Religious vs cultural Mormonism

[Vort]

7 minutes ago, Lee said:

46 minutes ago, Vort said:

My Utah relatives and friends have often complained about those in their ward whose outside-the-Church-walls life flies in the face of their covenants, yet they proclaim themselves Mormon. You simply don't see very much of this in The Mission Field® -- or at least you don't see it in as high a concentration.

So if those relatives and friends weren't in Utah then they wouldn't say they were Mormons? Or do you think they would be better Mormons if they didn't live in Utah ?

I think you misread me. My Utah friends and relatives would say there were Mormons in any case, regardless of where they lived. They were complaining about the hypocrisy they perceived among others, not telling me about their own actions.

[zil]

42 minutes ago, Lee said:

That is why I assumed that it is easier to be a Mormon in Utah then anywhere else. 

Resistance either breaks you or builds you.  In Utah there are so many Mormons at so many levels of faith and activity that you can find an in crowd with no resistance at whatever level you prefer, and even move between levels fairly easily.  There's not a lot to force you to choose firmly whether you're in or out.  Outside high-density Zion, there are only two crowds, the "all in" and the "all out" crowds.  You're pretty much forced to pick one because there's nothing in between.

Like @wenglund's, my friends knew my standards and didn't try to get me to go against them.  And I knew what it would mean to act contrary to those standards - they wouldn't just judge me negatively (even though they didn't share my standards), they would judge the Church, my family, and all other Mormons negatively.  And they would then see it as open season to try to get me to go further against my standards.  The costs were high in either direction.

Edited April 19, 2018 by zil

[Lee]

24 minutes ago, zil said:

Resistance either breaks you or builds you.  In Utah there are so many Mormons at so many levels of faith and activity that you can find an in crowd with no resistance at whatever level you prefer, and even move between levels fairly easily.  There's not a lot to force you to choose firmly whether you're in or out.  Outside high-density Zion, there are only two crowds, the "all in" and the "all out" crowds.  You're pretty much forced to pick one because there's nothing in between.

 

I disagree there will definitely be people who you think are all in who are only half in. Anyway what really is wrong with someone who has faith in the gospel but is not living up to those standards not being all out? When I was in Utah a year before I went to college I was half in, I went to church, sometimes took the sacrament, participated in family home evening with my parents etc, but I was breaking almost all the rules. When I went to college I was all out and that is worse than being half in, in my opinion anyway.  

[zil]

3 minutes ago, Lee said:

I disagree there will definitely be people who you think are all in who are only half in. ....  

I didn't figure I needed footnotes and caveats.  It's a general observation from my experience and apparently other posters have had similar experiences.  Of course there will be exceptions to any generalization, and it should go without saying that different regions and generations will have variations on the generalization.

3 minutes ago, Lee said:

...Anyway what really is wrong with someone who has faith in the gospel but is not living up to those standards not being all out? When I was in Utah a year before I went to college I was half in, I went to church, sometimes took the sacrament, participated in family home evening with my parents etc, but I was breaking almost all the rules. When I went to college I was all out and that is worse than being half in, in my opinion anyway.  

I don't think I suggested what is or is not good, I simply described the situation I observed.  That extremes tended to exist in my experience does not mean that I think the "all out" extreme is somehow better than the "half in" position, it only means that's what I observed.

[Lee]

4 minutes ago, zil said:

I don't think I suggested what is or is not good, I simply described the situation I observed.  That extremes tended to exist in my experience does not mean that I think the "all out" extreme is somehow better than the "half in" position, it only means that's what I observed.

So you agree with me. Great ! 

[JohnsonJones]

10 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Maybe you should have compared the Utah Mormon @The Folk Prophet and the not-in-Utah Mormon @Vort.

Oh....wait.....

You know...I've never gotten the green jello "joke". I hear it all the time, but I don't know that I've ever had green jello at a church activity in my Utah Mormon life. Seems like it must be hold-over from the 50s or something. I can't, honestly, recall the last time Jello was served at a ward function at all. I'm sure it is in places...but.... And it's not like I've been in the same ward my whole life. I've changed locations a lot. Salt Lake Wards, Cedar City Wards, Utah Valley wards, etc., etc...

The problem with dated jokes, of course, is they're not funny any more.

It's largely a stereotype...though I DO enjoy green jello, especially with chopped up pears in it.

Jello and the Mormonism stereotype

[Vort]

10 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

It's largely a stereotype...though I DO enjoy green jello, especially with chopped up pears in it.

Jello and the Mormonism stereotype

Green Jello and Spam

[askandanswer]

11 hours ago, zil said:

In upstate NY, when I was a teenager,

Did you happen to know a young guy by the name of Joseph Smith? I think he was living in the area at that time.

[askandanswer]

Its been my impression that if you are living in the corridor, all you need to do to be an active church participant is to just go with the flow and do what most of the other people around you are doing. Outside the corridor, to be an active church participant, you need to swim against the current. For some people, trying to swim against the current can lead to drowning, but for others, it helps them become stronger swimmers. 

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

Its been my impression that if you are living in the corridor, all you need to do to be an active church participant is to just go with the flow and do what most of the other people around you are doing. Outside the corridor, to be an active church participant, you need to swim against the current. For some people, trying to swim against the current can lead to drowning, but for others, it helps them become stronger swimmers. 

You have a bigger support system in Utah, that's for sure. Just based on sheer numbers, there are more LDS likely to be your age, have your interests, etc. That probably makes it easier to remain active. In some parts of the country it can be difficult because the LDS community is much, much smaller.