zil Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, mirkwood said: Br. Mirkwood's shooting activity Ammo addict, I tell ya! Ammo addict! Sunday21 and mirkwood 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 Well, there is at least one mistake on that list. I started my first talk on open mic night with "Be forewarned, I'm long-winded, my language is at times inappropriate, and my wife says I'm not nearly as funny as I think I am". I felt it only fair to let them know what they were in for. zil, Sunday21 and mirkwood 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 2 hours ago, zil said: I just want to say, if I could build a neighborhood and pick my neighbors, these are the people I would want living in the houses closes to mine (in no particular order, except that I started my list with people who I feel like I understand well and appreciate, but who others are choosing to be offended at rather than getting to know them well enough to appreciate1 - something that is unfortunate for said offendees; and that's part of my point - these are good, solid people who could be a blessing in your life, if you'd let them, but who are no more likely that I am to tolerate getting walked on, or to coddle to one's drama / over-sensitivity to rational commentary): @Vort @Carborendum @NeedleinA @Anddenex @mordorbund @NeuroTypical @Just_A_Guy @Grunt @person0 @MormonGator and @LadyGator @LiterateParakeet (our politics would never agree, but we'd have a weekly meeting with @anatess2 and @NeuroTypical where we'd try each others' pens and ink) @pam @Sunday21 (though our politics would never agree, and I'd have to hide the guns when she comes to visit, and leave them at home when I go to visit) @prisonchaplain (who would make sure we were all remembering to be Christian as well as Mormon) @Jane_Doe (even though she'd probably make me look kinda dumb) @estradling75 (but just so the rest of us could give him a hard time by walking on his lawn) @mirkwood (but maybe several houses down, so he wouldn't have to see me coming and going with my fountain pens) @The Folk Prophet (though we would probably argue a lot before realizing we agreed with each other - it's unfortunate he was driven away from here by a member not willing to work through that) @Traveler (though we'd probably annoy each other quite often) @askandanswer (but only so we could regularly dose his property with Noodler's Bay State Blue) NOTE: If you're not on the list, try not to be offended. It's possible you're a victim of my poor memory. It's also possible I'd add you to the list if I knew you better. It's also possible you wouldn't like living next to me any more than I'd like living next to you. (Apparently I can be quite blunt.) And I seriously doubt my feelings toward / memory of you is something worth getting offended over. 1IMO, this is the best reason to participate in a wide variety of threads, including those about trivial things - it lets you get to know other people's personalities, which makes it easier to appreciate them as humans rather than as posters. (ETA: It also lets other people get to know you.) Robotically Yours, zil So... who is inside the compound? askandanswer and zil 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 18 hours ago, Suzie said: I wish I could quote....everytime I do, my reply for some reason gets inside the quote itself no matter what I do... Try this one...; 1.) Do a quote, then immediately press enter enter enter... then start typing. if that doesn't work do this. 2.) Do a quote, then copy the quote box (not just the contents of the box). Then discard the quoted post and do a Reply instead. Press enter enter enter... then arrow up up up to go back to the first line, then paste the box. Then arrow down down down to go to the bottom... If that doesn't work, then I got nuthin'. Suzie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 2 hours ago, zil said: @LiterateParakeet (our politics would never agree, but we'd have a weekly meeting with @anatess2 and @NeuroTypical where we'd try each others' pens and ink) @pam This is literally the first time I have opened this thread...so I think I'm missing some context here, yikes! But responding to this comment only.... Yes, we have very different political ideas that's fair. But as you said we could have a great time talking about pens and ink! I try not to bring up political topics in person anyway. I figure if I leave it to online then people can CHOOSE whether or not they want to engage. For example, I think my daughter in law would rather die than discuss politics with me. So much so that I have no idea where she stands politically, and that's okay. But pens...ahhh, pens and ink, yes, I talk about that to everyone that will listen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, Blossom76 said: I think the other side of it is, "I have a real concern about something in church history/doctrine/whatever it is that I want to understand or that I am not okay with. I have some facts in front of me saying XYZ, I already know that I am probably going to be attacked for asking my questions/raising concerns so the way I ask is already defensive because previous interactions have shown me it will be". I