Are animals damned?

[The Folk Prophet]

47 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

And I already showed earlier that the meaning of this scripture is only understood by reading all the scriptures around it.

And I already showed earlier how the meaning of your scripture can easily be understood in the context of the gospel and the scriptures I posted. You want to ignore all that and stick with your childish, "Show me a scripture that proves it", big-baby approach to it then that's your prerogative. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously.
You didn't address my post. You blew it off. I have plainly laid out how your scripture  does not "defines" damnation. If the best you can come up with is that I need a scripture to prove it then I throw the same back at you. Show me a scripture that proves that when the scriptures use the word "is", it means it's the end-all definition of that thing and there can be no other meaning or understanding behind it. Go ahead. Show me a scripture the proves that.

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, mordorbund said:

So.... salvation through damnation?

More problems...

Salvation is the opposite of damnation. One can either have salvation on the one hand or damnation on the other hand. One cannot have both at the same time- that is a contradiction.

 

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

And I already showed earlier how the meaning of your scripture can easily be understood in the context of the gospel and the scriptures I posted. You want to ignore all that and stick with your childish, "Show me a scripture that proves it", big-baby approach to it then that's your prerogative. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously.
You didn't address my post. You blew it off. I have plainly laid out how your scripture  does not "defines" damnation. If the best you can come up with is that I need a scripture to prove it then I throw the same back at you. Show me a scripture that proves that when the scriptures use the word "is", it means it's the end-all definition of that thing and there can be no other meaning or understanding behind it. Go ahead. Show me a scripture the proves that.

I provided a scripture already. What I have failed to see from you is a scripture that goes sonething along the lines of- "And thus we see that his damnation in the Fathers mansions was just, having been damned to heaven".

[The Folk Prophet]

11 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

"And thus we see that his damnation in the Fathers mansions was just, having been damned to heaven".

What..............the.........crap?

[Rob Osborn]

13 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

What..............the.........crap?

Find me a scripture that kind of follows something along those lines. You have to actually connect the word "damned" or "damnation" with being saved in heaven.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Rob Osborn

[mordorbund]

On 3/14/2018 at 11:14 AM, Rob Osborn said:

 

D&C 132 is easily explained in that if one enters into and makes covenants and then not abide in that covenant then he gets damned after he is dead (condemned to hell) until the day of his or her redemption. It even says that.

Hell is a literal place where the wicked are.

 

On 3/15/2018 at 10:03 AM, Rob Osborn said:

There is a fatal flaw though- its what I have been trying to explain. It largely comes from a basic yet simple misunderstanding of a couple of scriptures. The first one (even the encyclopedia you linked mentiins it) is in D&C 132:4. It reads-

4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.

This has been understood to mean that all those who fail to enter into eternal marriage will be damned. Its from this scripture that changed Mormon definition of the word damned. But its wrong, fatally wrong. Thats not what it is saying at all. It requires reading the surrounding verses to properly understand it. Here are the two following verses-

            5 For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.
            6 And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fulness of my glory; and he that receiveth a fulness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God.

Ah, now it makes sense. It says here that if one enters into the law, receives that fulness, but then abides not and breaks the law at that point he is damned. What does this mean? It means that he will be temporarily condemned to hell at death. How do we know this? By reading further into the chapter, here-

26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.

It says here that if one enters into the new and everlasting marriage covenant and then committ any sin under that covenant, as long as it isnt murder (because at this point it becomes unpardonable) they shall still enter into their exaltation but before they do they will be delivered into hell after tgey die and stay there until the day of their redemption. Thus, to be damned, as explained in this chapter, means to be condemned to hell. It doesnt mean failing to enter into the eternal marriage covenant. 

I once did a study and wrote a paper on it concerning every single scripture that mentions damned, damnation. What I found is that in every single case it alwsys is used in the context of condemnation to hell. This is before my own understanding changed. But, it did indeed cause me to change my understanding. And, its only when you apply this definition that the scriptures truly unlock their mysteries and opens up and makes sense. So, why cant we as Mormons discard the faulty understanding of the word? Because to do so changes everything!

 

You've explained how D&C 132 fits in with your model of damnation. Can you see that D&C 132 also fits in with the standard LDS model of damnation? Namely, that verse 4 calls out that if you reject eternal marriage then you are damned. It is like baptism in that respect ("he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned"), yet we know that there are still other kingdoms of glory that can be inherited - including the telestial (who are still "heirs of salvation"). The previous section (131) seems to be teaching exactly that (without using the word damned). 

