New Candidates?

[NeuroTypical]

I saw an old video where Walz was being interviewed and claimed he carried a gun in a war zone.   I also saw a pretty old video where he apologized and said he should have chosen his words more carefully.

I'm not in the military so I don't care, but I understand some military folks are incredibly touchy about such things.  

Fun thing: My WWII vet father disliked and suspected Henry Kissinger of such things.   An old newspaper clipping about my dad says this:

Quote

[NT's dad] recently learned that he served in the same outfit with none other than the illustrious Henry Kissinger, U. S. Secretary of State. According to The Railsplitter, the bulletin published by veterans of the 84th Division, Kissinger, who came to the United States 35 years ago as a refugee from the Nazis in Germany, rose to the rank of sergeant as a member of an intelligence unit that interrogated captured Germans.

My dad told me when he was discharged after his service, he was given a list of everyone in the 84th infantry division who had been honorably discharged.  And Kissinger's name was not on it.  Meaning, if Kissinger was actually in the 84th, he had been discharged but not honorably.  I grew up hearing my dad claim that the only way that could happen is if you got a dishonorable discharge, or a section 8.  Dishonorable would have been known by everyone, so according to my dad, Kissinger "pretended to be crazy to get his section 8 discharge".  

I have no way of knowing if any of that's true.  I don't think my dad ever verified anything.  He was a very uncomplicated man who liked everyone unless he had reason not to, and then it was for life.  As me what my dad thought about Jane Fonda!  

Edited August 26, 2024 by NeuroTypical

[LDSGator]

13 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm not in the military so I don't care,

I never served either, and I have zero desire to do so. 
 

I don’t care about the guy at the bar who claims he’s a Navy Seal to appear tough, but others might disagree with me. Some veterans take it very seriously. 

[Ironhold]

3 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

I deployed to Iraq three times. My first mobilization orders came a month after my 18th birthday. I volunteered for the second tour because I needed the money. I volunteered for the third tour because we initially thought we were going to Afghanistan and I wanted to see one more country before I got out. I actually could have sat that one out and waited out the remaining months of my contract. Instead, I signed an enlistment extension so I could deploy. 20 years after my first orders came, I have very conflicted feelings about my time in the military. On a personal level, I never supported the Iraq invasion. I even handed out black armbands at my high school to protest the invasion, even as I was in the process of getting cleared to enlist. For better or worse, my time in the military molded me into the person I am today. And based on my personal experiences, I absolutely do not begrudge someone with 24 years in service the decision to sit out the Iraq War.

I wish Walz would be a bit more transparent about his service, but expecting transparency from a politician is as useful as expecting my cat to pick up my guitar and play "Eruption". That's why for me, generally, the fact that someone served at all is usually good enough. Unless there's an egregious inconsistency or falsehood, I don't care much about the details. I don't care that Vance was a journalist in the Marines. During my second tour, a post office worker was killed when a mortar round hit the chow hall at a base we were passing through. There was no truly safe job north of the Kuwaiti border, especially in those first 5 years. I dislike Vance for other reasons, but I have no nagging concerns with his military service, or with Walz's.

The issue with Walz is that *even members of his own unit* are accusing him of falling down on the job and saying that he was all bark & no bite. 

Even the unit chaplain has issued an open statement saying that he failed to adequately perform his duties. 

These statements, combined with his falsely claiming to have had combat experience, are getting a lot of vets riled up. 

[mikbone]

19 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

The issue with Walz is that *even members of his own unit* are accusing him of falling down on the job and saying that he was all bark & no bite. 

Even the unit chaplain has issued an open statement saying that he failed to adequately perform his duties. 

These statements, combined with his falsely claiming to have had combat experience, are getting a lot of vets riled up. 

I’m a bit concerned that we no longer have the capacity, knowledge, or wherewithal to properly vet a candidate.

Both JD Vance and Tim Walz were looser picks IMHO.

someone should have picked up a phone and made some calls.  

