God- Physical Body or "Great Spirit"

[Larry Cotrell]

As I read through Alma I have come across a few passages that confuse me. I have heard that the LDS Church believes that God has a body of flesh and bones, I think that comes from D&C 130:22

"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."

But in Alma 18:26-28 Ammon refers to God as a spirit,

" And then Ammon said: Believest thou that there is a Great Spirit? And he said, Yea. And Ammon said: This is God. And Ammon said unto him again: Believest thou that this Great Spirit, who is God, created all things which are in heaven and in the earth?"

This concept is repeated in Alma 22:9-10

"And the king said: Is God that Great Spirit that brought our fathers out of the land of Jerusalem? And Aaron said unto him: Yea, he is that Great Spirit, and he created all things both in heaven and in earth. Believest thou this?"

 

Edited September 10, 2016 by Larry Cotrell

[askandanswer]

I like to think that I'm a great physical body with a great spirit   Would that it were true!

[zil]

Read the whole story from the start.   In the beginning, King Lamoni has no understanding of God beyond "the Great Spirit".  Ammon is trying to work with what King Lamoni already knows and help him to move from that starting point toward the truth.  This is how we all learn pretty much anything.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, zil said:

Read the whole story from the start.   In the beginning, King Lamoni has no understanding of God beyond "the Great Spirit".  Ammon is trying to work with what King Lamoni already knows and help him to move from that starting point toward the truth.  This is how we all learn pretty much anything.

I wish I had a dollar for every time I had to explain that one.  It makes me wonder how many of them actually read the context instead of just jumping to the references in anti-Mormon literature.

[Larry Cotrell]

13 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

It makes me wonder how many of them actually read the context instead of just jumping to the references in anti-Mormon literature.

I am reading through the Book of Mormon, I'm in Alma, and I am trying to understand it. I hope you don't mind me asking a question to clarify what I'm reading, @Carborendum. I don't just want to read the words in the  Book of Mormon, I want to understand what it is trying to say. Thank you, @zil for explaining.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Larry Cotrell

[Jane_Doe]

5 minutes ago, Larry Cotrell said:

I am reading through the Book of Mormon, I'm in Alma, and I am trying to understand it. I hope you don't mind me asking a question to clarify what I'm reading. I don't just want to read the words in the  Book of Mormon, I want to understand what it is trying to say. Thank you, @zil for explaining.

I'm obviously not @Carborendum, but I"m guessing he was expressing a general frustration and not specifically at you Larry.  I feel the same frustration.  It seems like for every 1 person who actually wants to genuinely read what Mormons ACTUALLY believe, there are 10 people who'd rather just go to some site cherry picking verses and not bothering to the actual understanding.  Obviously you, Larry, are in the 1 category.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Larry Cotrell said:

I am reading through the Book of Mormon, I'm in Alma, and I am trying to understand it. I hope you don't mind me asking a question to clarify what I'm reading, @Carborendum. I don't just want to read the words in the  Book of Mormon, I want to understand what it is trying to say. Thank you, @zil for explaining.

I don't know you from Adam.  So, how am I supposed to know?

If you are making a genuine effort to understand, then I'd advise you to do the following when looking at any "doctrinal inconsistencies":

1. Consider who the speakers were.  i.e. -- who said what and when?
2. What was the question that drew the answers given?
3. Why was THIS answer given for THIS question?
4. Look at the context in which something was said or done.
5. Is there a possible explanation for either the wording or the actual doctrine expressed that would explain some apparent discrepancies?

While I recognize that some of the answers may not be readily apparent to a person reading it for the first time, you will find much more meaning if you try to find these answers yourself first.  Then if you're stuck, by all means, go ahead and ask.  But if your M.O. is to find anything you don't quite get and immediately jump to asking others without putting any effort into it yourself, then I think you'll get out of it just what you put into it.

Quote

...behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right...

