Why doesn't the Church teach its members how to give talks?

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, mgridle said:

I should say all more too common.  I would say what has become more all to common is the lack of willingness to stand for something for fear of being offensive.

When was the last time in sacrament you heard a talk about women being stay at home moms?  Nope, too offensive.  What about disciplining children effectively? Nope, too offensive.  What about appropriate sexual mores (outside of generic chastity)? Nope, too offensive. What about how to really effectively keep a marriage together and how divorce is bad? Nope, too offensive.  What about how to deal with spiritual issues like depression, anxiety, etc.? Nope, too offensive and it doesn't belong in Church it belongs somewhere else.

The Gospel preached at church in many ways has become very bland b/c to actually tackle the hard, important topics in today's society requires risking offending people and we can't have that now.  So the talks either go into very bland, very generic talks backed by scripture or talks that aren't based in the Gospel.

Well, I gave a talk in Sacrament on Mother's Day that covered mothers staying at home.  It was easy to prop up my wife's grandmother vs. my wife's mother as contrasting examples.

Grandmother: one of the earliest feminists.  She even said to her children that if she had it to do all over again, she'd never get married.  She had quite the career an a lot of awards from being good at what she did.  But now in her old age, she is wondering why her children don't spend time with her.

Mother: SAHM.  One of the earliest homeschoolers in the country.  Spent almost every day doing things to keep her children close to the gospel.  She continues to be an integral part of the lives of her children and grandchildren.  The whole extended family knows exactly who they are mostly because of this woman.

A woman from the ward who was also a SAHM and partial homeschooler came to me aftewards and thanked me because she had begun to be swayed by cultural norms and wondered if she should put her kids in daycare and get a job.  She now knew how important it was for her to stay at home and be a mom.

The thing is that the topics are going to be at the level of the speaker.  And if a speaker is listening more to the philosophies of men than scripture, they will give a speech that reflects that.  I'm not sure what can be done to change that.

[mgridle]

4 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Well, I gave a talk in Sacrament on Mother's Day that covered mothers staying at home.  It was easy to prop up my wife's grandmother vs. my wife's mother as contrasting examples.

Grandmother: one of the earliest feminists.  She even said to her children that if she had it to do all over again, she'd never get married.  She had quite the career an a lot of awards from being good at what she did.  But now in her old age, she is wondering why her children don't spend time with her.

Mother: SAHM.  One of the earliest homeschoolers in the country.  Spent almost every day doing things to keep her children close to the gospel.  She continues to be an integral part of the lives of her children and grandchildren.  The whole extended family knows exactly who they are mostly because of this woman.

A woman from the ward who was also a SAHM and partial homeschooler came to me aftewards and thanked me because she had begun to be swayed by cultural norms and wondered if she should put her kids in daycare and get a job.  She now knew how important it was for her to stay at home and be a mom.

The thing is that the topics are going to be at the level of the speaker.  And if a speaker is listening more to the philosophies of men than scripture, they will give a speech that reflects that.  I'm not sure what can be done to change that.

Maybe I'm wrong about this (I hope I am). That's cool,   . .. obviously not about your grandmother but that you were giving a talk about this topic, good for you!  I agree with you last paragraph, it is just the way of the world.  If we as members are more listening to scripture than man, it will be reflected in our wards and stakes, if not that will also be reflected.

Very sad with your wife's grandmother; we reap what we sow in life.  It is sad for her and a learning lesson for the rest of us.

Edited May 2, 2018 by mgridle

[anatess2]

11 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Well, I gave a talk in Sacrament on Mother's Day that covered mothers staying at home.  It was easy to prop up my wife's grandmother vs. my wife's mother as contrasting examples.

Grandmother: one of the earliest feminists.  She even said to her children that if she had it to do all over again, she'd never get married.  She had quite the career an a lot of awards from being good at what she did.  But now in her old age, she is wondering why her children don't spend time with her.

Mother: SAHM.  One of the earliest homeschoolers in the country.  Spent almost every day doing things to keep her children close to the gospel.  She continues to be an integral part of the lives of her children and grandchildren.  The whole extended family knows exactly who they are mostly because of this woman.

A woman from the ward who was also a SAHM and partial homeschooler came to me aftewards and thanked me because she had begun to be swayed by cultural norms and wondered if she should put her kids in daycare and get a job.  She now knew how important it was for her to stay at home and be a mom.

