No in-betweeners?

[mikbone]

23 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I won't be disappointed in my children who shoot for the moon and hit only an eagle.  But I will be disappointed if they shoot for a tree and hit only a stone.

Im confused here.

Are we talking about the space program, hunting, golf, or axe chunking ?

[Carborendum]

On 3/28/2024 at 11:10 AM, mikbone said:

Im confused here.

Are we talking about the space program, hunting, golf, or axe chunking ?

Why didn't you ask about Pinochle?  I said shoot the moon.

[Maverick]

The comparison of the Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial kingdoms to the sun, the moon, and the stars respectively is obviously figurative. This being the case, I think we need to be careful in trying to make too much of the symbolism.
 

Within the church we focus almost exclusively on the Celestial kingdom and specifically the highest degree of the Celestial kingdom, as this is the ultimate prize. Yet I would be shocked if even 10 percent of the current active membership is keeping the Celestial laws required for this. I would honestly be surprised if even 1 percent is. 

So we really ought to have a better understanding of conditions in the Terrrestrial and Telestial kingdoms, as this is where I believe the vast majority of us are headed in the next life. Additionally we ought to have a better understanding of how inheriting these kingdoms fits into the grand plan of eternal progression and the work and glory of God to “to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.” (Moses 1:39)

I don’t believe that only a tiny fraction of mankind will become as God now is (which requires inheriting the highest degree of the Celestial kingdom). And yet, only a tiny fraction of mankind qualifies for this according to the requirements set forth in scripture. 
 

So what this means is that the lower kingdoms of glory and the various degrees within those kingdoms are not permanent conditions. They are stepping stones towards the prize of eventually inheriting the highest degree of the Celestial kingdom and ultimately becoming as our Heavenly Parents now are in the eons of eternity. 

[zil2]

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems to me, @Maverick, that what you're saying boils down to:

1. You judge the vast majority of the members of the Church unworthy of Celestial glory.

2 hours ago, Maverick said:

I would be shocked if even 10 percent of the current active membership is keeping the Celestial laws required for this. I would honestly be surprised if even 1 percent is.

Elder Oaks on that judgement.

2. In consequence of your unauthorized judgement, you don't believe God will do what scripture teaches (see D&C 76, 131, 132 - and others):

2 hours ago, Maverick said:

I don’t believe that only a tiny fraction of mankind will become as God now is (which requires inheriting the highest degree of the Celestial kingdom). And yet, only a tiny fraction of mankind qualifies for this according to the requirements set forth in scripture.

3. Therefore, to reconcile the conflict between your unauthorized judgement and your disbelief in scripture, you choose to believe in something scripture says isn't possible - progression between kingdoms:

2 hours ago, Maverick said:

So what this means is that the lower kingdoms of glory and the various degrees within those kingdoms are not permanent conditions. They are stepping stones towards the prize of eventually inheriting the highest degree of the Celestial kingdom and ultimately becoming as our Heavenly Parents now are in the eons of eternity. 

See Elder McConkie's "Seven Deadly Heresies", specifically, heresy five (with cited scriptures).

The simple solution is to stop the unauthorized judgement, believe the scriptures, and trust Christ.

Personally, I believe the scriptures, I am incapable of accurately judging another person's spiritual status, and I know that Christ's grace is sufficient for the humble.  I also think telling people not to worry about it because they can always catch up in eternity is a terrible, terrible thing to do - and lies in the same vein as Satan's "all is well in Zion".

2 hours ago, Maverick said:

we really ought to have a better understanding of conditions in the Terrrestrial and Telestial kingdoms

Folks won't have any problem attaining these kingdoms without help from the Lord's restored Church.  They won't need His priesthood, ordinances, or covenants to get there.  They don't need to understand the fullness of his gospel.  The Church has its hands full bringing as many as will come into those covenants so that they can prepare to receive celestial glory by the grace of Christ.  In short, we know enough about both of the lesser kingdoms and must focus our efforts on the celestial.

[Maverick]

50 minutes ago, zil2 said:

You judge the vast majority of the members of the Church unworthy of Celestial glory.

