Why is this not in the Inspired Version of the Bible?

[Still_Small_Voice]

This is regarding a correction of translation in the Bible concerning Luke chapter 23 verses 42-43. A thief hanging on the cross conversed with Jesus as He was also crucified next to him:

42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

The Prophet Joseph Smith explained that this is a mistranslation; the Lord actually said that the thief would be with Him in the world of spirits. A correct translation of Luke chapter 23 verse 43 should read as follows according to Joseph Smith:

"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in a world of spirits."

In the spirit world the thief would hear the gospel of Jesus Christ preached to him. (See page 96 of the New Testament 2019 Come Follow Me – For Individuals and Families.)

The Prophet Joseph Smith clearly taught this.  Why is this not in the Inspired Version of the Bible or at least in our footnotes of the Latter-Day Saint edition of the King James Version? 

[Jersey Boy]

18 hours ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

This is regarding a correction of translation in the Bible concerning Luke chapter 23 verses 42-43. A thief hanging on the cross conversed with Jesus as He was also crucified next to him:

42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

The Prophet Joseph Smith explained that this is a mistranslation; the Lord actually said that the thief would be with Him in the world of spirits. A correct translation of Luke chapter 23 verse 43 should read as follows according to Joseph Smith:

"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in a world of spirits."

In the spirit world the thief would hear the gospel of Jesus Christ preached to him. (See page 96 of the New Testament 2019 Come Follow Me – For Individuals and Families.)

The Prophet Joseph Smith clearly taught this.  Why is this not in the Inspired Version of the Bible or at least in our footnotes of the Latter-Day Saint edition of the King James Version? 

I believe it’s very likely that, much like Alma the Younger, the penitent thief’s sinful journey through life had finally brought him to the point where he was genuinely sorry for all the wrongs he had done, and that when he cried out to the Lord in faith he was deeply sincere and in a state of authentic contrition. No doubt the Savior keenly perceived the thief’s profound remorse of conscience and passionate profession of faith in him, and for these reasons it could very well be that the man’s change of heart was felt deeply enough to spare him the fate of being cast into the spirit prison with the unrepentant thief.

As a consequence, it’s possible that immediately after he died the repentant thief was brought to a place in the spirt world where he was far better off spiritually than the unrepentant thief who was cast into the spirit prison. So at least when compared to where the unrepentant thief ended up after his death (hell), the repentant thief was, spiritually speaking, very likely in a far better place than hell, a place and condition where his opportunities to fully embrace the gospel would be greatly facilitated. In a manner of speaking, it might very well be that the penitent thief was in a place in the spirit world that’s much closer to the paradisiacal state than to the spirit prison.

It’s also possible that the Lord granted the thief the special privilege of actually being able to enter paradise itself, where the Savior was about to preach the gospel to the spirits of the righteous dead who were gathered there in the joyous anticipation of his arrival. What better time, place and condition for the repentant thief to hear the gospel preached than by the Son of God himself immediately death? After all, the Lord promised the man that he would be with him in paradise, not separated from him. It appears that it would be somewhat disingenuous and misleading for the Lord answer the penitent thief’s heartfelt plea to “remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom” with “today shalt thou be with me in paradise,” when what he actually meant was ‘today you and I will be in the spirit world, but I will be in paradise and you will be in hell.’

I believe that in all likelihood the penitent thief was fully sincere in his repentance, and for this reason he escaped the condemnation of hell in the same way that Alma the Younger instantly escaped the condemnation of hell after coming unto Christ with full purpose of heart. It’s often said in the church that there’s no such thing as deathbed repentance, but isn’t that tantamount to what happened to Alma the Younger when he was delivered from the pains of hell instantaneously, immediately after crying unto the Son of God for deliverance? Therefore in answer to your question, the Savior’s heartening promise made to the repentant thief very likely is close enough to the spirit of the actual truth for us to be able to rightly leave the verse just as it is.

Edited April 2 by Jersey Boy

[CV75]

17 hours ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

This is regarding a correction of translation in the Bible concerning Luke chapter 23 verses 42-43. A thief hanging on the cross conversed with Jesus as He was also crucified next to him:

42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

The Prophet Joseph Smith explained that this is a mistranslation; the Lord actually said that the thief would be with Him in the world of spirits. A correct translation of Luke chapter 23 verse 43 should read as follows according to Joseph Smith:

"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in a world of spirits."

In the spirit world the thief would hear the gospel of Jesus Christ preached to him. (See page 96 of the New Testament 2019 Come Follow Me – For Individuals and Families.)

The Prophet Joseph Smith clearly taught this.  Why is this not in the Inspired Version of the Bible or at least in our footnotes of the Latter-Day Saint edition of the King James Version? 

Check out the timing of the inspired translation and when Joseph Smith said the above.

PS as I Googled this, I saw that you posed the exact same question in 2019, but with some more detail: https://thirdhour.org/forums/topic/67864-joseph-smith-translation-of-luke-chapter-23/

Would you provide the exact reference for the Joseph Smith quote (CFR), so we can see when he said it in relation to when he translated Luke?

