A momentous decision

[Vort]

I have finally decided (though I retain the right to revist the decision) to follow the Church's practice of capitalizing pronouns that refer to Deity—specifically, to the Father, the Son, and/or the Holy Ghost. I will refer to Them individually as He, and in prayer, I will mentally capitalize Thou and, in the very rare instances that I address more than one at a time, You.

I know. It's hard to take in. Sorry there was no way to ease you into this announcement. I felt I just had to blurt it out and let everyone deal with the consequences.

[zil2]

The Church does this?

[zil2]

After perusing, it appears they do, but also that it's a "new" decision.  Not sure how long they've been doing it, but OK.  I wonder if there's a style guide somewhere...

[NeuroTypical]

Hm.  I've been assuming this was the preferred style for quite a long time.  I remember in the late '90's arguing with trinitarians about our doctrine of exhaltation and inheriting all the Father hath and such topics. I made sure to ensure all speculation about the deification of humans to include the lower-case g (and the lower-case s when looking at D&C 103 9-10).

I haven't gone so far as to hyphenate God as is Jewish custom (and the custom of some non Jewish folks too), but I understand why they do it and I've got no issues.  Always happy to talk about Hashem with folks, and avoid use of the "actual" name out of respect for their desires to keep holy things as holy as possible.

 

[mikbone]

@Travelerwill be tickled pink.

[zil2]

38 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I've been assuming this was the preferred style for quite a long time.

To capitalize Father, Son, and other titles, yes; but not He, Him, His, They, Their, Them, Thou, Thee, Thy, Thine, You, Your, or Yours.  As I said, I'm not sure how long they've been doing it, but if you look, for example, at the "Teachings of the Presidents..." manuals, you'll see direct quotes where these pronouns (when referring to Deity) are not capitalized.  I didn't bother trying to work my way forward to see when it started.

But I did go look at some foreign language versions of a manual where I found capitalization of pronouns, and found that both Spanish and Russian have this style applied, but not German (which isn't surprising - German already has some strict rules for what does / does not get capitalized).  I suppose I should go look at French - they have some strict rules about their language (in general, not sure about capitalization).

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, zil2 said:

After perusing, it appears they do, but also that it's a "new" decision.  Not sure how long they've been doing it, but OK.  I wonder if there's a style guide somewhere...

I remember a BYU class taught by Randy Bott in the late 1990s, where he mentioned that in some of his book manuscripts he had consistently capitalized pronouns for Deity only to have the Deseret Book editors make them all lower case.

[zil2]

9 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I remember a BYU class taught by Randy Bott in the late 1990s, where he mentioned that in some of his book manuscripts he had consistently capitalized pronouns for Deity only to have the Deseret Book editors make them all lower case.

Yeah, it was normal for the pronouns to be lower case for a very long time (like, from Joseph Smith to fairly recently).  I wonder if this is a change President Nelson has made - at least, to do it consistently - I've seen mixtures for a while (some pronouns, like He) capitalized, while others (like His) aren't...

[Vort]

8 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I remember a BYU class taught by Randy Bott in the late 1990s, where he mentioned that in some of his book manuscripts he had consistently capitalized pronouns for Deity only to have the Deseret Book editors make them all lower case.

I have been a capitalization minimalist* since I started writing professionally. Pronouns for Deity were one of the first things I decided could live just fine without being capitalized. So it's actually more than a tiny change for me. But several months ago when I noticed the Church capitalizing divine pronouns, I kind of got conflicted. This battle has been raging inside my mind and spirit for a while now. So while I still have misgivings, I'm relieved of the burden of the emotional and moral struggle.

(I'm obviously speaking tongue-in-cheek, but there is more than just a tiny hint of truth-in-jest in my words.)

*I was going to write "I had been a big capitalization minimalist...", but there seemed to be too many internal conflicts, so I simplified. Very expository/technical writing-ish of me.

By the way, did you know where the term "upper case" comes from, as in upper-case letters? It comes from early typesetting, where type was kept in wooden cases, typically two of them, stacked over the desk where the type was set. The normal miniscule (small) letters were stored in the lower case (and so are sometimes called lowercase letters), and the majuscule (big) letters were stored in—dum, da da DUUUUUUM!—the upper case. So those were the upper-case letters.

In programming, people refer to programming languages and such as being "case sensitive", which just means that a programming language will distinguish between the capital form of a letter and the small (minuscule, or lowercase) form of the same letter, seeing them as two different things. (E.g. a variable named vort will be different from a variable named Vort, or from a variable named VORT, or vOrT, or whatever.) So the idea of "case" has come to mean one of two different ways of writing a given letter, the big way (upper-case) or the small way (lowercase). Strange that a word takes on a meaning radically different from its actual root just because it's used in an expression. Strange, but common.

Also, it sort of bothers me that the non-hyphenated "lowercase" has become de rigeur, but "upper-case" seems to remain hyphenated (or two separate words). I think the problem lies with "lowercase", a portmandeau that serves no obvious purpose but to put a space out of work, but since that's not likely to change, I need to adapt or die. I'll probably do both within a few years or decades. More than doing it like how I would do it, they should just standardize on a way. (The great "they". You know, the people who decide such things.)

Edited February 12 by Vort

[zil2]

11 minutes ago, Vort said:

*I was going to write "I had been a big capitalization minimalist...", but there seemed to be too many internal conflicts, so I simplified. Very expository/technical writing-ish of me.

12 minutes ago, Vort said:

By the way, did you know where the term "upper case" comes from

Yes, yes I do!

14 minutes ago, Vort said:

Also, it sort of bothers me that the non-hyphenated "lowercase" has become de rigeur, but "upper-case" seems to remain hyphenated (or two separate words).

