Religious vs cultural Mormonism

[Sunday21]

I wish people would stop making up their own rules and then,  trying to enforce them! We have the activity nuts here. These people do not work and consequently love activities. They are furious if you do not attend and really plague people with their demands that others attend.

http://www.ldsliving.com/Culture-vs-Doctrine-Are-We-Trying-to-Raise-the-Lord-s-Standards/s/80771/?utm_source=ldsliving&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=popular

Edited April 15, 2018 by Sunday21

[The Folk Prophet]

I wish people would stop blaming "cultural Mormonism" for their own weaknesses.

Do you really believe anyone in the church would say, "Your calling is more important than feeding your baby"?

Seriously?

Saying you read the scriptures daily and have family home evening is cultural Mormonism?

So a mother feels stress in her life because...you know...mother....and...you know....life...and it's "cultural Mormonism's" fault. She doesn't understand the importance of striking a balance in life and it's "cultural Mormonism's" fault. She's overly sensitive to people being people and it's "cultural Mormonism's" fault.

She realizes she has these issues, makes corrections in her own thinking, and solves the problems to a great extent, and yet still....yep....it was cultural Mormonism's fault.

[Sunday21]

Dear @The Folk Prophet. I did have the activities coordinator for Relief Society (RS) tell me  that that I should have my temple recommend revoked for not attending activities. I have had the activities people for Single Adults pester me weekly about activities with phone calls, emails, & flyers despite repeated explanations and refusals. Yes, I am good at saying No. But sometimes, the reminders and frankly pleading & begging, is ridiculous. I finally told my RS president very firmly that I will never attend a RS activity and she stopped bugging me.

I wonder actually if there is something in a handbook somewhere that recommends many activities if your ward is dwindling. My ward attendance ranges from 30 adults to 150. We have activities every week. I wonder if they are trying to increase ward size or recapture lost members? Right now, we have a Star Wars Night every few weeks where they play the movies. We have chili bake offs, water balloon fights, lots of parties. Really anything that you can think of, we have. 

[Fether]

Off hand, I can’t think of a time in my life where “Mormon culture” got in the way. I see “human nature” wanting to adjust things on occasion making it difficult, but nothing only found in the Mormon church. 

[The Folk Prophet]

24 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Dear @The Folk Prophet. I did have the activities coordinator for Relief Society (RS) tell me  that that I should have my temple recommend revoked for not attending activities.

Assuming this is true and they weren't kidding -- so what? One idiot does not a "cultural" problem make. It's not a cultural problem that some nutter is a nutter.

24 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

I have had the activities people for Single Adults pester me weekly about activities with phone calls, emails, & flyers despite repeated explanations and refusals. 

Not a cultural problem. Your problem.

25 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Yes, I am good at saying No. But sometimes, the reminders and frankly pleading & begging, is ridiculous. I finally told my RS president very firmly that I will never attend a RS activity and she stopped bugging me.

So you have a bunch of well meaning people who want to get you involved because they're want to love, befriend, succor, and fellowship you, and you're snotty to them to finally shut them up -- and the problem is Mormon culture?

27 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

I wonder actually if there is something in a handbook somewhere that recommends many activities if your ward is dwindling. My ward attendance ranges from 30 adults to 150. We have activities every week. I wonder if they are trying to increase ward size or recapture lost members? Right now, we have a Star Wars Night every few weeks where they play the movies. We have chili bake offs, water balloon fights, lots of parties. Really anything that you can think of, we have. 

Sounds like a single adult ward to me.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

I wish people would stop making up their own rules and then,  trying to enforce them! We have the activity nuts here. These people do not work and consequently love activities. They are furious if you do not attend and really plague people with their demands that others attend.

http://www.ldsliving.com/Culture-vs-Doctrine-Are-We-Trying-to-Raise-the-Lord-s-Standards/s/80771/?utm_source=ldsliving&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=popular

I don't read LDS Living because I'm not a cultural Mormon

That was a joke but prolly not a good one LOL

Edited April 15, 2018 by CV75

[Guest MormonGator]

What is a Cultural Mormon? Is it like a Jack Mormon? 

[The Folk Prophet]

3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

What is a Cultural Mormon? Is it like a Jack Mormon? 

A made up term created by "progressives" so they can excuse their own bad behavior(s) and blame it on "the church" without actually blaming "the church".

