Sunday21

Mormon hill cumorah

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I promised that I would never develop an interest in where the Book of Mormon takes place..dangerous descent into all consuming passion but ...if as Dave Peterson believes the Book of Mormon takes place in Central America, how did Mormon bury the plates in the hill Comorah? 

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13 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

I promised that I would never develop an interest in where the Book of Mormon takes place..dangerous descent into all consuming passion but ...if as Dave Peterson believes the Book of Mormon takes place in Central America, how did Mormon bury the plates in the hill Comorah? 

Mormon didn't bury them, Moroni did; and he had forty years after the final battle to wander pretty much anywhere he chose to.

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13 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Mormon didn't bury them, Moroni did; and he had forty years after the final battle to wander pretty much anywhere he chose to.

What! Mormonwiki lied to me! I will never trust it again. I should have known not to trust anyone who says something like "Latter-day Saints sometimes inadvertantly called mormons'. I think they mean something like 'Latter-day Saints sometimes mistakenly called mormons'

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2 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

I promised that I would never develop an interest in where the Book of Mormon takes place..dangerous descent into all consuming passion but ...if as Dave Peterson believes the Book of Mormon takes place in Central America, how did Mormon bury the plates in the hill Comorah? 

Moroni walked there... considering he had about 40 years to get from point A to point B.

 

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25 minutes ago, Blackmarch said:

Moroni walked there... considering he had about 40 years to get from point A to point B.

 

Yes I calculated the distance and the walk. He could have walked there in a year easily. I don't blame him for getting out of town. For one thing the smell must have been terrific. I wonder if we will ever get to read an account of the journey?

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46 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Yes I calculated the distance and the walk. He could have walked there in a year easily. I don't blame him for getting out of town. For one thing the smell must have been terrific. I wonder if we will ever get to read an account of the journey?

There's no evidence Moroni had to walk very far at all. 

 

The Mesoamerican geographic model is far from proved. 

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1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

Yes I calculated the distance and the walk. He could have walked there in a year easily. I don't blame him for getting out of town. For one thing the smell must have been terrific. I wonder if we will ever get to read an account of the journey?

probably not till the next life or after the second coming. but it would be cool if we got one before then.

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18 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

What! Mormonwiki lied to me! I will never trust it again. I should have known not to trust anyone who says something like "Latter-day Saints sometimes inadvertantly called mormons'. I think they mean something like 'Latter-day Saints sometimes mistakenly called mormons'

Could you provide a link to the mormon wiki for that?  If it is incorrect, I need to get it changed.

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18 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

What! Mormonwiki lied to me! I will never trust it again. I should have known not to trust anyone who says something like "Latter-day Saints sometimes inadvertantly called mormons'. I think they mean something like 'Latter-day Saints sometimes mistakenly called mormons'

Also inadvertently means without intention or accidently....so accidently and mistakenly mean the same thing. 

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18 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

What! Mormonwiki lied to me! I will never trust it again. I should have known not to trust anyone who says something like "Latter-day Saints sometimes inadvertantly called mormons'. I think they mean something like 'Latter-day Saints sometimes mistakenly called mormons'

7 minutes ago, pam said:

Also inadvertently means without intention or accidently....so accidently and mistakenly mean the same thing. 

And why is it a mistake?  We're Mormons.  It's the Church we're not supposed to call "Mormon".

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"Moroni may well have named the hill in modern-day New York Cumorah because of his connections with the original location."

Two different locations...two different people burying two different records.

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6 hours ago, pam said:

Here is what is on Mormon Wiki.  It does state that Mormon buried a portion of the records and that Moroni buried the rest.  So the Wiki is correct.

http://www.mormonwiki.com/Cumorah

Ahh you are right. I found it in the Book of Mormon so both Mormon and Moroni buried plates in the hill Comorah. So as posted above, unless Moroni decided to name a hill in what was to become upper New York stake, Comorah, after the hill at home, seems a stretch, the Book of Mormon could not have occurred in Central America. But something tells that Dave Patterson has some explanation for this. I do love Dave Paterson and I spend every Sunday with him in the virtual sense but seriously I think he is clutching at straws here. 

The use of inadvertently, I seriously have a beef with. This use of inadvertently makes me cringe. Inadvertently does mean mistakenly but mistakenly in a specific sense. To do something inadvertently means to make a mistake through a lack of attention. I might inadvertently lock my keys in my car. When people call us Mormons, they are not calling us Mormon inadvertently, they do indeed mean to call us Mormons. They may error in calling us Mormon, that is if you believe that we are not in fact Mormons. That is, we are not Mormon but rather Lds. So people mistakenly call us Mormons. But they do not not inadvertently call us Mormons, it is not a slip of the tongue.?

Anyway sorry I brought up the whole mess in the first place!

 

 

 

Edited by Sunday21

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17 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Ahh you are right. I found it in the Book of Mormon so both Mormon and Moroni buried plates in the hill Comorah. So as posted above, unless Moroni decided to name a hill in what was to become upper New York stake, Comorah, after the hill at home, seems a stretch, the Book of Mormon could not have occurred in Central America. But something tells that Dave Patterson has some explanation for this. I do love Dave Paterson and I spend every Sunday with him in the virtual sense but seriously I think he is clutching at straws here. 

