Which religion is right?

[MorningStar]

you all are wrong cheesecake is the shizbit

Chocolate cheesecake, heathen!

And as for the pink, I will allow you to put pink sprinkles on my superior chocolate cake. I love this cake. I know this cake is chocolate.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I don't believe anything blindly. I took a long time before I joined the LDS church. I don't just blindly accept anything and everything which I am told. Actually, in my experience, we are told NOT to do that.

I don't believe that all Mormons are somehow better than anyone else or will be the only ones to be rewarded in Heaven. We are all just people, Mormons and non-Mormons. We're all people. Some of us are better people than others. There are good people in other religions and in other denominations who are better than some not so good people who are LDS. Some of us make mistakes.

What I do believe though is that we are all trying to do our best (apart from the ones who just want ti stir up aggro for the sheer sake of it) and none of us are perfect.

I made the choice when I realised that I believed the LDS church was teaching the truth.

In my view that doesn't even mean that Joseph Smith was any better a person than some guy down the road who was a methodist or a presbyterian. What it does mean is that God said, "Will you serve me?" and he replied "I will". That didn't make him perfect in everything he ever did before or since. It means that he just tried his best to do what God wanted and to let other people know what God wanted.

So when I sit there in the chapel this morning and take sacrament I KNOW I'm not the person I would wish to be. I know I fall far short of it. I know across the road in the mosque there are people the same as me and people better than me. I know that down the road in the cathedral there are people the same as me and people better than me. I choose to be where I am because I believe that this church will teach me all I need to know all what I need to do. The other churches will teach some of it and that is good. I do not call them evil because they do not preach the same things or all of the things which my church does. I believe the members are sincere. I believe the leaders are sincere.

I believe that one day the Saviour will return and if any of us are alive on the earth on that day we will know beyond a shadow of a doubt who he is and what he has to teach us - and there will be those who will then realise that where there were differences between their beliefs and LDS doctrine that the LDS doctrine is actually following the teachings of Christ.

In some ways it's scary being LDS because with the added knowledge comes added responsibility. Those who do not know cannot be held accountable for what they do not know. Those of us who have been shown these things have the choice to accept them or reject them. I accept them as true because I have felt the Holy Ghost testify to me that they are true.

[WANDERER]

Alright...but I don't claim to have all the right answers to these questions, just trying to answer them.

1. Religion is humanity's attempt to find God.

It is humanity's attempt to connect with and relate to God or a belief about deity or not connect to one at all (atheism etc).

a. All religions claim to be right.

I'm not sure...isn't there a Buddhist belief that all religions are taking you in the right direction. This about says it: While we should live wholeheartedly within our own faith, so long as we find it to be sustaining and a sphere of spiritual growth, we should freely recognise the equal validity of the other great world faiths for their adherents, and we can also be enriched by some of their insights and spiritual practices.To support religious absolutism is to be part of the problem which afflicts humanity. I'm sure there where Roman temples out and about in Jesus's day and times.

b. You must decide which one is.

That would mean that all the other ones are wrong. People insist theirs is the only true religion, and everyone else is either wrong or stupid. This is insulting to believers of other religions, who probably feel as much faith as them, but behave with more humility.

It is only possible to make that decision on a personal level and basis if you want the decision to be 'true' and many aren't chosing a religious group to belong to at all or do not commit to one in the form of joining organised religion. I can't make that decision for anyone else, not if it is going to be meaningful to them or a true relationship with God.

2. God's Word says that they are all wrong. Instead, God finds us.

Ummm, atheists probably agree with bits of part a and not part b.

a. According to John 14:6 Jesus says that He is the only way, truth and life, and that the only way to God is through him.

Yes. Through grace. Works are useless without the grace of salvation. But a fruit of salvation nonetheless.

b. Only Christians recognize correctly who Jesus is, and try to follow him.

Things known are in the knower according to the mode of the knower . Someone who has put their faith and trust in Jesus and serve Him and others with love....or try to.