[zil]

2 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

I wish people would stop making up their own rules and then,  trying to enforce them! We have the activity nuts here. These people do not work and consequently love activities. They are furious if you do not attend and really plague people with their demands that others attend.

55 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

I did have the activities coordinator for Relief Society (RS) tell me  that that I should have my temple recommend revoked for not attending activities.

Handbook 2, Chapter 9 (Relief Society), 9.4.2 Additional Meetings:

Quote

Sisters should not be made to feel that attendance at these meetings is mandatory.

Just highlight that in the Gospel Library app, tag it or keep it as a separate screen or bookmark - whatever works for you - and pull it up any time someone tells you / implies that attendance at an RS "activity" is mandatory.

[Sunday21]

3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

What is a Cultural Mormon? Is it like a Jack Mormon? 

Cultural Mormonism like:

all baked goods must be homemade

never refuse a calling. I learned to say, ‘No’ or I would be unemployed now.

Don’t disagree in one of the ‘present a new policy’  meetings. Sometimes adjustments need to be made for local conditions. 

 

[Sunday21]

@zil. You are BOSS! Thank you!

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Cultural Mormonism like:

all baked goods must be homemade

never refuse a calling. I learned to say, ‘No’ or I would be unemployed now.

Don’t disagree in one of the ‘present a new policy’  meetings. Sometimes adjustments need to be made for local conditions. 

 

So they are LDS who follow the rules very closely than? 

[The Folk Prophet]

2 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

all baked goods must be homemade

No one cares about this. And the few nutter who do don't make it a "cultural" issue.

3 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

never refuse a calling.

This isn't a "cultural" thing.

"All of us should accept the callings we are given and serve in all diligence." Dallin H. Oaks

" I often hear about members who refuse Church callings or accept callings and fail to fulfill their responsibilities. Some are not committed and faithful. It has always been so. But this is not without consequence." Dallin H. Oaks

"That is why I urge those I love to accept and to magnify every calling offered them in the Church. That choice is one of the great keys to family happiness." Henry B Eyring

"We counsel you to accept callings in the Church and to serve faithfully in the positions to which you are called. Serve one another. Magnify your callings. As you do so, you will be the means of blessing others and you will increase in spirituality." Ezra Taft Benson

"Now, some of you may be shy by nature or consider yourselves inadequate to respond affirmatively to a calling. Remember that this work is not yours and mine alone. It is the Lord’s work, and when we are on the Lord’s errand, we are entitled to the Lord’s help. Remember that the Lord will shape the back to bear the burden placed upon it." Thomas S Monson

Etc...

10 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Don’t disagree in one of the ‘present a new policy’  meetings. Sometimes adjustments need to be made for local conditions. 

What?

[Sunday21]

3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

So they are LDS who follow the rules very closely than? 

Well when I joined the church I tried to do everything right and I believed rules like ‘never refuse a calling’. I have had a hard learning curve. I also stick up for abused teenage converts. For example, we are now drafting young teenage converts into teaching primary. I pointed out that teenage converts often have no car. Getting to church and especially activities is challenging. Getting to church can be done on the bus but it can take 4 hours to take the bus from some neighbourhoods as our church location is very inconvenient. Activities often take place 5 hours away. You are a new face, a teenage convert, so you get an invitation at the last minute. This 5 hour drive is your only opportunity to meet others face to face.

So teenage converts can assist in classes but don’t put them in charge of a class or have them team teach because teenagers often have less control over their lives than others. Or talk to them before giving a calling. Discuss the issues and give them some time to think it over.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, Sunday21 said:

Well when I joined the church I tried to do everything right and I believed rules like ‘never refuse a calling’. I have had a hard learning curve. I also stick up for abused teenage converts. For example, we are now drafting young teenage converts into teaching primary. I pointed out that teenage converts often have no car. Getting to church and especially activities is challenging. Getting to church can be done on the bus but it can take 4 hours to take the bus from some neighbourhoods as our church location is very inconvenient. Activities often take place 5 hours away. You are a new face, a teenage convert, so you get an invitation at the last minute. This 5 hour drive is your only opportunity to meet others face to face.

So teenage converts can assist in classes but don’t put them in charge of a class or have them team teach because teenagers often have less control over their lives than others. Or talk to them before giving a calling. Discuss the issues and give them some time to think it over.

Well said. Every situation is different, that's for sure. 

