How did we get here?

[anatess2]

18 hours ago, Scott said:

My comment was in response to the comment He does not talk about cheating on your spouse like it is a good thing.  This is not true. 

Context.  You tell me he promotes cheating on spouses and then you tell me you have to go to porn sites to get that information.  Now I tell you he expresses a different stance on it in a book with Donald Trump's name as the author and published for EVERYBODY's consumption among all the other things he has said to the general public.

[Just_A_Guy]

8 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

 You tell me he promotes cheating on spouses and then you tell me you have to go to porn sites to get that information. 

Anatess, Scott did *not* say that.  You know he didn’t say that; you’re twisting Scott’s words to create a false impression in the mind of your hearers.

And you were not known for doing that on this board, prior to 2016.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Just_A_Guy

[anatess2]

5 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Anatess, Scott did *not* say that.  You know he didn’t say that; you’re twisting Scott’s words to create a false impression in the mind of your hearers.

Sure.  Technical usage of "porn site" has meaning even as many people have different ideas of what constitutes as porn.  I apologize.  He simply mentioned he has to PM it to me because it's not fit for general consumption signifying its sleazy nature.

Quote

And you were not known for doing that on this board, prior to 2016.

Easy with that dig there, buddy.   You were not known for those unnecessary digs prior to 2016.

Edited February 26, 2020 by anatess2

[Just_A_Guy]

12 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Sure.  Technical usage of "porn site" has meaning even as many people have different ideas of what constitutes as porn.  I apologize.  He simply mentioned he has to PM it to me because it's not fit for general consumption signifying its sleazy nature.

Scott can speak for himself; but I’ve seen the quotes in question on sites that were not porn.  And as you well know, it isn’t just porn sites that are banned from linkage under the ThirdHour site rules.  Any problematic content may be subject to mod action, even if the “context” of that content was an innocuous network prime-time TV show (like “Access Hollywood”, for example).

One of the issues with ignoring D&C 98:10, is that trickle-down immorality is a thing.

Besides lying and slandering, what other things are Trump supporters finding themselves increasingly tempted to do in their personal lives because their idol has convinced them it’s OK?

Edited February 26, 2020 by Just_A_Guy

[anatess2]

Just now, Just_A_Guy said:

One of the issues with ignoring D&C 98:10, is that trickle-down immorality is a thing.

Ohh... wow.  You're working hard today. 

I really love it when people apply the morality of a politician to the people who support them.  I wonder why they don't apply the morality of CEOs to the company workers... or the moral degradation of the American Law Profession to lawyers and the people who hire them.

Anyway, if you think Trump is stumping on the campaign trail promoting promiscuity, be my guest.  I mean, he's already a racist, sexist, homophobe, I'm sure he's just fine adding that one to the list.

[NeuroTypical]

21 hours ago, Scott said:

On 2/25/2020 at 7:59 AM, anatess2 said:

He does not talk about cheating on your spouse like it is a good thing. 

Yes he has.; a lot of times. 

So, are we going to stop arguing about ways to characterize sleazy sites, or is someone going to step up to the plate and cite their source to prove Scott's claim?

Either provide a link to a source that doesn't violate forum rules, or copy/paste a quote or three and indicate the source?

The second one looks like this:

Quote

"Yer dang right I cheated on my first wife.  I'm the best at cheating on my wife.  Nobody cheats on their wife like me!  Here, have a MAGA hat!"
- Parody Donald Trump, from the fake site sleazybutnotpornnews, 2 October 2015

 

Scott made the claim, it's his to back up.  If nobody can back it up, then all reasonable people interested in the truth have the green light to discount the claim.  And think about Scott's future claims, as being made by a person who makes claims and doesn't back them up.

Edited February 26, 2020 by NeuroTypical

[Just_A_Guy]

10 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Ohh... wow.  You're working hard today. 

I really love it when people apply the morality of a politician to the people who support them.  I wonder why they don't apply the morality of CEOs to the company workers... or the moral degradation of the American Law Profession to lawyers and the people who hire them.

Anyway, if you think Trump is stumping on the campaign trail promoting promiscuity, be my guest.  I mean, he's already a racist, sexist, homophobe, I'm sure he's just fine adding that one to the list.

My point not primarily about sex, Anatess.

