lostinwater Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 i'd never say never. But, i most definitely wouldn't take @NeuroTypical up on his bet. That is one i think he would win. And please scour these sources. There's a lot of false claims out there - which is really sad. i want to make sure i'm not spreading lies inadvertently. "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so. " - Brigham Young, JoD Vol 10, Page 110 http://jod.mrm.org/10/104 In short, as far as the common comforts of life, salvation, light, truth, enjoyment, and understanding are concerned, the Black African has precisely the same privilege as the white man. But they cannot share in the Priesthood; they cannot bear rule; they cannot bear rule in any place until the curse is removed from them; they are a “servant of servants.” ..... When the Lord God cursed old Cain, He said, “Until the last drop of Abel’s blood receives the Priesthood, and enjoys the blessings of the same, Cain shall bear the curse;” then Cain is calculated to have his share next and not until then; consequently, I am firm in the belief that they ought to dwell in servitude. ..... I would like masters to behave well to their servants, and to see that every person in this territory is well used. When a master has a Negro and uses him well, he is much better off than if he was free. As for masters knocking them down and whipping them and breaking the limbs of their servants, I have as little opinion of that as any person can have; but good wholesome servitude, I know there is nothing better than that. http://mit.irr.org/brigham-young-we-must-believe-in-slavery-23-january-1852 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 2 hours ago, pwrfrk said: If.... The LDS were to "legalize" homosexuality and make it permissible for homosexuals to get temple recommends and hold positions in branch/ward-stake-area leadership.... Would that make the church more of a True Church, or less of one? And why? Less. Because it would be openly legitimizing sinful conduct. Duh. What a stupid question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, Vort said: What a stupid question. Maybe the question doesn't like you either pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fether Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 53 minutes ago, lostinwater said: i'd never say never. But, i most definitely wouldn't take @NeuroTypical up on his bet. That is one i think he would win. And please scour these sources. There's a lot of false claims out there - which is really sad. i want to make sure i'm not spreading lies inadvertently. "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so. " - Brigham Young, JoD Vol 10, Page 110 http://jod.mrm.org/10/104 In short, as far as the common comforts of life, salvation, light, truth, enjoyment, and understanding are concerned, the Black African has precisely the same privilege as the white man. But they cannot share in the Priesthood; they cannot bear rule; they cannot bear rule in any place until the curse is removed from them; they are a “servant of servants.” ..... When the Lord God cursed old Cain, He said, “Until the last drop of Abel’s blood receives the Priesthood, and enjoys the blessings of the same, Cain shall bear the curse;” then Cain is calculated to have his share next and not until then; consequently, I am firm in the belief that they ought to dwell in servitude. ..... I would like masters to behave well to their servants, and to see that every person in this territory is well used. When a master has a Negro and uses him well, he is much better off than if he was free. As for masters knocking them down and whipping them and breaking the limbs of their servants, I have as little opinion of that as any person can have; but good wholesome servitude, I know there is nothing better than that. http://mit.irr.org/brigham-young-we-must-believe-in-slavery-23-january-1852 “a man who has has the Affrican blood in him cannot hold one jot nor tittle of preisthood; Why? because they are the true eternal principals the Lord Almighty has ordained, and who can help it, men cannot. the angels cannot, and all the powers of earth and hell cannot take it off, but thus saith the Eternal I am, what I am, I take it off at my pleasure, and not one partical of power can that posterity of Cain have, until the time comes the says he will have it taken away. That time will come when they will have the privilege of all we have the privelege of and more.” http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/brigham1852feb5_priesthoodandblacks.htm this too pwrfrk and lostinwater 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 56 minutes ago, lostinwater said: i'd never say never. I wouldn't either, but the church knows it would cause a massive schism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 3 hours ago, pwrfrk said: If.... The LDS were to "legalize" homosexuality and make it permissible for homosexuals to get temple recommends and hold positions in branch/ward-stake-area leadership.... Would that make the church more of a True Church, or less of one? And why? How would it affect you and the roles you currently have in church? I ask this because now homosexuality is a big mess, nationally. And back in the 70's race was a big mess as well, and the Church opened its doors to non-whites. What keeps that from happening now? And if it did, what would you do? Women are more likely to obtain the priesthood than practicing homosexual relations to no longer be seen as apostate behavior. pwrfrk and zil 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Anddenex said: Women are more likely to obtain the