[WANDERER]

Alright...but I don't claim to have all the right answers to these questions, just trying to answer them for myself and no one else, according to where I am at with my walk with God.

1. Religion is humanity's attempt to find God.

It is humanity's attempt to connect with and relate to God or a belief about deity or not connect to one at all (atheism etc).

a. All religions claim to be right.

I'm not sure...isn't there a Buddhist belief that all religions are taking you in the right direction. This about says it: While we should live wholeheartedly within our own faith, so long as we find it to be sustaining and a sphere of spiritual growth, we should freely recognise the equal validity of the other great world faiths for their adherents, and we can also be enriched by some of their insights and spiritual practices.To support religious absolutism is to be part of the problem which afflicts humanity. I'm sure there where Roman temples out and about in Jesus's day and times.

b. You must decide which one is.

That would mean that all the other ones are wrong. People insist theirs is the only true religion, and everyone else is either wrong or stupid. This is insulting to believers of other religions, who probably feel as much faith as them, but behave with more humility.

It is only possible to make that decision on a personal level and basis if you want the decision to be 'true' and many aren't chosing a religious group to belong to at all or do not commit to one in the form of joining organised religion. I can't make that decision for anyone else, not if it is going to be meaningful to them or a true relationship with God.

2. God's Word says that they are all wrong. Instead, God finds us.

Ummm, atheists probably agree with bits of part a and not part b.

a. According to John 14:6 Jesus says that He is the only way, truth and life, and that the only way to God is through him.

Yes. Through grace. Works are useless without the grace of salvation. But a fruit of salvation nonetheless.

b. Only Christians recognize correctly who Jesus is, and try to follow him.

Things known are in the knower according to the mode of the knower . Someone who has put their faith and trust in Jesus and serve Him and others with love....or try to.

[BenRaines]

PC, thank you for this post. It is nice to see something with a little substance here.

Ben Raines

[DigitalShadow]

Interesting post, I will offer my opinions on them. Keep in mind that I am agnostic so you can take it for what it's worth.

1. Religion is humanity's attempt to find God.

In some cases yes, but I think in general it is simply the pursuit of universal truths.

a. All religions claim to be right.

Not all, but indeed most do and to varying degrees even.

b. You must decide which one is.

I disagree here, I believe one can live a full life without religion in it. I know other people disagree but I'm simply stating my own opinion from my own experience.

2. God's Word says that they are all wrong. Instead, God finds us.

God has yet to find me, but I patiently await the day that he does.

a. According to John 14:6 Jesus says that He is the only way, truth and life, and that the only way to God is through him.

Yes, that is indeed what the Bible says.

b. Only Christians recognize correctly who Jesus is, and try to follow him.

More accurately Christians believe they correctly recognize who Jesus is, but it is all a matter of your own personal beliefs.

[Elgama]

2. God's Word says that they are all wrong. Instead, God finds us.

a. According to John 14:6 Jesus says that He is the only way, truth and life, and that the only way to God is through him.

b. Only Christians recognize correctly who Jesus is, and try to follow him.

I am going to dispute b a little I don't believe you have to be Christian to know Christ and follow Him, Christians know what to call Him. I can't help but think of the woman with crumbs from the table she recognised Christ and had faith when she met Him - yet many of those that claimed to have worshiped Him and been taught about Him all their lives didn't

CS Lewis in the Last Battle illustrated this when Tash carried off the 'evil people' but the good guy who had worshiped Tash his life and lived his life to the best of his ability recognised Aslan when he saw him and was granted eternal life. Someone who worships God whatever they call Him, has a relationship with Him and does good or in otherwise has Faith will know Christ at his coming. A Christian who does none of that will not.

