The Word (Logos)

[wenglund]

I am interested in learning what you all believe is meant by "the Word," particularly as it relates to the first 5 verses of John 1

According to the Joseph Smith Translation, the Word is "the gospel preached .through the Son."

Of course, this can have layers of meaning and applications just as with the designation "the Word."

According to Wikipedia regarding Logos (Word),  "Despite the conventional translation as "word", it is not used for a word in the grammatical sense; instead, the term lexis (λέξις, léxis) was used.^[9] However, bothl Logos and lexis derive from the same verb légō (λέγω), meaning "(I) count, tell, say, speak".^[1][9][10] (bold mine)

What I find interesting about this is, that verse 3 of John 1 Indicates that, "All things were made by him [i.e. the Word, God the Son, or the Gospel through Christ]; and without him was not anything made that was made." (bold mine) 

Whereas, throughout the creation narrative of Gen. 1, we read:  "And God said..." (bold mine)

This suggests to me that "the Word" or Logos, is a means of creation. By virtue of speaking, or through the application of language and reason (another connotation of Logos), order may be brought out of chaos (Gen. 1), and light separated from darkness (Gen. 1:1-5 and Jn 1:4-5)

I see this as tying in to the gospel through Christ (the Word), not only during the pre-existence, but also during mortality and beyond.

As for the pre-existence, and expanding upon the JST of Jn 1 in connection with Gen. 1,  the gospel was preached, or in other words the Plan of Progression was presented, and the light was separated from darkness, or rather those who accepted the Plan were separated from those who rejected it. Those who followed Christ were separated from those who followed Satan.

Furthermore, in terms of mortality and beyond, by way of the preaching the gospel through Christ, then out of the chaos of natural man is created a new creature, a spiritual man like unto Christ. (there are many scriptures that could be quoted, but I trust many have already come to your mind)

Fun stuff. What do you think?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Rob Osborn]

11 minutes ago, wenglund said:

I am interested in learning what you all believe is meant by "the Word," particularly as it relates to the first 5 verses of John 1

According to the Joseph Smith Translation, the Word is "the gospel preached .through the Son."

Of course, this can have layers of meaning and applications just as with the designation "the Word."

According to Wikipedia regarding Logos (Word),  "Despite the conventional translation as "word", it is not used for a word in the grammatical sense; instead, the term lexis (λέξις, léxis) was used.^[9] However, bothl Logos and lexis derive from the same verb légō (λέγω), meaning "(I) count, tell, say, speak".^[1][9][10] (bold mine)

What I find interesting about this is, that verse 3 of John 1 Indicates that, "All things were made by him [i.e. the Word, God the Son, or the Gospel through Christ]; and without him was not anything made that was made." (bold mine) 

Whereas, throughout the creation narrative of Gen. 1, we read:  "And God said..." (bold mine)

This suggests to me that "the Word" or Logos, is a means of creation. By virtue of speaking, or through the application of language and reason (another connotation of Logos), order may be brought out of chaos (Gen. 1), and light separated from darkness (Gen. 1:1-5 and Jn 1:4-5)

I see this as tying in to the gospel through Christ (the Word), not only during the pre-existence, but also during mortality and beyond.

As for the pre-existence, and expanding upon the JST of Jn 1 in connection with Gen. 1,  the gospel was preached, or in other words the Plan of Progression was presented, and the light was separated from darkness, or rather those who accepted the Plan were separated from those who rejected it. Those who followed Christ were separated from those who followed Satan.

Furthermore, in terms of mortality and beyond, by way of the preaching the gospel through Christ, then out of the chaos of natural man is created a new creature, a spiritual man like unto Christ. (there are many scriptures that could be quoted, but I trust many have already come to your mind)

Fun stuff. What do you think?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

If we could actually see our words through spiritual eyes it would be sequences of actual spiritual matter in varioys arrangements.

[wenglund]

29 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

If we could actually see our words through spiritual eyes it would be sequences of actual spiritual matter in varioys arrangements.

That may be true. However, I am hoping to keep the discussion limited to what can reasonably and non-controversially be surmised from the scriptures and other material published by the church. 

Or, in other words, I am hoping the discussion will be confined to those things that help enable us in following Christ and becoming like him.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

[mikbone]

In the Lectures on Faith we see over and over that Faith is Power.  

