April 2025 General Conference Discussion

[Carborendum]

53 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

This included, mind you, the fact that I was supposed to laugh at myself every single time I was the butt of the joke, no matter how cruel or cutting the joke was. I actually got screamed at one night for not laughing and thus ruining everyone else's fun.  

I definitely know where you're coming from. 

If I were to insult someone whom I've never met or never shown any good will to, I can't blame it on him if he takes it poorly.

What most people don't get is that if you're going to make fun of someone in jest they first need to know that you actually love them.  Only when the loving and playful relationship has been established do the playful insults have credibility of actually being "in good fun."

So, the real question is: How do I get people to love me?

Help people fulfil their needs (not their wants).

[Ironhold]

57 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Actually-I’d ask them if they want help, or if they want to be depressed.
 

Btw, I suffer from it too-but instead of whining and embracing it, I fight back and refuse to let it win.  Like the saying goes, “I have depression, depression doesn’t have me”

Coincidentally, I saw this comic strip today - https://www.gocomics.com/wannabe/2025/03/25

For a lot of people, that's what life is like: They try to get up out of their comfort zone, they get punished for it, and they go right back. 

If someone is clinically depressed, neurodivergent, or otherwise having an especially difficult time, after a while it might just make sense to them to stay where they are rather than trying because in their eyes the risks outweigh the rewards. 

[mirkwood]

16 hours ago, LDSGator said:

No one is denying bad things happen. But no, he isn’t right. 
 

I strongly reject that things are getting worse. It shows a jarring ignorance of what is going on in the world.

 

I'll let him speak for himself on what he meant.

 

I think he meant that there are negative things in this world.  I did not see a denial of good things on his part, which you seem to be implying.

 

Go to the third world and you will find plenty of what he was describing, leading me to reject your rejection.

 

[Carborendum]

28 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

For a lot of people, that's what life is like: They try to get up out of their comfort zone, they get punished for it, and they go right back. 

I'll invoke a gradient to this paradigm.

We're familiar with being inside or outside of our comfort zone.  How about three levels:

• Comfort zone
• Challenge zone
• Panic zone

[LDSGator]

41 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

I'll let him speak for himself on what he meant.

 

I think he meant that there are negative things in this world.  I did not see a denial of good things on his part, which you seem to be implying.

 

Go to the third world and you will find plenty of what he was describing, leading me to reject your rejection.

 

And if you go the “third world” you’ll see that things are astronomically better than they were 25 years ago. Which the links I provided clearly state.  Here’s some other good examples. 
 

This isn’t 1985 anymore. You rejecting what I say is fine, but that doesn’t mean that the links I provided are wrong or inaccurate. 

Edited March 25 by LDSGator

[LDSGator]

Back to depression and GC-I gave Elder Hollands “Broken Vessel” GC talk to friends outside the church. They loved it. Anyone struggling with mental illness should memorize that talk.  

[Traveler]

 

On 3/24/2025 at 1:41 PM, zil2 said:

Please watch this talk.  Pay attention to the things he describes Satan saying to people.  If you don't have 13 minutes to spare (watching it at 2x), start at 8 minutes 30 seconds (or if you're really short on time, 11 minutes and 40 seconds) to at least 12m 40seconds:

But if you need something you can measure, look at all the toxic stuff in our environment (food, water, air, medicines, etc.).  Pick whichever videos you like from the Dark Horse Podcast to listen to a pair of biologists talk about these issues.  They'll give you some science - but beware, biology is a much messier and more complicated thing than engineering and the other hard sciences.

Do not make the mistake of thinking that because you know you, you also know everyone else.  Certainly culture has something to do with it.  Go watch Jordan Peterson - he'll tell you that focusing on the negative makes it worse.  This doesn't mean that one doesn't need help figuring out and overcoming problems, part of which is talking, but children are bombarded today with nonsense that they don't need and didn't hear decades ago - essentially being told that a single sad moment means they're suffering from depression.