I've turned down callings too (only one) , and the bishop was understandable about it, albeit a bit surprised. Sometimes the real world intervenes! 

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

What is a Cultural Mormon? Is it like a Jack Mormon? 

I think that it's a quasi-Mormon's way of calling other Mormons a part of a cult.

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, Carborendum said:

I think that it's a quasi-Mormon's way of calling other Mormons a part of a cult.

You said that. 

And what's really sad? Eventually the war between Jack Mormons and Cultural Mormons and Molly Mormons and Peter Priesthood LDS will lead the church to ruin. We're all just Mormons here, and arguing over who is what will lead to serious problems down the road. A house divided...

[lostinwater]

12 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Sometimes the real world intervenes! 

Yep!  Completely agree.  

My mom was pregnant with her 4th child (not counting miscarriages) - 3 young kids to take care of.  The bishop called her to i think the RS presidency.  My dad - who is pretty staunchly traditionalist - stepped in and quashed that one - and i'm grateful he did.  

26 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Discuss the issues and give them some time to think it over.

That's some excellent advice.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

You said that. 

And what's really sad? Eventually the war between Jack Mormons and Cultural Mormons and Molly Mormons and Peter Priesthood LDS will lead the church to ruin. We're all just Mormons here, and arguing over who is what will lead to serious problems down the road. A house divided...

I think you took my comment a lot more seriously than I did.  I have no idea what a cultural Mormon is.  I also have no idea what a quasi-Mormon would even be.

[Crypto]

I think the key here is explaining the situation to the bishopric, and on the flip side having compassion and good listening skills. (as applied to the many situations in this thread)

To trouble things further, everyone seems to have a different button of where pushyness begins or if it is just good natured inclusion.  Invites are good, they should be extended graciously and refused graciously, then respected graciously.To be called out on temple worthiness because of lack of attendance at activities is unacceptable.

[Vort]

4 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Dear @The Folk Prophet. I did have the activities coordinator for Relief Society (RS) tell me  that that I should have my temple recommend revoked for not attending activities. I have had the activities people for Single Adults pester me weekly about activities with phone calls, emails, & flyers despite repeated explanations and refusals. Yes, I am good at saying No. But sometimes, the reminders and frankly pleading & begging, is ridiculous. I finally told my RS president very firmly that I will never attend a RS activity and she stopped bugging me.

I have heard of such things all my life. I don't think I've really experienced them, not in high doses, anyway. Or maybe that's just something that doesn't bother me much, that I'm not sensitive to because I dismiss it for what it is. My own experience (or lack thereof) tend to make me suppose such complaints about stifling Church culture are overblown. And they probably are -- except when they aren't. In such cases, I can see how they could present a serious trial to those involved.

[Vort]

3 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

For example, we are now drafting young teenage converts into teaching primary.

By "young teenage converts", do you mean 14? Or do you mean 19? The former is astounding. The latter seems reasonable enough. Teaching in the Primary is not a bad way to allow people, especially new members, to learn and review basic doctrines. Ideally, it's done in a team-teaching format.

[Sunday21]

19 minutes ago, Vort said:

By "young teenage converts", do you mean 14? Or do you mean 19? The former is astounding. The latter seems reasonable enough. Teaching in the Primary is not a bad way to allow people, especially new members, to learn and review basic doctrines. Ideally, it's done in a team-teaching format.

Well, I mean 17-19. But teen converts do not have cars here. They are poor. They are living with scary parents or out on their own in either low wage jobs or at school. 

[askandanswer]

Is cultural Mormonism the same or different as Utah Mormonism? I occasionally hear references to Utah Mormonism as if it's something different from regular Mormonism, and now a new term is being thrown into the mix.

[Sunday21]

Just now, askandanswer said:

Is cultural Mormonism the same or different as Utah Mormonism? I occasionally hear references to Utah Mormonism as if it's something different from regular Mormonism, and now a new term is being thrown into the mix.

I think ‘cultural mormonism’ Refers to the culture that grows up around the gospel rather than the gospel itself.

My ward had a ‘only bring home baked’ treats custom until I arrived and laughed hysterically at the disapproving faces. Now most people just head to the store. I live to lower standards!

We also used to be very gray and dull and then we had a bishop that I will never forget. He is sadly inactive now but my. He livened us up. He wore a grass skirt to a barbecue! Oh my. He laughed through that entire barbecue!