 

Edited September 11, 2016 by Guest

[bytebear]

I always distinguish OT and NT, in that the OT times (in the BoM too) the church was led by Jehovah, who at the time was the non-physical Jesus Christ, but they didn't fully understand the resurrection or the physical substance of the Father.  It was only after Christ came that the physical resurrection was understood as applying to God, and so I have no problem with people then (and even now) understanding God as a great spirit.  But Christians should understand that God (the Son) came to Earth, and was resurrected in physical form, so claiming Christ is anything but a physical being just makes no sense to me.  He  never shed his body, but ascended Heaven in physical form.

So, God (the Son) was  both the great spirit of the Old Testament, and the physical God of the post Resurrection.

Edited September 12, 2016 by bytebear

[NeedleinA]

@Larry Cotrell

Here is another resource you might consider in your studies. From lds.org, a library of quick answers to specific topics called: Gospel Topics  arranged in alphabetical order.

By clicking G, then to "God the Father" in the very first paragraph you see:
"God the Father is the Supreme Being in whom we believe and whom we worship. He is the ultimate Creator, Ruler, and Preserver of all things. He is perfect, has all power, and knows all things. He “has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's” (D&C 130:22)."

You now know in fact our doctrine is, "body of flesh and bones". If you find another scripture, as you have shared, you can rest assured that it is not contradicting our doctrine. Perhaps our understanding of what "appears" to be a contradiction is nothing more than our lack of understanding, BUT not a contradiction.

[anatess2]

On 9/10/2016 at 6:54 PM, zil said:

Read the whole story from the start.   In the beginning, King Lamoni has no understanding of God beyond "the Great Spirit".  Ammon is trying to work with what King Lamoni already knows and help him to move from that starting point toward the truth.  This is how we all learn pretty much anything.

At the same time, it is not wrong for Ammon to claim that God is Spirit.  We are all dual beings - beings with spirit AND body.  To talk about our spirit is to talk about spiritual things.  To talk about our body is to talk about physical things.  Both spirit and body (with body going through different physcial phases - pre-mortal, mortal, and post-mortal including post-resurrection) is the totality of who we are... and who God is.

 

[Larry Cotrell]

5 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

You now know in fact our doctrine is, "body of flesh and bones". If you find another scripture, as you have shared, you can rest assured that it is not contradicting our doctrine. Perhaps our understanding of what "appears" to be a contradiction is nothing more than our lack of understanding, BUT not a contradiction.

I understand that this is not a contradiction. It "appeared" to be a contradiction when I first read the passage, which is simply because of my lack of knowledge when it comes to the Book of Mormon. I posted the question, not because I thought that I had found some hole in Mormon doctrine, but because I wanted to understand what these references in Alma meant. I know understand these references thanks to explanations from various members. 

Also, thank you for the link to Gospel Topics.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Larry Cotrell

[Blackmarch]

On September 10, 2016 at 4:28 PM, Larry Cotrell said:

As I read through Alma I have come across a few passages that confuse me. I have heard that the LDS Church believes that God has a body of flesh and bones, I think that comes from D&C 130:22

"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."

But in Alma 18:26-28 Ammon refers to God as a spirit,

" And then Ammon said: Believest thou that there is a Great Spirit? And he said, Yea. And Ammon said: This is God. And Ammon said unto him again: Believest thou that this Great Spirit, who is God, created all things which are in heaven and in the earth?"

This concept is repeated in Alma 22:9-10

"And the king said: Is God that Great Spirit that brought our fathers out of the land of Jerusalem? And Aaron said unto him: Yea, he is that Great Spirit, and he created all things both in heaven and in earth. Believest thou this?"

 

He does have a great spirit, as well as a perfect body... Altho in this case they are focusing more on the being and building from a common ground, from the part the Lamanites do know .. Not unlike when we share about christ to christians- basically saying  have more to add what you already know about him.

Also there are some gospel helps such as the topical guide and the dictionary that can be quite helpful i think you mightbfind the entrys on bodies and spirits to e interesting.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/study-helps?lang=eng

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by Blackmarch