Anywho, between the biologists and Jordan Peterson, you'll get a lot of understanding about what's wrong both biologically and psychologically / culturally in the world.

But that talk should also give you a good idea of how Satan makes it all worse. If that talk doesn't resonate with you - get on your knees at 12:41 and praise God for His mercy and protection.

 

23 hours ago, Ironhold said:

In many ways, this world has gotten a lot more complicated, a lot colder, and a lot less personal over the past few decades. 

A lot of folks are falling through the ever-increasing number of cracks, and in far too many instances the people who should be trying to pull them back out are instead trying to bury them further. 

It's a lot harder for people to know who they can trust, where they can go for solace, and how to heal the myriad of wounds they're receiving. 

Perhaps my post was misunderstood.  Just as G-d is the means of light, of course Satan is the means of darkness.  There is a third part in all this – it is fallen mankind.  If mankind cannot tell the difference between light and darkness at the level that is being experienced there is no way humanity will succeed – be able to follow the light or even know what the light is.

Let me put this another way with two examples.  One is balancing a check book the other is navigating a cruse missile.   The common thought is that it is okay to be off a little or have little mistakes.  The truth is – if we are off a little with what we are keeping track of – then there is no way to know how far we have wandered off course because of our slight deviation.  The scriptures say it this way – to him that knows to do good and does not do it – to them it is sin.

The reason I say Satan is more of an excuse is because if we cannot identify the exact point where the correct course has been deviated from then our means of navigating light and truth has failed.  The only possible result is to remain lost or at the mercy of our financial ignorance.   The problem is not Satan but rather with us in finding his temptations more exciting than following the light.

All this is like when I was helping my children with learning math.  They would say that math is hard or complicated.  I would say to them that such thinking is wrong.  Math is simple, easy and in no way complicated.  It only becomes complicated and difficult when we apply the principles incorrectly or settle for mistakes that we know and have been taught are wrong.  You can do it your way if you like but if your way is not the math way – you will always be wrong.

It does not matter what is getting better or worse in this world – The question is all about us as individuals.  Are we getting better or worse.  At my age, just about everything is getting worse for me.  I am not as good at anything as I used to be.  Just for fun, I took a jump skiing – I used to do such things a lot.  I will never even try it again.  I figure I have about 10 more years of production and being able to contribute anything of value to this mortal existence.

 

The Traveler

[LDSGator]

36 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Just for fun, I took a jump skiing – I used to do such things a lot.  I will never even try it agai

Have you thought about swimming or taking walks? Usually easier on the body.  

[SilentOne]

I have gotten the impression that as we get further into the last days, both the good and the bad in the world increase.

[LDSGator]

48 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

I have gotten the impression that as we get further into the last days, both the good and the bad in the world increase.

I can easily see that happening. Sorry for distracting the thread. On me 100%.  

[SilentOne]

I predict

- There will be no additions to the canon or changes in meeting schedules at this time

- Somewhere between 10 and 20 new temples will be announced

- Something Easterish and something Restorationish will be sung

- At least one talk focusing on Joseph Smith and his visions/revelations/the coming forth of the Book of Mormon

[SilentOne]

And my temple-location-guessing resources

Temples, Stakes, and Districts Map

Places without temples:

North American States/Provinces/Territories

New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador, Northwest Territories, Nunavut, Prince Edward Island, Yukon

Delaware, Maine, Mississippi, New Hampshire, Northern Mariana Islands, Rhode Island, South Dakota, U.S. Virgin Islands, Vermont, West Virginia

Aguascalientes, Baja California Sur, Campeche, Colima, Durango, Guanajuato, Guerrero, Michoacan, Nayarit, Tlaxcala, Zacatecas

Africa

Algeria, Benin, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Chad, Comoros, Djibouti, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Eswatini, Ethiopia, Gabon, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Lesotho, Libya, Malawi, Mali, Mauritania, Mauritius, Morocco, Namibia, Niger, Rwanda, Sao Tome and Principe, Senegal, Seychelles, Somalia, South Sudan, Sudan, Tanzania, The Gambia, Togo, Tunisia, Zambia

