Texas sues Pfizer over Covid vaccine

[Ironhold]

OK. Earlier in the year, a study was published confirming that the Covid vaccines had a risk of cardiovascular side effect, with mRNA vaccines in particular, like Pfizer and Moderna, having the highest risk. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9905103/#:~:text=All reported cardiac events including,myocarditis and TTC were lower.

Now the State of Texas is suing Pfizer, saying that it knew or should have known that its vaccine was less effective than advertised and that they engaged in a conspiracy to suppress information to this effect. 

https://texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/attorney-general-ken-paxton-sues-pfizer-misrepresenting-covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-and-conspiring?fbclid=IwAR1IGaLYrs7F6iWJfyIsdlWLyLNBkjz1mEKNMrCSXy2Hwdf9T__jlAHirXE#:~:text=Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton,public discussion of the product

I do believe a Pandora's Box has just been opened in regards to legal action now, especially if the federal government tries to quash this. 

[Carborendum]

5 hours ago, Ironhold said:

I do believe a Pandora's Box has just been opened in regards to legal action now, especially if the federal government tries to quash this. 

Doesn't really matter if the box is opened inside a cave 500ft below ground.

[NeuroTypical]

18 hours ago, Ironhold said:

I do believe a Pandora's Box has just been opened in regards to legal action now, especially if the federal government tries to quash this. 

The pharm companies having legal troubles over Covid?   About the same chances as Fauci and the CDC and the Wuhan Institute of Virology having legal troubles over Covid.  

Edited December 1, 2023 by NeuroTypical

[Traveler]

I will make a few predictions.  No one (person) will be convicted of any wrongdoing.  No one (person) that is employed at any pharmacy will lose their position, pension or anything at all.  No one (person) that is in any government position (like Fauci) will ever suffer any legal consequences for their actions.  Finely, sometime in the future; this era and time of COVID will be called one of the greatest hoaxes and scams of history.

 

The Traveler

[NeuroTypical]

I'm mostly in agreement with @Traveler's post.  I'd rewrite the last sentence to say: "sometime in the future; this era and time of COVID will be understood as a time when

1- Nations used a deadly pandemic as an excuse to engage in excessive overreach, and
2- Various cultural forces took advantage of the situation to push for radical and usually harmful change.

I don't know what the picture will look like for #1, but for #2, it'll be something like this:

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

I will make a few predictions.  No one (person) will be convicted of any wrongdoing.  No one (person) that is employed at any pharmacy will lose their position, pension or anything at all.  No one (person) that is in any government position (like Fauci) will ever suffer any legal consequences for their actions.  Finely, sometime in the future; this era and time of COVID will be called one of the greatest hoaxes and scams of history.

 

The Traveler

I am reminded of a quote from the end of the movie The Razor's Edge, which at one point in my life I found very insightful and even profound: "There is no payoff. Not now." We need not worry that the wicked will somehow dodge retribution or avoid "getting what's coming to them". They will not. Similarly, we need not worry that those who, like ourselves, are duped by ignorance and foolishness will be forever condemned for that; they will not.

[Traveler]

8 minutes ago, Vort said:

I am reminded of a quote from the end of the movie The Razor's Edge, which at one point in my life I found very insightful and even profound: "There is no payoff. Not now." We need not worry that the wicked will somehow dodge retribution or avoid "getting what's coming to them". They will not. Similarly, we need not worry that those who, like ourselves, are duped by ignorance and foolishness will be forever condemned for that; they will not.

It is impossible to achieve much in the resemblance of justice in this life – but I do agree most heartly that such is not any reason not to attempt to bring about what bits and pieces of justice that we can.  With all that said – I have lost confidence in our current justice system concerning the matters being talked about.  I think we should call our system the legal system instead of our justice system.

PS thanks for your imput and enjoy this season.

  

The Traveler

Edited December 1, 2023 by Traveler

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

I think we should call our system the legal system instead of our justice system.

Humans calling things stuff often makes me chuckle.  I started chuckling around the time we renamed the Department of War.  

[Traveler]

8 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Humans calling things stuff often makes me chuckle.  I started chuckling around the time we renamed the Department of War.  

Just a little note - it is my understanding that after WWII the Department of War became known as the Department of Defense.

 

The Traveler

[Carborendum]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

I think we should call our system the legal system instead of our justice system.

What is the law (legal system) other than man's feeble attempt at justice?

[Traveler]

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

What is the law (legal system) other than man's feeble attempt at justice?

I can go with that - lets call it our feeble attempt at justice.  😁

 

The Traveler

[NeuroTypical]

The more I learn from following individual stories through our justice system, the more I agree that "Feeble attempt" is absolutely a good way to characterize it.  On the grand scale of righteous things, there's God's perfect blend of justice and mercy, then the animal kingdom, then waaaay far down the scale, the various nations of planet Earth fight amongst themselves for a very distant third place.  