Thank you.

Edited April 1 by CV75

[Still_Small_Voice]

Thanks CV75 for the information.  It had been about five years ago when I posted that so I forgot.

Reading through the other comments on the previous posts it appears there is no answer for me.  It will be one of those questions I will need to wait to find until later.

Edit:  Pondering over this I believe I found the answer.  In 1979 the Re-Organized Church of Jesus Christ gave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints permission to use the Inspired Version of the Bible.  We put it into our King James Version Latter-Day Saint scriptures in the margins and into other extra study material in our Bibles around this time.  The information I have been discussing probably was omitted by accident and so it is not in our scriptures.

The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible (Inspired Version) was never completed anyway according to Joseph Smith.  Someday, in the future, we will be given the fullness of the scriptures including the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon when the world is ready for it.

"And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are."  -- Ether 4:7

Edited April 2 by Still_Small_Voice

[JohnsonJones]

The change in wording is only a clarification in some ways.

We believe in a Spirit World, but that Spirit World is divided into two parts (at least).  There is Spirit Prison and Spirit Paradise. 

It may be that the interpretation was that they would go to the Spirit World, but be in Spirit Paradise rather than Spirit Prison.

For those who do not believe in a time between life and the resurrection (and where they may believe that what comes after is the end, thus prison is hell and paradise is heaven and that is it), then they could believe that the thief was going to be in heaven that day (or, what we may interpret as the heaven after judgement). 

However, in our understanding, Paradise would still be part of the World of Spirits.  The fact that it is not defined whether it is Paradise or Prison in the translation gives it more of a mystery, but with the thief's statements and how the Lord responded to him a reasonable and logical thought would probably be that the Lord was telling the Thief that they would be able to end up in Paradise (whether sooner or later is a little harder to define probably from that statement) and be with him. 

As it was in the middle of a crucifixion, it would depend on when the Lord said it, as being crucified could take quite a while to actually die.  It was a painful and torturous death, so unless they were already close to death, it may have not been that actual day he ended up there unless something sped it up (or it was as another poster commented, the comma is located at a spot which indicates the Lord saying it that day in reference to the future).  It could also have been referencing more of a time frame or period in the Lord's time rather than that specific day where they were hanging from crosses. 

[Suzie]

On 4/1/2024 at 8:56 PM, Still_Small_Voice said:

The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible (Inspired Version) was never completed anyway according to Joseph Smith.  Someday, in the future, we will be given the fullness of the scriptures including the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon when the world is ready for it.

 

Hi! Do you have a source for this? As far as I know, he finished the translation on July 1833 and was ready to go press a short time after that.

[CV75]

On 4/1/2024 at 8:56 PM, Still_Small_Voice said:

Thanks CV75 for the information.  It had been about five years ago when I posted that so I forgot.

Reading through the other comments on the previous posts it appears there is no answer for me.  It will be one of those questions I will need to wait to find until later.

Edit:  Pondering over this I believe I found the answer.  In 1979 the Re-Organized Church of Jesus Christ gave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints permission to use the Inspired Version of the Bible.  We put it into our King James Version Latter-Day Saint scriptures in the margins and into other extra study material in our Bibles around this time.  The information I have been discussing probably was omitted by accident and so it is not in our scriptures.

The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible (Inspired Version) was never completed anyway according to Joseph Smith.  Someday, in the future, we will be given the fullness of the scriptures including the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon when the world is ready for it.

"And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are."  -- Ether 4:7

My hypothesis, pending the information on the date Joseph Smith said/taught about "a world of spirits", is that he focused on his inspired reading and annotating from June 1830 - July 1833, but the project was an open-ended one. He may have obtained this particular inspiration after 1833, when things had gotten much busier that he lacked the wherewithal document it in his reading notes. So, it would be helpful to know when he said this.

[Just_A_Guy]

I don’t think Joseph Smith ever really saw any of his revelations as being truly “done”; he continued to tinker with their text throughout his life—even the text of revelations that had already been published.

Brigham Young, at a Council of Fifty meeting,

”. . . supposed that there has not yet been a perfect revelation given, because we cannot understand it, yet we receive a little here and a little there.  He should not be stumbled if the prophet should translate the Bible forty thousand times over and yet it should be different in some places every time, because when God [speaks], he always speaks according to the capacity of the people.”

The point of canon is not to encapsulate all truth.  The point of canon is to get us each in harmony with the mind and will of God and bring us to a spiritual state where we can learn all truth directly from the source.  The current canon—while certainly not perfect—at least does accomplish that.  This isn’t to say we should resist additions to the canon that the Lord, through His servants, offers us from time to time.  But not do we need to live in terror that the existing corpus of scripture is somehow insufficient for God’s purposes.

[Vort]

29 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I don’t think Joseph Smith ever really saw any of his revelations as being truly “done”; he continued to tinker with their text throughout his life—even the text of revelations that had already been published.