-Charley

[Misshalfway]

I can understand why some may think it arrogant to suggest that one church would be "right". Most people like to be right more than wrong and don't like the insinuation that they are wrong. But, I must say that the official position of the church is that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the only true and living church. That is a little different than saying we are the only ones who are "right". There is so much truth through out the earth and with in many religions. Joseph Smith encouraged people to seek truth wherever one can find it.

If God were to start HIS church, wouldn't you expect it to profess it's correctness?? I think the more important question is not over who is right and who is wrong. The question should be "Did God determine a true and living church or did he leave man to find his own way back to Him?" If God did create His church, it is the responsibility for any true disciple to find it. And how are they to find it? Study and prayer. For God is the only one who can settle this argument.

[kona0197]

But, I must say that the official position of the church is that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the only true and living church.

That is still a very arrogant attitude to have. After all the Catholics say the same thing.

[Adeipho]

Ah yes. You have to love that Mormon "We are right, everyone else is wrong" attitude. I find it annoying and wrong.

Which brings us to the age old question, "Why dear sweet and loving Kona0197, are you here? Why do you surround yourself with those who you believe are wrong? I myself have friends who believe in Budda and others who are Baptist; good friends. However, I do not attend their religious functions and they do not attend mine. We dont want to give the other the "wrong impression" after all. But maybe, just maybe way down deep, down past all of your suspiciouns and doubt, you know it as well as I that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the one church upon the earth that is led by the Lord Jesus Christ who is the only begotten Son of the Living God and who is the way the truth and the light. Perhaps. And when you do someday admit that to yourself. No one will be there to say "I told you so", I wont allow it. And they wouldnt do it anyway.

And another thing which I am unable to avoid pointing out is that even Jesus Christ, who is the head of the LDS church taught that he alone was the only way to the Father. Simple resoning applies here. Jesus only way to Father = Only church on earth established by Jesus and led by Jesus is only fully true church. 1+1=2 Easy.

Hope your day is super Kona!!

[kona0197]

I wish people would refrain from asking me why I'm here. I'm here because I choose to be and that's more than a good enough reason. I'm just pointing out how annoying and arrogant the attitude of a Mormon can be. It's a turn off.

[skalenfehl]

kona, I for one am happy that you are here. My reply to your comment further back was sincere and honest. While we believe that our church is the true church, correct in doctrine and perfect in organization, the members for the most part are definitely not. I myself am far from it. I regret that there are members who do carry themselves in a holier than thou attitude and can display a self-righteous demeanor when associating with others. It is wrong and unacceptable, but this sort of attitude can also be found in any religion and regrettably so. I hope that you continue to post here and understand that some of us really do care and enjoy the company of those outside our faith. Best wishes.

[crytsprospect]

I understand what you mean Kona. arrogance in any situation is a turn off. If everyone acted like Pres Hinkley did we would all be better if. He even befriended Dan Rather??? who is not a fan of the church (*teachings) . Some of our members spend so much time proving they are right they end up wrong

[prisonchaplain]

I am going to dispute b a little I don't believe you have to be Christian to know Christ and follow Him, Christians know what to call Him. I can't help but think of the woman with crumbs from the table she recognised Christ and had faith when she met Him - yet many of those that claimed to have worshiped Him and been taught about Him all their lives didn't

CS Lewis in the Last Battle illustrated this when Tash carried off the 'evil people' but the good guy who had worshiped Tash his life and lived his life to the best of his ability recognised Aslan when he saw him and was granted eternal life. Someone who worships God whatever they call Him, has a relationship with Him and does good or in otherwise has Faith will know Christ at his coming. A Christian who does none of that will not.

-Charley

I understand the dilemma you present. Half of it is really easy to solve--painful, but easy. Jesus says that on the day of judgment many will say, "Lord, Lord!" but He will respond, "Depart from me evildoers...I don't know you." So, yes, many self-proclaimed Christians will face judgment, rather than blessing.

What of those who do not know of Christ, etc.? Salvation is through Christ (John 14:6). God is just and good. So, I leave this difficult question in his hands. However, I'm driving with evangelistic or missionary zeal to spread the good news far and wide.