This story comes to mind. 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by NeuroTypical

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

Just a little note - it is my understanding that after WWII the Department of War became known as the Department of Defense.

Exactly what I was thinking of.  I suppose I was born after it happened, but when I learned this tidbit, that's when I began chuckling about such things.

[JohnsonJones]

On 12/1/2023 at 9:48 AM, NeuroTypical said:

I'm mostly in agreement with @Traveler's post.  I'd rewrite the last sentence to say: "sometime in the future; this era and time of COVID will be understood as a time when

1- Nations used a deadly pandemic as an excuse to engage in excessive overreach, and
2- Various cultural forces took advantage of the situation to push for radical and usually harmful change.

I don't know what the picture will look like for #1, but for #2, it'll be something like this:

 

On #1 - I don't think so.

Considering it's mostly Americans (who think America is the ONLY nation in the world) who complained as loudly as they did and fought against masks, vaccines, and quarantines as strongly, I expect it will turn out very differently in history (at least long term).

IF America's reach declines (as most empires do) or the Second Coming happens and people around the world are taken more seriously, those who dislike science and try to spread their own (by claiming that only the US exists and that every other nation and their scientists are wrong, or flat out ignore that the other nations even exist and how they were handlng the pandemic or the suggestions internationally were going as well as the studies internationally) ideologies will probably have their own voice diminished as well...I expect a very different story will emerge.

1.  Vaccines actually work.  That those who were vaccinated or survived the initial Covid hit (and yes, MILLIONS died from Covid, which many Americans still try to ignore...but mostly the far right) did create a mass immunization which helped reduce the effects of later strains of Covid (thus far) showing that yes...science actually is correct.

2.  If America declines and Asia comes to predominence, Showing that the Asian method of wearing masks when sick actually are a better idea than the Far Right's strategy in the US of not wearing masks...AND that those who don't wear masks were irresponsible individuals that (if justice is in heaven) may want to be worried about a final judgement where the deaths of others caused by flagrant disregard may be a considering factor .  (and yes, masks are STILL something used in Asia in many nations, especially when one is sick.  This isn't a matter of whether one wears it when they have Covid, but when one is sick in general.  Some also wear it due to pollution and other effects in the air).

3.  IF the lawsuit is successful, all it will do is probably make it so if something like this ever happens again, Texas gets no vaccines and companies refuse to do business with Texas.  Texas is large, but they aren't so large that they outnumber all the other nations of the world.  Other nations will pursue science, even if Texas does not.  Sort of reminds one of North Africa in the 17th and later centuries.  They had been part of a very advanced civilization and at the forefront of science at one point, but due to political and social ridiculous attitudes they rejected many of these and then got colonized by those who actually had a greater advancement in science then they did. 

4.  As politically, this site normally aligns to the FAR right (and ironically, the LDS church does NOT.  In fact, though there is a greater percentage of Conservative members in Utah, I think a recent study showed that it was nearly 50/50 for Conservative/Liberal outside of Utah/Idaho/Arizona...with women being around a 25/75 Conservative/Liberal when under the age of 25 outside of Utah...meaning politically I don't think this site actually represents what members of the church feel in general) I expect this post to be taken VERY poorly overall.

Edited December 3, 2023 by JohnsonJones

[laronius]

16 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

 

1.  Vaccines actually work.  That those who were vaccinated or survived the initial Covid hit (and yes, MILLIONS died from Covid, which many Americans still try to ignore...but mostly the far right) did create a mass immunization which helped reduce the effects of later strains of Covid (thus far) showing that yes...science actually is correct.

2.  If America declines and Asia comes to predominence, Showing that the Asian method of wearing masks when sick actually are a better idea than the Far Right's strategy in the US of not wearing masks...AND that those who don't wear masks were irresponsible individuals that (if justice is in heaven) may want to be worried about a final judgement where the deaths of others caused by flagrant disregard may be a considering factor .  (and yes, masks are STILL something used in Asia in many nations, especially when one is sick.  This isn't a matter of whether one wears it when they have Covid, but when one is sick in general.  Some also wear it due to pollution and other effects in the air).

3.  IF the lawsuit is successful, all it will do is probably make it so if something like this ever happens again, Texas gets no vaccines and companies refuse to do business with Texas.  Texas is large, but they aren't so large that they outnumber all the other nations of the world.  Other nations will pursue science, even if Texas does not.  Sort of reminds one of North Africa in the 17th and later centuries.  They had been part of a very advanced civilization and at the forefront of science at one point, but due to political and social ridiculous attitudes they rejected many of these and then got colonized by those who actually had a greater advancement in science then they did. 

4.  As politically, this site normally aligns to the FAR right (and ironically, the LDS church does NOT.  In fact, though there is a greater percentage of Conservative members in Utah, I think a recent study showed that it was nearly 50/50 for Conservative/Liberal outside of Utah/Idaho/Arizona...with women being around a 25/75 Conservative/Liberal when under the age of 25 outside of Utah...meaning politically I don't think this site actually represents what members of the church feel in general) I expect this post to be taken VERY poorly overall.

