Joseph Smith Papers

[Blossom76]

12 minutes ago, zil said:

Needle can answer for himself, but I'm curious why this is insulting.

Doesn't the Catholic church teach that it is the one with apostolic authority?  Don't a great many Christian churches accept each other's baptisms but teach that ours is unacceptable? 

The catholic church doesn't claim to be the only church on the face of the earth that is true (it does claim to be the church Jesus started, and think that allows them to get away with whatever they like), and I'm here because I don't agree with just about everything the Catholic Church teaches.  

Baptism is a very special day for people, to be told that it's not valid is highly insulting.  A lot of christian churches do full emersion baptism, that day changes their life, it brings them closer to Jesus Christ, and then its 'sorry that doesn't count, you have to have it done this way'. People have a very spiritual experience when they are baptised, then they are told that doesn't count as a valid baptism, it is insulting.

Don't misunderstand me if the claims of the LDS church are true then I want to be dunked immediately, but it does put you offside to be told that the most spiritual day of your life doesn't count as a valid baptism.

[Jane_Doe]

2 minutes ago, Blossom76 said:

The catholic church doesn't claim to be the only church on the face of the earth that is true (it does claim to be the church Jesus started, and think that allows them to get away with whatever they like), and I'm here because I don't agree with just about everything the Catholic Church teaches.  

Baptism is a very special day for people, to be told that it's not valid is highly insulting.  A lot of christian churches do full emersion baptism, that day changes their life, it brings them closer to Jesus Christ, and then its 'sorry that doesn't count, you have to have it done this way'. People have a very spiritual experience when they are baptised, then they are told that doesn't count as a valid baptism, it is insulting.

Don't misunderstand me if the claims of the LDS church are true then I want to be dunked immediately, but it does put you offside to be told that the most spiritual day of your life doesn't count as a valid baptism.

Again- the goal isn't to disregard that spiritual day for you.  

[Blossom76]

Just now, Jane_Doe said:

Again- the goal isn't to disregard that spiritual day for you.  

But you can understand how an investigator would view this as an insult though right?

[zil]

13 minutes ago, Blossom76 said:

Baptism is a very special day for people, to be told that it's not valid is highly insulting.  A lot of christian churches do full emersion baptism, that day changes their life, it brings them closer to Jesus Christ, and then its 'sorry that doesn't count, you have to have it done this way'. People have a very spiritual experience when they are baptised, then they are told that doesn't count as a valid baptism, it is insulting.

Don't misunderstand me if the claims of the LDS church are true then I want to be dunked immediately, but it does put you offside to be told that the most spiritual day of your life doesn't count as a valid baptism.

I got all that from your previous posts - you're telling me the what.  I'm asking for the why.  If the why is simply that it's an emotional reaction, then OK.  But if there's more to the why, I'd like to understand it, because as I said, this difference in beliefs about what is right  or true is to be expected (in my mind) and is therefore perfectly rational (in my mind) and therefore not offensive (in my mind).  Obviously your mind is different and I'm just trying to see if you can explain the why of your view.  And if you can't, if it's just a visceral reaction that you feel and cannot explain further, that's OK.

[Jane_Doe]

18 minutes ago, Blossom76 said:

But you can understand how an investigator would view this as an insult though right?

I totally understand that knee-jerk reaction.  But I would also like the conversation to be able to move past the knee-jerk so it can be understood that I DO consider your previous baptism to be important (like the example of my husband's baptism above) and I'm not meaning to disregard it.  

Edited February 11, 2018 by Jane_Doe

[Blossom76]

11 minutes ago, zil said:

I got all that from your previous posts - you're telling me the what.  I'm asking for the why.  If the why is simply that it's an emotional reaction, then OK.  But if there's more to the why, I'd like to understand it, because as I said, this difference in beliefs about what is right  or true is to be expected (in my mind) and is therefore perfectly rational (in my mind) and therefore not offensive (in my mind).  Obviously your mind is different and I'm just trying to see if you can explain the why of your view.  And if you can't, if it's just a visceral reaction that you feel and cannot explain further, that's OK.

I think the why is that it is an emotional reaction of course, but more than that its spiritual, its like being told 'you don't know jesus' when we've been following his teachings our whole lives

[zil]

1 minute ago, Blossom76 said:

I think the why is that it is an emotional reaction of course, but more than that its spiritual, its like being told 'you don't know jesus' when we've been following his teachings our whole lives

Interesting.  Thank you for persisting with me.

[Grunt]

57 minutes ago, Blossom76 said:

Baptism is a very special day for people, to be told that it's not valid is highly insulting.  A lot of christian churches do full emersion baptism, that day changes their life, it brings them closer to Jesus Christ, and then its 'sorry that doesn't count, you have to have it done this way'. People have a very spiritual experience when they are baptised, then they are told that doesn't count as a valid baptism, it is insulting.

Don't misunderstand me if the claims of the LDS church are true then I want to be dunked immediately, but it does put you offside to be told that the most spiritual day of your life doesn't count as a valid baptism.

2

Those aren't our rules.  They're God's.  People often CHOOSE to be insulted when no insult is warranted.

[Blossom76]

7 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Those aren't our rules.  They're God's.  People often CHOOSE to be insulted when no insult is warranted.

Perhaps, but to get to that point one has to accept that the LDS church does in fact speak for God on earth and no other church does. LDS represent 1.6% of the 70% of christians just in the USA.  Wether you like it or not, you are in a minority denomination of Christianity that tells all other denominations that they are wrong and have no authority.  If the LDS church is right, then that's great, but people are going to be naturally defensive over such a claim and some of them (like me) are going to really need to prove to themselves that this is in fact Gods rule.