Verse 26 is interpreted differently for us because of that clause "and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise". Without that clause, it's extremely dangerous doctrine to teach that if you're married your salvation is assured (I've heard people teach that "anything goes" under the marriage covenant, but I don't think this was what they were talking about). Marriage as the path to certain salvation is frighteningly similar to the "few stripes" doctrine that Nephi expressly warns against. With that clause, it becomes an echo of section 131's statement on the more sure word of prophecy.

I don't intend for this to convince you. But I know there are lurkers who read these threads and may not be as familiar with the standard LDS interpretation. So I'm providing this primarily so they can see that (your accusation notwithstanding) there are scriptures to support the standard model of damnation. And secondarily, hopefully so you can see that these scriptures are consistent with that understanding.

[Rob Osborn]

1 hour ago, mordorbund said:

 

You've explained how D&C 132 fits in with your model of damnation. Can you see that D&C 132 also fits in with the standard LDS model of damnation? Namely, that verse 4 calls out that if you reject eternal marriage then you are damned. It is like baptism in that respect ("he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned"), yet we know that there are still other kingdoms of glory that can be inherited - including the telestial (who are still "heirs of salvation"). The previous section (131) seems to be teaching exactly that (without using the word damned). 

Verse 26 is interpreted differently for us because of that clause "and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise". Without that clause, it's extremely dangerous doctrine to teach that if you're married your salvation is assured (I've heard people teach that "anything goes" under the marriage covenant, but I don't think this was what they were talking about). Marriage as the path to certain salvation is frighteningly similar to the "few stripes" doctrine that Nephi expressly warns against. With that clause, it becomes an echo of section 131's statement on the more sure word of prophecy.

I don't intend for this to convince you. But I know there are lurkers who read these threads and may not be as familiar with the standard LDS interpretation. So I'm providing this primarily so they can see that (your accusation notwithstanding) there are scriptures to support the standard model of damnation. And secondarily, hopefully so you can see that these scriptures are consistent with that understanding.

Verse 4 is fully understood by reading the next two verses. It doesnt mean you are damned if you choose not to enter into eternal marriage. It means you are damned if you do enter into eternal marriage and then break those covenants or are disobedient within that covenant.

"5 For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.
            6 And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fulness of my glory; and he that receiveth a fulness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God."

This is how it must be understood. One has to enter into that covenant, receive that blessing, and then reject it in order to be damned. One cannot be damned here without entering into the covenant first. That is precisely why in verse 26 it speaks about not honoring that eternal marriage covenant leads to the damnation spojen of. And what is the damnation? Its being delivered up to Satan in hell after death and remaining there until the day of redemption. Here-

"26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God." 

To be "destroyed in the flesh" means to physically die. So then, at death they are then delivered unto the buffetings of Satan. That can only occur in hell as Satan isnt in paradise to torment them. Thus the fulfillment of being "damned" to hell because they werent obedient to their covenant. This is a temporary damnation. There is an eternal damnation also associated with the marriage covenant which consigns one to permanent hell as they are not forgiven either in or out of the world-

 

27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.

[mordorbund]

1 hour ago, Rob Osborn said:

Verse 4 is fully understood by reading the next two verses. It doesnt mean you are damned if you choose not to enter into eternal marriage. It means you are damned if you do enter into eternal marriage and then break those covenants or are disobedient within that covenant.

"5 For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.
            6 And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fulness of my glory; and he that receiveth a fulness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God."

This is how it must be understood. One has to enter into that covenant, receive that blessing, and then reject it in order to be damned. One cannot be damned here without entering into the covenant first. That is precisely why in verse 26 it speaks about not honoring that eternal marriage covenant leads to the damnation spojen of. And what is the damnation? Its being delivered up to Satan in hell after death and remaining there until the day of redemption. Here-

"26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God." 

To be "destroyed in the flesh" means to physically die. So then, at death they are then delivered unto the buffetings of Satan. That can only occur in hell as Satan isnt in paradise to torment them. Thus the fulfillment of being "damned" to hell because they werent obedient to their covenant. This is a temporary damnation. There is an eternal damnation also associated with the marriage covenant which consigns one to permanent hell as they are not forgiven either in or out of the world-

 

27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.

Ahem.

3 hours ago, mordorbund said:

 

You've explained how D&C 132 fits in with your model of damnation. Can you see that D&C 132 also fits in with the standard LDS model of damnation? Namely, that verse 4 [especially when combined with 131:1-4] calls out that if you reject eternal marriage then you are damned.

