Born Again

[NoMiddleName]

I had a somewhat scattered but entertaining discussion with a born again gentleman. I didn't catch his whole backstory as he was jibbering and jabbering too much. 

After I had gone on to explain that my over all goal was to move to the states and be with my people, possibly starting my life as a saint properly and settling down, he rather condescendingly informed me that I would be '' planting a generation of hellbound seeds ''. 

The discussion ( although random ) was civil enough but I was mildly amused at him thinking he could shake my testimony. He had just been dispensing all manner of flyers and pamphlets about this and that. 

I haven't had a good talk with someone from a random encounter since the Jehovas about  four years ago. 

Anybody else have any tips or stories regarding such people. Normally I'd keep walking but today I had some time to kill and the summer hasn't left us altogether so it was pleasant enough for a stop and talk.  

 

[NeuroTypical]

2 hours ago, NoMiddleName said:

Anybody else have any tips or stories regarding such people. 

Tips for what?  How to spot/avoid them?  How to change their opinions about things?

I haven't been preached to by a born again person in a couple decades.  But I did have an immensely enjoyable 3 hour long conversation with an atheist last month.  Both of us talking 100 miles an hour, totally respectful.  We managed to solve pretty much all of the world's problems in that conversation, but neither of us budged a single inch on our beliefs about God.

[Vort]

5 hours ago, NoMiddleName said:

I had a somewhat scattered but entertaining discussion with a born again gentleman. I didn't catch his whole backstory as he was jibbering and jabbering too much. 

After I had gone on to explain that my over all goal was to move to the states and be with my people, possibly starting my life as a saint properly and settling down, he rather condescendingly informed me that I would be '' planting a generation of hellbound seeds ''. 

The discussion ( although random ) was civil enough but I was mildly amused at him thinking he could shake my testimony. He had just been dispensing all manner of flyers and pamphlets about this and that. 

I haven't had a good talk with someone from a random encounter since the Jehovas about  four years ago. 

Anybody else have any tips or stories regarding such people. Normally I'd keep walking but today I had some time to kill and the summer hasn't left us altogether so it was pleasant enough for a stop and talk.

I first encountered such people as a new missionary in Philadelphia, waiting for my visa to Italy. This would have been about March of 1983. A middle-aged man stopped me on the street and kindly informed me that I was going to hell if I didn't leave the Mormon cult. He told me the unspeakably awful things people do in the temple. When I told him I had been to the temple and that no such things happened, he responded that I just hadn't been to the right place in the temple, where I would have seen such things.

Although I admit I found it mildly entertaining, I have mostly refused to engage such antiMormons since that time. I don't like laughing at or mocking people for their ignorance, and I like even less having to listen to slander about things I consider sacred without responding. And I do not care to respond to open, unrepentant, hateful ignorance. I realize this is a fault in my personality, but there it is. I try hard not to be the kind of prideful jerk who brags about not suffering fools gladly, but some things are frankly more insufferable than others. For me, antiMormonism and antiChristianity is at or at least near the top of the insufferability curve.

[Ironhold]

The simple, if unfortunate, truth of the matter is that many of these individuals are more concerned about being "right" than they are about being correct. 

For one reason or another, they have invested so much of themselves into the belief that they're right & everyone else is wrong that they literally cannot comprehend the prospect of their being incorrect. This leads to a fair bit of cognitive dissonance in which they actively refuse to believe that anything that contradicts how they see the world can actually be true, and more often than not they'll just keep nay-saying rather than step aside of themselves and investigate.

In extreme instances, the strain of maintaining the cognitive dissonance can become so great as to trigger a mental breakdown, especially if they find themselves having come that completely unarmed to a battle of wits. The sad, unfortunate truth is that I've debated more than a few people into full psychotic breaks over the years, as they just couldn't handle it anymore. 

Thus, the best response is to simply keep it cordial. Explain what you personally believe and personally know. Do not escalate. If they seek to escalate, don't be afraid to ask a third party to intervene if you feel that the situation is getting out of hand.

[prisonchaplain]

I'm reacting more to the title than to the episodes of encounters with the spiritually loud. My grandmother (Lutheran) hated the term "born again." She did not appreciate that Billy Graham said one must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God. Now, I would fall under the born again category. However, my understanding of what the term actually means (vs. the stereotypes) leaves me assured that grandma was indeed born again, and entered the Kingdom of God. She might not have liked what she saw in people who claimed to be born again--she might have even rejected the label--but she's with God, and I'm convinced her prayers were/are a big part of me being with God today. Ironically, her spiritual work on my behalf a likely a large contributing factor to me being born again. 🙂  

[Little Nipper]

On 7/9/2023 at 2:16 AM, prisonchaplain said:

