Deceived

[The Folk Prophet]

Some interesting discussion was had in Sunday School on being deceived. However, it fell right at the tag end of class (running late) and so not much depth to the discussion. But it got me interested. Are there clear scriptural guides to not being deceived? We know even the elect will be. So how do we avoid it?

So I did a search (initially confined to the D&C) and came up with these 5 scriptures. If anyone is so inclined, review them and the surrounding verses and share your thoughts.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/46.8?lang=eng#p7

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/52.14?lang=eng#p13

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/49.23?lang=eng#p22

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/45.57?lang=eng#p56

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/43.6?lang=eng#p5

Edited June 26, 2017 by The Folk Prophet

[Fether]

One way of avoiding deception is knowing what God will and will not reveal to you. The last half of Dallin H Oaks talk titled "revelation" expounds in this quote a bit

[person0]

33 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

So how does we avoid it?

I think your computer was recently deceived as to what you meant to type.  Either that or you were deceived by your grammar teacher.  

Switching to serious mode, I think that the last verse you posed (D&C 43:6) really hits home for me because of the verses that precede and follow it:

Quote

4 But verily, verily, I say unto you, that none else shall be appointed unto this gift except it be through him. . .

7 For verily I say unto you, that he that is ordained of me shall come in at the gate and be ordained as I have told you before, to teach those revelations which you have received and shall receive through him whom I have appointed. (D&C 43:7)

This informs us that true messengers will follow the prescribed patterns revealed to us in the latter day revelations we have, and will be properly appointed.  I believe that most deception will occur when people follow 'revelation' that comes from a seemingly true pattern, but is not from the pattern and process laid out to us for the latter-days.  There are already many Snufferites and others in the Church who have been deceived by following people who make a good case, but who are not authorized according to the revealed method.  I think many will be deceived more because they will be convinced that certain doctrines are false or non-doctrines are true and will make decisions based on a few verses or statements.  As Neil L. Anderson put it:

Quote

[Doctrine] is not hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk. True principles are taught frequently and by many. Our doctrine is not difficult to find. (Trial of your Faith)

Personally I have pondered this topic as it related to the fruit of the Spirit.  I believe Satan works very hard to mimic the fruit of the Spirit as closely as possible to deceive as many as he can.  Below are some of the things I have considered in terms of how he mimics them (in addition to the evil fruits already listed in Galatians).

Fruit of the Spirit |  Satan's Alternative (or some of them at least)

Love                      |  Physical and emotional intimacy / Lust
Joy                        |  Fun / Laughter / Entertainment, etc.
Peace                   |  Tranquility (I first noticed this when I spent a day working carpet cleaning in a meditation temple for a far eastern religion)
Longsuffering        |  'Wo is me' - those who 'patiently' wait for an evil end (i.e. homosexual couple suing business - awaiting reparations and societal acceptance)
Gentleness           |   'Tolerance' / Acceptance or approbation (esp. of wickedness)
Goodness             |  Financially Charitable, 'nice', Mainstream
Faith                     |  Conviction / Confidence  (Saul was steadfast in his beliefs before he converted to the truth; most 'salesmen' are confident in their products)
Meekness             |  Resignation/Submission/Apathy (i.e. giving up and 'accepting your fate')
Temperance          |  'appropriate' moderation of bad things (i.e. alcohol, drug use, porn, extra-marital sexual conduct, etc.)

Many of us would immediately recognize the wickedness of many actions of our fellow men.  However, I am constantly being reminded and watching the elect be deceived on a daily basis as I see what some who are 'active' members of the church are posting on Facebook, saying in sacrament meeting, advocating for, etc.

All that said, I believe the most effective protections against deception are a continually nourished testimony of true and established principles and doctrines of the gospel; an inner testimony and commitment to follow the prophet and apostles; and following the prescribed patterns revealed to us in existing latter day revelations.  All easier said than done. 

[The Folk Prophet]

3 minutes ago, person0 said:

I think your computer was recently deceived as to what you meant to type.  Either that or you were deceived by your grammar teacher.  

Typo fixed. And may I add....kiss my grits.