The thing is that the topics are going to be at the level of the speaker.  And if a speaker is listening more to the philosophies of men than scripture, they will give a speech that reflects that.  I'm not sure what can be done to change that.

I was the concluding speaker for Mother's Day last year.  I posted my talk here on mormonhub (too lazy to do a search).  I talked about these Carolina Wrens that decided to lay eggs on my ceiling fan and how I had the privilege of seeing traditional Carolina Wren male and female cooperation in raising their children.  I also talked about 4 women in my life - 1.) my grandmother whose husband died in World War II when her oldest child was only 5 years old and lived the rest of her life as a widow trying to feed 3 children in a time when women did not have too many opportunities in the workplace by starting a business as a seamstress.  2.) my mother who was a midwife making good money until the day she got married where she quit her job to be a homemaker and never worked for pay again the rest of her life.  3.) my 2 aunts who were both single old ladies who were career women and the 2nd moms to me and many of my cousins.

I gave this talk to teach how each of these people fulfilled their roles as Mothers in their differing sets of circumstances.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

I was the concluding speaker for Mother's Day last year.  I posted my talk here on mormonhub (too lazy to do a search).  I talked about these Carolina Wrens that decided to lay eggs on my ceiling fan and how I had the privilege of seeing traditional Carolina Wren male and female cooperation in raising their children.  I also talked about 4 women in my life - 1.) my grandmother whose husband died in World War II when her oldest child was only 5 years old and lived the rest of her life as a widow trying to feed 3 children in a time when women did not have too many opportunities in the workplace by starting a business as a seamstress.  2.) my mother who was a midwife making good money until the day she got married where she quit her job to be a homemaker and never worked for pay again the rest of her life.  3.) my 2 aunts who were both single old ladies who were career women and the 2nd moms to me and many of my cousins.

I gave this talk to teach how each of these people fulfilled their roles as Mothers in their differing sets of circumstances.

Case in point.

[Fether]

7 hours ago, mgridle said:

I should say all more too common.  I would say what has become more all to common is the lack of willingness to stand for something for fear of being offensive.

When was the last time in sacrament you heard a talk about women being stay at home moms?  Nope, too offensive.  What about disciplining children effectively? Nope, too offensive.  What about appropriate sexual mores (outside of generic chastity)? Nope, too offensive. What about how to really effectively keep a marriage together and how divorce is bad? Nope, too offensive.  What about how to deal with spiritual issues like depression, anxiety, etc.? Nope, too offensive and it doesn't belong in Church it belongs somewhere else.

The Gospel preached at church in many ways has become very bland b/c to actually tackle the hard, important topics in today's society requires risking offending people and we can't have that now.  So the talks either go into very bland, very generic talks backed by scripture or talks that aren't based in the Gospel.

And if something slightly offensive is even suggested, there is a two paragraph disclaimer saying that they aren’t judging anyone who does this...

That drives me nuts... why can’t I bear testimony of the importance of having a family and not worry about offending people that either disagree or can’t have children. Too many disclaimers make for a soft congregation

[mgridle]

58 minutes ago, Fether said:

And if something slightly offensive is even suggested, there is a two paragraph disclaimer saying that they aren’t judging anyone who does this...

That drives me nuts... why can’t I bear testimony of the importance of having a family and not worry about offending people that either disagree or can’t have children. Too many disclaimers make for a soft congregation

Yeap exactly.  That's why I don't do disclaimers anymore, I don't soft-pedal things and my ward knows, when I'm asked to give a talk-I'm bringing the wood. It's very scriptural and doctrinal based, I don't mess around and I tell it like it is. It's unfortunate that more people don't realize how drastically the world has shifted and changed-especially in the last 10 years.

There are major, major shifts afoot (inside and outside the Church) and now's not the time to be a wall-flower. There is a war going on and it has become very, very intense.  So far (thank God!) the worst wound you will get is that you lose your job. But I guarantee you, that's not as bad as it can potentially get; b/c if people don't start standing up and pushing back against this insanity; you'll eventually stand to lose your life and the life of your family.