can't ask the hard questions at church, honestly I think they'd probably ask me to leave if I did or at the bare minimum try their best to avoid me, I have already experienced this, its not nice and I don't want to go through it again. There is a very strong culture in mormonism of not asking questions and being chastised for it or even being called anti-mormon if you do. Is it everyone's experience, probably not, but it is a large majority and needs to be acknowledged. And in all honesty what I am looking for when I see things I find questionable about the church is simply "But I don't have to be okay with this right?" Your ward is weird. Our ward do not do that. I, for one, riddled members of the Church with a quadzillion questions. Another one came from an Evangelical background and riddled members of the Church with a quadzillion questions. But no, WE DON'T DO THIS IN CHURCH! That's not what Sunday School is about! We do this outside of Church - like when missionaries come to visit, I ask them to bring so-and-so with them (the guy who teaches Sunday School who happened to be one of these people who graduated from BYU and know a good deal about how the BOM came about, how the PoGP came about, how the Church came about, the life of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, etc.) then we have the Home Teachers who I would pepper with a quadzillion questions. None of them looked at me funny or rejected my questions. They were very helpful and brought with them more people who know more about X topic to my house (my house is party central...). Then we have our then-Stake President and his wife who are the parents of our then-Bishop and I would take him aside at Church and ask him questions and set a time when we can talk about it. I never bring these things up during Sunday School or Relief Society because those things have a specific purpose and a lesson plan - the very highest purpose of which is to promote faith, not dash it. It's a matter of respect, in my opinion, to listen carefully, ask questions when appropriate to the lesson (aligns with the Member Study guide), and help promote a spiritual environment. I would write down other questions that I feel would detract from the lesson too much and go get anybody - home teachers, stake president, bishop, sunday school teacher, etc. etc. - that may be able to discuss it with me. The cool thing about being Filipino - all I have to do is invite them to a Filipino dinner and they'd be super excited to come. I've had pow-wow discussions on Ex Nihilo versus Pre-Existence, the Great Apostasy, etc. etc. and nobody ever made me feel like I'm being an anti-Mormon or even brushed away my questions. The Mormons that have been instrumental in my journey has always been helpful and returned the respect I gave them. So, I DON'T SEE THIS CULTURE you're talking about of not asking questions. I especially found those who went to BYU as very open to questions and usually have good answers if not, they know who would give me answers. Edited February 10, 2018 by anatess2 zil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said: Yes, we have very different political ideas that's fair. One of my closest friends-a dude I've known for twenty years- is a big Bernie Sanders supporter. He's on FB @LiterateParakeet, so you'd recognize the name. He comments a lot on my political posts. He and I disagree on most things political but he's one of the very few people I'd take a bullet for. So you never know. Edited February 10, 2018 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, MormonGator said: One of my closest friends-a dude I've known for twenty years- is a big Bernie Sanders supporter. He's on FB @LiterateParakeet, so you'd recognize the name. He comments a lot on my political posts. He and I disagree on most things political but he's one of the very few people I'd take a bullet for. So you never know. You know, that makes me remember the ex-Mormon friend that I have. He and I disagree on both religion and politics. But we can at least have a logical discussion where we really get down to the nuts and bolts of what we can actually prove based on actual evidence and quotes vs what we simply surmise based on "smoke". We both end up believing we're right. But at least we know exactly where the limits of our knowledge vs opinion lay. And the most important part is that neither party is getting upset at the other or accusing each other of being ignorant. Edited February 10, 2018 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 22 minutes ago, Carborendum said: You know, that makes me remember the ex-Mormon friend that I have. He and I disagree on both religion and politics. But we can at least have a logical discussion where we really get down to the nuts and bolts of what we can actually prove based on actual evidence and quotes vs what we simply surmise based on "smoke". We both end up believing we're right. But at least we know exactly where the limits of our knowledge vs opinion lay. I'm just stunned you have any friends.... Whoops! Sorry. I thought @mirkwood wrote this. