jerfore

Is the mind part of our spirits or physical body?

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This is my first post. I created an account here just so I could ask this question:

Is the mind spirit?

I've been reading a lot of success books lately (7habits, etc) which have lead me to think about both the conscious and subconscious mind in particular. The information I'm learning regarding the mind has been very helpful in my life but I still don't know exactly WHAT the mind is.

I feel I have a pretty good understanding of the body and spirit, but I am not sure whether or not the mind is physical or spiritual, or if it's possibly something separate?

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Yes :) it's both. The spirit is refined matter (d+c 131:7). To say the spirit has no brain is to suggest a spirit can't think (I feel that way atleast). Also, of you remember when the brother of Jared saw Christ, he was only a spirit at that time, but yet still looked like a man. Our spirits are intact bodies, just finite. I think it is safe to assume Christ, in that spirit form, had all the organs a regular person like you are I have.

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I see humankind made up of body, mind and spirit. Our body is our physical part, our mind is our personality, intelligence, what makes you you, etc. and our spirit is what connects us to God.

M.

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There are some who argue that we are three parts:  body, mind, spirit. Others say we are two:  body, mind/spirit.  Theologians argue 'bigly' about this--and some will even call one another heretics over it. When it comes to our life after mortality, I do believe it will be just the body that is left behind. Also, many New Testament writings declare the battle between the 'flesh' and the 'spirit.' My sense is that in those case it is both the mind and spirit that are being contrasted with the flesh.  We make godly decisions through our scriptural reasoning, and by the promptings of the spirit.

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The glory of God is "intelligence" and we were intelligent beings (having the capacity to learn and to know good from evil); therefore, the mind is both part of our spirit and surely our physical body. What constituted our "mind" as spirits would be considered "unknown" but we do know that we were "intelligence".

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3 hours ago, Anddenex said:

The glory of God is "intelligence" and we were intelligent beings (having the capacity to learn and to know good from evil); therefore, the mind is both part of our spirit and surely our physical body. What constituted our "mind" as spirits would be considered "unknown" but we do know that we were "intelligence".

This is a common misconception.   In his book, "Increase in Learning," Elder Bednar taught that "intelligence" consists of three things: 1. gaining spiritual knowledge, 2. getting an understanding of that  by having it confirmed to you by the Holy Spirit, and 3.  applying that knowledge in your life. 

Edited by Jojo Bags

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6 hours ago, Fether said:

Yes :) it's both. The spirit is refined matter (d+c 131:7). To say the spirit has no brain is to suggest a spirit can't think (I feel that way atleast). Also, of you remember when the brother of Jared saw Christ, he was only a spirit at that time, but yet still looked like a man. Our spirits are intact bodies, just finite. I think it is safe to assume Christ, in that spirit form, had all the organs a regular person like you are I have.

In this case, do you see the mind as part of the brain? (Temporal mind within the physical brain / spiritual mind within the spiritual brain organ)

 

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8 hours ago, jerfore said:

This is my first post. I created an account here just so I could ask this question:

Is the mind spirit?

I've been reading a lot of success books lately (7habits, etc) which have lead me to think about both the conscious and subconscious mind in particular. The information I'm learning regarding the mind has been very helpful in my life but I still don't know exactly WHAT the mind is.

I feel I have a pretty good understanding of the body and spirit, but I am not sure whether or not the mind is physical or spiritual, or if it's possibly something separate?

Joseph Smith taught that our mind is our spirit.  Don't confuse the physical brain with the mind.  Our mind/spirit is the controlling force of our body.   The spirit commands and the  body obeys.  This is why both Brigham Young and Elder Hartman Rector,  Jr., said that it is the spirit we must bring into subjection, not the flesh.

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1 minute ago, Jojo Bags said:

Joseph Smith taught that our mind is our spirit.  Don't confuse the physical brain with the mind.  Our mind/spirit is the controlling force of our body.   The spirit commands and the  body obeys.  This is why both Brigham Young and Elder Hartman Rector,  Jr., said that it is the spirit we must bring into subjection, not the flesh.