I’m no one’s judge, but when we compare the actual requirements set forth in the scriptures for attaining the Celestial kingdom and becoming just like our Heavenly Father is, it is very apparent that the vast majority of the active church membership is not currently at this level. 

[Maverick]

52 minutes ago, zil2 said:

you don't believe God will do what scripture teaches (see D&C 76, 131, 132 - and others):

I believe that God will do exactly what scripture teaches, which includes not permitting anyone to enter into a kingdom of glory which they do not qualify for. 

[Maverick]

1 hour ago, zil2 said:

you choose to believe in something scripture says isn't possible - progression between kingdoms:

The scriptures do not say that progression between kingdoms is impossible. 
 

Many of the brethren have made statements in support of progression between kingdoms (e.g. from telestial to terrestrial to celestial), not just progression from the lower degree of one kingdom to the higher degree of the same (e.g. the lower terrestrial to the upper terrestrial). Some quotes in favor of progression are below:

Brigham Young

“None would inherit this earth when it became celestial and translated into the presence of God but those who would be crowned as Gods — all others would have to inherit another kingdom — they would eventually have the privilege of proving themselves worthy and advancing to a celestial kingdom but it would be a slow process.” (In the journal of Wilford Woodruff, 5 Aug 1855)

Franklin D. Richards (Quorum of the Twelve)

The Savior tells us that the terrestrial glory, or kingdom, is likened unto the glory of the moon, which is not of the brightness of the sun, neither of the smallness nor dimness of the stars. But those others who have no part in marrying or giving of marriage in the last resurrection, they become as stars, and even differ from each other in glory; but those in the terrestrial kingdom are those who will come forth at the time when Enoch comes back, when the Savior comes again to dwell upon the earth; when Father Abraham will be there with the Urim and Thummim to look after every son and daughter of his race; to make known all things that are needed to be known, and with them enter into their promised inheritance. Thus the people of God will go forward. They will go forward, like unto the new moon, increasing in knowledge and brightness and glory, until they come to a fullness of celestial glory. (Journal of Discourses Vol. 25:236, 17 May 1884)

J. Reuben Clark, Jr. (First Presidency)

I am not a strict constructionalist, believing that we seal our eternal progress by what we do here. It is my belief that God will save all of His children that he can: and while, if we live unrighteously here, we shall not go to the other side in the same status, so to speak, as those who lived righteously; nevertheless, the unrighteous will have their chance, and in the eons of the eternities that are to follow, they, too, may climb to the destinies to which they who are righteous and serve God, have climbed to those eternities that are to come. (Church News, p. 3 , 23 April 1960)

B.H. Roberts (Presidency of the Seventy)

These are the great divisions of glory in the world to come, but there are subdivisions or degrees. Of the telestial glory it is written: “And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one, for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world” [D&C 76:98]. From this it is evident that there are different degrees of glory within the celestial and the telestial glories; and though we have no direct authority for the statement, it seems but reasonable to conclude that there are different degrees of glory in the terrestrial world also. It appears but rational that it should be so, since the degrees of worthiness in men are almost infinite in their variety; and as every man is to be judged according to his works, it will require a corresponding infinity of degrees in glory to mete out to every man that reward of which he is worthy, and that also which his intelligence will enable him to enjoy.

The question of advancement within the great divisions of glory celestial, terrestrial, and telestial; as also the question of advancement from one sphere of glory to another remains to be considered. In the revelation from which we have summarized what has been written here, in respect to the different degrees of glory, it is said that those of the terrestrial glory will be ministered unto by those of the celestial; and those of the telestial will be ministered unto by those of the terrestrial–that is, those of the higher glory minister to those of a lesser glory. I can conceive of no reason for all this administration of the higher to the lower, unless it be for the purpose of advancing our Father’s children along the lines of eternal progression. Whether or not in the great future, full of so many possibilities now hidden from us, they of the lesser glories after education and advancement within those spheres may at last emerge from them and make their way to the higher degrees of glory until at last they attain to the highest, is not revealed in the revelations of God, and any statement made on the subject must partake more or less of the nature of conjecture. But if it be granted that such a thing is possible, they who at the first entered into the celestial glory–having before them the privilege also of eternal progress–have been moving onward, so that the relative distance between them and those who have fought their way up from the lesser glories may be as great when the latter have come into the degrees of celestial glory in which the righteous at first stood, as it was at the commencement. Thus: Those whose faith and works are such only as to enable them to inherit a telestial glory, may arrive at last where those whose works in this life were such as to enable them to entrance into the celestial kingdom–they may arrive where these were, but never where they are. (New Witnesses for God, 1:391-392)

