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15 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

@Overwatch. I love the temple. I find it easy to talk to God There and to have God talk to me.

Thanks Sunday. The temple grounds are very beautiful and usually invite a sense of calm and reflection to me too. I need to make the 3 hour or so drive to the one nearest to me to sit for a bit maybe.

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1 hour ago, Grunt said:

We're still mortal men, just trying to make it through this world like everyone else.  Just because we have the Priesthood and the gift of the Holy Spirit doesn't mean the weight of the world doesn't get to us now and again.

This is one of the most honest things I have heard a member say in a long time. I usually witness Mormons profess that the Church is the best thing since sliced bread. You get there, everyone one is super nice and then you become just like the rest of them and it turns into the same ol', same ol'. So I guess it's just like the non religious friends I have but version 2.0 (which is the Mormon guys believe in God too) Don't expect nothing and don't trust them around anything I hold dear XD

I suppose I can live with that. Yes, it appears my expectations were too much.

When I commit to something I really go at. On splits with the missionaries, You need a male? sure thing on my way. I feed them. I contribute my tithes and offerings. Drive and volunteer my vehicles if they need to go somewhere in a big group. give actual FOOD if they need it. Help clean up on the weekends...  All I wanted was some friends in return [while I worship of course] The Gentiles are very good at having a brotherhood but of course they lack The Spirit ( I am an Israelite by blood) God has been very good to me. Especially acknowledging the divinity of His Holy Son.

I suppose it is time to get back to work at church but this time make it official. Get the companionship of my Brother at [ALL] times.

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

I have an overwhelming desire to punch someone in the throat because of what they're posting.  The struggle is real.

Savage

 

Thanks for the input. I know once I go back and do this I am going to be placed at the front lines. It's what I do, it's what I was born to do.

Edited by Overwatch
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5 minutes ago, Overwatch said:

This is one of the most honest things I have heard a member say in a long time. I usually witness Mormons profess that the Church is the best thing since sliced bread. You get there, everyone one is super nice and then you become just like the rest of them and it turns into the same ol', same ol'. So I guess it's just like the non religious friends I have but version 2.0 (which is the Mormon guys believe in God too) 

For me, yes every starts off with the same natural man-- LDS, atheists, Catholics, Hindus, etc.  We all go the same inclinations to be jerks, selfish, and prideful.  Being LDS in no way makes that starting point not true.  However, for LDS there is that goal to move beyond that natural-man-starting-point.  Such a journey is TOTALLY a mega work-in-progress, with frequent mega backslides.  But there is that goal.

Now, do some non-LDS folks have this same goal of being charitable, kind, etc?  Totally!  And such should be celebrated.  Celebrate truth and goodness wherever it is found. 

 

Congrats for you focusing on that truth, @Overwatch

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4 minutes ago, Overwatch said:

This is one of the most honest things I have heard a member say in a long time. I usually witness Mormons profess that the Church is the best thing since sliced bread. You get there, everyone one is super nice and then you become just like the rest of them and it turns into the same ol', same ol'.

Of course your perception is your reality, but us Mormons usually proclaim about the Church in such a way because we are eager for our other brothers and sisters to join the fold and take part in the blessings we are witnesses of each and every day. So maybe you perceive it as more grandiose than charitable or of the like, but most of the time those who exclaim about the church in such a way are doing so because they hope their excitement will influence those who are not of this faith to search out why we love it so much.

I think if you're the one who has felt that way, the "same ol' same ol'" feeling, then I'd have to call you out and say that's on you and not the truthfulness of the Church. Everything that is new and unique is exciting at first: that new shirt you got is the one you go to all the time for the next month, the new CD you bought is on repeat 24/7. But then it becomes "mundane" as it gets enfolded into your everyday routine, as it's apart of who you are. And that "excitement" may diminish, but is that because the object is less exciting? No, you've just become familiar with it. You're habituated to that object. In context of the Church, some people are very excited about the first few missionary lessons, and the excitement of being baptized and receiving The Holy Ghost. And then they realize that this becomes apart of their every day life and it isn't this shiny, new object anymore. It's work, and it's apart of who you are. If you're the type of person that needs to seek out new stimulation and sets aside the old things that don't bring that anymore, then you'd have to find a way to work with that in terms of your relationship with the Church. But as others have mentioned here, they find ways to make those "mundane" sunday school lessons exciting for them. They don't let that habituation get in the way of their fondness for the gospel.