And the word of God is sacrosanct.  

We see repetitively, in the creation, in the very first chapter of scripture - the words "And God said,"   And it was.

God's word is his power.  Unlike men who say things and routinely do not keep their word, God always does.  

This is why we need lawyers and contracts with hundreds of pages of text...

But the Atonement of Jesus Christ functioned proactively.  Because Jehovah agreed (and gave his word) to become our Savior in the beginning, it was as if the atonement had already occurred.

Imagine His voice as the voice of many waters (Revelations 14:2) speaking the Adamic tongue.  The power to command and create.  

Edited January 24, 2019 by mikbone

[wenglund]

27 minutes ago, mikbone said:

In the Lectures on Faith we see over and over that Faith is Power.  

And the word of God is sacrosanct.  

We see repetitively in the creation in the very first chapter of scripture the words "And God said,"   And it was.

God's word is his power.  Unlike men who say things and routinely do not keep their word, God always does.  

This is why we need lawyers and contracts with hundreds of pages of text...

But the Atonement of Jesus Christ functioned proactively.  Because Jehovah agreed (and gave his word) to become our Savior in the beginning, it was as if the atonement had already occurred.

Imagine His voice as the voice of many waters (Revelations 14:2) speaking the Adamic tongue.  The power to command and create.  

By logical extension, as we become more like Christ, we likewise gain the power to command and create--as manifest not only with priesthood blessings, and sealing in heaven that which is sealed on earth, but also through preaching the gospel, which, as previously intimated, has the power, through Christ,  to change natures and give life and light to those in darkness who are willing to receive it.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[mikbone]

1 minute ago, wenglund said:

By logical extension, as we become more like Christ, we likewise gain the power to command and create--as manifest not only with priesthood blessings, and sealing in heaven that which is sealed on earth, but also through preaching the gospel, which, as previously intimated, has the power, through Christ,  to change natures and give life and light to those in darkness who are willing to receive it.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Not there yet.  Just ask my 4 year old.  

[CV75]

1 hour ago, wenglund said:

By logical extension, as we become more like Christ, we likewise gain the power to command and create--as manifest not only with priesthood blessings, and sealing in heaven that which is sealed on earth, but also through preaching the gospel, which, as previously intimated, has the power, through Christ,  to change natures and give life and light to those in darkness who are willing to receive it.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Helaman 6:10 - onward shows one interesting facet of the sealing power in this regard.

EDIT: That's Helaman 10:6 - onward... (thank you @zil ! )

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by CV75

[zil]

1 minute ago, CV75 said:

Helaman 6:10

  10 Now the land south was called ^aLehi, and the land north was called ^bMulek, which was after the ^cson of Zedekiah; for the Lord did bring Mulek into the land north, and Lehi into the land south.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

A-well-a ev'rybody's heard about the bird
B-b-b-bird, b-birdd's a word
A-well, a bird, bird, bird, bird is a word
A-well, a bird, bird, bird, well-a bird is a word
A-well, a bird, bird, bird, b-bird's a word
A-well, a bird, bird, bird, well-a bird is a word
A-well, a bird, bird, b-bird is a word
A-well, a bird, bird, bird, b-bird's a word
A-well, a bird, bird, bird, well-a bird is a word
A-well, a bird, bird, b-bird's a word
A-well-a don't you know about the bird?
Well, everybody knows that the bird is a word

A-well-a-bird, bird, b-bird's a word, a-well-a

A-well-a everybody's heard about the bird
Bird, bird, bird, b-bird's a word
A-well, a bird, bird, bird, b-bird's a word
A-well, a bird, bird, bird, b-bird's a word
A-well, a bird, bird, b-bird's a word
A-well, a bird, bird, bird, b-bird's a word
A-well, a bird, bird, bird, b-bird's a word
A-well, a bird, bird, bird, b-bird's a word
A-well, a bird, bird, bird, b-bird's a word
A-well-a don't you know about the bird?
Well, everybody's talking about the bird!