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, MormonGator said: I'm just stunned you have any friends.... Whoops! Sorry. I thought @mirkwood wrote this. My bad. I'm stunned too. But don't worry. He's just a "professional friend." That means I have to pay him to be my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Carborendum said: I'm stunned too. But don't worry. He's just a "professional friend." That means I have to pay him to be my friend. At least you didn't say that you paid "Her" to be your friend. Because I could make 25 jokes about that ,and none would be appropriate for your LDS ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, MormonGator said: At least you didn't say that you paid "Her" to be your friend. Because I could make 25 jokes about that ,and none would be appropriate for your LDS ears. Actually, my wife is getting suspicious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 hour ago, anatess2 said: Your ward is weird. Our ward do not do that. I, for one, riddled members of the Church with a quadzillion questions. Another one came from an Evangelical background and riddled members of the Church with a quadzillion questions. But no, WE DON'T DO THIS IN CHURCH! That's not what Sunday School is about! ... I would triple like this post if I could! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnsonJones Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, zil said: I just want to say, if I could build a neighborhood and pick my neighbors, these are the people I would want living in the houses closes to mine (in no particular order, except that I started my list with people who I feel like I understand well and appreciate, but who others are choosing to be offended at rather than getting to know them well enough to appreciate1 - something that is unfortunate for said offendees; and that's part of my point - these are good, solid people who could be a blessing in your life, if you'd let them, but who are no more likely that I am to tolerate getting walked on, or to coddle to one's drama / over-sensitivity to rational commentary): @Vort @Carborendum @NeedleinA @Anddenex @mordorbund @NeuroTypical @Just_A_Guy @Grunt @person0 @MormonGator and @LadyGator @LiterateParakeet (our politics would never agree, but we'd have a weekly meeting with @anatess2 and @NeuroTypical where we'd try each others' pens and ink) @pam @Sunday21 (though our politics would never agree, and I'd have to hide the guns when she comes to visit, and leave them at home when I go to visit) @prisonchaplain (who would make sure we were all remembering to be Christian as well as Mormon) @Jane_Doe (even though she'd probably make me look kinda dumb) @estradling75 (but just so the rest of us could give him a hard time by walking on his lawn) @mirkwood (but maybe several houses down, so he wouldn't have to see me coming and going with my fountain pens) @The Folk Prophet (though we would probably argue a lot before realizing we agreed with each other - it's unfortunate he was driven away from here by a member not willing to work through that) @Traveler (though we'd probably annoy each other quite often) @askandanswer (but only so we could regularly dose his property with Noodler's Bay State Blue) NOTE: If you're not on the list, try not to be offended. It's possible you're a victim of my poor memory. It's also possible I'd add you to the list if I knew you better. It's also possible you wouldn't like living next to me any more than I'd like living next to you. (Apparently I can be quite blunt.) And I seriously doubt my feelings toward / memory of you is something worth getting offended over. 1IMO, this is the best reason to participate in a wide variety of threads, including those about trivial things - it lets you get to know other people's personalities, which makes it easier to appreciate them as humans rather than as posters. (ETA: It also lets other people get to know you.) Robotically Yours, zil Hmmm...not on the list... 4 hours ago, zil said: (except by arrogant jerks who hate everyone, of which there are too many, but they generally get weeded out quickly). Ah...that explains it... You must have been one of my students at some point. Sorry, I grade on a Bell curve, especially if I'm forced to teach an intro to History class instead of the TAs...normally in a foul mood if that were to happen, so that probably accounts for it. Everyone except for that one A+, that one A, and that one A- all feel that I'm a being a jerk about it, but at least I'm a balanced jerk...everyone gets treated the same, and all have the same chance on the tests. If there ever is a time where two individuals actually tie in the curve at the top, I'd hand out two A+ grades for once... Edit: OR, it could be for other reasons, obviously... Edited February 10, 2018 by JohnsonJones Hopefully @zil sees this post in the a joking manner it was written as zil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said: Hmmm...not on the list... Ah...that explains it... You must have been one of my students at some point. Sorry, I grade on a Bell curve, especially if I'm forced to teach an intro to History class instead of the TAs...normally in a foul mood if that were to happen, so that probably accounts for it. Everyone except for that one A+, that one A, and that one A- all feel that I'm a being a jerk