[Elgama]

I understand the dilemma you present. Half of it is really easy to solve--painful, but easy. Jesus says that on the day of judgment many will say, "Lord, Lord!" but He will respond, "Depart from me evildoers...I don't know you." So, yes, many self-proclaimed Christians will face judgment, rather than blessing.

What of those who do not know of Christ, etc.? Salvation is through Christ (John 14:6). God is just and good. So, I leave this difficult question in his hands. However, I'm driving with evangelistic or missionary zeal to spread the good news far and wide.

I think my arguement is you don't need to KNOW OF Christ to KNOW Christ, like the pagan lady might not have known of Christ but she recognised Him when she saw Him

-Charley

[prisonchaplain]

I think my arguement is you don't need to KNOW OF Christ to KNOW Christ, like the pagan lady might not have known of Christ but she recognised Him when she saw Him

-Charley

Many people respond immediately to the gospel and to Christ. I cannot presume to know what that means for those who never heard. On the other hand, many have indeed speculated that God knows the heart, and will indeed judge us based on how we responded to what we know. Perhaps, this includes that God knows how we would have responded, had we known--but that is speculation. I'm aware of the LDS teaching that there will be further opportunity in spirit prison. It's a nice answer--I like it. But, it's not one I know for a certainity.

[Adeipho]

I wish people would refrain from asking me why I'm here. I'm here because I choose to be and that's more than a good enough reason. I'm just pointing out how annoying and arrogant the attitude of a Mormon can be. It's a turn off.

A turn off? And so I should be attempting to turn you on? To quote L Rush-ball, "If you live your life just to make others like you, you're dead!" Perhaps its a "turn off" to me and others that you come to a place established by a wonderful LDS woman where she and other mormons talk about how right they are only to toot your horn about how that turns you off.

Now, why would you be offended at the question of why you are here? And the answer "because I choose to be" is kind of a cop out. You dont have to explain yourself to the likes of me. If you dont want to say why that is just fine, but dont be a lame-o about it.

I myself am here because I enjoy reading other people's opinions and insights into things. I'm glad not everyone here is LDS...yet. But, I find it kinda funny that you come to an LDS site where LDS views are expressed and expected and get bootay sore because of it. Surely you have a real reason for being here? Maybe its simular to mine? And please, dont take my reply as a sign that I do not want you here. I'm super glad to have you around. I REALLY am. And I hope that hostilities can subside and our sword play turns into a frendly game of tag.

[kona0197]

I'm here because I'm here.

[Traveler]

The following is from a section on "soul winning," under the FAQ section. I co-authored this with a Vietnamese pastor about 12 years ago.

1. Religion is humanity's attempt to find God.

a. All religions claim to be right.

b. You must decide which one is.

2. God's Word says that they are all wrong. Instead, God finds us.

a. According to John 14:6 Jesus says that He is the only way, truth and life, and that the only way to God is through him.

b. Only Christians recognize correctly who Jesus is, and try to follow him.

Very interesting point. The scriptures never speak of a religion. This is a notion created by man. The scripture do speak of a “path” or “way”. You and I have discussed this in part before. A path or way is not defined by doctrine. It is this point that I personally have the greatest difficulty with religion and those that want to define the path or way by doctrine so they can create religion.

Doctrine can help a person find the way but it is not the way. The way can only include doctrines that are believed enough for the “traveler” to “keep”. Other important elements in helping a traveler find the way is: ordinances, covenants, priesthood (one that is authorized or given power similar to power of attorney to present themselves as the proxy of G-d) and order (structure or organization).

