Gender neutral prayers?

[SpiritDragon]

So, I recently was at a church meeting where the individual asked to pray addressed the prayer to, "Our dear kind heavenly parent" or possibly "parents" and I was quite taken back thinking that's not how we're taught to address deity. I realize there is some leeway in how we open prayers, but this to me seems wrong. Thoughts?

[NeuroTypical]

Oh absolutely that was wrong.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1997/04/pray-unto-the-father-in-my-name?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-8-praying-to-our-heavenly-father?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/topics/prayer?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2016/10/the-lord-jesus-christ-teaches-us-to-pray?lang=eng

[Midwest LDS]

Agreed @SpiritDragon that would be incorrect and I would have felt uncomfortable too, unless it was a new convert or investigator who might not have known better. The Savior taught us to direct our prayers to our Father in Heaven in the Bible in Mathew 6:9 and in the Book of Mormon in 3 Nephi 18:19. Our prayers should be addressed to God with some variation of Heavenly Father and it should never be gender neutral, especially in this day and age where that seems to be a major struggle everywhere.

[anatess2]

In a religious organization that teaches eternal genders and gender-specific obligations, gender neutrality is out of place.

I don't write to my dad "Dear Parent" even if it is technically accurate because that's not how my dad wants to be addressed.  He wants to be addressed as Dad.  So I write, Dear Dad.  I don't even write Dear Father only because that's not how he wants it either.

[Fether]

3 hours ago, SpiritDragon said:

So, I recently was at a church meeting where the individual asked to pray addressed the prayer to, "Our dear kind heavenly parent" or possibly "parents" and I was quite taken back thinking that's not how we're taught to address deity. I realize there is some leeway in how we open prayers, but this to me seems wrong. Thoughts?

Interesting...

I always find it quite humorous when Ward members take opportunities like a congregational prayer, testimony on fast Sunday or an opportunity to speak at church to push their beliefs on the Ward. There was a man in a Ward I served my mission in that would prayer quite loudly and say things pertaining to the end of times... it felt more like an mini talk in the middle of his prayer xD a few times he chastised the Ward for not giving enough attention to the end of the world.

Or when a member in the same wars got up on fast and testimony meeting and bore testimony on the end of the world and how it will be brought on by muslims.

Or in the Ward next to it, a lady would bear testimony of heavenly mother every month.

Im not sure if this particular occasion fits in to what I described, maybe it was just a slip up of words?

Edited September 18, 2017 by Fether

[SpiritDragon]

3 hours ago, Midwest LDS said:

Agreed @SpiritDragon that would be incorrect and I would have felt uncomfortable too, unless it was a new convert or investigator who might not have known better. The Savior taught us to direct our prayers to our Father in Heaven in the Bible in Mathew 6:9 and in the Book of Mormon in 3 Nephi 18:19. Our prayers should be addressed to God with some variation of Heavenly Father and it should never be gender neutral, especially in this day and age where that seems to be a major struggle everywhere.

This particular member has been a member a long time. He does reject the idea that God is against homosexual unions and promotes the idea that the only thing stopping same sex sealings in the temple is church policy, not doctrine. He is openly in support of being inclusive of ssa in the church - He has a child who has declared their self bisexual. I was extra shocked because the stake presidency was present while this took place. I wondered if they would say something, I think they may have taken him aside afterward, but nothing was publicly stated in regard to it. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by SpiritDragon

[SpiritDragon]

43 minutes ago, Fether said:

Interesting...

I always find it quite humorous when Ward members take opportunities like a congregational prayer, testimony on fast Sunday or an opportunity to speak at church to push their beliefs on the Ward. There was a man in a Ward I served my mission in that would prayer quite loudly and say things pertaining to the end of times... it felt more like an mini talk in the middle of his prayer xD a few times he chastised the Ward for not giving enough attention to the end of the world.

Or when a member in the same wars got up on fast and testimony meeting and bore testimony on the end of the world and how it will be brought on by muslims.

Or in the Ward next to it, a lady would bear testimony of heavenly mother every month.

Im not sure if this particular occasion fits in to what I described, maybe it was just a slip up of words?