And you might think I'm using hyperbole-I'm not at all. I just read an article where a former lesbian, recorded a video where she recants her lesbianism, says it was sinful several years ago, then is looking to be hired for a job as a coach last fall. She gets the job, they are working on the onboarding process, closing the deal and the hiring individual abruptly halts everything and says she needs to remove the video otherwise she can't be hired.  What worse is people proclaim Hate Speech isn't protected by the First Amendment and therefore b/c she is using Hate Speech it's totally cool to not hire her (it was a state university).  And for people who say, yeah but the Supreme Court . . .look the Supreme Court is more a reflection of the culture vs. anything else.  They declared slavery legal, come on, it's not really a check. The only real check is the people themselves.

And when you have supposed Americans blasting through twitter, facebook, etc. that Hate Speech is not Free Speech . . .lookout buddy.

What annoys me the most is that it's not honest (the types of conversations you highlight above), it's just a lie of a conversation, b/c you actually aren't communicating you are saying what you think the other person would like to hear, not really what you think.  When you have to put disclaimers that you "aren't judging" every where, what it really means is that you aren't having an honest, open conversation-it's just a shell filled with lies, b/c you are more concerned with saying what the other person will find pleasing rather than actually communicating.

Edited May 3, 2018 by mgridle

[Just_A_Guy]

12 hours ago, Vort said:

The Church doesn't instruct its members in the art of rhetoric because the Church doesn't care about rhetoric. Some people are engaging speakers -- wonderful. Some people aren't -- unimportant. The Spirit teaches us. ONLY the Spirit teaches us. The Spirit does not depend on rhetoric. I don't care if the speaker is dry as day-old toast, if the Spirit is present with him or her, we will be filled.

Unless, of course, we don't have the Spirit with us. But in that case, rhetoric is useless. We might as well go to a political rally or watch a TED talk.

The Church is about the Holy Spirit, not rhetoric.

 

12 hours ago, Carborendum said:

There is no "method" or pattern of speech that invokes the Spirit.  It is taught as one has the Spirit with them.  I believe you're more worried about being emotionally fulfilled than spiritually fulfilled.

I’m going to diverge a bit from you gents and suggest that good rhetoric, like good music, can make it easier for the Spirit to carry a message into someone’s heart; whereas bad rhetoric for some folks can be the spiritual equivalent to a punk metal band performing the Sacrament hymn.  

And, I think @person0 had an excellent point:  sure, as a listener I can turn a bad talk into a good one by cherry-picking one or two ideas from the talk and then mentally reconstructing a new talk; but at that point I’m not really listening to the actual talk anymore, and I may as well just whip out my smartphone and start reading some random thing from the Gospel Library app—I’m not showing courtesy to the speaker either way.

2 hours ago, Fether said:

And if something slightly offensive is even suggested, there is a two paragraph disclaimer saying that they aren’t judging anyone who does this...

That drives me nuts... why can’t I bear testimony of the importance of having a family and not worry about offending people that either disagree or can’t have children. Too many disclaimers make for a soft congregation

Hmm.  Personally, I love disclaimers.  (No offense intended to those of you who think differently.)

Also:  How to Be a Gooder Speechist.

[Vort]

11 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I’m going to diverge a bit from you gents and suggest that good rhetoric, like good music, can make it easier for the Spirit to carry a message into someone’s heart; whereas bad rhetoric for some folks can be the spiritual equivalent to a punk metal band performing the Sacrament hymn.

You may be right, but I sincerely don't think so. I do not believe the Spirit is dependent on rhetorical skills. Your claim is essentially the same as saying, "The Spirit will bear testimony to your witness more easily if you're pretty." I mean, I understand the reasoning, and it's hard to argue against the idea that beauty, whether of face or of word, makes people more likely to accept something or someone. But having people believe you is not the same as having the Spirit testify to them.

[Just_A_Guy]

6 minutes ago, Vort said:

You may be right, but I sincerely don't think so. I do not believe the Spirit is dependent on rhetorical skills. Your claim is essentially the same as saying, "The Spirit will bear testimony to your witness more easily if you're pretty." I mean, I understand the reasoning, and it's hard to argue against the idea that beauty, whether of face or of word, makes people more likely to accept something or someone. But having people believe you is not the same as having the Spirit testify to them.

I understand where you’re coming from; but what do you make of my music analogy?  Can music either facilitate, or detract from, a spiritual manifestation?