[Guest]

I'll go in numerical Order:

43: The proper order of revelation.  Word for the entire Church shall only come through the Lord's Prophet.
45: The 5 wise virgins are those who listen to the Holy Ghost for their guide.
46: Gifts of the Spirit are for the benefit of all, not for the benefit of the one displaying or possessing the gift.
49: Beware false Christs.
52: Be humble, meek, contrite spirit.

So, to avoid being deceived:

1. Be humble, etc.
2. Follow to the Prophet.
3. Listen to the Spirit and receive confirmation of everything that will change your life.
4. Recognize the true and living Christ.
5. Find the spiritual benefit of all and look to the source of the power rather than the individual displaying the power.
    

[The Folk Prophet]

35 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I'll go in numerical Order:

43: The proper order of revelation.  Word for the entire Church shall only come through the Lord's Prophet.
45: The 5 wise virgins are those who listen to the Holy Ghost for their guide.
46: Gifts of the Spirit are for the benefit of all, not for the benefit of the one displaying or possessing the gift.
49: Beware false Christs.
52: Be humble, meek, contrite spirit.

So, to avoid being deceived:

1. Be humble, etc.
2. Follow to the Prophet.
3. Listen to the Spirit and receive confirmation of everything that will change your life.
4. Recognize the true and living Christ.
5. Find the spiritual benefit of all and look to the source of the power rather than the individual displaying the power.
    

I think there's a big one perhaps missed in this excellent list.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/52.15-16?lang=eng#p14 (the last 4 words in each verse):

I only point it out now in that it jumped out at me in class too and so I'm mindful of it now:

15 Wherefore he that prayeth, whose spirit is contrite, the same is accepted of me if he obey mine ordinances.

16 He that speaketh, whose spirit is contrite, whose language is meek and edifieth, the same is of God if he obey mine ordinances.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I think there's a big one perhaps missed in this excellent list.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/52.15-16?lang=eng#p14 (the last 4 words in each verse):

I only point it out now in that it jumped out at me in class too and so I'm mindful of it now:

15 Wherefore he that prayeth, whose spirit is contrite, the same is accepted of me if he obey mine ordinances.

16 He that speaketh, whose spirit is contrite, whose language is meek and edifieth, the same is of God if he obey mine ordinances.

What you actually want to make it difficult by requiring obedience too?  Sheesh.

[Edspringer]

3 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Some interesting discussion was had in Sunday School on being deceived. However, it fell right at the tag end of class (running late) and so not much depth to the discussion. But it got me interested. Are there clear scriptural guides to not being deceived? We know even the elect will be. So how do we avoid it?

So I did a search (initially confined to the D&C) and came up with these 5 scriptures. If anyone is so inclined, review them and the surrounding verses and share your thoughts.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/46.8?lang=eng#p7

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/52.14?lang=eng#p13

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/49.23?lang=eng#p22

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/45.57?lang=eng#p56

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/43.6?lang=eng#p5

I pretty much enjoyed this Sunday school class yesterday and I was taken to ponder a lot on a bunch of issues:

1) The Holy Ghost is our primary source for truth and light. He can truly guide us. Everything we do in the Church leads us to have the companionship of the HG. I recently got to the conclusion that many members of the Church who had been given the gift of the HG by the laying on of hands have never enjoyed His company, or in other words, have never actually received the HG, as stated in the confirmation prayer. So this thought meets the truths outlined in D&C 46:8 andin D&C 45:27 which advises us to seek earnestly the best gifts. The gift of the HG is the best gift ever;

2) There are a lot of distractions in the world today, a lot of loud voices. People seem to let God’s things in second plan in their lives. I like to illustrate this truth using a cellphone as a good example. A Church member who has a smartphone will surely have the Gospel Library app.  But how many other non-lds apps will there be in this person’s mobile phone as well? The competition isn’t fair (LOL). Well, the same thing happens in our daily lives: there’s so much to do and so much to see that we postpone scripture studying and even prayer. Satan uses good things to deviate our attention of the things that really matter in terms of salvation. It meets the truths in D&C 52:14;

3) We sometimes call good that which is bad and call bad that which is good. There seems to be a lot of confusion these days. Truth, as President Nelson well stated in his message to the young adults of the Church last January, has been taken as “only a subjective experience”. The philosophies of men have been preached as truth while God’s truth has been neglected or even rejected when it comes to morality and happiness. The Enemy is very cunning in his ways and will always teach his doctrine mingled with scriptures. As person0 has stated, love is being taken as lust. I recently watched “Wonder woman” with my wife at a local movie theater and when the movie finished I could clearly see that the doctrine of love stated in the movie was not the doctrine of love God has instituted. When I asked my wife if she had noticed the same, she said she didn’t notice it. D&C 43:6 refers to commandments and revelations that do not come from God. God is love, but not the type of love the world preaches.