It is up to the individual to find that fire within themselves to keep their testimony burning each and every day. Otherwise it will become mundane and boring, and a big reason why people stop coming. But that's not just with The Church, that's with everything in our lives. 

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3 minutes ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

But then it becomes "mundane" as it gets enfolded into your everyday routine, as it's apart of who you are. And that "excitement" may diminish, but is that because the object is less exciting? No, you've just become familiar with it

Until you stop going then people actually come and visit (not home teachers 😖)  Maybe they needed that extra person to clean the chapel?  hmm lol

I suppose I see what you are saying. Thanks for the input.

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7 hours ago, Overwatch said:

What do YOU like most about church and what keeps you going back?

I think a little background on me will be helpful to understanding my thoughts better. I was born into the church as was baptized on my eighth birthday. The thing is I had an extremely hard time believing the church was true and I never liked going to church. It was just what we did at my house and I despised my parents for forcing me to go every week and looked forward to excuses to get out of it, gladly taking jobs on Sunday as a teenager so I wouldn't have to go to church. we had a lot of us in my ward that worked on Sundays so the Bishop even started having 8:00 pm sacrament meetings  for those who work during the day to still be able to come renew covenants - it was insult to injury, I couldn't win, I still ended up at church on Sunday.

I longed for the day I'd graduate high school and move out and say good riddance to all that churchy stuff. Before that all happened though I wanted to be sure the church was wrong, so I gave it a last ditch effort. I felt like the only way I could feel sure is if I could say that I read the Book of Mormon cover to cover and prayed to know whether or not it was true and still received no answer or perhaps even received and answer to the negative. As it turned out I read the Book of Mormon for the first time through and prayed and felt a feeling of great peace and love which I felt was my answer that the Book of Mormon is true. Once I had a real testimony I found church to be much less frustrating. I wasn't just wasting my time, but actually working toward something of value and renewing covenants that mattered instead of being held to a standard that may not actually have any real meaning. After that time I went on to serve a mission and succeeded at personal scripture study daily for a seven year time frame wherein I only missed a maximum of two-weeks in all that time. During this phase in my life when I was very consistent with my scripture study, I found church to be something I occasionally would even find myself looking forward to.

When I got married, family life threw some great challenges into my routine of scripture study and I've never been able to get back to the consistency I had for that seven-year span. I've also noticed that I don't find church as interesting, nor do I find life in general as hopeful as I used to. Now that may not all be related to scripture study, but I'm going to say that personal scripture study and personal testimony make a huge difference into how one perceives church enjoyment.

I can also say that being called to repentance saps more of my energy when I am guilty of greater sins. Constantly being reminded to read scriptures when i am failing to do so is kind of defeating. Constantly being reminded to do the now defunct home teaching that requires me to see a single sister with a companion who is MIA and not having others willing to go - it feels defeating. Post-poning missionary service for almost a year while trying to clear up chastity issues can feel very VERY defeating. On the flip side though overcoming these shortcomings can really strengthen faith in Christ and is so freeing.

I have also always enjoyed being physically fit. I have generally always enjoyed exercise - I was the kid in gym class who would hold up his hand when the teacher asked who wanted to run more laps. As I am getting older I find exercise less enjoyable than I did in my younger years, but I still value my physical fitness and do it anyway for the health and performance benefits. So while I may no longer get the same enjoyment out of hoisting over twice my bodyweight for multiple repetitions, I do greatly enjoy being able to play hard with my kids, move furniture without trouble, climb stairs without being winded and leaving the doctor's office with good blood work. Sometimes, I think of going to church a little bit in the same way. Maybe while I'm sitting there in the pew trying to listen to a talk while my toddler is squirming everywhere, my baby is crying and I just want a nap I don't find it terribly enjoyable all the time. But when someone wants a blessing, or is getting married in the temple and I'm confident that I've been doing my part to be worthy to participate as invited it's a great and fulfilling experience. Without going to church as part of this process I wouldn't be spiritually fit enough to just up and do these things that I not only enjoy, but bring some of the greatest meaning in this life.