 

[Rob Osborn]

4 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

Can you see that D&C 132 also fits in with the standard LDS model of damnation?

No, its a misunderstanding and misapplication of doctrine. If these are the scriptures that define our religion's unique definition of damnation then I am really let down. 

[wenglund]

10 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

No, its a misunderstanding and misapplication of doctrine. If these are the scriptures that define our religion's unique definition of damnation then I am really let down. 

In terms of your understanding of the scriptures:

Will unrepentant sin stop spiritual progression to one degree or another and temporarily or otherwise?

Will doing evil stop spiritual progression to one degree or another and temporarily or otherwise? 

When people resist the ordinances of God,  is their spiritual progression stopped to one degree or another and temporarily or otherwise?

Will a lack of humility and failing to become as a little child stop spiritual progression to one degree or another and temporarily or otherwise?

Do you agree with Mt 23:14 that there are varying degrees of damnation? And, if so, what difference us there between the degrees of damnation?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited March 20, 2018 by wenglund

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, wenglund said:

In terms of your understanding of the scriptures:

Will unrepentant sin stop spiritual progression to one degree or another and temporarily or otherwise?

Will doing evil stop spiritual progression to one degree or another and temporarily or otherwise? 

When people resist the ordinances of God,  is their spiritual progression stopped to one degree or another and temporarily or otherwise?

Will a lack of humility and failing to become as a little child stop spiritual progression to one degree or another and temporarily or otherwise?

Do you agree with Mt 23:14 that there are varying degrees of damnation? And, if so, what difference us there between the degrees of damnation?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

You see, Im suspect of that definition because even the spirits in prison can repent and progress from that state and place and eventually reap salvation. So, even spirit prison (hell) is a place where God places people for advancing. Even people who are dead in sin on earth are in that same stupor of not really progressing. But, we dont call them people in a state of damnation. Perhaps they may be damned at death if they continue but slowing down of ones eternal progression is not the definition of damnation.

The scripture you linked-

"14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."

This can only be understood in the traditional way. Its not speaking of kingdoms of glory as many LDS wrongly assume. The proper definition of "damnation" is-

"The act of sending someone to hell or the state of being in hell: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/damnation

Thus, the "greater damnation" is one of duration. We know from latter day revelation that Christ will punish sinners to hell for different durations before he redeems them from there. Thus, someone who sins greater will receive a longer sentence in hell (greater damnation). That is what is meant by the scripture posted. Im going to send you a link of a paper that shows how the early saints, especially Joseph Smith and his apostles used the word in his day. It speaks of a dichotomy of the saved and the damned and how protestant understanding of their day shaped their beliefs. Whats interesting there is that the Book of Mormon was written in that same dichotomy- thats how the Lord wanted damnation defined- being sentenced to hell. Whereas I dont quite believe where this author eventually heads is correct with understanding (he basically ends up insinuating that the prophet Joseph Smith had an incorrect mindset in translating the BoM) I do believe he nails down quite well how the words damned and damnation are and were supposed to mean in interpreting scripture. It wasnt until after his death and many years later that the new definitions of damnation crept into the church to allow for a heaven of damnation. Here-

https://byustudies.byu.edu/content/saved-or-damned-tracing-persistent-protestantism-early-mormon-thought

[wenglund]

2 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

You see, Im suspect of that definition because even the spirits in prison can repent and progress from that state and place and eventually reap salvation. So, even spirit prison (hell) is a place where God places people for advancing. Even people who are dead in sin on earth are in that same stupor of not really progressing. But, we dont call them people in a state of damnation. Perhaps they may be damned at death if they continue but slowing down of ones eternal progression is not the definition of damnation.

The scripture you linked-

"14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."

This can only be understood in the traditional way. Its not speaking of kingdoms of glory as many LDS wrongly assume. The proper definition of "damnation" is-

"The act of sending someone to hell or the state of being in hell: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/damnation

Thus, the "greater damnation" is one of duration. We know from latter day revelation that Christ will punish sinners to hell for different durations before he redeems them from there. Thus, someone who sins greater will receive a longer sentence in hell (greater damnation). That is what is meant by the scripture posted. Im going to send you a link of a paper that shows how the early saints, especially Joseph Smith and his apostles used the word in his day. It speaks of a dichotomy of the saved and the damned and how protestant understanding of their day shaped their beliefs. Whats interesting there is that the Book of Mormon was written in that same dichotomy- thats how the Lord wanted damnation defined- being sentenced to hell. Whereas I dont quite believe where this author eventually heads is correct with understanding (he basically ends up insinuating that the prophet Joseph Smith had an incorrect mindset in translating the BoM) I do believe he nails down quite well how the words damned and damnation are and were supposed to mean in interpreting scripture. It wasnt until after his death and many years later that the new definitions of damnation crept into the church to allow for a heaven of damnation. Here-

https://byustudies.byu.edu/content/saved-or-damned-tracing-persistent-protestantism-early-mormon-thought

This answered one of the five questions. Will you be answering the other 4?