I would love to read some quotes from Joseph Smith teaching this. Do you have any I could refer to?

Also, what are your thoughts in regards to the heart? If the mind is hosted entirely within our spirits then would the heart be a part of the mind? Possibly the "subconscious" mind?

I also wonder if the mind might be our core intelligence. That part of our spirit that is self aware and has always existed maybe even before we formed as spirit bodies.

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18 hours ago, jerfore said:

This is my first post. I created an account here just so I could ask this question:

Is the mind spirit?

I've been reading a lot of success books lately (7habits, etc) which have lead me to think about both the conscious and subconscious mind in particular. The information I'm learning regarding the mind has been very helpful in my life but I still don't know exactly WHAT the mind is.

I feel I have a pretty good understanding of the body and spirit, but I am not sure whether or not the mind is physical or spiritual, or if it's possibly something separate?

I think the mind is both the body (organized element) and the spirit. The spirit mind is added upon and enhanced by the physical mind. The soul is spirit and element, ideally inseparably connected, but in mortality they eventually fail and come apart. But the "fulness of joy" in the resurrection is sensed by the mind, and both the mind and joy would be incomplete without the full integration of spirit and element. When I say body and element, I include the biochemical and mechanical processes that go along with it. That is how, for example, the mind of a defective brain or body can cause outward behavior that may run contrary to the spirit's agency.

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I think of the mind as merely a processor. Some are blessed with more efficient or faster procesdors than others. Problem solving is done by the spirit mind but because the physical mind is the processor it may not compute correctly. This is why handicapped people struggle- the processor doesnt compute correctly what an otherwise intelligent spirit is capable of. We see this same effect when alcohol or drug use mess with the processor. Given the right drug, a genius wouldnt even know how to tie their shoe!

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On 2/6/2017 at 8:48 PM, Jojo Bags said:

This is a common misconception.   In his book, "Increase in Learning," Elder Bednar taught that "intelligence" consists of three things: 1. gaining spiritual knowledge, 2. getting an understanding of that  by having it confirmed to you by the Holy Spirit, and 3.  applying that knowledge in your life. 

No misconception. Intelligence in scripture is also "light and truth". 

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19 hours ago, Anddenex said:

No misconception. Intelligence in scripture is also "light and truth". 

I think I'll take Elder Bednar's interpretation, especially since he's an Apostle.

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On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 9:06 PM, jerfore said:

I would love to read some quotes from Joseph Smith teaching this. Do you have any I could refer to?

Also, what are your thoughts in regards to the heart? If the mind is hosted entirely within our spirits then would the heart be a part of the mind? Possibly the "subconscious" mind?

I also wonder if the mind might be our core intelligence. That part of our spirit that is self aware and has always existed maybe even before we formed as spirit bodies.

In the King Follett discourse Joseph had some important things to say about the mind. He said, "The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is co-equal with God himself." Based on my own experience, this statement, and scriptures (see Romans 7:6-7, Alma 36:4 among others). I would agree with you that the spiritual mind is that part which some call the witness, consciousness, or awareness. It is co-equal with God. It is awareness itself. However, we also have a carnal mind. Our carnal mind is a tool for us to use, but sometimes we get lost in it. The tool becomes the master and we are swept away with a battery of thoughts. But religion itself is tied up with using our spiritual mind to control our body.

Joseph in the same discourse further said, "I take my ring from my finger and liken it unto the mind of man - the immortal part, because it has no beginning." Our spiritual core, never had a beginning and will never have an end, but we may be added upon.

There are a few statements in Lectures on Faith, particularly Lecture Fifth, which I find enlightening. In that lecture it defines three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. But it does not speak as we often speak of these three. I believe this lecture is helping us understand about ourselves. It is written, "And he being the Only begotten of the father, full of grace and truth, and having overcome, received a fullness of the glory of the Father, possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one..." And further on still speaking of the Son it says, "...being filled with the fullness of the mind of the Father; or, in other words, the Spirit of the Father, which Spirit is shed forth upon all who believe on his name and keep his commandments....And as the Son partakes of the fullness of the Father through the Spirit, so the saints are, by the same Spirit, to be partakers of the same fullness to enjoy the same glory; for as the Father and the Son are one, so in like manner, the saints are to be one in them."