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1 minute ago, Overwatch said:

Until you stop going then people actually come and visit (not home teachers 😖)  Maybe they needed that extra person to clean the chapel?  hmm lol

I suppose I see what you are saying. Thanks for the input.

You're pointing out a lot of flaws you've witnessed in the members you've been surrounded by. Are you not flawed and imperfect yourself? Just because we are "members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints" doesn't mean we are perfect human beings who follow all of the commandments perfectly and act just like Christ did. Are we trying to? Of course, that's our whole goal in this life. But are we going to fail at that A LOT? Yeah, absolutely.

We don't boast about the Church because we're proclaiming to be perfect. We boast about the Church because it is the restoration of Christ's church on the Earth. And because it is the way in which we can receive revelation from God here on Earth through His Prophet. It is about so many things other than the fact that we are imperfect saints trying our best to do our callings, befriend each member in the ward, and keep our own mental health up to par. We're gonna screw up a lot, no matter if we're a member of the Church or not. You don't get special skills once you become a member. I mean that would be really cool and all, but you're still just a normal human. Just with the added benefit of great blessings from heaven and a knowledge of the plan of salvation. 

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3 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

I think a little background on me will be helpful to understanding my thoughts better. I was born into the church as was baptized on my eighth birthday. The thing is I had an extremely hard time believing the church was true and I never liked going to church. It was just what we did at my house and I despised my parents for forcing me to go every week and looked forward to excuses to get out of it, gladly taking jobs on Sunday as a teenager so I wouldn't have to go to church. we had a lot of us in my ward that worked on Sundays so the Bishop even started having 8:00 pm sacrament meetings  for those who work during the day to still be able to come renew covenants - it was insult to injury, I couldn't win, I still ended up at church on Sunday.

I longed for the day I'd graduate high school and move out and say good riddance to all that churchy stuff. Before that all happened though I wanted to be sure the church was wrong, so I gave it a last ditch effort. I felt like the only way I could feel sure is if I could say that I read the Book of Mormon cover to cover and prayed to know whether or not it was true and still received no answer or perhaps even received and answer to the negative. As it turned out I read the Book of Mormon for the first time through and prayed and felt a feeling of great peace and love which I felt was my answer that the Book of Mormon is true. Once I had a real testimony I found church to be much less frustrating. I wasn't just wasting my time, but actually working toward something of value and renewing covenants that mattered instead of being held to a standard that may not actually have any real meaning. After that time I went on to serve a mission and succeeded at personal scripture study daily for a seven year time frame wherein I only missed a maximum of two-weeks in all that time. During this phase in my life when I was very consistent with my scripture study, I found church to be something I occasionally would even find myself looking forward to.

When I got married, family life threw some great challenges into my routine of scripture study and I've never been able to get back to the consistency I had for that seven-year span. I've also noticed that I don't find church as interesting, nor do I find life in general as hopeful as I used to. Now that may not all be related to scripture study, but I'm going to say that personal scripture study and personal testimony make a huge difference into how one perceives church enjoyment.

I can also say that being called to repentance saps more of my energy when I am guilty of greater sins. Constantly being reminded to read scriptures when i am failing to do so is kind of defeating. Constantly being reminded to do the now defunct home teaching that requires me to see a single sister with a companion who is MIA and not having others willing to go - it feels defeating. Post-poning missionary service for almost a year while trying to clear up chastity issues can feel very VERY defeating. On the flip side though overcoming these shortcomings can really strengthen faith in Christ and is so freeing.