Funny you should say that. This is my own opinion, also. Joseph didn't tinker with the content of his revelations; those are pretty static (though e.g. his various First Vision recountings do emphasize and bring to the fore different aspects of that encounter). But he seemed to have no problem rewriting parts of his Book of Mormon "translation"* when he thought the original wording didn't quite get the point right. He reworded, and I think it would be fair to say revised, revelations included in the Book of Commandments/Doctrine and Covenants as they came up for republishing. Joseph seemed to approach the role of prophet as a very dynamic one. And while he took his responsibilities very seriously indeed, I get the impression that he did not really take himself too seriously. He certainly had no problem admitting error in his work or revising how or what he said if it didn't feel right to him.

*I put the word "translation" in quotes, not because I don't think it was a translation—it clearly was—but because we have a rather straightforward view of what a translation is and is not. I don't think Joseph's Book of Mormon translation fits the way we use the word today.

[Still_Small_Voice]

On 4/4/2024 at 8:00 PM, Suzie said:

Hi! Do you have a source for this? As far as I know, he finished the translation on July 1833 and was ready to go press a short time after that.

According to a conversation held in the Salt Lake City School of the Prophet’s 1868, “George A, Smith testified that he had hear Joseph Smith say before his death that the new translation [Inspired Version of the Bible] was not complete, that he had not been able to prepare it, and that it was probably providentially so.”

Read more at:  https://rsc.byu.edu/joseph-smith-translation/joseph-smiths-translation-bible

[Suzie]

23 hours ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

According to a conversation held in the Salt Lake City School of the Prophet’s 1868, “George A, Smith testified that he had hear Joseph Smith say before his death that the new translation [Inspired Version of the Bible] was not complete, that he had not been able to prepare it, and that it was probably providentially so.”

Read more at:  https://rsc.byu.edu/joseph-smith-translation/joseph-smiths-translation-bible

Thanks, it seems as though there are divided opinions among scholars about this topic. I appreciate the source.

[Still_Small_Voice]

I have read through the Inspired Version of the Bible.  It is obvious to me Suzie, that the Inspired Version was never completed.  But I rejoice in what the LORD did give us through the Prophet Joseph Smith.

[Still_Small_Voice]

On 4/4/2024 at 8:00 PM, Suzie said:

Hi! Do you have a source for this? As far as I know, he finished the translation on July 1833 and was ready to go press a short time after that.

Hi again Suzie.  I was looking through my spiritual journal recently and also discovered this:

 “The reason why the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has not published the entire [Inspired Version Bible] manuscript is not due to any lack of confidence in the integrity of Joseph Smith, or doubt as to the correctness of the numerous additions and changes which are not in the Authorized Version of the Bible. The members of the Church do accept fully all of these (changes) as having come by divine revelations of the Prophet Joseph Smith.

The reason that is has not been published by the Church is due to the fact that this revision was not completed. It was the intention of Joseph Smith, while at Nauvoo, to take the scriptures up again and complete his labors, making numerous corrections which had not been made by him in the earlier revision. Due to persecution and mobbing this opportunity never came, so that the manuscript was left with only a partial revision” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Selections from Answers to Gospel Questions: A Course of Study for the Melchizedek Priesthood Quorum 1972-73, page 312).

Why doesn’t the current Latter Day Saint leadership, who possess priesthood keys and serve as God’s mouthpiece upon the earth—finish the work themselves? Bruce McConkie wrote that “up to the present time none of his successors have been directed by the Lord to carry the work forth to its final fruition” (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, page 383). However, he promised, “There will be a not too distant day when all necessary changes shall be made in the Bible, and the Inspired Version — as then perfected — shall go forth to the world” (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, page 384).

 

[ZealoulyStriving]

It may have not been completely completed, but it is complete enough to be completely better than the KJV. 😁

[Carborendum]

On 4/1/2024 at 12:27 AM, Still_Small_Voice said:

"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in a world of spirits."

...

The Prophet Joseph Smith clearly taught this.  Why is this not in the Inspired Version of the Bible or at least in our footnotes of the Latter-Day Saint edition of the King James Version? 

I'm not sure why this is important.

The Greek word for paradise, depending on context, can mean any of the following:

• The abode of the dead (the spirit world)
• The place of the pious awaiting resurrection (paradise)
• Heaven (any of the kingdoms of glory)

So, any of these meanings can be accurate no matter what you think is going to happen to this man.

But we have to ask ourselves what was Jesus trying to say?  Why would He have said "verily, verily..."?

It didn't sound like He was trying to condemn him as if it were too late.  It sounded like He was trying to encourage him.  It wouldn't be much of an encouragement if He were referring to spirit prison.

The man certainly seemed repentant.  He was willing to take responsibility for his sins.  He showed remorse.  He spoke to Jesus in humility.  He showed faith in Christ.  If all this is true, wouldn't he be ushered into Paradise?

What is the point of sifting through the definitions?  Are we trying to condemn this man to spirit prison when he showed repentance?  What is it so important?

Edited April 24 by Carborendum