priesthood than practicing homosexual relations to no longer be seen as apostate behavior. That would cause a schism too, in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, MormonGator said: That would cause a schism too, in my view. Yes, I think for some for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Anddenex said: Yes, I think for some for sure. Yup. The money comes from the conservative/orthodox members. If they church ordains women or approves of gay marriage (Btw, I would love to see both of those things happen) conservative/orthodox members will break away. The church knows this. Edited July 20, 2018 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Yup. The money comes from the conservative/orthodox members. If they church ordains women or approves of gay marriage (Btw, I would love to see both of those things happen) conservative/orthodox members will break away. The church knows this. Well MG, I am not surprised. Gators eat their own offspring, so loving to see these things happen isn't a stretch. Yes, I would say the Church does; although, history would say the Church doesn't appear to be so much concerned with a falling away if the Lord commands something. This same statement could be made when polygamy was introduced in the 1800s. The same when it was prohibited, banned. The same for blacks receiving the priesthood. The question we have to ask, is the Church following revealed doctrine. One of the options mentioned doesn't negate any revealed doctrine, policy, or practice save that it has never been done, nor do we see any evidence saying it will. The other policy/doctrine would change "corruption" to "incorruption." This would be different shift and policy. zil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 So, the suggestions here are that the Church follows the commands of God because they are afraid the money will dry up, not because God wills it? Midwest LDS and Vort 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, Grunt said: So, the suggestions here are that the Church follows the commands of God because they are afraid the money will dry up, not because God wills it? lol. Yes, that was exactly what I was inferring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fether Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 19 minutes ago, Grunt said: So, the suggestions here are that the Church follows the commands of God because they are afraid the money will dry up, not because God wills it? I keep the commandments partly for the same reason “follow the prophet, in this There is safety and peace” and “inasmuch as he shall keep the commandments, ya shall prosper on the land” are some incredibly motivating promises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, MormonGator said: lol. Yes, that was exactly what I was inferring. I know. I find it odd that you wish for so many things that are in opposition to God's commands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Grunt said: I know. I find it odd that you wish for so many things that are in opposition to God's commands. It wasn't what I was inferring at all, I thought your were kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinwater Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 48 minutes ago, Anddenex said: Well MG, I am not surprised. Gators eat their own offspring, so loving to see these things happen isn't a stretch. Now that - that's a really, really, really bad joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 minute ago, lostinwater said: Now that - that's a really, really, really bad joke. It's from @Anddenex. What did you expect? (He knows I think he's a great guy! Just playing!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, lostinwater said: Now that - that's a really, really, really bad joke. No it wasn't. It was a great joke. lostinwater 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Anddenex said: No it wasn't. It was a great joke. Only if you write for Leno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Only if you write for Leno. Start at 2:15 -- you may be right considering this thread: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I didn't know @mirkwood had a Ph.D Edited July 20, 2018 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinwater Posted July 21, 2018 Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Anddenex said: No it wasn't. It was a great joke. As long as it's not just you who was laughing. It sounds like that was the case (i hope). Anyways, an apology from too-literal @lostinwater is needed, and meekly offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted July 21, 2018 Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 40 minutes ago, lostinwater said: As long as it's not just you who was laughing. It sounds like that was the case (i hope). Anyways, an apology from too-literal @lostinwater is needed, and meekly offered. Even if I was the only one laughing, it just means I am the only one with a sense of humor. No apology necessary. There are plenty of jokes I don't find funny that other people are rolling. But thank you anyway. lostinwater 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted July 21, 2018 Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) I get lost in the sarcasm and HA HA HAs. Edited July 21, 2018 by Grunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 21, 2018 Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, Grunt said: I get lost in the sarcasm and HA HA HAs. I'm English. My sense of humor is so dry that even I don't know if I'm being sarcastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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