[Fether]

5 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I understand where you’re coming from; but what do you make of my music analogy?  Can music either facilitate, or detract from, a spiritual manifestation?

"Of course there are individuals who are keeping their covenants who lack teaching charisma. Of course there are those whose lives are in order who are not exciting as teachers. However, the Spirit blesses the efforts of all who live worthily. It endorses what they say or do. There is a witnessing authenticity which proceeds from the commandment keeper, which speaks for itself. Therefore, I prefer doctrinal accuracy and spiritual certitude (even with a little dullness) to charisma with unanchored cleverness.
    However, part of what may be lacking, at times, in the decent teacher is a freshening personal excitement over the gospel which could prove highly contagious. Since we can only speak the smallest part of what we feel, we should not let that “smallest part” shrink in its size"
- Neal A Maxwell

 

 

[Just_A_Guy]

4 minutes ago, Fether said:

"Of course there are individuals who are keeping their covenants who lack teaching charisma. Of course there are those whose lives are in order who are not exciting as teachers. However, the Spirit blesses the efforts of all who live worthily. It endorses what they say or do. There is a witnessing authenticity which proceeds from the commandment keeper, which speaks for itself. Therefore, I prefer doctrinal accuracy and spiritual certitude (even with a little dullness) to charisma with unanchored cleverness.
    However, part of what may be lacking, at times, in the decent teacher is a freshening personal excitement over the gospel which could prove highly contagious. Since we can only speak the smallest part of what we feel, we should not let that “smallest part” shrink in its size"
- Neal A Maxwell

 

 

So, I can bring my accordion to sacrament meetings?

(Just kidding, Fether; I like the quote a lot.)

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I’m going to diverge a bit from you gents and suggest that good rhetoric, like good music, can make it easier for the Spirit to carry a message into someone’s heart; whereas bad rhetoric for some folks can be the spiritual equivalent to a punk metal band performing the Sacrament hymn.  

That does remind me of what my mission president told us.  There are seven methods of bringing the Spirit into the room.  Unfortunately, I don't remember the whole list.  But here's what I do remember.

1) Scriptures
2) Prayer
3) Uplifting music
4) Testimony
5) Expressions of love

For a speech,

1) We are certainly supposed to read some scriptures.
2) Prayers are said in the same meetings, but not the speech themselves.
3) I suppose we can recite some lyrics.  But the songs are usually sung separately.
4) Yes, bearing testimony is supposed to be part of a good sacrament speech.
5) Yes, we can express love (as in my example of the two young women in my ward).

Notice that everyone does #1, Usually #4, and often #5.  But none of these make the speech "less boring" by emotional standards.

[zil]

Elder Scott, "To Acquire Spiritual Guidance":

Quote

.... One Sunday I attended the priesthood meeting of a Spanish branch in Mexico City. I vividly recall how a humble Mexican priesthood leader struggled to communicate the truths of the gospel in his lesson material. I noted the intense desire he had to share those principles he strongly valued with his quorum members. He recognized that they were of great worth to the brethren present. In his manner, there was an evidence of a pure love of the Savior and love of those he taught.

His sincerity, purity of intent, and love permitted a spiritual strength to envelop the room. I was deeply touched. Then I began to receive personal impressions as an extension of the principles taught by that humble instructor. They were personal and related to my assignments in the area. They came in answer to my prolonged, prayerful efforts to learn.

As each impression came, I carefully wrote it down. ...

Subsequently, I visited the Sunday School class in our ward, where a very well-educated teacher presented his lesson. That experience was in striking contrast to the one enjoyed in the priesthood meeting. It seemed to me that the instructor had purposely chosen obscure references and unusual examples to illustrate the principles of the lesson. I had the distinct impression that this instructor was using the teaching opportunity to impress the class with his vast store of knowledge. At any rate, he certainly did not seem as intent on communicating principles as had the humble priesthood leader.

In that environment, strong impressions began to flow to me again. I wrote them down. The message included specific counsel on how to become more effective as an instrument in the hands of the Lord. I received such an outpouring of impressions that were so personal that I felt it was not appropriate to record them in the midst of a Sunday School class. I sought a more private location, where I continued to write the feelings that flooded into my mind and heart as faithfully as possible....

FWIW.

[Just_A_Guy]

3 minutes ago, zil said:

Elder Scott, "To Acquire Spiritual Guidance":

FWIW.