I actually agree with your first point. Though I admit that this is mainly because Pres Nelson said the development of these vaccines was an answer to prayer. So yes, vaccines are good.

I don't agree with all of your second point. I do agree that we as Americans do have a superiority complex. Some of it I think is actually true because of the origins of our nation but we are definitely in decline. But concerning this specific issue I don't think it's fair to blame conservatives. It was liberal politicians that pushed stricter measures. The general public, both liberal and conservative, were glad to move with life. Otherwise half the population would still be wearing masks.

For your third point keeping companies honest is ALWAYS a good thing. We cannot be free if we don't have truth. Many good things, like vaccines, have potential negative side effects. That's just life. But people must be able to make informed decisions.

Concerning your fourth point, the LDS Church does not lean left or right, it is politically neutral. But it's very clear that it's values are far closer to conservative principles and values than liberalism. If it's members feel otherwise that's their problem not the Church's.

[Traveler]

On 12/2/2023 at 7:04 PM, JohnsonJones said:

 

On #1 - I don't think so.

Considering it's mostly Americans (who think America is the ONLY nation in the world) who complained as loudly as they did and fought against masks, vaccines, and quarantines as strongly, I expect it will turn out very differently in history (at least long term).

IF America's reach declines (as most empires do) or the Second Coming happens and people around the world are taken more seriously, those who dislike science and try to spread their own (by claiming that only the US exists and that every other nation and their scientists are wrong, or flat out ignore that the other nations even exist and how they were handlng the pandemic or the suggestions internationally were going as well as the studies internationally) ideologies will probably have their own voice diminished as well...I expect a very different story will emerge.

1.  Vaccines actually work.  That those who were vaccinated or survived the initial Covid hit (and yes, MILLIONS died from Covid, which many Americans still try to ignore...but mostly the far right) did create a mass immunization which helped reduce the effects of later strains of Covid (thus far) showing that yes...science actually is correct.

2.  If America declines and Asia comes to predominence, Showing that the Asian method of wearing masks when sick actually are a better idea than the Far Right's strategy in the US of not wearing masks...AND that those who don't wear masks were irresponsible individuals that (if justice is in heaven) may want to be worried about a final judgement where the deaths of others caused by flagrant disregard may be a considering factor .  (and yes, masks are STILL something used in Asia in many nations, especially when one is sick.  This isn't a matter of whether one wears it when they have Covid, but when one is sick in general.  Some also wear it due to pollution and other effects in the air).

3.  IF the lawsuit is successful, all it will do is probably make it so if something like this ever happens again, Texas gets no vaccines and companies refuse to do business with Texas.  Texas is large, but they aren't so large that they outnumber all the other nations of the world.  Other nations will pursue science, even if Texas does not.  Sort of reminds one of North Africa in the 17th and later centuries.  They had been part of a very advanced civilization and at the forefront of science at one point, but due to political and social ridiculous attitudes they rejected many of these and then got colonized by those who actually had a greater advancement in science then they did. 

4.  As politically, this site normally aligns to the FAR right (and ironically, the LDS church does NOT.  In fact, though there is a greater percentage of Conservative members in Utah, I think a recent study showed that it was nearly 50/50 for Conservative/Liberal outside of Utah/Idaho/Arizona...with women being around a 25/75 Conservative/Liberal when under the age of 25 outside of Utah...meaning politically I don't think this site actually represents what members of the church feel in general) I expect this post to be taken VERY poorly overall.

Season’s Greetings Johnson Jones:

I appreciate your input and I read it with interest.  I wish I knew for sure if I agree or disagree with your post.  I have had long discussions with my doctor – we are on very good terms.  I had COVID during the first year and long before the vaccine.  Though he initially recommended that I get the vaccine, he admits now that it probably did not improve my chances (immune system that produced antibodies so that I never spread the virus or had any symptoms) as originally advertised – just that it was the best information that we had at the time.  I wonder.

The problem I have is that the pharmaceuticals made billions.  This is billions above all their costs.  Many think that the vaccines were free – not true, the pharmaceuticals charged extra for their expedited effort, and it was paid for from taxpayers’ funds.  This was too much incentive, both within the medical community and the government to take advantage of the profits and run (this includes the CDC and anyone else exposed to their lobbyist).  Realize that these are the lobbyists that have convinced the US government to allow the advertising of prescriptions drugs to the general public – why would our government allow this.  With incentives of billions – I do not trust anyone in the medical profession or government that can profit.  I believe that the institutions of the world during the latter-days are not to be trusted.  But I also want to get along with responsible people. 

As a side note I was traveling for work in Asia during SARS and I never got that either, even though I was an American that did not know to wear a mask.

I hope that the lawsuit forces the pharmaceuticals to make public all their development, testing and profits (economics) of their involvement in COVID.  If nothing else it should allow us to know what happened behind the scenes.

 

The Traveler