about it, but at least I'm a balanced jerk...everyone gets treated the same, and all have the same chance on the tests. If there ever is a time where two individuals actually tie in the curve at the top, I'd hand out two A+ grades for once... Edit: OR, it could be otherwise... JJ, if you were my neighbor, all those other folks would die of old age before you finish telling me how your move-in day went... JohnsonJones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom76 Posted February 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, Blossom76 said: @NeedleinA Perhaps it would do you some good to see it from the investigators point of view? We as investigators are told Your baptism is invalid - only the LDS church have the authority to baptise on the earth We are the only true and living church on the face of the earth - your church you belong to now and every other church on earth is wrong Big claims, very big claims, and also if you think about it from the investigators point of view - highly insulting claims. The church can't make claims like this and expect people not to question/criticise those claims and that authority and then ask for proof. It is also not logical for members to expect investigators not to ask these questions and raise concerns and criticisms. The LDS church insulted every single church on the face of the earth at the very beginning of its existence and it continues to do so by holding those claims, which is fine, if it is true and can be proven. I shouldn't nor should anyone else be treated with unkindness for seeking said proof. @NeedleinA Actually the above issue is what I think really needs to be acknowledged most of all, which you must have missed, even though I tagged you in it, I'd really appreciate your reply to it if you can find the time please. and I can't help what other members tell me, both on this site and at church, to me it does seem that there is a big majority of members who feel they can't raise their concerns, that is my experience. And I'm not asking 'loaded questions' I'm asking my questions, real questions that I want answered, and weather or not I agree or disagree with the answers given that's ok, I am allowed to have my own thoughts after all, that does not make me a bad person or an unfaithful person. Edited February 10, 2018 by Blossom76 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom76 Posted February 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, NeedleinA said: If the only proof that can be provided is her own personal experience plus "many, many, many" other private messages, while sad, this would fall extremely short of some number far greater than 8 million opinions corroborating her claim. Can Blossom76 rightfully claim she and others have felt this way before - sure, absolutely - but to accept at face value the "large majority" claim without valid proof is foolish. If she can't prove that the large majority exists, then her claim is unfounded and therefore either unfairly or ignorantly stated. And isn't this the entire basis of finding out if the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith and the entire church is true, personal experience and revelation from the Holy Ghost? I don't want to demish that experience because I myself have had what I believe to be an answer from the Holy Ghost about the BoM, but as powerful as I found that experience, that is all it is - my private belief - not proof the LDS church is the only true and living church on the face of the earth. And the LDS church only makes up a very small slice of the pie in christianity . As at 2015 in USA alone the percentage of people who are christian is 70.6% out of that 70.6% only 1.6% of those christians belong to the LDS faith. So going by your theory accepting the LDS church is true on face value is, well how did you put it? Foolish. So can you and other LDS members claim to be the 'large majority'? Absolutely not. So then does that make your claims of the church being true 'unfounded and therefore either unfairly or ignorantly stated?' Edited February 10, 2018 by Blossom76 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 5 hours ago, zil said: @Jane_Doe (even though she'd probably make me look kinda dumb) What??... I'm SO confused right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 18 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: What??... I'm SO confused right now? Aren't you getting a PhD right now? (Or is my memory off?) Aren't you the one who finds Isaiah easy to understand? (I didn't mean you'd do that deliberately, I meant that's how I'd feel.