I have also always enjoyed being physically fit. I have generally always enjoyed exercise - I was the kid in gym class who would hold up his hand when the teacher asked who wanted to run more laps. As I am getting older I find exercise less enjoyable than I did in my younger years, but I still value my physical fitness and do it anyway for the health and performance benefits. So while I may no longer get the same enjoyment out of hoisting over twice my bodyweight for multiple repetitions, I do greatly enjoy being able to play hard with my kids, move furniture without trouble, climb stairs without being winded and leaving the doctor's office with good blood work. Sometimes, I think of going to church a little bit in the same way. Maybe while I'm sitting there in the pew trying to listen to a talk while my toddler is squirming everywhere, my baby is crying and I just want a nap I don't find it terribly enjoyable all the time. But when someone wants a blessing, or is getting married in the temple and I'm confident that I've been doing my part to be worthy to participate as invited it's a great and fulfilling experience. Without going to church as part of this process I wouldn't be spiritually fit enough to just up and do these things that I not only enjoy, but bring some of the greatest meaning in this life.

Thank you!  I really enjoyed your comment.

As far as The Book of Mormon goes I already know it is true. My old mentor is a polygamist and they are very proficient with the scriptures.  They still use the original patterns of the garment, still use the penalties in their endowments and live the law of consecration . Needless to say I am getting a rather watered down version of things but I am okay with that. I would rather be authorized to do something than be doing it without The Lord. *And no they don't dress like pioneers, they look like everyone else. lol

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5 minutes ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

You don't get special skills once you become a member. I mean that would be really cool and all, but you're still just a normal human. Just with the added benefit of great blessings from heaven and a knowledge of the plan of salvation

Awww Mannn!!!!  Lame   C;

 

lol

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5 minutes ago, Overwatch said:

As far as The Book of Mormon goes I already know it is true. 

To me this is a big thing. I know members (I'm in my mid 20's) who don't really have a testimony of this. 

My advice to you: don't make the idea of membership in the Church complicated (if you're contemplating it). Can we all be doing things to be better members? Yes, we will fall short every day until the day we leave this mortal existence. But I can promise you the blessings of this gospel outweigh any doubts or fears that may cloud your thoughts about the truthfulness of the Church. But that's just my 2 cents. 

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6 hours ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

To me this is a big thing. I know members (I'm in my mid 20's) who don't really have a testimony of this. 

My advice to you: don't make the idea of membership in the Church complicated (if you're contemplating it). Can we all be doing things to be better members? Yes, we will fall short every day until the day we leave this mortal existence. But I can promise you the blessings of this gospel outweigh any doubts or fears that may cloud your thoughts about the truthfulness of the Church. But that's just my 2 cents. 

This. Membership in the church is cultural, but also individual.  Don’t make it complicated.  Do you know the Book of Mormon is true?   Great.  Then you also know that Joseph Smith is the Prophet. Great.  Then you ALSO know you need to be baptized and follow the teachings of the church.  It’s not just for you.  It’s for your family.  Right now your House is living without the power of the priesthood.  

@BeccaKirstyn nailed it.  Christ’s message is perfect.  We aren’t.  Every day I try to be better than I was the day before.  I’m still an imperfect man.  Many of your posts come off extremely insulting to me.  At first I thought it intentional.  Now I’m not sure.  You point out a lot of flaws you see in our brothers and sisters.  Maybe look at your delivery or what you’re putting off?  In my past I’ve found that when I wasn’t received as I thought I would be it was because of my own walls or vibes.  Just a thought.  

It sounds as though you have all the pieces of the puzzle.  Why haven’t you put them together?  My only advice would be to roll up your sleeves and get to work.  Be the example to others who may be struggling.  

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21 minutes ago, Grunt said:

 Christ’s message is perfect.  We aren’t.  Every day I try to be better than I was the day before.  I’m still an imperfect man.  Many of your posts come off extremely insulting to me.  At first I thought it intentional.  Now I’m not sure.  [You point out a lot of flaws you see in our brothers and sisters]  Maybe look at your delivery or what you’re putting off?  In my past I’ve found that when I wasn’t received as I thought I would be it was because of my own walls or vibes.  Just a thought.  

I am running out the door but I will try to jump on later.