There is definitely some agenda pushing going on. 

[SpiritDragon]

3 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Oh absolutely that was wrong.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1997/04/pray-unto-the-father-in-my-name?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-8-praying-to-our-heavenly-father?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/topics/prayer?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2016/10/the-lord-jesus-christ-teaches-us-to-pray?lang=eng

Thanks for the links. Great reading.

2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

In a religious organization that teaches eternal genders and gender-specific obligations, gender neutrality is out of place.

I don't write to my dad "Dear Parent" even if it is technically accurate because that's not how my dad wants to be addressed.  He wants to be addressed as Dad.  So I write, Dear Dad.  I don't even write Dear Father only because that's not how he wants it either.

Agreed. I appreciate your insight. Similar to my own thought - I shudder at the thought of celebrating "parent day" instead of Father's Day and Mother's Day.

[Midwest LDS]

Yeah, since it was obviously agenda based hopefully church leadership will pull him aside and explain how to properly pray privately. I don't quite understand how he could think the church's stand against homosexual behaivor is policy instead of doctrine, denial is a powerful motivator I suppose, but God is clearly our Father. Refusing to aknowledge that, or trying to take away from that with some wishy washy gender neutral pronoun is borderline blasphemous since he obviously knows better.

[Fether]

24 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:

Yeah, since it was obviously agenda based hopefully church leadership will pull him aside and explain how to properly pray privately. 

My mind read your statement like this 

"Yeah, since it was obviously agenda based hopefully church leadership will pull him aside and beat him."

[Midwest LDS]

Not quite that bad, but that kind of stuff does annoy me☺

[Fether]

3 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:

Not quite that bad, but that kind of stuff does annoy me☺

I can a picture 2 large men in suits come storming out of the sacrament preparation room/area and drag him from the podium

 

note: I sometimes wonder if my comments in the forum are read by people investigating the church and don't catch on to my sarcasm...

Edited September 18, 2017 by Fether

[zil]

36 minutes ago, Fether said:

I can a picture 2 large men in suits come storming out of the sacrament preparation room/area and drag him from the podium

That was the 1970s solution.  With modern technology, they've switched to a trap door behind the podium - with the presiding authority controlling the switch, of course.

[Fether]

44 minutes ago, zil said:

That was the 1970s solution.  With modern technology, they've switched to a trap door behind the podium - with the presiding authority controlling the switch, of course.

That's what those buttons do!?!?

[mordorbund]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

That's what those buttons do!?!?

Yup. Podium up/down. Trap door open/close. Autotune on/off.

[Grunt]

4 hours ago, Fether said:

My mind read your statement like this 

"Yeah, since it was obviously agenda based hopefully church leadership will pull him aside and beat him."

I realize Mormons are generally very tolerant and non-judgmental, but in all fairness as a heathen, I realize that sometimes you just need to beat the stupid out of people.

[NeuroTypical]

If only it worked as often as it were tried.  Still, sometimes trying is all we can do.*

 

 

*Disclaimer - don't beat people.

[JoCa]

lol . . .this doesn't surprise me in the least bit. When members of the Church are more swayed by current political mores and cultural doctrine this is bound to happen.

In some ways, I think this is actually good . . .it might wake people up to what is actually occurring to society (and inside the Church); all is not well in Zion.

There was some dude that had a severe mental problem who committed suicide by cop at Georgia Tech this weekend. The dude was either trans or homosexual or wanted to be . . .regardless the guy had some very serious mental problems.  He was President of the local PRIDE chapter.  In the PRIDE's announcement they referred to him as "they".  As in we will never forget what "they" did for us.

Yeah . . .well now unfortunately the guy is dead.  Maybe had we actually had some sanity and not indulged the kid in his mental fantasies and actually got him help rather than encourage his mental delusions (probably influenced by evil spirits), the guy might actually be alive today.

Maybe one day we will wake up to the mess we are creating in society.

I really hate the redefinition of words;  when an article says "he" I don't know if it's an actual male or if it's a female that pretends to be male.

Just read 1984  . . .playbook of what happens to language.

Edited September 19, 2017 by JoCa