Wilford Woodruff (Member of the Quorum of the Twelve)

If there was a point where man in his progression could not proceed any further, the very idea would throw a gloom over every intelligent creature. God himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion, and will do so, worlds without end. It is just so with us. We are in probation, which is a school of experience. ( Journal of Discourses, Volume 6:120, December 6, 1857)

Hyrum Smith (Assistant President of the Church, Church Patriarch, Member of the Quorum of the Twelve)

Hiram [Smith] said Aug 1st [18]43 Those of the Terrestrial Glory either advance to the Celestial or recede to the Telestial [or] else the moon could not be a type [viz. a symbol of that kingdom]. [for] it [the moon] "waxes & wanes". Also that br George will be quickened by celestial glory having been ministered to by one of that Kingdom. ( August 1, 1843, transcribed by Franklin D. Richards; Words of the Prophet, pg. 24; CHO Ms/d/4409/Misc Minutes Collection)

There are many more similar statements from the brethren out there.

Edited April 6, 2024 by Maverick
Removed duplicate statement

[Still_Small_Voice]

On 3/30/2024 at 4:26 PM, Carborendum said:

Why didn't you ask about Pinochle?  I said shoot the moon.

You can shoot the moon in the card game Hearts too.  You can also shoot the Sun in that game.

[Still_Small_Voice]

There are some General Authorities that taught there is no progression between the kingdoms of glory.  There are others that did teach there was progression between the kingdoms.  There has been nothing revealed on this subject as doctrine.  It is dangerous to teach that something is a truth when we just do not know.  I personally assume there is no progression between the kingdoms of glory because if I am wrong then it does not matter.  But if someone is continuing in sin, believing that they can just fix their salvation in the next life, they may be setting themselves up for eternal damnation.

There are many scriptures warning everyone to not procrastinate the day of their repentance.  Begin today to follow the LORD and do what He would have you do.

[zil2]

43 minutes ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

There are some General Authorities that taught there is no progression between the kingdoms of glory.

There are scriptures to support this view.

43 minutes ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

There are others that did teach there was progression between the kingdoms.

I have yet to see scriptures that support this one.

43 minutes ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

But if someone is continuing in sin, believing that they can just fix their salvation in the next life, they may be setting themselves up for eternal damnation.

There are many scriptures warning everyone to not procrastinate the day of their repentance.  Begin today to follow the LORD and do what He would have you do.

Amen.

[Maverick]

4 hours ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

There are some General Authorities that taught there is no progression between the kingdoms of glory.  There are others that did teach there was progression between the kingdoms.  There has been nothing revealed on this subject as doctrine.  It is dangerous to teach that something is a truth when we just do not know.  I personally assume there is no progression between the kingdoms of glory because if I am wrong then it does not matter.  But if someone is continuing in sin, believing that they can just fix their salvation in the next life, they may be setting themselves up for eternal damnation.

There are many scriptures warning everyone to not procrastinate the day of their repentance.  Begin today to follow the LORD and do what He would have you do.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with echoing the words of the brethren who clearly stated that progression between kingdoms of glory is a reality and that all of God’s children throughout the eternities will continue to have the opportunity to progress and eventually inherit the Celestial kingdom.

I do however see a serious problem with the notion that progression between kingdoms of glory is not possible and that those who do not qualify for the Celestial kingdom following the conclusion of this mortal probation can never progress to that kingdom and must forever remain in the Terrestrial or Telestial kingdoms. 
 

There are two major problems with this notion:

1) This would mean that based on what the scriptures tell us about the three kingdoms of glory and the requirements for inheriting each one, that the vast majority of God’s children will fail miserably in this mortal probation and forever be separated from their Heavenly Parents for all of eternity. The majority would also be forever separated from their Savior Jesus Christ. In my opinion this defeats the entire purpose of the plan of salvation and flies in the face of a loving Heavenly Father who wants all of his children to return to him. Likewise it flies in the face of all of mankind being God’s offspring with the eternal destiny to become like their parent. This is incredibly discouraging. 
 