[Grunt]

Just now, Blossom76 said:

Perhaps, but to get to that point one has to accept that the LDS church does in fact speak for God on earth and no other church does. LDS represent 1.6% of the 70% of christians just in the USA.  Wether you like it or not, you are in a minority denomination of Christianity that tells all other denominations that they are wrong and have no authority.  If the LDS church is right, then that's great, but people are going to be naturally defensive over such a claim and some of them (like me) are going to really need to prove to themselves that this is in fact Gods rule.

Who cares how many Christians there are?  What does that have to do with LDS?  The LDS church is true.  I know this beyond a shadow of a doubt.  You said the Book of Mormon was from God.  If that is so, then I'd suggest you spend a little more time studying the Book of Mormon.  After all, most answers come from there.  If you know that to be of God, then you know Joseph Smith was the Prophet.  If you know Joseph Smith was the Prophet, you know the Church is true.  

Unless, of course, you believe God chose Joseph Smith to receive the Book of Mormon then just left him hanging in the wind and allowed him to make the rest up.  

[Blossom76]

Just now, Grunt said:

Who cares how many Christians there are?  What does that have to do with LDS?  The LDS church is true.  I know this beyond a shadow of a doubt.  You said the Book of Mormon was from God.  If that is so, then I'd suggest you spend a little more time studying the Book of Mormon.  After all, most answers come from there.  If you know that to be of God, then you know Joseph Smith was the Prophet.  If you know Joseph Smith was the Prophet, you know the Church is true.  

Unless, of course, you believe God chose Joseph Smith to receive the Book of Mormon then just left him hanging in the wind and allowed him to make the rest up.  

Nothing you just said here makes anyone feel any less insulted when they are told their baptism is invalid and only the LDS church has the authority to baptise people on earth.

And I'm sorry but knowing the Book of Mormon is of God does not automatically mean I know the entire LDS church is true, its a bit more complicated than that for me, there are many faiths that believe in the Book of Mormon.  Now we are talking about lines of authority that start from Jospeh Smith until today, and they get a bit messy, I'm still working through all that.

[Grunt]

1 minute ago, Blossom76 said:

Nothing you just said here makes anyone feel any less insulted when they are told their baptism is invalid and only the LDS church has the authority to baptise people on earth.

And I'm sorry but knowing the Book of Mormon is of God does not automatically mean I know the entire LDS church is true, its a bit more complicated than that for me, there are many faiths that believe in the Book of Mormon.  Now we are talking about lines of authority that start from Jospeh Smith until today, and they get a bit messy, I'm still working through all that.

People choose to be insulted.  I can't help that.  Personally, I was glad someone told me the path to Exaltation.  

I wasn't aware you were deciding which branch from Joseph Smith was true.  Sorry.  I thought you were talking about ALL Christian sects, the vast majority of whom don't follow the Book of Mormon.  I can't help you with the other JS branches.  Once I received a testimony of LDS, there was no reason for me to study them.  I have too much to learn with the True Church.  They interest me, so perhaps I'll look at their history some day.

[Blossom76]

2 minutes ago, Grunt said:

People choose to be insulted.  I can't help that.  Personally, I was glad someone told me the path to Exaltation.  

It is a very human choice to make though

[Grunt]

1 minute ago, Blossom76 said:

It is a very human choice to make though

No argument there.  It's hard for me at times to be that self-aware.

[askandanswer]

8 hours ago, zil said:

(Apparently I can be quite blunt.) 

In several thesauruses, blunt is a synonym for dull. 

[Jane_Doe]

1 minute ago, askandanswer said:

In several thesauruses, blunt is a antonym for dull. 

Your previous post had a typo.  I fixed it

Edited February 11, 2018 by Jane_Doe

[askandanswer]

7 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

It will do you good to leave the compound!

and it will do the rest of us bad if he does!

[zil]

5 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

In several thesauruses, blunt is a synonym for dull. 

I'm that too.

[askandanswer]

4 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Your previous post had a typo.  I fixed it

hmmm, s y n onym and a n t onym. Does that count as one typo or three?

[Suzie]

@Blossom76 I can understand your point and agree!

[Sunday21]

23 minutes ago, zil said:

I'm that too.

Never! ?

[Blossom76]

10 minutes ago, Suzie said:

@Blossom76 I can understand your point and agree!

Thank you so much for saying so, it really means a lot to me

[askandanswer]

6 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

  But pens...ahhh, pens and ink, yes, I talk about that to everyone that will listen!

There goes the neighborhood - even before it started!

[askandanswer]

6 hours ago, Carborendum said:

You know, that makes me remember the ex-Mormon friend that I have. 

 

5 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I'm just stunned you have any friends....

Conclusive proof that they speak a different language in Texas

[askandanswer]

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

People choose to be insulted.  I can't help that.  Personally, I was glad someone told me the path to Exaltation.  

I wasn't aware you were deciding which branch from Joseph Smith was true.  Sorry.  I thought you were talking about ALL Christian sects, the vast majority of whom don't follow the Book of Mormon.  I can't help you with the other JS branches.  Once I received a testimony of LDS, there was no reason for me to study them.  I have too much to learn with the True Church.  They interest me, so perhaps I'll look at their history some day.

I like your mind @Grunt and the way you think.