It is my understanding that the way does not find you but that you must seek, ask and knock in effort to find the way. So desperate must a person be for the way that they must be willing to give and sacrifice all that they have in order to find the way. It is my understanding that “few” will find the way. I am quite certain that those that do not seek the way will find it. It appears to me that many that accepted Jesus and welcomed him into Jerusalem with branches of palms never found the “way”. Likewise – it appears to me that many in our day that say they have accepted Jesus have not found the way.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

I wish people would refrain from asking me why I'm here. I'm here because I choose to be and that's more than a good enough reason. I'm just pointing out how annoying and arrogant the attitude of a Mormon can be. It's a turn off.

The turn off for me is someone that claims to be an example of G-d only in what they say (doctrine) and not in what they do (deeds or works). To claim to have truth from G-d - even in part has more to do with responsibility towards others in love than it is a gift of grace from G-d. Though the gift of G-d is to all mankind not all mankind accepts the responsibility of the gift.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

Very interesting point. The scriptures never speak of a religion. This is a notion created by man. The scripture do speak of a “path” or “way”. You and I have discussed this in part before. A path or way is not defined by doctrine. It is this point that I personally have the greatest difficulty with religion and those that want to define the path or way by doctrine so they can create religion.

Doctrine can help a person find the way but it is not the way. The way can only include doctrines that are believed enough for the “traveler” to “keep”. Other important elements in helping a traveler find the way is: ordinances, covenants, priesthood (one that is authorized or given power similar to power of attorney to present themselves as the proxy of G-d) and order (structure or organization).

Could it be that what you deem "other important elements," others might consider to be doctrines? Jesus said that He is the Way. The way is narrow because it is only one way. Few enter because of the humility it requires. I must except that Jesus bled and died for me, but most would rather gussy themselves up, and have their spiritual leaders declare them worthy.

It is my understanding that the way does not find you but that you must seek, ask and knock in effort to find the way. So desperate must a person be for the way that they must be willing to give and sacrifice all that they have in order to find the way.

The disciples were found. I dare say that most who ultimately embrace the faith were found...usually by other believers. Kudos to those who discern that there must be a God, and who extend great energy to find the truth of him. But whether I am invited, or I have painstakingly sought...God receives me by his grace, not my merit.

It is my understanding that “few” will find the way. I am quite certain that those that do not seek the way will find it. It appears to me that many that accepted Jesus and welcomed him into Jerusalem with branches of palms never found the “way”. Likewise – it appears to me that many in our day that say they have accepted Jesus have not found the way.

There are many people in many churches who will agonize to hear our Master say, "Depart from me you workers of inequity--I never knew you." I'm doubtful it's because they joined the wrong church.

[tiancum]

I'm pretty sure that if you are not a member of the Church you will not go to hell...

I totally agree.

I KNOW that most religions teach many "right" things. To believe otherwise is foolish.

being LDS, it has always bugged me that we think we have cornered the market on "right". Or on truth. The pharisees were the "right" religion...and very self righteous about it. If we cared less about being right, and more about doing God's will, and learning more of what God wants to teach us but can't, because we think we know everything already, then maybe there would be much more growth.

We do not know all the truth. NO ONE. Just go to gospel doctrine, or Elders quorum. WE are so mixed up, confused and petty that it's a miracle the church hasn't fallen. We are given as much truth as we can handle. It beleive it is the same with "good" people in all religions.

That being said. ....I know that Christ did restore the church on the earth, and called his prophets. The first "official prophet in this time was Joseph.

Me knowing that doesn't make me any better, smarter wiser than a non member. All it makes me is accountable for what I know.

PC said it well, we are on the same side. I just see us as in different sections of the front lines. If we are honest of heart, he will put us where he needs us.

[Elgama]

am I right that whilst you have to be LDS (or equivelent BOM/Bible group of people) to go to Celestial Kingdom you also have to be LDS to go to hell/outer darkness?

-Charley

[a-train]

am I right that whilst you have to be LDS (or equivelent BOM/Bible group of people) to go to Celestial Kingdom you also have to be LDS to go to hell/outer darkness?

-Charley

One has to be a lot more than a Mormon to become a son of Perdition.

-a-train

[tiancum]

or daughter...