4) I mentioned two set of verses in our class. They are the following:

“For I say unto you that whatsoever is good cometh from God, and whatsoever is evil cometh from the devil.” (Alma 5:40);

“Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.

But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God. Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.

For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.

For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God. But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.

And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged. Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ” (Moroni 7:12-19).

 5) I strongly believe that we quite often take the Lord’s things for granted. We neglect basic things like family home evening, personal and family scripture reading and prayer, and so forth. I believe that the day of truth will come to each of us, a day when our beliefs and testimony of the gospel will be really put to the test, and they are not far from now.

 

Hope I have contributed for the discussion.

[Jojo Bags]

4 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Some interesting discussion was had in Sunday School on being deceived. However, it fell right at the tag end of class (running late) and so not much depth to the discussion. But it got me interested. Are there clear scriptural guides to not being deceived? We know even the elect will be. So how do we avoid it?

So I did a search (initially confined to the D&C) and came up with these 5 scriptures. If anyone is so inclined, review them and the surrounding verses and share your thoughts.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/46.8?lang=eng#p7

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/52.14?lang=eng#p13

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/49.23?lang=eng#p22

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/45.57?lang=eng#p56

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/43.6?lang=eng#p5

Correct knowledge will eliminate deception. While the Holy Ghost can bring all things back to your remembrance,  if the knowledge was never there in the first place,  there won't be anything to bring back.  Read Joseph Smith's article,  "Try the Spirits" (HC 4:571-581). It is all about false spirits.   Section 50 is a result of this article. 

[Rob Osborn]

I was just reading an article in the news about a bishop that got arrested in Utah for sexually abusing two boys. That to me is an extreme case of being deceived. On the other end or  you have your false prophets who seemingly obey the commandments but claim to have been revealed things like the prophets are wrong or have been deceived. The whole "tent city" revelations from a decade ago reminds me of that situation. Had many neighbors that seriously considered moving to the mountains to escape the United Nations roundup of the masses into prison camps.

In general though, the elect being deceived is usually the cause of disobedience leading to a falling away from the church or excommunication and may also include incarceration in prison for ones crimes.

[Guest]

I just happened to be reading these:

Matt 7:24-27

Luke 6: 46-49

3 Ne 14: 24-27

And realized that being deceived while preparing for the next life or preparing for the Millennium doesn't make a difference.  Being deceived will still get us "I never knew you," or possibly,"You never knew me."

[The Folk Prophet]

So I decided to bullet point out the ideas I see surrounding these scriptures. Starting with D&C 46:8. I'm not sure all of these directly relate to not being deceived, as some of it seems related to church administration and leadership. But the ideas are related, so....

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/46.8?lang=eng#p7

• ask of God
• ask in all holiness of heart
• walk uprightly before God
• consider the end of your salvation
• doing all things with prayer and thanksgiving
• seek ye earnestly the best gifts
• always remembering the gifts are given for the benefit of those who love God and keep all His commandments
• ask not for a sign that you may consume it upon your lusts
• retain in your minds what the gifts are
• practice virtue and holiness before God continually

[The Folk Prophet]

D&C 52:14

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/52.14?lang=eng#p13

• prayeth
• spirit contrite
• obey ordinances
• speak with meek language that edifieth
• trembleth under God's power
• bring forth fruits of praise and wisdom according to revelation and truth

Note: these seem to be a way to recognize those who are deceiving and who are not, but I think it also plays into how we can be to not be deceived. (As in, if someone doesn't bring forth fruits of praise and wisdom according to revelation and truth is not of God, but if we aren't bringing these things forth ourselves then we are also being deceived.)