I'm reacting more to the title than to the episodes of encounters with the spiritually loud. My grandmother (Lutheran) hated the term "born again." She did not appreciate that Billy Graham said one must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God. Now, I would fall under the born again category. However, my understanding of what the term actually means (vs. the stereotypes) leaves me assured that grandma was indeed born again, and entered the Kingdom of God. She might not have liked what she saw in people who claimed to be born again--she might have even rejected the label--but she's with God, and I'm convinced her prayers were/are a big part of me being with God today. Ironically, her spiritual work on my behalf a likely a large contributing factor to me being born again. 🙂  

Billy Graham is not the one who originally coined the phrase "BORN AGAIN".  It was Jesus Christ and here is the Bible passage: John 3:1-21 English Standard Version

1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. ² This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” ³ Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” ⁴ Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” ⁵ Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. ⁶ That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. ⁷ Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ ⁸ The wind^[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

⁹ Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” ¹⁰ Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? ¹¹ Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. ¹² If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? ¹³ No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. ¹⁴ And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, ¹⁵ that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

¹⁶ “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. ¹⁷ For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. ¹⁸ Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. ¹⁹ And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. ²⁰ For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. ²¹ But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

Edited June 27, 2024 by Little Nipper

[pam]

47 minutes ago, Little Nipper said:

Billy Graham is not the one who originally coined the phrase "BORN AGAIN".  It was Jesus Christ and here is the Bible passage: John 3:1-21 English Standard Version

 

Nor did PrisonChaplain say that Billy Graham coined the phrase.

[zil2]

Welcome to ThirdHour, @Little Nipper!   You might want to take a moment to introduce yourself (there's a subforum for that ).

[Little Nipper]

4 hours ago, pam said:

Nor did PrisonChaplain say that Billy Graham coined the phrase.

He did say that his grandmother didn't like that Billy Graham said one must be born again.  What did she think of JESUS saying it?  

[prisonchaplain]

On 6/27/2024 at 5:10 PM, Little Nipper said:

He did say that his grandmother didn't like that Billy Graham said one must be born again.  What did she think of JESUS saying it?  

To be born again is to have sins forgiven and salvation granted by God. My grandmother did that. She wasn't opposed to sola fide (salvation by faith). Her church taught it. It was more that Evangelicals and Fundamentalists appeared to have monopolized the term. She was neither, nor did she have to be. She was right with God. I suspect that many Christians struggle with the term "born again," not because of what Jesus meant by it, but because of how they've come to misunderstand it. 

[zil2]

1 hour ago, prisonchaplain said:

...

Nice to see you again, PC.

[johnnybelcaro]

On 9/26/2022 at 9:38 AM, NoMiddleName said:

I had a somewhat scattered but entertaining discussion with a born again gentleman. I didn't catch his whole backstory as he was jibbering and jabbering too much. 

After I had gone on to explain that my over all goal was to move to the states and be with my people, possibly starting my life as a saint properly and settling down, he rather condescendingly informed me that I would be '' planting a generation of hellbound seeds ''. 

The discussion ( although random ) was civil enough but I was mildly amused at him thinking he could shake my testimony. He had just been dispensing all manner of flyers and pamphlets about this and that. 

I haven't had a good talk with someone from a random encounter since the Jehovas about  four years ago. 

Anybody else have any tips or stories regarding such people. Normally I'd keep walking but today I had some time to kill and the summer hasn't left us altogether so it was pleasant enough for a stop and talk.  

 

I always find points where I disagree with these people.  But these street missionaries make me feel uncomfortable because I feel I should be doing much more to testify to others of my love for the Savior and my church.  I have to respect them, and wish them well, for doing what's in their hearts. 

[Carborendum]

11 hours ago, johnnybelcaro said:

... because I feel I should be doing much more to testify to others of my love for the Savior and my church...

What shall we do to testify to others? Let it be known that you are a Latter-day Saint.  Then live an example of what a Latter-day Saint should be.

Pres. Hinckley was asked about the lack of the cross in our faith.  And what symbol do we used instead?

Quote

The lives of our people must become the most meaningful expression of our faith and, in fact, therefore, the symbol of our worship.

For most people without a dog in the fight (and even most of our detractors) will admit that "however weird" our faith may be.  We are good examples of citizens, good, smart, honest, hardworking, people who tended to do a good job and didn't have to worry about substance abuse.

STORY: Most places I work require drug screening.  The most allowed was every 6 months.  2 years max between tests.  I was tested every 6 months for two years.  Every 6 months.  That's 5 times in a 2 year period because I had to be screened before I was hired.  I went to the manager and pointed out the 2.5 hrs it took each time.  And it was affecting my work.

My manager went to HR and asked that I would only be tested every 2 years.  He told me that he wasn't worried about me because I was an observant Mormon.

Yes, they may think our religion is weird.  But for the most part, we're respected for being good examples of the way human beings should be.

Be the example.

Edited February 11 by Carborendum