornblower: describes how Hornblower meets his long-time sidekick Bush, and how the two are forced to commit mutiny against their captain. (Great stuff - though the last few chapters are rather slow.) Hornblower and the Hotspur: as the least senior captain in the Channel squadron, Hornblower is frequently sat upon by his more "jerkish" superiors - but ends up having the last laugh! (Slow start, but gets better all the way through!) The Happy Return: Hornblower is forced to make an alliance with a dangerous madman, on the basis of the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" principle. No good comes of it! (Roaringly good cover to cover) A Ship of the Line: having fallen in love with a beautiful lady, Hornblower finds himself under the command of her husband, who is unfortunately an admiral. (Totally nail-biting at the end!) Flying Colours: following the events in A Ship of the Line, Hornblower and Bush are prisoners of the French. However, they plot a daring escape! (Totally brilliant!) The Commodore: now knighted and promoted to Commodore, Hornblower is sent to the Baltic to aid the Tsar of Russia. Unfortunately he has an assassin aboard! (Not as good as the two before it, but a worthy read nonetheless.) Lord Hornblower: Baron Hornblower (as he now is) is sent to put down a mutiny which threatens to destroy England's slender advantage in the war - despite the fact that he sympathizes with the mutineers! These are in chronological order, not necessarily reading order. I believe there are others in the series, but I do not have them. Edited July 21, 2016 by Jamie123 Sunday21, zil, Maureen and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 Not fiction, per se, but Carry On, Mr. Bowditch ought to be mandatory reading for every child before age 12. Most adults should read it, too. It is fictionalized, so not a true biography, and not fiction. Where, oh where, to classify it? Lehi Connie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie123 Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) 15 hours ago, LeSellers said: They're not novels, but I owe a good deal of my French to Astérix and Obélix. Even in translation (Italian, German, Latin, and English), they're good stories and just plain fun. I love Asterix and Obelix too. Obelix is so delightfully dumb. I remember one story where they are (as usual) fighting, and Obelix says: "I wish I knew why we're fighting. I hope Asterix explains it to me later." Edited July 21, 2016 by Jamie123 Sunday21 and LeSellers 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie123 Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 Oh....don't forget John Wyndham! Novels like The Day of the Triffids and The Kraken Wakes. And all the short stories too! Sunday21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, LeSellers said: Not fiction, per se, but Carry On, Mr. Bowditch ought to be mandatory reading for every child before age 12. Most adults should read it, too. It is fictionalized, so not a true biography, and not fiction. Where, oh where, to classify it? Lehi That is where "Based on a true story" and "Historical fiction" comes in. This is not to be confused with "Inspired by a true story" which means they simply took an idea from a real event and created an entirely fictional story off that basis. Edited July 21, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) Terry Pratchett is smart and funny. I especially love the Tiffany Aching series and "Monstrous Regiment". More classically, "How Green Was My Valley" by Richard Llewellyn is a beautiful book, especially once you adjust to the Welsh cadence. Edited July 21, 2016 by Eowyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirkwood Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, tesuji said: I guess we're not worried about derailing this nice thread, so... Nobody mentioned @MormonGator's multiple wives. @MormonGator Edited July 21, 2016 by mirkwood lonetree, Sunday21, Jamie123 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirkwood Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 @zil The books. There are characters that are not evil or even bad. Jim Butcher's Dresden Files is another good series. Sunday21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 1 hour ago, mirkwood said: LOL! That's awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connie Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 I don't read a lot of contemporary stuff, most of what i read is historical or classical. But this was one i really enjoyed: The Methuselah Project by Rick Barry. Lol, come to think of it this one has some historical in it, too. See how i am. Sunday21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 5 hours ago, LeSellers said: I did. Thanks. This was from memory nearly a decade old now. Lehi Have you noticed that TJEd seems to be changing their tune about bent stories? DeMille said that we need to search through whole and broken stories to find good healing stories, and to avoid bent stories like the plague. Today, the website is saying that it is possible for bent stories to be healing stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, Carborendum said: Have you noticed that TJEd seems to be changing their tune about bent stories? DeMille said that we need to search through whole and broken stories to find good healing stories, and to avoid bent stories like the plague. Today, the website is saying that it is possible for bent stories to be healing stories. What the what?! In the past they always said broken stories might be healing, but avoid bent stories. I'm still standing by the old standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) 17 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said: What the what?! In the past they always said broken stories might be healing, but avoid bent stories. I'm still standing by the old standard. Yeah, that was my initial reaction as well. I believe the problem comes from the definition vs the packaging. DeMille used to say that bent stories are horror and porn. But we now see too many examples that satisfy the "good is evil and evil is good" definition, but it is couched in such a way that it isn't necessarily to be avoided like horror or porn. We have many more anti-heroes in our storylines. We have simple entertainment where WWE bad guys are cheered more than the good guys. We have more books and movies where the bad guy is the protagonist and the context is such that the reader/audience is to cheer for them. The Suicide Squad is a prime example (I'm also assuming it's loosely based on the story arc "Assault on Arkham"). I used to read The Stainless Steel Rat series in my college days. That was certainly a story of an anti-hero. And there were some lessons that I learned from it. Granted, that also had him fighting against worse guys. But his tactics from a grown man's perspective were highly questionable. And let's not forget Batman. One of my favorite shows Leverage is basically a bunch of thieves who play modern day Robin Hood. It tends to paint all corporations as evil. But there are some healing lessons in that show. Edited July 22, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted July 21, 2016 Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 @Carborendum interesting. I'll have to ponder that for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday21 Posted July 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2016 19 hours ago, zil said: So, if your brain is tired, you may want to try the Mrs. Pollifax books - they don't have intricate spy plots that twist your brain around. I was sure I would hate them, but my mom insisted, and I love them now. In all the rest, there's a chance of language and sex scenes, but nothing shocking, as I recall: Adam Hall - The first one is The Quiller Memorandum - they'll be hard to find - they're all out of print, except maybe the last - but I see you can get the first on Kindle. The Tango Briefing is probably my favorite, and might be a better start than the first one. These are in the first person - which I wasn't sure I would like, but he does it well. Under his real name, Elleston Trevor, he wrote the quite famous Flight of the Phoenix, which was a popular movie. Len Deighton - The Ipcress File - short, but hard to follow the plot, as I recall. His older ones are better than the newer ones. Lawrence Block's Evan Tanner series, starts with The Thief Who Couldn't Sleep - totally different style, quite funny. Not exactly spy, but WWII: Alistair MacLean, the guy who wrote The Guns of Navarone - fabulous book. And I'm having a hard time remembering more (it's been a long time - I only still have Adam Hall's books - I consider him the best as far as actual espionage goes - oh, and Dorothy Gillman's). Thanks so much! I really appreciate your suggestions! zil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie123 Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 The books I would advise you to avoid like the plague are the "Left Behind" series by LaHaye and Jenkins. I have read most of them and I cannot believe how bad they are. The worst thing about them is that although they are so bad, and although you KNOW they are so bad, you can't help being sucked along. When you finish one book you won't be able to rest until you have bought the next...and you'll be dragged along for volume after ridiculous volume, gazing in disbelief at the plot-holes and glaring technical errors - and hating every minute of it! Sunday21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday21 Posted July 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 22 hours ago, tesuji said: I watched the TV episode 1 of Game of Thrones, heavily content-filtered through Angel. Yucky story. And the very last thing you see is two adulterers throwing a young boy off a tower. Based on plot summaries I've seen, Vidangel saved me from seeing, among other things, a forced-marriage wedding night rape, an orgy, and incestuous sex. There is also a lot of nudity, graphic sex, and graphic violence, from what I've read. I only got a little bit into the novels. I'd heard from others that were no "good" characters, and I didn't like the overall feel of the book. The author is not trying to edify me or provide me with wholesome entertainment. I don't trust him. I'm pretty sure if I wanted to, that I could get into the plot, the world-building, etc. But I don't want to develop a taste for things like this. About the TV version: I must try Vidangel! tesuji 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday21 Posted July 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 7 minutes ago, Jamie123 said: The books I would advise you to avoid like the plague are the "Left Behind" series by LaHaye and Jenkins. I have read most of them and I cannot believe how bad they are. The worst thing about them is that although they are so bad, and although you KNOW they are so bad, you can't help being sucked along. When you finish one book you won't be able to rest until you have bought the next...and you'll be dragged along for volume after ridiculous volume, gazing in disbelief at the plot-holes and glaring technical errors - and hating every minute of it! Thanks for the tip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesuji Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 28 minutes ago, Jamie123 said: The books I would advise you to avoid like the plague are the "Left Behind" series by LaHaye and Jenkins. I have read most of them and I cannot believe how bad they are. The worst thing about them is that although they are so bad, and although you KNOW they are so bad, you can't help being sucked along. When you finish one book you won't be able to rest until you have bought the next...and you'll be dragged along for volume after ridiculous volume, gazing in disbelief at the plot-holes and glaring technical errors - and hating every minute of it! It sounds like what they will make you read in hell, if they allow reading there! Sunday21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmarklin Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) Shogun by James Clavell. The definitive novel of Japan. Once you're into it it's impossible to put down All Clavell's novels are superb. Mystery? Nero Wolfe series by Rex Stout. Agatha Christies' Poirot series also a winner. Science Fiction? Honor Harrington series by David Weber. I can also recommend Miles Vorkosigan series by Lois M Bujold. Actually both these authors are a cut above. Vampires? The best author IMHO is P N Elrod. Vampire Files series. Romance? Almost anything by Georgette Heyer. She is without peer in this genre. Oh yeah, Jane Austen too. Someone has already mentioned the Dresden files and Harry Potter for wizardry! Edited July 23, 2016 by mrmarklin More stuff Maureen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 1 hour ago, mrmarklin said: ...Mystery? Nero Wolfe series by Rex Stout.... Romance? Almost anything by Georgette Heyer. She is without peer in this genre. Oh yeah, Jane Austen too..... My husband is a fan of Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe series. He also likes Ellis Peters' "Brother Cadfael" books. I also like Georgette Heyer, she is such an easy read. And of course, I also agree with Jane Austen. All great choices. M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 9 hours ago, mrmarklin said: Agatha Christies' Poirot series also a winner. How could I forget Agatha Christie!? Everything I've read by her (Poirot, Marple, those two young people whose names I can't remember) has been great! Sunday21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie123 Posted July 25, 2016 Report Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) A book I cannot believe I didn't mention before is "The Shack" by William P. Young. It's the story of a man mourning for his murdered daughter who receives a mysterious message - supposedly from God - which sends him to ... but I won't give the plot away. Just read it! Suffice to say that if "Left Behind" is the nadir of religious fantasy, "The Shack" is close to the zenith*. Though I'd warn you that if you are "horribly offended" by the idea of God being female, then you will be "horribly offended". *C.S. Lewis' novels are close to the zenith too - especially "The Great Divorce" and the "Ransom" trilogy. Edited July 25, 2016 by Jamie123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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