It’s about people who previously would never have compromised their moral standards on a variety of topics, suddenly compromising them—coincidentally (or not), around the same time they jumped on the Trump Train.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Just_A_Guy

[anatess2]

31 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

My point not primarily about sex, Anatess.

It’s about people who previously would never have compromised their moral standards on a variety of topics, suddenly compromising them—coincidentally (or not), around the same time they jumped on the Trump Train.

Really?  I compromised my moral standards? 

Go back to bed JAG, you're not awake yet.

[Traveler]

21 hours ago, Vort said:

Not sure what your point is, Scott. Trump lives after the manner of the world? I doubt anyone here argues against that point. Maybe my attention span is too short, but I don't see exactly what you're driving at.

For many of us, Trump looks kind of like the Jaredite Morianton, who did justice to his people but not himself. If you're trying to convince us that Trump often behaves in a telestial manner, I think you're preaching to the choir. If you're trying to convince us that it's bad to vote for Trump as US President, you'll have to convince us that any—ANY—of his opponents is better qualified, politically or morally.

Thank you for your post.  I believe this is at the core of why our country lies at the current crossroad and division.    The opponents of Trump are not better qualified.  It is my opinion that the current political climate in the USA is at best an embarrassment and more likely a tragedy - dare I say of Book of Mormon proportions? 

In the Book of Mormon we are told that this a promised land and those that inhabit this land are bound by covenant to serve G-d. In Isaiah (chapter 24); Isaiah says explicitly that we fall out of serving G-d by #1. Transgressing the Law, #2. Changing the Ordinances and #3 Breaking the Everlasting Covenant.  Fidelity in marriage, I believe, touches on all three of the failing warned by Isaiah.

I do not feel that I am called of G-d to be singled out to testify to this nation or to the Saints of G-d - But I would quote a prophet that said to this generation - "That there is no success in this world that will compensate for failure in the home."  I am aware that some of our elected officials (including presidents) have paid out large sums of money specifically to "hide" their indiscretions of infidelity.   We are warned in scripture about the use of wealth for "worldly" purposes.  The Book of Mormon also warns of governmental leaders that commit what the scriptures (BOM) call "whoredoms".   Especially when whoredoms as exercised by the leaders are made popular among the population.  It is my opinion that a nation that submits to allowing and encouraging whoredoms is approaching what is called "ripe" in iniquity.  The one remaining element is murder - especially the killing of innocent life which I believe can include the killing of children during the birthing process.  And as you have pointed out - the opposition to Trump are all firmly committed to such taking of life as a discretion of the mother.   And so it is that I believe Trump is better qualified than his opponents.

Never-the-less, Justifying Trump on the in-qualifications of his opponents is flawed logic - this would mean that anything can be justified by simply finding something worse.  I stated that I was concerned that with the failed impeachment and possible re-election that Trump is likely to be emboldened and assume more power than he should.   My logic is that such is so often the behavior of those in authority. (See D&C 121)

 

The Traveler

[Guest MormonGator]

9 minutes ago, Traveler said:

It is my opinion that the current political climate in the USA is at best an embarrassment and more likely a tragedy

I tend to agree with you, but then again, the voters elected these people. So we are all guilty. Everyone. From the Trumpers to the SJWs to the Never Trumpers to the moderates to the people who never vote. 

In the words of a terrible song, we must have got lost. Somewhere down the line. 

[Traveler]

28 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I tend to agree with you, but then again, the voters elected these people. So we are all guilty. Everyone. From the Trumpers to the SJWs to the Never Trumpers to the moderates to the people who never vote. 

In the words of a terrible song, we must have got lost. Somewhere down the line. 

I am very frustrated - knowing that I am as much a part of this as is anyone else.  I thought electing Trump would do more good draining the swamp.  My parents warned me when I was a youth - that the only way to accomplish good is by doing and supporting that which is good.  Compromising good may be better than horrible but it is never good.  And now I am in a position where all my choices are bad or worse.  At least that is what it appears to me to be.  Which is the question of this thread - how did we get here?

 

The Traveler

Edited February 26, 2020 by Traveler

[Guest MormonGator]

5 minutes ago, Traveler said:

And now I am in a position where all my choices are bad or worse.

Welcome to the adult world @Traveler. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but eventually most of us* realize that in the real world, we are often presented with "least worst" options that we must choose. 

*most of us realize this. Some, sadly, remain in a dream world no matter how old they get.