Here is a message from a very prominent leader of yours

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2006/10/and-nothing-shall-offend-them?lang=eng

See ya in a bit man

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36 minutes ago, Overwatch said:

I am running out the door but I will try to jump on later.

Here is a message from a very prominent leader of yours

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2006/10/and-nothing-shall-offend-them?lang=eng

See ya in a bit man

Thank you for that.  There are many aspects of becoming more Christ-like in which I fail miserably.  However, choosing not to be offended doesn’t excuse the offender.  I’m merely saying sometimes introspection is often enlightening.  

I too am out the door for my daily long run.  Prophet Talks instead of music today.  Gene Simmons will have to wait.  

Edited by Grunt
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1 hour ago, Grunt said:

 However, choosing not to be offended doesn’t excuse the offender.

Very true, but the intent for the offender is what really matters.

For example in Spanish saying someone is fat is not offensive, why? b/c it is an accurate description.  The person who says "he/she is fat" is not intending it as an insult or to make fun-it is a description and therefore should not be offensive.

US (and Western culture in general) culture has gone so far in the direction of not trying to offend that it is literally restricting our ability to actually think.  All the responsibility is being put on the offender to not say something offensive, well how in the world does the offender know if something is offensive?  Today it's the mob reaction.  If the mob tells you it's offensive then by edict it is offensive-which is totally against any Christian teachings and leads to some very, very bad outcomes b/c again people won't be able to have honest conversations and that is very bad.

We see it here on this board plenty of times, someone comes in and says something that is "controversial" people GET offended and then tell that person off, when the original person was not intending offense. The OP says I don't intend to offend, the response is "well you did offend me".  It's used as a weapon and as a mechanism to shut off any type of conversation and/or arguments that the other person doesn't want to hear. Just claim it offends someone and you effectively close the debate; it restricts the ability to bring in data, facts, or thoughts simply b/c it is deemed "offensive".

Choosing not to be offended means that one assumes the intent of the offender is to NOT offend, therefore regardless of how or what words are said the offendee doesn't take offense.  The offender has the responsibility to not intend to offend.

Edited by dellme
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1 hour ago, dellme said:

Choosing not to be offended means that one assumes the intent of the offender is to NOT offend, therefore regardless of how or what words are said the offendee doesn't take offense.  The offender has the responsibility to not intend to offend.

Speaking of restricting our ability to think....

1 hour ago, dellme said:

It's used as a weapon and as a mechanism to shut off any type of conversation and/or arguments that the other person doesn't want to hear. Just claim it offends someone and you effectively close the debate; it restricts the ability to bring in data, facts, or thoughts simply b/c it is deemed "offensive".

Or just claim someone is choosing to take offense and thereby shut down the conversation? :)

I think I need to go re-study the concept of irony as I might have just tripped over it, but I'm not sure.

Where did @mordorbund put that pot...?

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1 hour ago, Vort said:
13 hours ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

You don't get special skills once you become a member.

Except for the adamantium claws.

I was going to mention that you forgot the horns, except I realized, neither the horns nor the claws are special skills.  So, BeccaKirstyn is correct - no special skills, just special accessories. :satan:

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5 hours ago, Grunt said:

Thank you for that.  There are many aspects of becoming more Christ-like in which I fail miserably.  However, choosing not to be offended doesn’t excuse the offender.  I’m merely saying sometimes introspection is often enlightening.  

I too am out the door for my daily long run.  Prophet Talks instead of music today.  Gene Simmons will have to wait.  

Np. I thought you might you like it.

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1 hour ago, zil said:

Speaking of restricting our ability to think....

Or just claim someone is choosing to take offense and thereby shut down the conversation? :)

I think I need to go re-study the concept of irony as I might have just tripped over it, but I'm not sure.

Where did @mordorbund put that pot...?

?? What are you talking about.  

No, claiming someone is taking offense doesn't shut down the conversation unless all you are doing is arguing about who is taking offense, which is ludicrous.  A lot more conversations in today's society boil down to  "you said something offense, so I'm going to be mean to you", vs. "you are taking offense, so I'm going to be mean to you".

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3 hours ago, dellme said:

Very true, but the intent for the offender is what really matters.