A-well-a bird, bird, b-bird's the word
A-well-a bird, surfing bird, brrrrrrrrpagh!
Aaah, bap-a-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pap

Ma-ma-mow, pa-pa, ma-ma-mow, pa-pa
Ma-ma-mow, pa-pa, ma-ma-mow, pa-pa
Ma-ma-mow, pa-pa, ma-ma-mow, pa-pa
Ma-ma-mow, pa-pa, ma-ma-mow, pa-pa
Ma-ma-mow, pa-pa, ma-ma-mow, pa-pa
Ma-ma-mow, pa-pa, ma-ma-mow, pa-pa
Ma-ma-ma-ma-mow, pa-pa, ma-ma-mow, pa-pa
Ma-ma-ma-ma-mow, pa-pa, ma-ma-mow, pa-pa
Ma-ma-mow, pa-pa, ma-ma-mow, pa-pa
Ma-ma-mow, pa-pa, ma-ma-mow, pa-pa
Ma-ma-mow, ma-ma-mow, pa-pa
Ma-ma-mow, ma-ma-mow, pa-pa
Ma-ma-ma-ma, ma-ma-mow
Ma-ma-ma-ma, ma-ma-mow
Ma-ma-mow, pa-pa, ma-ma-mow, pa-pa
Ma-ma-mow, pa-pa, ma-ma-mow

A-well-a don't you know about the bird?
Well, everybody knows that the bird is a word

A-well, a bird, bird, b-bird's a word
A-well-a mow, mow, pa-pa, ma-ma-mow, pa-pa
Ma-ma-mow, ma-ma, mow, pa-pa
Ma-ma-mow, ma-ma, mow, pa-pa
Ma-ma-mow, ma-ma, mow, pa-pa

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

But, seriously, the Word is a reference to the Gospel message of salvation through the teachings and Atonement of Jesus Christ, the creator of the heaven and Earth.

[Rob Osborn]

1 hour ago, wenglund said:

That may be true. However, I am hoping to keep the discussion limited to what can reasonably and non-controversially be surmised from the scriptures and other material published by the church. 

Or, in other words, I am hoping the discussion will be confined to those things that help enable us in following Christ and becoming like him.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

There's power in words. Why do you think that? It's because they carry light- actual light. This is the power that causes belief, causes change, etc. It's not just audible frequency, it carries with it specified intelligent information in the form of light sequence.

[wenglund]

2 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

There's power in words. Why do you think that? It's because they carry light- actual light. This is the power that causes belief, causes change, etc. It's not just audible frequency, it carries with it specified intelligent information in the form of light sequence.

It isn't that I disagree with what you have said on this thread. It is just that you seem incapable of comprehending my hope for the thread. 

All the best.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Rob Osborn]

1 minute ago, wenglund said:

It isn't that I disagree with what you have said on this thread. It is just that you seem incapable of comprehending my hope for the thread. 

All the best.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

It adds, maybe not for you but for someone. Take no offense, it's something that should cause us to contemplate about our words, especially us who are baptized- we speak with the tongue of angels.

[wenglund]

2 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

It adds, maybe not for you but for someone. Take no offense, it's something that should cause us to contemplate about our words, especially us who are baptized- we speak with the tongue of angels.

The canonized words from the tongues of angles tend to be scripture-based, and even quote scriptures. But, perhaps you are the exception.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[CV75]

1 hour ago, zil said:

  10 Now the land south was called ^aLehi, and the land north was called ^bMulek, which was after the ^cson of Zedekiah; for the Lord did bring Mulek into the land north, and Lehi into the land south.

Ha-ha thank you! Helaman 10:6 - onward

 

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, wenglund said:

The canonized words from the tongues of angles tend to be scripture-based, and even quote scriptures. But, perhaps you are the exception.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

You don't even know what it means to speak with the tongue of angels do you? Go research it.

[Jersey Boy]

6 hours ago, wenglund said:

I am interested in learning what you all believe is meant by "the Word," particularly as it relates to the first 5 verses of John 1

According to the Joseph Smith Translation, the Word is "the gospel preached .through the Son."

Of course, this can have layers of meaning and applications just as with the designation "the Word."