2) It leads to the belief that God would never allow the vast of majority of his children to remain separated from him forever, so the requirements set forth in the scriptures to inherit the Celestial kingdom must not be true. It must be a lot easier than this. This view leads to complacency and not being truly valiant in the testimony of Jesus, which will ultimately lead to a lot of members of the church, who think they have met the requirements of the Celestial kingdom by checking all the boxes on the covenant path, being very disappointed in the next life.

Edited April 7, 2024 by Maverick

[Maverick]

@zil2 and @Still_Small_Voice I don’t believe that there being progression between kingdoms and the possibility for all of God’s children eventually reach the Celestial kingdom over eons of time would cause anyone to procrastinate their repentance in this life any more than knowing that eternal damnation and the suffering in hell for the wicked will eventually have an end, rather than lasting forever. 

Additionally, the vast majority of those people who will fall short of Celestial glory don’t know about or believe in the kingdoms of glory to begin with. They don’t repent because they don’t believe or refuse to believe. Not because they think they can just work their way out of hell over eons of time in the eternities. 

[Vort]

34 minutes ago, Maverick said:

@zil2 and @Still_Small_Voice I don’t believe that there being progression between kingdoms and the possibility for all of God’s children eventually reach the Celestial kingdom over eons of time would cause anyone to procrastinate their repentance in this life any more than knowing that eternal damnation and the suffering in hell for the wicked will eventually have an end, rather than lasting forever.

Someone has more than a little left to learn about human nature.

[Maverick]

6 minutes ago, Vort said:

Someone has more than a little left to learn about human nature.

I think I understand human nature very well. And I don’t think that an appeal to human nature is a good reason not teach what many of the brethren have taught on eternal progression hereafter. 

Currently most members of the church, who believe in permanent placement in a kingdoms of glory with no chance of progression to a higher kingdom are holding out that somehow all will be made right on the spirit world before judgement day. But this belief is highly problematic.

[Vort]

On 4/6/2024 at 7:37 AM, Maverick said:

So we really ought to have a better understanding of conditions in the Terrrestrial and Telestial kingdoms, as this is where I believe the vast majority of us are headed in the next life.

I very explicitly disbelieve this. We have been told almost nothing about the lower kingdoms or what covenants are required to enter therein. This is because God wants us to be celestial. Our current prophet and senior apostle has clearly stated that we are to "think celestial". We are not to resign ourselves to a lesser kingdom or start planning for our more modest mansion in the terrestrial regions. The Lord Himself, both during mortality and in His eternal nature, has told us that eternal life—which is to say, exaltation—is the greatest of God's gifts, and that He wants to bestow that gift upon each of His children, and will do so to all who will receive that greatest of gifts.

No, we do not need a better understanding of a lesser place. We need a better understanding of the celestial realms and, more importantly, a better understanding of what we must know, do, and be in order to gain that exaltation.

[Vort]

On 4/6/2024 at 11:33 AM, Maverick said:

There are many more similar statements from the brethren out there.

Indeed, including statements from our leaders during the last fifty or so years that unanimously affirm that this life is the time to prepare to meet God, We have been warned against the philosophy of "eat, drink, and be merry...and it shall be well with us; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God." Jacob goes on to call these "false and vain and foolish doctrines".

Do not procrastinate the day of your repentance. Don't say, "Oh, celestial is too hard. I'll just live a telestial/terrestrial life. That's good enough, because eventually I'll get there." The truth of the matter is that celestial living is not merely far more rewarding than terrestrial/telestial living; it is EASIER. Show some faith. Believe the prophets and the scriptures. Think celestial.

[Maverick]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

Indeed, including statements from our leaders during the last fifty or so years that unanimously affirm that this life is the time to prepare to meet God, We have been warned against the philosophy of "eat, drink, and be merry...and it shall be well with us; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God." Jacob goes on to call these "false and vain and foolish doctrines".

