Tariffs?

[The Folk Prophet]

6 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I disagree.  I didn't mention it because I don't think that tariffs would be an effective means of combating the issue.

And where international intellectual properties are concerned, I don't know if there is a workable solution.

Well...I'm no expert...but.... it seems to me that if tariffs cause the Chinese knockoff to cost as much as the authentic device, that no one's going to buy the Chinese knockoff. To be fair...yeah...doesn't solve the world market, just the US one. Unless the other large states where the Chinese knockoffs sell also tariff China in the same way. But...still. If I had a product that I was trying to sell and everyone was buying a cheap Chinese stolen IP version of it instead of mine, I'd appreciate the tariff on it, even if it only helped American sales.

Edit: moreover, it's one of the reasons stated by the Trump admin, etc. And so it should be included in a basic explanation of what's going on whether you think it'll work or not.

Edited April 8 by The Folk Prophet

[Traveler]

I find it off that those that criticize Trump’s tariffs, especially claiming that Trump’s tariffs are a detriment to both the world and US economy – do not seem to care (or concerned) about the tariffs that are utilized by other countries.  Especially those tariffs on US goods and services. 

I disagree with Trump that in all cases, tariffs should be reciprocal.  I am more of the mind, especially in politics, that as good and fair as anything can be, there will always be some exceptions.

In my youth I read a book titled, “The Ugly American”.  I do not remember all the details, but I recall that it was very critical of Americans thinking that the rest of the world thinks as we do.  In essence that anyone that has a different view of politics, economy and trade from us – does not understand that our thinking is vastly superior.  And that everyone appreciates our gifts, despite our arrogance in our manor of giving.

 

The Traveler

[LDSGator]

12 minutes ago, Traveler said:

but I recall that it was very critical of Americans thinking that the rest of the world thinks as we do

Of course they don’t, that’s what makes America special, and I say that with the greatest love for my country. 

[NeuroTypical]

This TikTok kid with the blue hair is worth his weight in gold in historical analysis.  This is one of the first things that has made sense to me. 

 

 

[mirkwood]

On 4/7/2025 at 4:32 PM, JohnsonJones said:

 

They seem to think approximately 1 million members of gangs exist in the US. 

 

 

 

lol...still not outnumbered.

 

 

[Carborendum]

14 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

This TikTok kid with the blue hair is worth his weight in gold in historical analysis.  This is one of the first things that has made sense to me. 

That is only one part of what I was referring to when I said:

On 4/7/2025 at 10:16 AM, Carborendum said:

It's more than that.  There is a reason Trump is "playing" with tariffs.  And it will cause the entire world economy to go up and down quite a bit throughout this year.

Everything must be perfectly executed for it to work.  Otherwise, Trump is going to destroy the world economy.  And the activist judges are doing everything in their power to make sure things are NOT executed perfectly.

It is a roll of the dice. 

This is a dangerous game that Trump is playing.  I'd say that if anyone can do it, it would be him.  The problem is that he's basically taking on the entire world, including Americans who want to thwart his agenda.  With all that working against him, I don't know if anyone can do it right.

If he misses the mark, then it may or may not be any worse than what would have happened with another four years of Biden.  If he does it right, then he's every bit the political/economic genius he thinks himself to be... and that many MAGA supporters hope him to be.

I hope he does it right.  Otherwise, start praying that the Second Coming happens soon, because it will be one MEGA-MAGA-disaster.

Edited April 9 by Carborendum

[JohnsonJones]

49 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

That is only one part of what I was referring to when I said:

This is a dangerous game that Trump is playing.  I'd say that if anyone can do it, it would be him.  The problem is that he's basically taking on the entire world, including Americans who want to thwart his agenda.  With all that working against him, I don't know if anyone can do it right.

If he misses the mark, then it may or may not be any worse than what would have happened with another four years of Biden.  If he does it right, then he's every bit the political/economic genius he thinks himself to be... and that many MAGA supporters hope him to be.

I hope he does it right.  Otherwise, start praying that the Second Coming happens soon, because it will be one MEGA-MAGA-disaster.

I'm already praying that the Second Coming will happen soon, but I think with my failing health, I probably will not be around to see it.

However, the important thing is that it doesn't matter in that way, when the Second Coming is, the Second Coming for each man is upon his death when he goes to meet his maker.  I only hope he is merciful to me when that time comes. 

[NeuroTypical]

2 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I'm already praying that the Second Coming will happen soon, but I think with my failing health, I probably will not be around to see it.

If you get there before I do, please put in a good word for me.  Plenty of us sticking around could use a bit of help.

[Carborendum]

20 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Well...I'm no expert...but.... it seems to me that if tariffs cause the Chinese knockoff to cost as much as the authentic device, that no one's going to buy the Chinese knockoff. To be fair...yeah...doesn't solve the world market, just the US one. Unless the other large states where the Chinese knockoffs sell also tariff China in the same way. But...still. If I had a product that I was trying to sell and everyone was buying a cheap Chinese stolen IP version of it instead of mine, I'd appreciate the tariff on it, even if it only helped American sales.