Finally in the Q & A section of the same lecture we read, "Do the Father and the Son posses the same mind: They do. (see John 5:30, John 6:38, John 10:30). ...What is this mind? The Holy spirit. (see John 15:26, Gal 4:6)."  Important ideas about who we are and how we approach God are being communicated here. It is unfortunate that some disregard them. 

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6 hours ago, Jojo Bags said:

I think I'll take Elder Bednar's interpretation, especially since he's an Apostle.

I will take Elder Bednar's interpretation also, and recognize you clearly didn't understand what I was saying, and that is OK. As I said, no misconception, clearly your misunderstanding.

If you are referring to the scripture I mentioned D&C 93: 36, "The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth." I mean if you want to solely go with Elder Bednar that is clearly up to you. As for me, I will go with the scriptures, Elder Bednar, John Taylor (prophet by the way), and others who have spoken on this topic who hold the same office as Elder Bednar, and some like John Taylor who were prophets.

Edited by Anddenex

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On 2/6/2017 at 8:58 PM, Jojo Bags said:

Joseph Smith taught that our mind is our spirit.  Don't confuse the physical brain with the mind.  Our mind/spirit is the controlling force of our body.   The spirit commands and the  body obeys.  This is why both Brigham Young and Elder Hartman Rector,  Jr., said that it is the spirit we must bring into subjection, not the flesh.

I'm one of "those" people who has more questions than I do answers. If I don't confuse the brain with the mind, as you advise, then I'm still left wondering. What does mind/spirit mean? Does it mean mind and spirit together? Does it mean they should be considered as the same thing as you say Joseph Smith taught? Are they interchangeable? I talk about "my" mind and "my" spirit. That suggests that I possess my mind, therefore the mind is something that more or less belongs to me and which I utilize as an integral means for navigating existence. Likewise "my" spirit or "my" spirit body (and the Primary curriculum) suggest that spirit is something in which I reside (and which in turn resides in my physical body). So, if you say that our mind and spirit are the controlling force of our body, then I'm left wondering where that places "me" or "I" in the equation. Do I control my mind and my spirit? Or should I understand you to assert they control me? If the General Authorities say I must bring my spirit into subjection then it seems it is not the controlling force after all, but something over which "I" am the controlling force.

Finally, I'm left wondering then *what* am I, what is me? Some people say I am intelligence, or I am an intelligence. If, as @Anddenex mentioned, intelligence is light and truth does that mean I am light and I am truth? That's confusing. It's even more confusing if I try to use the word intelligence to define my self (I or me) as Elder Bednar defined intelligence. I "am" the gaining of spiritual knowledge, I "am" the getting of an understanding of that by having it confirmed to by the Holy Spirit, and I "am" applying that knowledge in my life? Those sound more like wise (intelligent) actions for me to take, rather than definitions of me (if I am intelligence). As you can probably tell, I'm quite nonplussed. 

Edited by Mike

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Off-topic/threadjack

3 hours ago, james12 said:

Finally in the Q & A section of the same lecture we read, "Do the Father and the Son posses the same mind: They do. (see John 5:30, John 6:38, John 10:30). ...What is this mind? The Holy spirit. (see John 15:26, Gal 4:6)."

If I had nothing else to go on, this almost sounds like a form of binitarianism.

I have little to contribute to the main question, because I don't know. Perhaps a lot comes down to a careful definition of "mind". Perhaps some of this is deep metaphysics that I do not even begin to understand. We have anecdotes of people whose personalities change dramatically in response to a stroke or other brain trauma. I have seen endocrinologists suggest that, if they could manipulate hormones at will, they could give you any personality they wanted. These suggest that the physical has an impact on personality, but I don't know how personality is related to this "mind" or "spirit" that we are talking about. Being a child of God suggests that something about me is directly inherited from God, but we also talk about a part of our "intelligence" that exists independent of God. At this point, I have such a poor understanding of the physical, emotional, and intellectual parts that I can see, that I don't think I have much hope (in this life) of really understanding the metaphysical parts of me that I cannot see.