Edited August 26, 2024 by mikbone

[LDSGator]

3 minutes ago, mikbone said:

I’m a bit concerned that we no longer have the capacity, knowledge, or wherewithal to properly vet a candidate

I think VP picks go like this:

“Oh boy, this person will really help.”  

“Well, there are worse picks but this person isn’t all bad.”

”We choose the least worst choice who will only lose us a few votes.”

[Ironhold]

37 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

I think VP picks go like this:

“Oh boy, this person will really help.”  

“Well, there are worse picks but this person isn’t all bad.”

”We choose the least worst choice who will only lose us a few votes.”

 

42 minutes ago, mikbone said:

I’m a bit concerned that we no longer have the capacity, knowledge, or wherewithal to properly vet a candidate.

Both JD Vance and Tim Walz were looser picks IMHO.

someone should have picked up a phone and made some calls.  

For the Democrats, the smart money was on Governor Shapiro of Pennsylvania. Not only would that have shored up a purple state, it would have helped smooth over the fact that many prominent Democrats have a history of anti-Semitic rhetoric. 

There was nothing to be gained by picking Walz, and if anything he might hurt her efforts due to the stolen valor and other controversies. 

[LDSGator]

7 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

For the Democrats, the smart money was on Governor Shapiro of Pennsylvania. Not only would that have shored up a purple state, it would have helped smooth over the fact that many prominent Democrats have a history of anti-Semitic rhetoric. 

And it would have alienated the hard left, who hate Israel and would be furious at her for picking a Jewish man. He would have been a worse pick than Walz.
 

No one votes for VP. It can only hurt.   

[Phoenix_person]

42 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

For the Democrats, the smart money was on Governor Shapiro of Pennsylvania. Not only would that have shored up a purple state, it would have helped smooth over the fact that many prominent Democrats have a history of anti-Semitic rhetoric. 

There was nothing to be gained by picking Walz, and if anything he might hurt her efforts due to the stolen valor and other controversies. 

Gator is right, Shapiro would have been viewed as an AIPAC pick, and Kamala instantly would have lost a lot of goodwill on the left. 

My understanding is that Minnesota is being treated as a purple state by the Dems this cycle. We weren't expected to be as close as Wisconsin or PA, but there were concerns. Putting Walz and his political track record in the national spotlight didn't erase those concerns, but it definitely made them smaller. Walz checks off a ton of boxes before you even get to him being a veteran.

-Universal free school lunches

-Was only the second DFLer in history to represent MN-01, generally considered a contested red seat

-Fully legalized cannabis (a lot of folks in our redder neighbor states sure will appreciate that)

-Passed PFML and universal free school lunches

-Lowered insulin costs

-Oversaw one of the strongest economies in the US 

-Generally viewed as being very pro-labor in a state where organized labor makes a lot of noise

And a lot of that happened in his second term as governor, so it's fresh on peoples' minds. I remember Walz being lauded by Obama and other Dem elites after the 2022 session. He was a rising star before this election season started. He has a lot of appeal to Midwest moderates, many of whom probably won't lose sleep over his military record. The theory is that he's locally familiar enough to carry Wisconsin and has the labor chops to help PA and Michigan. 

 

[Phoenix_person]

55 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

No one votes for VP. It can only hurt.   

My ex was strongly considering voting for McCain in 2008, then he picked Palin as his running mate and she instantly switched to Obama. As likeable as McCain was to a lot of Dems, he was also old, so I'd say that VP pick was very consequencial. Trump may run into a similar problem with his age, though obviously he doesn't have the appeal at the center that McCain did. 

[LDSGator]

25 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

old, so I'd say that VP pick was very consequencial

Oh, it was consequential all right, for all the wrong reasons. Palin proves my point that all the VP choice can do is hurt. 

 

29 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

Trump may run into a similar problem with his age

It’s an interesting problem. He bashed Biden for being old. And now Trump is probably 20 years older than Harris. Of course it won’t matter to MAGA-but the rest of us see the irony. 