Ok. Good point.  When you said "intellectual property" I was thinking of "intangibles" (like software, audio/video, trade secrets, etc.).  I still don't see a way to penalize that without a level of oversight that would be difficult to apply without serious civil rights infringements.

But if they are using the design of a patented physical product and are reproducing them without credit/payment to the original designer, that becomes a tangible object which tariffs can effectively penalize.

Funny Aside: For many years Korean auto manufacturers didn't do much innovation at all.  They took an older model Toyota and/or Honda and cannibalized it for technology and design ideas to produce KIA and Hyundai vehicles.

Over the years, they did figure out some things on their own when some of the secrets were not easily discernible through taking other cars apart.  And they do have some decent engineers.

But for some reason Japan has not charged Korea for patent infringement or any other intellectual property claim (AFAIK).

Edited April 9 by Carborendum

[Phoenix_person]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Funny Aside: For many years Korean auto manufacturers didn't do much innovation at all.  They took an older model Toyota and/or Honda and cannibalized it for technology and design ideas to produce KIA and Hyundai vehicles.

Over the years, they did figure out some things on their own when some of the secrets were not easily discernible through taking other cars apart.  And they do have some decent engineers.

But for some reason Japan has not charged Korea for patent infringement or any other intellectual property claim (AFAIK).

The guitar industry is the same way, but they DO sue. Fender and Gibson have been suing each other for decades, and they'll both sue anyone whose Strat or Les Paul clone gets a little too popular (with mixed results; PRS had to stop making their LP-style single-cut for a year, but then won an appeal). You hear "pre-lawsuit" quite a bit when talking about vintage guitars.

[NeuroTypical]

I work in the high tech industry where I walk past an inspiring wall of patents on my way to my desk.  We design chips, and that means you have to build a special thing for a million bucks that makes the chips, and the first time you try it, it fails, and you toss the million dollar thing in the trash and start again with a new one.   Sometimes 2-3 times.

We have competitors that pretty much all of their R&D spend consists of buying one of our things and trying to reverse-engineer it into something that probably doesn't work as well, but is way cheaper.  Our proprietary stuff is bleeding edge fastest and bestest, but whatever got invented 5 years ago is somewhere between 20-50% as good and you can get them cheaply.   

Someone occasionally comes home from a visit to china with one of our products, except it isn't one of ours.  They tend to look the same on the outside, same name, but the serial number will either be stolen or fake.  On the inside it's like someone took a few boxes out of a Radio Shak dumpster and shook it around in the box until the pieces all fit.  

Anything that makes it harder for countries like China to do stuff like this, will absolutely help us sell more of our things.  Because our customers won't be getting their stuff from wish.com and then getting mad at us when it doesn't work right.

[Carborendum]

I just looked for some details about Hyundai.  Apparently, the accusations of reverse engineering are overblown.  As far as is publicly known, there is no evidence that they reverse engineered Japanese automobiles to the point where it is considered patent infringement.

They are only guilty of the same practices that most other manufacturers do.  They obtain competitors' products to see what properties they want to meet or exceed.  Then they figure out a way to do it in their own way.  Sometimes it is by a different route.  Sometimes a very similar route.  But so far, the industry seems to agree that no patent infringement has happened.

So, sorry to have spread rumors of my ancestral homeland.  

[Carborendum]

The Chinese Yuan has just dropped to a 19 month low.

BTW, we will be noticing a little bit of a bumpy ride for the next few weeks to months.  But it isn't "necessarily" going to mean the end of the world.

Trump is tanking the stock market and foreign trade for a reason.   But he has a plan to get it back up again.

It's basically the biggest version of "chicken" ever played.  Trump has his foot to the floor and he isn't blinking.  What others don't realize is that he has a plan to jump the canyon.

Yes, it's crazy.  Yes, he could be wrong about all of this.  But if he's right...

Nothing we paeans can do but sit back and watch the show.

Edited April 9 by Carborendum

[Carborendum]

To be clear, the Chinese Yuan is in a LOT more trouble than their central bank would lead us to believe.  China pegs their currency to the dollar.  And they had to admit a small decline because of the tariff war.  Hence the 19 month low (which, frankly, isn't so much).

What is worse, however, is that the foreign currency exchange market is showing a MUCH more drastic drop in just the past couple of days.  It may as well have gone to zero.

[NeuroTypical]

That comment is SOOOO 5 hours ago. 

 

5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

But he has a plan to get it back up again.

Yep, you called it.   👍

Edited April 10 by NeuroTypical

[Carborendum]

9 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

That comment is SOOOO 5 hours ago. 

 

Yep, you called it.   👍

LoL.  Not what I was talking about.

It will continue to go down for a few more weeks.  But...