Edited February 26, 2020 by MormonGator

[dprh]

When it comes to politics in USA, it seems to me that just showing up and casting a ballot isn't enough to be considered part of any solution.  When choices A, B, C, and D are all bad, it's 'good' to pick the least bad option.  But to be part of making it better means going to caucuses, writing letters to representatives, joining groups that align with your values to increase the chance of being heard, or even throwing your hat into the ring.  We're way past the day of "Don't blame me, I didn't vote for him."  

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by dprh

[Just_A_Guy]

5 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Really?  I compromised my moral standards? 

Go back to bed JAG, you're not awake yet.

Well, you did falsely accuse @Scott of trolling through porn sites.

The degree to which that squares with your moral code—either pre- or post-2016–is naturally your own business.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Just_A_Guy

[NeedleinA]

I just looked a this thread for the first time right now. "Butter anyone?"

 

[Guest Godless]

Allegedly spotted in Provo. 

[Guest Scott]

14 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Technical usage of "porn site" has meaning even as many people have different ideas of what constitutes as porn.  I apologize.  He simply mentioned he has to PM it to me because it's not fit for general consumption signifying its sleazy nature.

No, I was not going to send you a porn site link, only some quotes with sources.   Trump has been in a porn film, but I have not watched it, will not watch it, and won't link to it.  That's not what I was referring to when I said sending via PM.  

Providing links to racy material is against the rules on the forum as I understand them.

Going back to your original claim though, here is what you said:

He does not talk about cheating on your spouse like it is a good thing. 

I won't provide a link to sleasy material, even if it's on youtube or the news, but the above isn't true.  Perhaps I can provide some edited (by myself) versions of the quotes he has said though.  Perhaps this is even crossing the line.  If the moderators feel it must be moderated, so be it.  The only changes I made to the words are when I replaces a certain word with (edited).  Everything else is word for word.

Let's start with one of the more mild ones.   These comments are from a married man (Trump).  Keep in mind that this was on a public radio show and not in private in some locker room or something:

Stern:  "Hey, so wait a second, get back to my question; let's say you're with a hot chick, right? But you're so germ paranoid, and I'm germ paranoid, do you say to them, 'look you've got to go take a medical test before I (edited) you.

Trump:  "Well, you'd like to say that, and sometimes you do. The problem is that sometimes your own chemicals take over and you can't wait."

Stern:  "So you'll just have straight intercourse with a rubber with them right?" 

Trump:  "Well, I don't know; you know there's lots of different ways of doing it. It's a very complicated subject. They say that more people were killed by women in this act than killed in Vietnam, OK.

Stern:  "Yes, that is true".

Trump:  "You know, you get criticized for that statement, but that statement is very easily true" .

Stern: "I even went as far to say that you're braver than any Vietnam vet because you're out there (edited)-ing a lot of women."

Trump:  "Getting the Congressional Medal of Honor in, actuality.  I'm having a good time, but Howard, you know the one negative: It's very, very dangerous out there".

Stern:  "Yes it is; it's your Vietnam".

Trump:  "It's Vietnam. It is very dangerous. So I'm very, very careful."

Do you honestly think that the above (out of many similar and worse things) said by Trump isn't promoting adultry or promiscuity?  In my eyes, there is no way anyone can logically think that it isn't.

Also notice that he said there is only one negative to having sex with all of these women and that the one negative to all of the adultry and promiscutity is STD risk.

There are many similar comments out there made by Trump and this is one of the more mild ones.  I won't go any further than this as far as posting them on the forum though.  This is enough to get the point across and I'm not even sure how close even posting an edited version is to crossing the line as far as forum rules go.  So you can go find the rest of the quotes on your own (or continue to ignore them and claim that Trump has never promoted adultry or promiscuity).  And no, you don't  have to go trolling porn sites to find any of what I was referring to.   If you want to vote for him; that's fine.   But I disagree with your comment about him never promoting adultry and promiscuity like it is "a good thing".  

Quote

Did he say that cheating on his wives was great, we should all do it... highly unlikely.

Maybe he didn't say those exact words and that we should all do it, but I think it is pretty obvious that he thinks it is great and has (or had) no problems bragging about it.   And on many, many occasions, not just this one.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Scott

[NeuroTypical]

Ok. I double-dog-dared Scott to substantiate his point, and I believe he has done so.  Thanks for no link there, individuals are free to google up their own verification of those quotes.