As for your answer to the 5th question, could you provide a scripture that indicates that "greater damnation" refers to duration rather than something else?

There is no point in you sending me a link to what the prophets and apostles said since you seem only to accept scriptures--at least when you are challenged on your views. Best to keep things consistent.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

2 hours ago, changed said:

 

Allow for diversity - but do not segregate due to diversity.  I think we are all happy to spend time outside, to be surrounded by birds, plants, all levels of life - to be together with all of it, rather than segregating different life forms into different spheres.  

Diversity does not bother me - I love diversity - segregation bothers me.  Segregation into different kingdoms, calling some more glorious than others - is a flower more glorious, or is a giant redwood?  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I would never call one "better" or "more glorious" than the other.  rating and ranking each life to a degree of glory does not sound like perfection/heaven to me... I would be happiest in a place where everything was equally loved and appreciated.

You may not realize it, but your post is filled with segregating classifications--inside vs outside, birds verses plants, diversity vs segregation, flowers vs redwood trees. There can't be diversity without segregating into classifications..

As for hierarchical segregation, our daily lives are filled with priorities, p;references, and rankings. It factors into what foods we eat, whether to smoke or consume controlled substances or not, where we shop, what clothes we wear, the friends we are closer with, the person we marry, the religious faith we belong to, items we purchase, which doctor to use, good vs evil, science vs non-science, art vs garbage, etc.

Interestingly, The difference between the Left and Right isn't in eliminating these hierarchical segregating choices, but who gets to make them--the government or the individual.

In terms of glory and honor and authority, we make numerous life decisions on thisbasis--i.e. i.e. who will receive awards at various ceremonies, whose faces and names are placed on the cover of magazines, who we will allow to perform operations on us, who we permit to give us speeding tickets or represent us in government, and on and on.

Our lives are so full of segregation that we often take it for granted.

Now, are you against licensing doctors and lawyers and teachers and engineers, etc. Or do you prefer everyone being together and being called a doctor or lawyer or teacher or engineer whether they qualify and attained the necessary training or not? If you prefer the former, then you are in favor of hierarchical segregation.

Do you believe people should only be paid if they do the agreed-upon work, or do you believe everyone should get paid regardless? If you prefer the former, then you are in favor of hierarchical segregation?

Do you believe that everyone should be given advanced degrees with the highest honors regardless of their scholastic performance, including those who dropped out of school? If not, then you are in favor of hierarchical segregation.

Can anyone who wants to live in your home regardless?

I could go on and on. What I have found is that the people who are most vocal for equality and open boarders and share and share alike, particularly socialists, are typically the least that way in their private lives--present company possibly excluded.  

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[The Folk Prophet]

4 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

This can only be understood in the traditional way. Its not speaking of kingdoms of glory as many all LDS, except a few nutters, wrongly assume know. 

Fixed it.

[The Folk Prophet]

4 hours ago, changed said:

I actually believe bringing children into the world is a transgression, because spirits chose to come to earth without prior experience - without knowledge - without full agency, so in essence, bringing a child into the world can only be done through transgression, by fallen human beings.  ... a necessary step, but one that can only be done through a transgression.  

 

I can safely say, without reservation, that this is the weirdest "LDS" belief I have ever read.

[The Folk Prophet]

4 hours ago, changed said:

Each snowflake, each leaf on every tree,...

 

4 hours ago, changed said:

Allow for diversity - but do not segregate due to diversity.ace where everything was equally loved and appreciated.

So...you don't think the snowflakes should be segregated from the, say...palm leaves?

'cause I gotta say....that ain't gonna work out so well for one or the other.

Edited March 20, 2018 by The Folk Prophet

[person0]

4 hours ago, changed said:

I actually believe bringing children into the world is a transgression, because spirits chose to come to earth without prior experience - without knowledge - without full agency, so in essence, bringing a child into the world can only be done through transgression, by fallen human beings.  ... a necessary step, but one that can only be done through a transgression.  