[NeuroTypical]

16 hours ago, LDSGator said:

17 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

Trump may run into a similar problem with his age

It’s an interesting problem. He bashed Biden for being old. And now Trump is probably 20 years older than Harris. Of course it won’t matter to MAGA-but the rest of us see the irony. 

Anyone worried about Trump being too old only needs to watch the footage of him getting shot and the immediate aftermath.  

I hope to be that strong and present and able to respond to such things when I'm his age.

[LDSGator]

3 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Anyone worried about Trump being too old only needs to watch the footage of him getting shot and the immediate aftermath.  

I hope to be that strong and present and able to respond to such things when I'm his age.

Of course. When Reagan got shot (far worse circumstances, btw) the same thing can be said. He bounced back in a remarkably short time. 
 

But since he opened the age door, he has to tread very carefully on the topic. He’ll be over 80 if he wins, and like Biden has proven, age can slap you in the face very quickly.

[mirkwood]

5 hours ago, LDSGator said:

But since he opened the age door, he has to tread very carefully on the topic. He’ll be over 80 if he wins, and like Biden has proven, age can slap you in the face very quickly.

 

Biden's age was showing the whole time.  It was the media that slapped him in the face very quickly.

[LDSGator]

52 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Biden's age was showing the whole time

Yup

[Carborendum]

I vote for the guys that put together this:

 

[NeuroTypical]

54 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I vote for the guys that put together this:

It's about dang time the right got cool.   We've been behind ever since the 1992 Clinton inauguration: 

[Traveler]

It is my personal view that politics are corrupt here in the Good Old USA.  Initially Trump hit a chord with me that the DC swamp needs to be drained.  I am now more convinced than ever that DC is more corrupt than I thought.  The question that I am grappling with currently is whether or not the corruption of DC has crossed the Rubicon.

I have always believed that both the republican and democratic parties are deeply mired in corruption – with the caveat that the democrats are exponentially the more corrupt.  For a few decades I operated on the theory of voting against incumbents. If all else seems equal that still is my default – but the method is no longer my primary initiative.

Considering records is more difficult than advertised but I believe it to be a critical element of importance.  But there is a caveat for this as well.  I believe that there is a flaw of political records with claims to have voted against failed government initiatives.   It would seem that records are only valid when initiatives are passed, put into place and succeed.

I can only think of two political initiatives in the past two decades or so that I can honestly say that I am in complete support: 

Number 1 is the Abraham Accords – which was 100% a Trump initiative.  This initiative took the world closer to peace in the Middle east than has ever been since the state of Israel was established.  The failure to support the Abraham Accords has brought the world closer to nuclear deployment during war since the end of WWII.  I believe closer than the Cuban crisis and this was under the record of the current opposition candidate to Trump.

Number 2 is an executive order to secure essential and rare earth elements necessary to maintain the needed supply chain elements to maintain the USA economy.  Again, this is a 100% Trump initiative.  Part of this initiative included hydraulically fractured horizonal drilling.  That was shut down by the current opposition candidate to Trump.  Something few understand about fracking is that the equipment is state of the art and the workers exceptionally skilled.  The putting a stop to this technology required that the equipment be mothballed and the exceptionally skilled workers laid off and forced into other employment.  What few seem to understand (including Trump) is that reinstating this industry to previous levels will take at minimum 10 years.

There are a number of other issues, but records seem somewhat murky.   I would like to say that there is a definite candidate (Trump) but his record proves that he underestimates his political opposition and that he is unable to put together a team capable of dealing with the corruption that in my mind has crossed the Rubicon and is clearly in charge of policies rolling out of the now very visible DC bureaucracy, swamp or whatever anyone wants to call it – that is dictating policy in our news and social information institutions, education, sports and the definition of Title IX, economy (banking and financing), military industrial complex, even in how local police departments can enforce law and even if the Supreme Court will remain an independent arm of our government.

I see no way out of this mess anywhere on the horizon.  The Book of Mormon warns about leaders that are so corrupt that they destroy the very societies they govern – by design.  I think I will put all my efforts and trust in the establishment of Zion.

 

The Traveler