Soooo . . . It’s ok to walk out of a Sunday School class, but only if the teacher is really interesting . . .

(Ignore me.  I just pulled an all nighter reviewing upcoming witness testimony.  It’s gonna be a long day . . .)

[Fether]

50 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

So, I can bring my accordion to sacrament meetings?

(Just kidding, Fether; I like the quote a lot.)

If playing accordion is how you express your excitement for the gospel

[person0]

6 hours ago, Vort said:

You may be right, but I sincerely don't think so. I do not believe the Spirit is dependent on rhetorical skills. Your claim is essentially the same as saying, "The Spirit will bear testimony to your witness more easily if you're pretty." I mean, I understand the reasoning, and it's hard to argue against the idea that beauty, whether of face or of word, makes people more likely to accept something or someone. But having people believe you is not the same as having the Spirit testify to them.

Moses = + 1 for Spirit not dependent on rhetoric.  However, interestingly, the Lord provided a spokesman for him so that he would actually be able to accomplish His work = +1 for rhetoric playing a significant role.

Perhaps we'll call it even!

Anecdote:  Once as a missionary, I had an unusual (for me) experience where I recited the most incorrectly worded version of the first vision my companion had ever heard in his life.  However, the Spirit was very strong and the investigators felt it and recognized it.  Of course, my companion made sure to re-explain what happened during the first vision using lay terms to ensure comprehension.

I think I agree that the Spirit does not depend on rhetorical skills, but I think us mortals do depend upon them.  Even though the Spirit can teach us all things, I don't think it will do that where we could very reasonably do it for ourselves, and for one another.  Also, I wonder if most people who give boring talks, when preparing, are actually remembering to seek the Spirit to convey their message, or if many are simply seeking to piece together enough information in a cohesive way to make it through the end of their 10 minutes?  The same can be said for those who have good speaking skills and are not boring, but who get up there, share stories, and ramble on without an adequately fleshed out doctrinal message.  If the one who prepares the talk does not prepare in seeking the Spirit, how much does that affect our ability to receive the Spirit while listening, without having to resort to Brother Eyring style techniques?

Interestingly, Nephi said (emphasis added):

Quote

And now I, Nephi, cannot write all the things which were taught among my people; neither am I mighty in writing, like unto speaking; for when a man speaketh by the power of the Holy Ghost the power of the Holy Ghost carrieth it unto the hearts of the children of men.

Sounds like Nephi was a very competent speaker, which was likely effective in his ability to serve as a prophet and deliver the words and message of the Lord.  However, we can clearly feel the power of his written words, even though he was limited, because he had the Spirit.  Paul also talked about how faith comes by hearing the word of God.  I think there is an appropriate balance to be found between preparing with the Spirit, and also with seeking to convey the message in an effective way, with the appropriate rhetoric.  The difficulty is in finding where that balance is for each of us, as it is might even be different for each person.

[Fether]

3 minutes ago, person0 said:

Sounds like Nephi was a very competent speaker, which was likely effective in his ability to serve as a prophet and deliver the words and message of the Lord.  However, we can clearly feel the power of his written words, even though he was limited, because he had the Spirit.  Paul also talked about how faith comes by hearing the word of God.  I think there is an appropriate balance to be found between preparing with the Spirit, and also with seeking to convey the message in an effective way, with the appropriate rhetoric.  The difficulty is in finding where that balance is for each of us, as it is might even be different for each person.

I agree. I think rhetoric is important. There are so many fantastic speakers in the church and it is they that tend to make the greatest impressions on those that aren’t prone to listening.

we shouldn’t rely on our speaking ability nor ignore potential growth

[Guest]

To anyone who cares to answer:  I think it is important to ask the question -- What exactly is the purpose of a sacrament talk in the first place?

The entire purpose of the meeting is to partake of the Sacrament.  All other elements of the meeting are to help us focus on that ordinance.  Songs, prayers, and even talks are supposed to help us focus on the covenants we're making.  I think ward business is mainly there for practical purposes (it is the only time when everyone is gathered all together).  But even ward business is somewhat related. 

We're partaking of the body of Christ.  We're participating in the body of Christ.

So, how to sacrament talks help us focus on the ordinance?

[Fether]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

To anyone who cares to answer:  I think it is important to ask the question -- What exactly is the purpose of a sacrament talk in the first place?