 

I think I am agreeing that this is a highly unusual belief.  Either that, or what you intended to say is nowhere near what actually ended up being written.  Either way, you may want to either validate or clarify your perspective here.

[The Folk Prophet]

I'll never understand the mindset of those who make up philosophies that are not taught by the brethren. 

[Rob Osborn]

7 hours ago, wenglund said:

As for your answer to the 5th question, could you provide a scripture that indicates that "greater damnation" refers to duration rather than something else?

Sure. 

85 These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work.

106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work; (D&C 76:85,106)

99 And after this another angel shall sound, which is the second trump; and then cometh the redemption of those who are Christ’s at his coming; who have received their part in that prison which is prepared for them, that they might receive the gospel, and be judged according to men in the flesh.
            100 And again, another trump shall sound, which is the third trump; and then come the spirits of men who are to be judged, and are found under condemnation;
            101 And these are the rest of the dead; and they live not again until the thousand years are ended, neither again, until the end of the earth. (D&C 88:99-101)

 

[Rob Osborn]

12 hours ago, wenglund said:

Will unrepentant sin stop spiritual progression to one degree or another and temporarily or otherwise?

Will doing evil stop spiritual progression to one degree or another and temporarily or otherwise? 

When people resist the ordinances of God,  is their spiritual progression stopped to one degree or another and temporarily or otherwise?

Will a lack of humility and failing to become as a little child stop spiritual progression to one degree or another and temporarily or otherwise?

All sin slows our progression down. Because we are sinners and not perfect thats hapoening all the time all around us. This doesnt mean were all in varying states of damnation.

Anything short of perfection in all things slows us down to some degree. That even happens to the prophets- they arent perfect either. That doesnt mean they are in a stage of damnation even if their sins are ever so slight.

[Rob Osborn]

5 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Fixed it.

Perhaps you are ready to show all your scriptures showing how God saves people from hell and into damnation?

[person0]

18 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Perhaps you are ready to show all your scriptures showing how God saves people from hell and into damnation?

Quote

And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.

(D&C 76:112)

As I'm writing this, I wonder why, because I already know you disagree with the interpretation.  Anyway, here's a qualifier:

Quote

Damnation 

See also Death, Spiritual; Devil; Hell; Sons of Perdition

The state of being stopped in one’s progress and denied access to the presence of God and His glory. Damnation exists in varying degrees. All who do not obtain the fulness of celestial exaltation will to some degree be limited in their progress and privileges, and they will be damned to that extent.

(Guide to the Scriptures)

Seems internally consistent with how the Church sees it.  If you ignore these official LDS sources, then there's not much anyone can do here.

[Rob Osborn]

9 minutes ago, person0 said:

As I'm writing this, I wonder why, because I already know you disagree with the interpretation.  Anyway, here's a qualifier:

Seems internally consistent with how the Church sees it.  If you ignore these official LDS sources, then there's not much anyone can do here.

So, perhaps you could find me the scripture where it states the person who is saved into celestial glory, but isnt married, is then denied access to the presence of God and his glory?

[Rob Osborn]

19 minutes ago, person0 said:

...The state of being stopped in one’s progress and denied access to the presence of God and His glory. (Guide to the Scriptures)

Hum...cant be the celestial as all the celestial-

"56 They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory...

 62 These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.."(D&C 76:56,62)

Guess that definition in the Guide to The Scriptures is wrong.

[wenglund]

1 hour ago, Rob Osborn said:

Sure. 

85 These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work.

106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work; (D&C 76:85,106)

99 And after this another angel shall sound, which is the second trump; and then cometh the redemption of those who are Christ’s at his coming; who have received their part in that prison which is prepared for them, that they might receive the gospel, and be judged according to men in the flesh.
            100 And again, another trump shall sound, which is the third trump; and then come the spirits of men who are to be judged, and are found under condemnation;
            101 And these are the rest of the dead; and they live not again until the thousand years are ended, neither again, until the end of the earth. (D&C 88:99-101)

 

I didn't see the words "greater damnation" anywhere in that passage, nor did I see any indication that the passages was clarifying the meaning of "greater damnation" in terms of duration, and this to the exclusion of other types of rankings.

Care to try again? I will continue asking, along with noting your lack of success in producing a single scripture, since I know how much you love that kind of thing.

Thanks, -Wade Englund