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The mind is part of the physical body and is controlled by the Spirit.

This is apparent in people with mental health challenges where the Spirit has to navigate the mortal challenge of a mind that does not respond to Spiritual instruction with ease.

My grandmother was a great and valiant person who endured to the end in her love for Christ and obedience to His commandments.  She contracted Alzheimer's disease in her old age that caused her to attack everybody around her because she thought they were Japanese soldiers in WWII.  Surely this is apparent that my grandmother's mind may have been broken but that doesn't mean that her Spirit is.

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8 hours ago, anatess2 said:

The mind is part of the physical body and is controlled by the Spirit.

This is apparent in people with mental health challenges where the Spirit has to navigate the mortal challenge of a mind that does not respond to Spiritual instruction with ease.

My grandmother was a great and valiant person who endured to the end in her love for Christ and obedience to His commandments.  She contracted Alzheimer's disease in her old age that caused her to attack everybody around her because she thought they were Japanese soldiers in WWII.  Surely this is apparent that my grandmother's mind may have been broken but that doesn't mean that her Spirit is.

This is why I think the word "mind" might be used in multiple contexts.

For example, Joseph Smith stated: "The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is [co-eternal] with God himself." (This clearly isn't referring to the mind in context of the physical body, but rather something even more ancient than the formation of our spirit bodies).

However, when we look at D&C 67:10 "...the veil shall be rent and you shall see me and know that I am—not with the carnal neither natural mind, but with the spiritual." This makes me wonder if we have two different minds or if our eternal mind (intelligence) can sway among light and dark. ?

 

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1 hour ago, jerfore said:

This is why I think the word "mind" might be used in multiple contexts.

For example, Joseph Smith stated: "The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is [co-eternal] with God himself." (This clearly isn't referring to the mind in context of the physical body, but rather something even more ancient than the formation of our spirit bodies).

However, when we look at D&C 67:10 "...the veil shall be rent and you shall see me and know that I am—not with the carnal neither natural mind, but with the spiritual." This makes me wonder if we have two different minds or if our eternal mind (intelligence) can sway among light and dark. ?

 

I understand this to be that the mind is carnal with the spiritual being referred to here as consciousness/will/Intelligence - a spiritual force that controls the mind.

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Intelligence is co-eternal with God (D&C 93:29);

 

The glory of God is intelligence (D&C 93:36);

 

We are spirit children of our Heavenly Father;

 

We were granted a physical body due to our fidelity in our first estate (Abraham 3:24-26);

 

I my personal view of things, our minds are our awareness of our existence (cogita ego sunt). Mind is intelligence and consciousness. As spirits, our learning, actions and progress were limited. Only through a physical body we could advance in knowledge;

 

Our brain has an important connection to this intelligent part of us. We know that brain injuries can seriously compromise one’s life. Without the brain functions, we cannot learn, act and, thus, progress. We are to increase in learning, in light and in truth in order to meet God’s expectations for us.

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9 hours ago, anatess2 said:

I understand this to be that the mind is carnal with the spiritual being referred to here as consciousness/will/Intelligence - a spiritual force that controls the mind.

In this case, what are your thoughts regarding the mind in the pre-existence? Is it carnal by nature even there?

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20 minutes ago, jerfore said:

In this case, what are your thoughts regarding the mind in the pre-existence? Is it carnal by nature even there?

In the pre-existence we are Intelligence/consciousness/will in a pre-mortal body.  Carnality is a mortal construct.

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28 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

In the pre-existence we are Intelligence/consciousness/will in a pre-mortal body.  Carnality is a mortal construct.

When you say that carnality is a mortal construct are you referring to the earthly environment in which we find ourselves?

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2 minutes ago, Mike said:

When you say that carnality is a mortal construct are you referring to the earthly environment in which we find ourselves?

No.  I'm simply referring to human existence.

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