Do not procrastinate the day of your repentance. Don't say, "Oh, celestial is too hard. I'll just live a telestial/terrestrial life. That's good enough, because eventually I'll get there." The truth of the matter is that celestial living is not merely far more rewarding than terrestrial/telestial living; it is EASIER. Show some faith. Believe the prophets and the scriptures. Think celestial.

I don’t believe that the brethren who plainly taught that there will be progression between kingdoms in the eternities and that people will have a chance later to progress to the Celestial kingdom were preaching “vain and foolish doctrines” and telling us to “eat, drink, and be merry...and it shall be well with us; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God." 

Is this what you believe these brethren were doing?

And living Celestial law is very difficult. It’s not easier than Terrestrial and Telestial law. This is clear from the scriptures and the teachings of the brethren. But just because it’s difficult, that doesn’t mean that’s not what we strive for everyday and what we hope to eventually qualify for. 

Think about what is taught in the endowment. We are currently living in the Telestial kingdom and we need to progress to the Terrestrial kingdom and then later to the Celestial. And there are obviously many levels or degrees in each kingdom. It’s going to be a long process for most. It’s not a check every box in the LDS church and then remain an active card carrying member and you got it made in the shade kind of thing. 

This is what Joseph Smith said:

“You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves; to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done; by going from a small degree to another, from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you are able to sit in glory as doth those who sit enthroned in everlasting power” 

[Maverick]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

I very explicitly disbelieve this. We have been told almost nothing about the lower kingdoms or what covenants are required to enter therein. This is because God wants us to be celestial. Our current prophet and senior apostle has clearly stated that we are to "think celestial". We are not to resign ourselves to a lesser kingdom or start planning for our more modest mansion in the terrestrial regions. The Lord Himself, both during mortality and in His eternal nature, has told us that eternal life—which is to say, exaltation—is the greatest of God's gifts, and that He wants to bestow that gift upon each of His children, and will do so to all who will receive that greatest of gifts.

No, we do not need a better understanding of a lesser place. We need a better understanding of the celestial realms and, more importantly, a better understanding of what we must know, do, and be in order to gain that exaltation.

I think you completely misunderstood what I was saying. I’m not in any way suggesting that we give up and just consign ourselves to a lesser kingdom. But I do believe that we should recognize that we have to pass through the Telestial and Terrestrial kingdoms in order to get to the Celestial. And we shouldn’t lose hope if we’re struggling to live up to what is expected of us to inherit the Celestial kingdom. We need to pick ourselves up and keep fighting the good fight, knowing that God is not going to give up on us, no matter what. He will always give us another chance to repent and will never cut us off forever. But the sooner we learn to obey him and trust in him completely, the better off we will be. 

[ZealoulyStriving]

44 minutes ago, Maverick said:

I think you completely misunderstood what I was saying. I’m not in any way suggesting that we give up and just consign ourselves to a lesser kingdom. But I do believe that we should recognize that we have to pass through the Telestial and Terrestrial kingdoms in order to get to the Celestial. And we shouldn’t lose hope if we’re struggling to live up to what is expected of us to inherit the Celestial kingdom. We need to pick ourselves up and keep fighting the good fight, knowing that God is not going to give up on us, no matter what. He will always give us another chance to repent and will never cut us off forever. But the sooner we learn to obey him and trust in him completely, the better off we will be. 

In the past couple of years I've noticed a lot of "we will eventually progress to be with our Heavenly Father" type language. Like it is a process that will take quite a bit of time, even for those who inherit eternal life 

[Maverick]

13 minutes ago, ZealoulyStriving said:

In the past couple of years I've noticed a lot of "we will eventually progress to be with our Heavenly Father" type language. Like it is a process that will take quite a bit of time, even for those who inherit eternal life 

I’ve noticed this as well. 

In regards to those who inherit eternal life, I came across a very interesting statement by John Taylor as I was studying this topic of eternal progression:

”Under these circumstances, from time to time, he has made known his will to men. He has in different ages raised up men with whom he communicated, and to whom he revealed his will, and under certain circumstances to whom he committed his law, and he has made them his mouthpiece to the human family, and through them has revealed life and its principles, and has unveiled the heavens and given man a knowledge of the future, and has shown his condemnation, or evinced his hatred to evil and iniquity of every kind, and has shown through them the evil effects of pursuing this course. These men, in the different ages in which they lived, warned the people and the nations in regard to evil, and have tried to incite them to good, and held out to them the principle of lives, eternal lives hereafter to be obtained in the celestial, terrestrial or telestial kingdoms. (JD 21:15, John Taylor, February 8, 1880)

This would suggest that inheriting the Terrestrial or Telestial kingdoms of heaven is also considered inheriting eternal life. And in my opinion this only makes sense if the people in these kingdoms are able to keep progressing to eventually inherit the Celestial kingdom. 