According to Wikipedia regarding Logos (Word),  "Despite the conventional translation as "word", it is not used for a word in the grammatical sense; instead, the term lexis (λέξις, léxis) was used.^[9] However, bothl Logos and lexis derive from the same verb légō (λέγω), meaning "(I) count, tell, say, speak".^[1][9][10] (bold mine)

What I find interesting about this is, that verse 3 of John 1 Indicates that, "All things were made by him [i.e. the Word, God the Son, or the Gospel through Christ]; and without him was not anything made that was made." (bold mine) 

Whereas, throughout the creation narrative of Gen. 1, we read:  "And God said..." (bold mine)

This suggests to me that "the Word" or Logos, is a means of creation. By virtue of speaking, or through the application of language and reason (another connotation of Logos), order may be brought out of chaos (Gen. 1), and light separated from darkness (Gen. 1:1-5 and Jn 1:4-5)

I see this as tying in to the gospel through Christ (the Word), not only during the pre-existence, but also during mortality and beyond.

As for the pre-existence, and expanding upon the JST of Jn 1 in connection with Gen. 1,  the gospel was preached, or in other words the Plan of Progression was presented, and the light was separated from darkness, or rather those who accepted the Plan were separated from those who rejected it. Those who followed Christ were separated from those who followed Satan.

Furthermore, in terms of mortality and beyond, by way of the preaching the gospel through Christ, then out of the chaos of natural man is created a new creature, a spiritual man like unto Christ. (there are many scriptures that could be quoted, but I trust many have already come to your mind)

Fun stuff. What do you think?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

It means Christ is the living embodiment of the word of God, and the primary executor of God’s declared will. Without Christ, the Father’s words would be powerless and ineffectual. This is why the Father declares that Christ is the word of his power, or the divine being who gives power and effectuality to his words.

[wenglund]

4 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

You don't even know what it means to speak with the tongue of angels do you? Go research it.

I know what is a play on words.

And, I also know what it means to bang my head against a wall, though too often I am slow to react.

Bye.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited January 25, 2019 by wenglund

[Rob Osborn]

12 minutes ago, wenglund said:

I know what is a play on words.

And, I also know mat it means to bang my head against a wall, though too often I am slow to react.

Bye.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Bye

[wenglund]

3 hours ago, Jersey Boy said:

Without Christ, the Father’s words would be powerless and ineffectual. 

And, unless we accept Christ (the Word) into our lives,, and follow him, we likewise render God's words powerless and ineffectual, which in turn renders us powerless and ineffectual in the eternal scheme of things.(see the Parable of the Sower, see also Heb 4:2,12))

Whereas, "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." (Jm 1:18, see also Jn 5:24, 38,47 and 1 Pet 1:23,25)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited January 25, 2019 by wenglund

[wenglund]

3 hours ago, Jersey Boy said:

It means Christ is the living embodiment of the word of God, and the primary executor of God’s declared will. Without Christ, the Father’s words would be powerless and ineffectual. This is why the Father declares that Christ is the word of his power, or the divine being who gives power and effectuality to his words.

Also, his name is "called the Word of God." (Rev 19:13)

In addition to Christ, I believe that words, themselves, have power. Take for example the scripture that @CV75 quoted above, as well as the words of the Baptist in Mt 3:9, or the the request from Satan to Christ in Mt 4:3,6 in relation to Christ feeding the five thousand,  if not also the healing of the centurion's servant (Mt *:8,16)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited January 25, 2019 by wenglund

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

Words have power, especially names. At least two times in the Bible angels refuse to give their names. Mosiah talks about God knowing us by our names. In D&c 130 it says, 

11 And a white stone is given to each of those who come into the celestial kingdom, whereon is a new name written, which no man knoweth save he that receiveth it. The new name is the key word.

I think this is why Christ is sometimes called the Word.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Emmanuel Goldstein

[zil]

3 hours ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

At least two times in the Bible angels refuse to give their names.

Intriguing.  Will you tell us which two times you remember?

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

4 hours ago, zil said:

Intriguing.  Will you tell us which two times you remember?

Genesis 32

29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

Judges 13

18 And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?

 

[Traveler]

On 1/24/2019 at 12:45 PM, wenglund said:

Whereas, throughout the creation narrative of Gen. 1, we read:  "And God said..." (bold mine)

It would seem that there is a little more to creation than just G-d saying something and it was done.  For example look at the end of verse 12

Quote

and G-d saw that it was good.

As an engineer that designs many systems I have come to appreciate the art design, test and upgrade if necessary; creations I create and oversee to insure that they perform correctly according to all specifications and therefor are "good".  What we may be observing in scripture is the Father explaining to those working under him what he wants done - and then checking back later to make sure it was done "right".

 

The Traveler