For example in Spanish saying someone is fat is not offensive, why? b/c it is an accurate description.  The person who says "he/she is fat" is not intending it as an insult or to make fun-it is a description and therefore should not be offensive.

US (and Western culture in general) culture has gone so far in the direction of not trying to offend that it is literally restricting our ability to actually think.  All the responsibility is being put on the offender to not say something offensive, well how in the world does the offender know if something is offensive?  Today it's the mob reaction.  If the mob tells you it's offensive then by edict it is offensive-which is totally against any Christian teachings and leads to some very, very bad outcomes b/c again people won't be able to have honest conversations and that is very bad.

We see it here on this board plenty of times, someone comes in and says something that is "controversial" people GET offended and then tell that person off, when the original person was not intending offense. The OP says I don't intend to offend, the response is "well you did offend me".  It's used as a weapon and as a mechanism to shut off any type of conversation and/or arguments that the other person doesn't want to hear. Just claim it offends someone and you effectively close the debate; it restricts the ability to bring in data, facts, or thoughts simply b/c it is deemed "offensive".

Choosing not to be offended means that one assumes the intent of the offender is to NOT offend, therefore regardless of how or what words are said the offendee doesn't take offense.  The offender has the responsibility to not intend to offend.

Yes!

Couldn't have said it better. Sometimes you are just done walking on eggshells. Obviously a courtesy filter should be applied at times but being honest sometimes is just raw :C   I mean, I have been told things straight up and it often sucks at first but if you think about it sometimes has some validity to it OR not; just depends.

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1 hour ago, zil said:

Speaking of restricting our ability to think....

Or just claim someone is choosing to take offense and thereby shut down the conversation? :)

I think I need to go re-study the concept of irony as I might have just tripped over it, but I'm not sure.

Where did @mordorbund put that pot...?

Sup Zil,

what did I miss? Are you guys tag teaming Dellme?

"Let's get em!" [insert something: witty, clever, low key rude, cheeky enough to not get banned] type, type, type SEND  "Oh yeah!" "Gotteem!"  Team celebration. Thumbs up all around [ 👍] yeeeee

lol

Back from some long meetings *all joking aside good to see you all

*Email protected?  Lame, my @    face doesn't work anymore.

Edited by Overwatch
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1 minute ago, Overwatch said:

Yes!

Couldn't have said it better. Sometimes you are just done walking on eggshells. Obviously a courtesy filter should be applied at times but being honest sometimes is just raw :C   I mean, I have been told things straight up and it often sucks at first but if you think about it sometimes has some validity to it OR not; just depends.

The older I have gotten in life the more done I am in general with walking on eggshells, b/c you eventually get to a certain point where you realize how much of the problems in life really are just bull.  And the people who have helped me out most in life are the ones who have given it to me straight with no fluffy junk around the edges.

And IMO, if someone thinks they have to use fluffy words to not "offend" me, then they don't really think too much of me-b/c it indicates to me that they don't think I have a strong enough mind to be able to emotionally deal with whatever they say.  And that is what has really happened in society, it is an infantilization of society, so you can't ever have the hard conversations b/c we treat each other like emotional infants who can't handle certain words, thoughts, or emotions.

It's ironic, 50 years ago people were much more courteous, but not as afraid to speak their mind (they said yes sir, no sir, opened doors etc.).  Today people are less courteous and more afraid to speak their mind . . .ironic isn't it.

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1 minute ago, Overwatch said:

Sup Zil,

what did I miss? Are you guys tag teaming Dellme?

"Let's get em!" [insert something: witty, clever, low key rude, cheeky enough to not get banned] type, type, type SEND  "Oh yeah!" "Gotteem!"  Team celebration. Thumbs up all around [ 👍] yeeeee

lol

Back from some long meetings @..@  *all joking aside good to see you all

Now it's my turn to be confused.  I have no idea what you're trying to say, and no idea who the "team" members would be.  I'll respond to @dellme when I'm done typing said response.

PS: I'm pretty sure you and dellme are more upset about [something] than anyone else here is.

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