The entire purpose of the meeting is to partake of the Sacrament.  All other elements of the meeting are to help us focus on that ordinance.  Songs, prayers, and even talks are supposed to help us focus on the covenants we're making.  I think ward business is mainly there for practical purposes (it is the only time when everyone is gathered all together).  But even ward business is somewhat related. 

We're partaking of the body of Christ.  We're participating in the body of Christ.

So, how to sacrament talks help us focus on the ordinance?

So we can say we go to church for 3 hours while other churches only do 2.

And lets be honest, it is also so our Bishops can get paid more 😛

Edited May 3, 2018 by Fether

[NeuroTypical]

Coming late to the thread, but I was reminded of an old tv show where the dad says "Time to teach you to learn how to swim", and throws his kid screaming into the pool.  After a few moments, his kid is drowning and it doesn't seem to be working.  So he says "Go save your brother" and throws his other kid screaming into the pool.

When it's not life or death, I think there may be something to that method.  I was thrown screaming into teaching Gospel Principles.  I was totally unprepared.  Barely back to activity.  I had massive anxiety, stage fright, fear of public speaking.  I slept poorly for days before each class.  Afraid I'd say the wrong thing and ruin someone's life or testimony or something.  

So, I tackled it with an attitude of "ok, better read this stuff to find out what I believe and why."  Not to mean that I just accepted blindly whatever the lesson presented.  What I meant, was I did my research.  Looked up topics.  Read from different sources.  I figured out what I believed and why, and then looked at what the church wanted me to teach.  That helped me know what the heck I was talking about.   For the stage fright, I wrote out detailed sentence-by-sentence lesson plans, and practiced them in front of the mirror.  I had a very long track record of failing miserably when I spoke off-the-cuff, and I was terrified of doing it again.  So I made sure I had plenty of stuff to say, that I had researched, written down, and practiced.

I lived.  Not only that, I eventually thrived.  I've mastered my fear of public speaking, and these days I tend to know what the crap I'm talking about.

Being taught how to teach/give talks?  That would have been cool - it probably would have helped me.  But at the end of the day, figuring out what I believed, and mastering my fear of public speaking, was all on me.

[Vin]

I gave my first ever talk in sacrament meeting last Sunday. I've been a member for just over 3 months. I was terrified but I agreed.

I felt so inadequate - never spoke in any church before, nothing from primary or youth to draw upon, I was scared I would say something wrong like someones title in the church or misinterpret some foundation belief or something.

My talk was basically about me going to the temple for the first time and it took me ages to think about what to include. I prayed about it. Even then I felt what I had to say didn't hold much worth - 99% of the people in the room had more experience of the temple than me. Ultimately maybe it was boring to a lot of people who have been to the temple a million times.

I hate public speaking - on the whole I'm not good at it. Having anxiety does not help. So I had to do a whole lot of praying about that also. I thought about jumping ship before sacrament meeting. I only had one point of reference from a conference talk to include so structurally.... not good. But I did it anyway. 

I spoke clearly, didn't go off track, didn't fumble over my words, I said everything and I didn't forget to say "in the name of Jesus Christ amen". Was it a masterpiece... probably not. But a few people told me afterwards they felt the spirit and they loved it.... maybe they have to say that because I'm new? lol 

My point is, we're all different... I had missionaries, a members of the bisphoric on hand if I needed any help or had any questions. They helped, gave me a few pointers... but I'm still just a normal member giving her first talk. Sometimes the battle and meaning is for the speaker more than the people listening. 

Honestly, if someone had come up to me afterwards and said "You did this wrong" or "that wrong".... I probably wouldn't want to speak again. So any coaching needs to be done carefully and considerately. 

Many people know the basics to giving a decent talk, but that doesn't mean they can apply them when standing in front of people.

 

[BJ64]

Some observations on talks. 

1. Talks in general conference are written in their entirety then read from a teleprompter. Perhaps if our chapels had a teleprompter the talks would have better presentation. 

2. Some people are naturally very good speakers and others are not. 

3. When a speaker gets up and looks at the clock then says “It looks like it’s going to be a short meeting”, the meeting is going to go over time. Somehow the speaker who claims he doesn’t have much to say is the one who won’t quit talking. 