Asia/Middle East

Afghanistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Brunei, Georgia, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Lebanon, Malaysia, Maldives, Myanmar, Nepal, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sri Lanka, Syria, Tajikistan, Timor-Leste, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Vietnam, Yemen

Europe

Albania, Andorra, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czechia, Estonia, Greece, Iceland, Kosovo, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Poland, Romania, San Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Turkey, Vatican City

Also Wales and Northern Ireland

Central America/Caribbean

Antigua and Barbuda, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Cuba, Dominica, Grenada, Jamaica, St. Kitts and Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago

Oceania

Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Solomon Islands, Tuvalu

South America

Guyana, Suriname

Also French Guiana and the Falklands

Utah Counties

Beaver, Carbon, Daggett, Duchesne, Emery, Garfield, Grand, Juab, Kane, Millard, Morgan, Piute, Rich, Sevier, Summit, Wasatch, Wayne

Edited March 27 by SilentOne
removed Iowa from list because of Des Moines temple

[SilentOne]

I've come up with some possibilities for new Utah temple locations. Any thoughts?

• Spanish Fork
• Hurricane
• Herriman
• Richfield
• Tremonton
• Farmington
• Sandy
• Holladay

What do you think the chances are for another conference where none of the new temple announcements are for Utah?

[NeuroTypical]

12 hours ago, SilentOne said:

• Sandy
• Holladay

My old stompin' grounds from 30 years ago.  Feels odd to think about it. 

12 hours ago, SilentOne said:

What do you think the chances are for another conference where none of the new temple announcements are for Utah?

Dunno.  One of the things I do is look up the GDP of each country that gets a temple.  It's so humbling to see how many resources the church pours into destitute poverty stricken nations who wouldn't hope to afford the millions necessary to build and operate a temple.  I also get energized thinking about how since October '21, every time we get new temples announced, there are more announced outside the US than inside.  I note that out of our 367 temples announced/being built/operating, less than half of them are in the US.

An awful lot of Saints have come before us to predict/prophecy about such things.   How many of these people are still alive?

Quote

          In 1906 I heard President Joseph F. Smith make this statement in Rotterdam, Holland:

        "The day will come when temples of the Lord will dot this whole land of Europe," and I have lived long enough to see two of them there, and I tell you it is changing the feeling of our people toward the Church to know that these glorious blessings are coming within their reach.

 LeGrand Richards, Conference Report,
      October 1959, p. 35

---

 

          We expect to see the day when temples will dot the earth, each one a house of the Lord; each one built in the mountains of the lord; each one a sacred sanctuary to which Israel and the Gentiles shall gather to receive the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  Perhaps they will number in the hundreds, or even in the thousands, before the Lord returns.

    Bruce R. McConkie, The Millennial Messiah, p. 277

---

 

          "We don't build temples until the Church is well established in a country.  Our predecessors have prophesied that temples will dot the landscape of North and South America, the isles of the Pacific, Europe, and elsewhere.  If this redemptive work is to be done on the scale it must be, hundreds of temples will be needed."

 Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson,  p. 247

---

 

  ...the day will come when temples will dot the earth...

 Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 781 TEMPLES

---

 

        "We have temples--they now dot the maps of nations--where the worthy can enter, worship, be taught, and make covenants to serve God and abide by His law."

 Elder L. Tom Perry, April 1990 General Conference

---

 

        "Temples dot the maps of nations, making the saving ordinances available to millions more of our Heavenly Father's children."

     Elder L. Tom Perry,  April 1989 General Conference

---

 

        "Today our chapels and congregations dot almost every land in the free world.  Our temples will soon be within easy traveling distance of almost every member."

 Elder Dean L. Larsen, October 1981 General Conference

 

[Ironhold]

Latest update on the pre-Conference drama: I broke a tooth yesterday. I'll be at the dentist in a few hours to have it looked at. 