"uppercase" seems to be perfectly acceptable to both google and Merriam-Webster.  The Cambridge Dictionary asserts that "uppercase" is mainly US and "upper case" and "upper-case" are mainly UK.  Since Cambridge had their say, I thought it only fair to give Oxford a chance...  But they wanted me to pay to use their dictionaries, so foo on Oxford.

In short, I think you can give up now and just switch to "uppercase".

[mordorbund]

12 hours ago, zil2 said:

After perusing, it appears they do, but also that it's a "new" decision.  Not sure how long they've been doing it, but OK.  I wonder if there's a style guide somewhere...

I thought there was a standard that said capitalize pronouns for divinity if there's some ambiguity about whether it's a member of the Godhead speaking. "And the disciple whom Jesus loved lean on His [capital, must be Jesus] breast and he [not capital, must be John] said 'Lord, who is it?'" I might have read that for another organization's publications.

Here's something more official:

Quote

8.27 Lowercase references to members of the Godhead if the reference is not used as a divine title but rather as a general role or class:

God is the greatest creator. (but God is the Creator.)
Christ was a healer of the sick. (but The centurion approached the Healer for help.)
The Holy Ghost is a comforter, a revelator, and a teacher. (but The Holy Ghost is the Comforter.)

8.28 Capitalize second- and third-person pronouns referring to Deity, as well as intensive and reflexive pronouns:

Jesus and His disciples When God created the earth, He did not create it out of nothing.
We thank Thee, dear Father, for Thy love.
We can show our love for Heavenly Father and Jesus by speaking Their names with reverence.
The Son of God Himself bore the weight of the sins of all humankind.
The Holy Ghost is known as the Comforter, and He can calm our fears and fill us with hope.

As an exception, lowercase pronouns referring to heavenly parents.

Lowercase the relative pronouns who, whom, and whose in references to Deity:

We trust in a God who never fails to bless His children in the way that is best for them.

Avoid using the second-person pronouns you and your in references to Deity. However, if they are used, capitalize them:

“Heavenly Father, are You there?”

8.29 Do not capitalize most terms, whether adjectives or nouns, derived from the titles of Deity:

(God’s) fatherhood
godlike, godly, godhood
messianic, messiahship
(Jesus’s) sonship

Exceptions:

Christlike, Christian
God-fearing, God-given

8.30 Capitalize the words God and Deity when used as the name or title of members of the Godhead. However, lowercase these words in general references and when they refer to non-Christian deities:

Prophets have taught that mortals are gods in embryo.
The god Zeus was supreme among Greek deities.
Olympian gods; the sun god; the god Baal

General references are frequently accompanied by articles (a, an, the), or they appear as plural forms.

8.31 Capitalize the word Spirit in references to the Holy Ghost and the Light of Christ, but lowercase it in references to the spiritual component of the soul (mortal or immortal) or to a feeling, attitude, or influence:

We must live by the Spirit if we are to know the things of God.
The gifts of the Spirit will help each of us achieve our goal of eternal life.
The Spirit of Christ is given to all persons so they can know good from evil.
While His body was in the tomb, the spirit of Christ visited the spirits in paradise.
“The Spirit of God like a fire is burning!”
The spirit of God is clothed in a physical body.
The Spirit of the Most High moved upon the face of the earth, exhorting people to repent.
We should abide by the spirit of the law as well as the letter.
He exhibited a bitter spirit when confronted with his wrongdoing.
There was a beautiful spirit at the meeting, and all were benefited by attending.
The man attributed his insight to the spirit of revelation.
In response to the spirit of Elijah, the hearts of the children are turning to their ancestors.

Looks like this style has been in use for 50 years.

[zil2]

No wonder I couldn't find it - provident living!?  OK, I get it, employment training, but a search for "style guide" yielded nothing on the first page except the fact that at the bottom of nearly every page on the Church's website is this:

Quote

STYLE GUIDE NOTE:When reporting about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, please use the complete name of the Church in the first reference. For more information on the use of the name of the Church, go to our online Style Guide.

 (and thus, a bunch of utterly useless results)

Edited February 12 by zil2

[Vort]

Thanks, @mordorbund. Very informative. I learned a lot, including that "lowercase" is a verb as well as an adjective.

[NeuroTypical]

Given how big a stink woke progressive millennial antiracists have made over people failing to capitalize the word black, I'm grateful for this thread.

Edited February 12 by NeuroTypical

[Vort]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Given how big a stink woke progressive millennial antiracists have made over people failing to capitalize the word black, I'm grateful for this thread.

Ftfy.

[mordorbund]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Given how big a stink woke progressive millennial antiracists have made over people failing to capitalize the word black, I'm grateful for this thread.

Depends on if you’re referring to Deity. 😆

[Ironhold]

9 hours ago, zil2 said:

No wonder I couldn't find it - provident living!?  OK, I get it, employment training, but a search for "style guide" yielded nothing on the first page except the fact that at the bottom of nearly every page on the Church's website is this:

 (and thus, a bunch of utterly useless results)

The Associated Press officially maintains a similar stipulation in their AP Style Guide, however, I'm constantly seeing AP writers violate this. 

In particular, Brady McCombs was so poor about their handling of matters relating to the church that I basically had to get a red grading pen whenever I saw their name in a byline. 

We're talking "Jarvis In A Mazda" - level nonsense columns here. 

https://apnews.com/jarvis-in-a-mazda-takes-pole-in-star-studded-rolex-24-field-6eca51364f83411faa307688bcdcfd65

^

See that?

Imagine if it was a religion column. 

That was the level of McCombs' output on the church.