4. There’s no such thing a a boring sacrament meeting because if the speaker can’t hold my attention I log on to familysearch and  work on my family history or read stories about my ancestors while all the time keeping track of what is said in the meeting in case there’s a test afterward. 

5. Some of the worst talks is when a member is assigned to give a talk about a conference talk. First off how is a ward member going to improve on what a general authority has said and secondly if I want to hear that talk over again I’ll log into lds.org and listen to the talk again given by the person who gave it in the first place. 

6. Though not technically a talk, many members don’t have a clue as to what it is to bare a testimony. We don’t need to hear about your recent vacation or how the high school ball team is doing. Unless of course it’s somehow going to strengthen our own testimony. 

7. People should never be asked on short notice to bare their testimony in a meeting. Besides being inconsiderate, I think a testimony is a personal thing which should be shared when one feels it’s appropriate. Not something that is forced out of you  

8.The best way to avoid speaking in church is to volunteer to give a talk on a particular subject or occasion. Every time I’ve done this I have not been asked. I may never get to give the talk I have prepared in my head on the subject of the pioneers to be given near the 24th of July. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by BJ64

[classylady]

On 5/2/2018 at 11:50 AM, Vort said:

Or perhaps the Church leadership already knows that half of the people they ask to speak say "No", and that percentage will only increase as the requirements for rhetoric become more stringent.

 

I’m in the minority of members who actually wants to give a talk in Sacrament Meeting. I’m disappointed that I haven’t been asked to talk since my older kids went on missions. It’s been quite a few years. I don’t know why speaking in front of people does not intimidate me. But, at the same time I don’t like to call attention to myself.  I know I’m strange.  

[Vort]

TEN FRANK BUT (USUALLY) UNSPOKEN TRUTHS ABOUT TALKS IN SACRAMENT MEETING

1. Skip the humorous story about how the bishop asked you to give a talk. We already know the bishop asked you to give a talk. That's why you're standing in front of us giving a talk. If you didn't want to give it, we don't really want to know about it.

2. PLEASE don't tell us about how much time you have to take up, or how much time the other speaker will have to cover for you, or any other metatopic talking about your talk. Rather than hearing you talk about your talk, we would much rather just, you know, hear your talk.

3. Funny story? Okay, I guess, as long as it's germane to the talk. A funny story for the sake of a funny story is worse than a waste of time. We're at sacrament meeting to worship the Lord, not to get a free standup routine.

4. If you're new to public speaking, that's great! We're on your side and want you to succeed. Seriously, don't sweat it. We don't care about professional orators. Rhetoric is not particularly highly valued in the kingdom of God.

5. If you're well-prepared, thank you. If you're just up there winging it because you couldn't be bothered to take a couple of hours to at least think through your talk and write yourself some notes, you've done us (and yourself) a disservice.

6. Testimony! Please, testimony! That word means "witness", and that means you tell us what has happened to YOU. Testimony need not involve words like "beyond any shadow of doubt" or "with every fiber of my being". Stories are always welcome, as long as they're germane to the subject of your talk.

7. If the bishop has asked you to speak for 15 minutes, then please, by all means, speak for 15 minutes (or thereabout). You don't have to be right to the second, but use some common sense. If the bishop has asked for fifteen minutes, ten or less is too short, and twenty or more is too long.

8. If you're at the end of the meeting, and the previous speaker left you too little time, then shorten your talk. Just bear your testimony, if that's all you have time for. Unless...

9. If the bishop asks you to go ahead and give your talk without worrying about the time, then do as he says. As a rule, always do what the bishop asks you to do. (See #7.)

10. Follow the Spirit. In importance, this would be #1.

[Guest]

I've got a better question to ask about Sacrament talks.

Three times now, i've been told to prepare a 15 to 20 minute talk where I was not given 15 minutes.  In fact, I wasn't even given 5 minutes.  The youth speaker as well as the other adult speaker took so much time that they basically pushed me out.  I'm not going to describe how that went because you can probably guess. 

But I was wondering what you all thought I should do.

1) As I notice the clock, I should start editing my talk down to 3.5 minutes until it doesn't really mean anything anymore.

2) Get up and give a 10 second talk that is essentially the summary message -- EXAMPLE: Study your scriptures, and Pray multiple times every day.

3) Just tell the Bishop that I don't have time enough to do this and just save it for another day.