 

Seriously. Someone got my debit card information, I was woken up by a catastrophic nose bleed one morning, there's been drama at work, my car has had technical issues, and now this. Even for the usual pre-Conference drama this has been rather excessive. I think something big is going to happen at Conference. 

[Ironhold]

2 hours ago, Ironhold said:

Latest update on the pre-Conference drama: I broke a tooth yesterday. I'll be at the dentist in a few hours to have it looked at. 

 

Seriously. Someone got my debit card information, I was woken up by a catastrophic nose bleed one morning, there's been drama at work, my car has had technical issues, and now this. Even for the usual pre-Conference drama this has been rather excessive. I think something big is going to happen at Conference. 

I just got a boilerplate letter in the mail today from a group called Change Healthcare. 

They're where the breach happened that led to whoever it was getting my debit card information: I must have used my debit card to pay a medical provider that works with them, but the letter didn't say who. 

It was this announcement, the usual mea culpa, the usual promises that they were working with law enforcement, and the usual offer to pay for credit protection and identity theft protection services. 

I'll have to look it over once I get done with the dental work. 

[Traveler]

On 3/25/2025 at 4:13 PM, LDSGator said:

Have you thought about swimming or taking walks? Usually easier on the body.  

I am not a total adrenaline junky, but I have always been attracted to things with some element of risk.  And as I have explained to my kids – I would rather die, out somewhere pushing some limit, than slowly rotting away in a care facility bed.

 

The Traveler

[LDSGator]

1 minute ago, Traveler said:

would rather die, out somewhere pushing some limit, than slowly rotting away in a care facility bed.

I totally agree with you. 

[SilentOne]

On 3/31/2025 at 9:02 AM, Ironhold said:

I think something big is going to happen at Conference.

I'm guessing any big thing that happens will be something I would never think of, but I want to try anyway.

1 - Adding Proclamation on the Family, The Living Christ, and/or Restoration Proclamation to the canon, probably as part of the Doctrine and Covenants.

Possible, but there's a part of me that thinks adding to the scriptures should wait until the new hymnbook comes out so they can then switch the people in charge of hymnbook layout over to the new scripture layout. Seems more efficient personnel-wise.

2 - Calling new leadership

Unsure. It's possible that any one of the apostles or presidency members could die this week and have a replacement called quickly. Or an assistant to the twelve could be called. Or maybe it's time for a reorganization of a presidency or the presiding bishopric - I really don't keep up with that. Does anybody know how long those positions usually go between reorganizations?

3 - Change to 1-hour church

Possible. I find it unlikely, though. I guess I see too much good in the classes to think they'll be completely axed and find it even less likely that they'll remove sacrament meeting or change it to every other week. I've seen speculation about sacrament meeting being shortened to just the sacrament and then moving to classes, but that could give drastically different meeting lengths depending on ward size (unsure how big a problem that is) and it could be a struggle to get as much value from a shortened class. Especially in Primary, where classes are already only 20 minutes. Eliminating singing time feels like a bad idea. Doing just singing time - maybe? Or alternating week between class and singing time? Sacrament being administered in the classes so as to remove the need to change rooms is a possibility, but that would require either no primary, young women's, or relief society classes or else the priesthood would spend much of the hour going between the various classes to give everybody the chance to partake. All that to say, 1 hour church seems pretty complicated logistically.

4 - Changes to how/when people are ordained to various priesthood offices

They just did that. Doesn't necessarily mean it won't happen again.

5 - Addition of an adult version of the Children & Youth program

I'd have to think more on this idea.

6 - Use something other than bread and water as default sacrament

But why?

7 - 50 new temples announced

That could be cool.

8 - No more stake conferences

But why?

9 - Quarterly general conference from now on

10 - Announcement of new K-12 (er, primary/secondary) church-sponsored schooling system 

12 - Expansion of FSY program to include YSA summer camps

[NeuroTypical]

2 hours ago, SilentOne said:

50 new temples announced

That could be cool.