[ZealoulyStriving]

1 minute ago, Maverick said:

I’ve noticed this as well. 

In regards to those who inherit eternal life, I came across a very interesting statement by John Taylor as I was studying this topic of eternal progression:

”Under these circumstances, from time to time, he has made known his will to men. He has in different ages raised up men with whom he communicated, and to whom he revealed his will, and under certain circumstances to whom he committed his law, and he has made them his mouthpiece to the human family, and through them has revealed life and its principles, and has unveiled the heavens and given man a knowledge of the future, and has shown his condemnation, or evinced his hatred to evil and iniquity of every kind, and has shown through them the evil effects of pursuing this course. These men, in the different ages in which they lived, warned the people and the nations in regard to evil, and have tried to incite them to good, and held out to them the principle of lives, eternal lives hereafter to be obtained in the celestial, terrestrial or telestial kingdoms. (JD 21:15, John Taylor, February 8, 1880)

This would suggest that inheriting the Terrestrial or Telestial kingdoms of heaven is also considered inheriting eternal life. And in my opinion this only makes sense if the people in these kingdoms are able to keep progressing to eventually inherit the Celestial kingdom. 

There seems to be a an idea in the scriptures that things will atrophy if not progressing. So there must be some kind of progression happening in all glories. What exactly that entails....

[Maverick]

9 minutes ago, ZealoulyStriving said:

There seems to be a an idea in the scriptures that things will atrophy if not progressing. So there must be some kind of progression happening in all glories. What exactly that entails....

Obviously we don’t know all the specifics of how eternal progression works in the hereafter. But I don’t see any purpose in God not allowing someone to progress from one kingdom to the next. What would be the purpose in allowing someone to only make it to the highest degree of the Telestial kingdom and then cut off their progression? 

I agree with Wilford Woodruff, who said:

“If there was a point where man in his progression could not proceed any further, the very idea would throw a gloom over every intelligent creature. God himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion, and will do so, worlds without end. It is just so with us. We are in probation, which is a school of experience. (Journal of Discourses, Volume 6:120, December 6, 1857)

Edited April 8, 2024 by Maverick

[Still_Small_Voice]

On 3/27/2024 at 10:31 AM, Carborendum said:

Some people wonder why the three degrees were not preached in earlier dispensations.

Perhaps it was taught earlier but the truths were forgotten when an era of apostasy came.  The Apostle Paul knew of the three heavens as he specifically mentioned it in the second epistle to the Corinthians chapter 12.

[Carborendum]

12 hours ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

Perhaps it was taught earlier but the truths were forgotten when an era of apostasy came.  The Apostle Paul knew of the three heavens as he specifically mentioned it in the second epistle to the Corinthians chapter 12.

No, there is some evidence in the BoM that they didn't even teach the doctrine of the Spirit World (a time after death but prior to judgment).  Alma theorized of such a place/state.  But he taught it as his opinion, not doctrine.

It may be that it was taught before Noah.  But after Noah, the people were no longer allowed to have that much light.

Consider how many people in the Church today believe they will be perfectly happy in the Telestial or Terrestrial.  They simply don't want any more than that.

[ZealoulyStriving]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

No, there is some evidence in the BoM that they didn't even teach the doctrine of the Spirit World (a time after death but prior to judgment).  Alma theorized of such a place/state.  But he taught it as his opinion, not doctrine.

Read the verses more closely:

"Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection—Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life. 12 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow. 13 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house..." (Alma 40)

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

It may be that it was taught before Noah.  But after Noah, the people were no longer allowed to have that much light.

Consider how many people in the Church today believe they will be perfectly happy in the Telestial or Terrestrial.  They simply don't want any more than that.