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 minute ago, zil said: Aren't you getting a PhD right now? (Or is my memory off?) Aren't you the one who finds Isaiah easy to understand? (I didn't mean you'd do that deliberately, I meant that's how I'd feel.) Well yeah. I'm also the person who looses her keys twice a week, can't remember anything, doesn't know remotely when to call it quits, and can't apply my own makeup (dog falmit complicated stuff!). We all have our gifts, some one, others another. zil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 23 hours ago, Blossom76 said: Your baptism is invalid - only the LDS church have the authority to baptise on the earth We are the only true and living church on the face of the earth - your church you belong to now and every other church on earth is wrong Big claims, very big claims, and also if you think about it from the investigators point of view - highly insulting claims. ... Needle can answer for himself, but I'm curious why this is insulting. Doesn't the Catholic church teach that it is the one with apostolic authority? Don't a great many Christian churches accept each other's baptisms but teach that ours is unacceptable? Don't a great many of them consider us a cult or heretical or both? I don't find this insulting. Indeed, it seems perfectly rational for people who teach differently than we do to consider us wrong in some way or other. So I don't understand why other churches (Christian or not) wouldn't consider it perfectly rational for us to think they're wrong in some fashion or other. When we disagree, one of us must be wrong somehow, unless we're all wrong, or it's somehow possible for diametrically opposed views to be right at the same time (seems improbable)... I'm not trying to find fault here or dismiss your feelings, I just truly don't understand why it's a problem and if you can explain why, I'd be interested (even if I don't see it the same way (as should already be obvious)). Vort and person0 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedleinA Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 23 hours ago, Blossom76 said: @NeedleinA Perhaps it would do you some good to see it from the investigators point of view? We as investigators are told Your baptism is invalid - only the LDS church have the authority to baptise on the earth We are the only true and living church on the face of the earth - your church you belong to now and every other church on earth is wrong Big claims, very big claims, and also if you think about it from the investigators point of view - highly insulting claims. The church can't make claims like this and expect people not to question/criticise those claims and that authority and then ask for proof. It is also not logical for members to expect investigators not to ask these questions and raise concerns and criticisms. The LDS church insulted every single church on the face of the earth at the very beginning of its existence and it continues to do so by holding those claims, which is fine, if it is true and can be proven. I shouldn't nor should anyone else be treated with unkindness for seeking said proof. 1 hour ago, Blossom76 said: @NeedleinA Actually the above issue is what I think really needs to be acknowledged most of all, which you must have missed, even though I tagged you in it, I'd really appreciate your reply to it if you can find the time please. @Blossom76, I read your post previously but viewed it as a statement only. Is there a specific question in there you had hoped I would respond to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom76 Posted February 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, NeedleinA said: @Blossom76, I read your post previously but viewed it as a statement only. Is there a specific question in there you had hoped I would respond to? I'd just like your acknowledgement that this is how. lot of investigators feel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) . Edited February 10, 2018 by Jane_Doe Grunt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted February 10, 2018 Report Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 23 hours ago, Blossom76 said: @NeedleinA Perhaps it would do you some good to see it from the investigators point of view? Responding to this just as me. I'm not an investigator, but I am married to one (in a way), and all of my friends are non-LDS too. 23 hours ago, Blossom76 said: @NeedleinAYour baptism is invalid - only the LDS church have the authority to baptise on the earth @Blossom76, your previous baptism is IMPORTANT. Super important. Don't ever think otherwise. It's important because it was an important milestone in your personal walk with Christ. No, it was not done with authority and that needs to be rectified, but it is STILL IMPORTANT as a milestone in your life. Heck, I would say my husband's Evangelical baptism was on of the most impactful days in my life, simply because how it changed him into the man I would eventually marry. Yes, I would love to see him baptized by one in authority and enter formally into a covenant with God-- that would thrill me to pieces. But even if/when that happens his original Evangelical baptism is still going to be a super important day in both our lives. 6 minutes ago, Blossom76 said: I'd just like your acknowledgement that this is how. lot of investigators feel Yes, I can understand how you feel. It would also be nice to be understood how I'm not meaning to attack you. Honestly it really hurts my feelings when you say things that imply I don't think you baptism wasn't important-- cause I really really do. And I would love the opportunity to tell you that in peace. Edited February 10, 2018 by Jane_Doe Blossom76 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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