There would have to be significant delegating of the planning/groundbreaking/negotiating/dedicating required by building a temple.  Maybe another quorum of seventy peopled by folks with the single duty of handling temple building?  

I mean, logarithmic growth is a wonderful thing: 

But at some point that exponential growth has to level off.   If it didn't we would eventually have a fully staffed and funded operating temple for every single human on earth.

Edited yesterday at 02:12 AM by NeuroTypical

[SilentOne]

Maybe just 30 temples? Still big, but not quite as much of a leap.

13 - Church universities in other countries

14 - Something to increase connections between Young Women and Relief Society programs

Edited yesterday at 02:32 AM by SilentOne

[SilentOne]

15 - There's a sentence in Elder Cook's talk that @Ironhold really needs to hear

[HaggisShuu]

On 3/25/2025 at 12:54 AM, mirkwood said:

Rumor: 1 hour church.  I don't buy it.

 

@Ironhold is right.  There is a lot of ugliness in the world.  Lots of coldness and unhappiness.  That doesn't mean there are not happy warm people, but to deny the reality of the darkness in the world is naive.

I keep hearing about 1 hour church. People keep saying "Seriously, they are already trialing it" the source being "trust me bro" 

I have also heard rumour about female ward clerks, exec secs and Sunday school presidents. Don't see much of an issue with these, as there aren't any priesthood keys involved with each calling as far as I'm aware. Maybe for ward clerk, definitely not for exec sec or Sunday school presidents though. 

[Carborendum]

On 3/24/2025 at 5:13 PM, Ironhold said:

In many ways, this world has gotten a lot more complicated, a lot colder, and a lot less personal over the past few decades. 

A lot of folks are falling through the ever-increasing number of cracks, and in far too many instances the people who should be trying to pull them back out are instead trying to bury them further. 

It's a lot harder for people to know who they can trust, where they can go for solace, and how to heal the myriad of wounds they're receiving. 

Many people left the Savior after He said he was not going to just "poof" bread to ease their lives.  He then asked the apostles if they would also leave.  Peter said.

Quote

To whom shall we go?  Thou hast the words of eternal life.

Yes, many leave for the wrong reasons.  But many stay for the right reasons.

Edited yesterday at 02:25 PM by Carborendum

[HaggisShuu]

On 3/25/2025 at 3:53 PM, Ironhold said:

Would you tell someone who was dealing with clinical depression to "stop being depressed"? 

That's the gist of what my parents did when I was younger. If I was lucky I would be accused of "being an Eeyore" and be told I needed to smile more. More often than not, however, it was turned into my situation somehow being my fault for somehow ostensibly choosing to only see the negative and told that I just needed to get over myself.

This included, mind you, the fact that I was supposed to laugh at myself every single time I was the butt of the joke, no matter how cruel or cutting the joke was. I actually got screamed at one night for not laughing and thus ruining everyone else's fun.  

It's how I know that if a person is dealing with mental health issues, social isolation, or other such problems you don't simply fling them to the wolves or get after them for not being what you think they should be. You need to gently love them and nudge them along while observing & helping to correct any and all structural issues that could be interfering with their healthy existence. 

...A process that can and sometimes must include intervening on their behalf if they're being wronged or mistreated. 

Remember, there are days where I'm not so much offering opinion as it is warning everyone how I wound up the way I am now in the hopes it saves other people from following in my path. 

I think I might be a bit late to this discussion, but I've had involvement with people who have real depression and mental health issues before. I tried to be a good friend, encouraging, as you have said. but the lack of acknowledgement, flexibility, or willingness to challenge themselves was so infuriating I just gave up and let our friendships fall to the wayside. Because they certainly wouldn't have made any effort to keep in contact. Righteous and Christ like of me? No way.

But I've got my own problems in life to deal with and my own family to support. I believe all recovery and healing is like the atonement. Conditional on accepting the saviour, and making the effort to follow basic principles. 
 

This isn't to belittle your experiences, they sound awful, but improvement requires effort which is what I think @LDSGator is trying to communicate.