[The Folk Prophet]

D&C 49:23

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/49.23?lang=eng#p22

• repent of all your sins
• believe on the name of the Lord Jesus
• be baptized
• recieve the Holy Ghost
• do not forbid to marry
• whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God
• not given that one man should possess that which is above another
• wo be unto man that sheddeth blood or that wasteth flesh and hath no need.
• continue in steadfastness
• looking forth for the heavens to be shaken, earth to tremble, valleys exaled, mountains made low...etc.
• ask and ye shall receive; knock and it shall be opened unto you.

Once again, I'm not sure if all of these directly apply to not being deceived, but...interesting thoughts. For example, the abstaining from meat idea: There may be something to it in principle, specifically in the ideas surrounding it, as in: "the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance." This principle and the way we think of an interact with the things god has given us (and this relating to looking beyond the mark and other ideas) may well play into not being deceived.

[The Folk Prophet]

D&C 45:57

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/45.57?lang=eng#p56

• parable of the ten virgins
• wise and have received the truth
• taken the Holy Spirit for their guide

[The Folk Prophet]

D&C 46:6

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/43.6?lang=eng#p5

• recieve laws unto the church through him whom the Lord hath appointed
• only one appointed until he (prophet) is taken
• none other appointed except through him (prophet)
• receive not teachings of any that shall come before you as revelations or commandments
• he that is ordained shall come in at the gate (ordained as prophet, seer, revelator)
• instruct and edify each other
• bind yourself to act in all holiness before God
• purge ye out the iniquity which is among you
• sanctify yourselves before God
• uphold the prophet by prayer and faith
• call upon the nations to repent
• labor in the vineyard
• treasure these things in your hearts
• let the solemnities of eternity rest upon your minds
• be sober
• keep all God's commandments

[The Folk Prophet]

Looking in the Book of Mormon now:

First thought: Sherem (Jacob 7)

When Sherem was deceived and confesses he says:

• Deceived by the power of the devil
• Lied unto God
• Denied the Christ.

I think this is interesting. In theory, lying about something and being deceived by something seem like opposites. I'm not 100% sure how to reconcile the ideas. But...perhaps the deception wasn't the understanding or belief of the truth, but rather the deception as to power and what the devil claims he can offer. Applying that to ourselves it might be anything: pleasure, wealth, happiness, fulfillment, acceptance, etc. -- all stand ins for "power" that deceives. And thereby, we lie unto God and unto ourselves.

I think this lying thing is an important idea.

[The Folk Prophet]

Another example related to lying is Zeezrom. (Alma 12) In Zeezrom's case he doesn't seem so much deceived as he seems openly in rebellion for the sake of wealth. He is intentionally a liar for the sake of money. That being said, there's a clear indication that he doesn't believe in God (or at least in God's power) because he is shaken from his path of wrongdoing by the fact that Alma and Amulek know the intents of his heart which convinces him of God's power. Then he confesses that he has been lying and sinning. (Alma 14:6-7)

[The Folk Prophet]

Korihor: (Alma 30)

• Always knew there was a God
• devil appeared as an angel
• ideas pleasing to the carnal mind
• began to believe the lies were true

He knew the truth but began to believe the lies -- except the knowing of the truth meant he never really believed the lies, but he convinced himself he did. I think this pattern matters a great deal.

The other very, very important lesson here is that the deception and lies are pleasing to the carnal mind. This is also, to my thinking, a pattern of how we are or are not deceived. Buying into those things that please the carnal mind pretty much guarantees we will be deceived. Conversely, being extremely wary of this is one key way to not be deceived.

[SpiritDragon]

2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

• devil appeared as an angel

Some important points on rejecting false messengers: D&C 129 teaches about offering to shake hands and determine if it be resurrected soul, the spirit of a just man made perfect,or a premortal or disembodied spirit and how to tell whether a spirit is trying to deceive or is honest. Interestingly, Joseph also taught that hair color could be used as an important clue as on one occasion he explained that a messenger with sandy colored hair was an impostor.