The use of inadvertently, I seriously have a beef with. This use of inadvertently makes me cringe. Inadvertently does mean mistakenly but mistakenly in a specific sense. To do something inadvertently means to make a mistake through a lack of attention. I might inadvertently lock my keys in my car. When people call us Mormons, they are not calling us Mormon inadvertently, they do indeed mean to call us Mormons. They may error in calling us Mormon, that is if you believe that we are not in fact Mormons. That is, we are not Mormon but rather Lds. So people mistakenly call us Mormons. But they do not not inadvertently call us Mormons, it is not a slip of the tongue.?

Anyway sorry I brought up the whole mess in the first place!

 

 

 

there multiple location theories all of which have their pros and cons. I personally lean towards the events having occurred in central-eastern US locations as i think there is better evidence for that, and that influence stretched from there  outwards.

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On 9/14/2016 at 6:21 PM, Sunday21 said:

Ahh you are right. I found it in the Book of Mormon so both Mormon and Moroni buried plates in the hill Comorah. So as posted above, unless Moroni decided to name a hill in what was to become upper New York stake, Comorah, after the hill at home, seems a stretch, the Book of Mormon could not have occurred in Central America. But something tells that Dave Patterson has some explanation for this. I do love Dave Paterson and I spend every Sunday with him in the virtual sense but seriously I think he is clutching at straws here.

Do we have record of Moroni calling the New York hill Cumorah?

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Guest

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/introduction?lang=eng

Or, we could consider a North American model (specifically, around the great lakes and New England area) where the battles were fought.  And Moroni left for parts unknown.  Then he returned after 40 years -- after the people who were so blood thirsty had died or the next generation had calmed down a bit with no enemies left.  

So, he had no one chasing him anymore.  And the stench had gone by then...

Edited by Guest

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Keep in mind that Moroni also dedicated the site for the Manti Temple.  It is my personal belief that Moroni buried the plates far away from the Lamanites to insure their safety.  In addition the plates needed to be in a place where the L-rd could direct a boy prophet to find them.  That the Hill Cumorah known to us today in upstate New York, is not the same hill that kept all the ancient Nephite records. 

I have theories of my own – but I have not found conclusive evidence to validate anything.  I am inclined to believe that the land of the Nephites is being kept unknown for reasons known to G-d.  One theory of mine is that the Nephites were just one people among many and that the “symbolic” blood of Israel through the branch of Joseph (and Lehi) was scattered among many “Gentile” peoples and we call them Laminates.  And that some would not realize their Book of Mormon connection if we found some subset of this prophetic reference that had a known geographical place

 

The Traveler

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

Keep in mind that Moroni also dedicated the site for the Manti Temple.  It is my personal belief that Moroni buried the plates far away from the Lamanites to insure their safety.  In addition the plates needed to be in a place where the L-rd could direct a boy prophet to find them.  That the Hill Cumorah known to us today in upstate New York, is not the same hill that kept all the ancient Nephite records.

The provenance for the story that Moroni dedicated the Manti Temple site is pretty dodgy--it boils down to Manti bishop Warren Snow, who in other reminiscences showed himself to be a little bit of a confabulator.  The Moroni-as-site-selector story is conspicuously absent from the records of sermons given at the Manti temple's cornerstone ceremony as well as its dedication.  See this link.

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On 14/09/2016 at 0:19 PM, zil said:

And why is it a mistake?  We're Mormons.  It's the Church we're not supposed to call "Mormon".

This is a little OT but IMO the people or members of any organized religion are the Church. If there were no members/people there would be no Church.

M.

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23 minutes ago, Maureen said:

This is a little OT but IMO the people or members of any organized religion are the Church. If there were no members/people there would be no Church.

M.

While true, it is not complete.  Any word has multiple definitions.  To us a primary one definition is the formal organization as an entity in addition to the membership thereof.  But you are also correct in being puzzled by Zil's words.  I was confused by that as well.

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Wouldn't it be great if one day in general conference, they told us? This is where the BOM took place. Here is a map. This is the narrow neck of land. See this area here? That's zarahelma. 

By the way, we will be issuing the new set of scriptures from the 10 tribes. Here is the website. 

Sigh. Maybe in the next life!

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On 10/10/2016 at 9:04 PM, Carborendum said:

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/introduction?lang=eng

Or, we could consider a North American model (specifically, around the great lakes and New England area) where the battles were fought.  And Moroni left for parts unknown.  Then he returned after 40 years -- after the people who were so blood thirsty had died or the next generation had calmed down a bit with no enemies left.  

So, he had no one chasing him anymore.  And the stench had gone by then...

I find that I have come to favor the North American model.  There's linguistic and DNA evidence of links between the Cherokee people and the Middle East. So far that hasn't turned up in Central America.  When Joseph sent missionaries to preach to the Lamanites in 1831, he sent them to the Central Plains, not Central America.

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I think it wise that for now at least the Hill Cumorah is in upstate New York based on the many testimonies of past and present apostles and prophets. The church officially recognizes the hill in New York as the very hill Cumorah spoken of in the scriptures.

Evidence itself is so subjective that even when direct substancial evidence is found it is often overlooked, forgotten in time, etc. Many are completely unaware for instance that our own government hundreds of years ago set up institutions like the Smithsonian to try to decipher what appeared to be the destruction of two ancient civilizations in New York. Books were written, studies were made and published. Yet, through time, these evidences and facts became less known and forgotten.

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