[The Folk Prophet]

35 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

Some important points on rejecting false messengers: D&C 129 teaches about offering to shake hands and determine if it be resurrected soul, the spirit of a just man made perfect,or a premortal or disembodied spirit and how to tell whether a spirit is trying to deceive or is honest. Interestingly, Joseph also taught that hair color could be used as an important clue as on one occasion he explained that a messenger with sandy colored hair was an impostor.

I tend to think that the idea taught in D&C 129 is more important that the literal.

The sandy colored hair thing may relate to the lack of pure white/brightness.

Anyhow, need to think on it a bit....

[Guest]

1 hour ago, SpiritDragon said:

Some important points on rejecting false messengers: D&C 129 teaches about offering to shake hands and determine if it be resurrected soul, the spirit of a just man made perfect,or a premortal or disembodied spirit and how to tell whether a spirit is trying to deceive or is honest. Interestingly, Joseph also taught that hair color could be used as an important clue as on one occasion he explained that a messenger with sandy colored hair was an impostor.

I had often wondered about the D&C 129 statement.  If they idea is that they're trying to deceive us, wouldn't they, now, go ahead and refuse (in order to deceive us)?

Joseph later made a statement that he'd heard people who had "seen angels" who refused the proffered hand and delivered a message.  But he knew these were false messengers nonetheless because of the message they shared.

I am fairly certain that such an experience with a resurrected being would mean we'd feel their hands.  That's fine.  But could that simply be the sign of an earthly/mortal deceiver?

Joseph eventually said that if you pray during such an experience for a confirmation of truth, you would receive it.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Guest

[The Folk Prophet]

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I had often wondered about the D&C 129 statement.  If they idea is that they're trying to deceive us, wouldn't they, now, go ahead and refuse (in order to deceive us)?

Joseph later made a statement that he'd heard people who had "seen angels" who refused the proffered hand and delivered a message.  But he knew these were false messengers nonetheless because of the message they shared.

I am fairly certain that such an experience with a resurrected being would mean we'd feel their hands.  That's fine.  But could that simply be the sign of an earthly/mortal deceiver?

Joseph eventually said that if you pray during such an experience for a confirmation of truth, you would receive it.

This is a part of why I think that scripture's importance must be in principle rather than literal application.

[Traveler]

On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 3:58 PM, The Folk Prophet said:

I think there's a big one perhaps missed in this excellent list.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/52.15-16?lang=eng#p14 (the last 4 words in each verse):

I only point it out now in that it jumped out at me in class too and so I'm mindful of it now:

15 Wherefore he that prayeth, whose spirit is contrite, the same is accepted of me if he obey mine ordinances.

16 He that speaketh, whose spirit is contrite, whose language is meek and edifieth, the same is of God if he obey mine ordinances.

Thank you - It is my personal belief and understanding that obedience to ordinances is more important than understanding doctrine and receiving truth.  Note that we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost by ordinance and by this gift and obedience to this specific ordinance is the means by which all truth is revealed – even more important than scripture??? 

 

The Traveler

[The Folk Prophet]

3 Nephi 2:2 mentions deception in reverse: Meaning it talks about those who begin to disbelieve the miracles and signs they've seen by imagining they were wrought by the power of men or the devil to deceive the believers. By this imagination that the believers have been deceived, they are deceived.

Interestingly the verse mentions hearts 3 times. Here it is in full with bolding:

Imagining up some vain thing in their hearts, that it was wrought by men and by the power of the devil, to lead away and deceive the hearts of the people; and thus did Satan get possession of the hearts of the people again, insomuch that he did blind their eyes and lead them away to believe that the doctrine of Christ was a foolish and a vain thing.

There's also some symmetry in the "vain" idea, they imagine up a vain thing to convince themselves the believers believe a vain thing.

Considerations I have in studying this verse: What does the heart have to do with deception? What does "vain" mean? How does our own imagination work as a tool of the devil?

The preceding verse speaks of hearts as well (they began to be hard in their hearts) (note to self: search for "heard heart" references at some point), and also being blind in their minds.

The verse after (vs 3) speaks of wickedness, abominations, and temptation -- also points that I think are very strongly tied to being deceived (related to the idea of things pleasing to the carnal mind as in the Korihor deception).

Edited June 30, 2017 by The Folk Prophet