Forgiveness

[hurting]

can someone help me with this question.

If you are raped are you expected to forgive. my understanding is that you can not be forgiven if you can not restore what you did wrong. how can someone restore one vertue.

I know in the D&C it says we must forgive all. but to me it seems like if you are forgiving someone then you are saying it is ok this is not ok to be raped.

here is a talk I fonud from President Hinckley

Do not feel guilty or worry if you are struggling with forgiveness. It is easy to take

scriptures about forgiveness out of context and assume we must be immediately ready to forgive

even serious harm from others. For example, an often-quoted scripture about forgiveness in

D&C 64:10 reads: “I, the Lord will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to

forgive all men.”

The context of this scripture is Christ commanding members of the Church to forgive each other

their trespasses, and He gave the example of his disciples of old having contention among

themselves and not forgiving each other. Adults insulting and arguing with each other is greatly

different from an older or more powerful person taking sexual advantage of you.

On the other hand, Christ’s teaching about harming children and perhaps other innocent people,

is clear and unambiguous: In Luke 17:1–2 he teaches: “It is impossible but that offences will

come: but woe unto him, through whom they come. It were better for him that a millstone were

hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little

ones.”

[skalenfehl]

This is a very difficult and sensitive topic. The best I can offer is a talk that I listened to last summer given by James E. Faust during General Conference:

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Healing Power of Forgiveness

Best wishes.

[Elgama]

ok speaking from experience if you don't forgive, as much as possible forget and move on, then the rapist will continue to rape your heart, mind and soul, he or she will not care if you hate them, but you can't move on with your life and they achieve their aim to destroy you.

Forgiving someone even someone who has committed an awful sin or crime against you, allows you to move on. That doesn't mean you don't take steps to prevent it happening again but you can say goodbye to the fear. I suffered a nasty sexual assault 3 months before I joined the church the actual rape was prevented by someone coming into the toilets we were in. When I tried to report it to the police I was told my manner of dress (my top was slightly low not hugely and was wearing trousers), the fact I was English (I am in Scotland) and the fact I had been drinking (I was sort of at home it was Mums pub), and he had a black eye, meant I had asked for it and if I had wanted to press charges I should have let him rape me and if I continued I would be charged with assaulting him - the man later went on to rape 3 more women that night and received a 150GBP fine for common assault. There was an awful lot of hurt - then a couple of months after that I had a man stop in the street and assault me again - again I was fortunate really someone else interrupted him. I had a lot of people to forgive - my Mum for not supporting me (she had been assualted by the man and just wanted to go to bed), the men that assaulted me, the police officers that asked me a lot of awful questions then refused to press charges, racism happened, then the courts for doing nothing.

Shortly after joining the church I ran across this story in the Family Home Evening resource book

One day my eleven-year-old son went squirrel hunting with six other Indians. He saw a squirrel run up a tree and climbed up to scare it out on a limb. After he had done this he called to the others to hold their fire until he could get down. One of the Indians in the hunting party had always been jealous of me and my position as chief. He and his son both shot deliberately at my boy. He was filled with buckshot from his knees to his head. The Indians carried my boy towards home and found a spot where they lay him while they ran for the doctor.

A friend came and found me and said, “Sam, run home at once; your boy has been shot.” I ran all the way home and found my boy near death. The doctor was there and said my boy would not live. He was right; the boy died in a few minutes.

The man and son who had done the shooting were in my front yard visiting with members of the crowd that had gathered. They did not appear to be upset at their deed. My heart filled with revenge and hatred. Something seemed to whisper to me, “If you don’t take down your gun and kill that man who murdered your son, Sam Blue, you are a coward.”

Now I have been a Mormon ever since I have been a young lad and I knew it would not be right to take revenge. I decided to pray to the Lord about it. I walked to my secret place out in the timber where I always have gone to pray alone when I have a special problem, and there I prayed to the Lord to take revenge out of my heart. I soon felt better and started back to the house. But again I heard something inside whisper, again I turned back and prayed until I felt better. On my way back to the house I again heard the voice say, “Sam Blue, you are a coward.” I turned again and went back to pray and this time I told the Lord he must help me or I would be a killer. I asked him to take revenge out of my heart and keep it out. I felt good when I got up from praying. I went back to the house a third time and when I reached the house I went out and shook hands with the Indian who had killed my boy. There was no hatred or desire for revenge in my heart. (See Marion G. Romney, The Power of God unto Salvation, Brigham Young University Speeches of the Year [Provo, 3 Feb. 1960], pp. 6–7.)

I did the same as Chief Blue I prayed until I could pass both of these men in the street - I know longer felt fear, I didn't want revenge my desire was to live my life - they have to deal with the wrath of the Lord, if I don't forgive I will too. I can now walk places in the dark and not be scared I took a self defense class although I now know with my first the way he caught me and pinned me I could not have escaped the black eye was a miracle. They could so easily have ruined my life but I have said no its not OK you don't get to keep assaulting me everyday of my life, the best revenge I get is to move on, have a healthy relationship with my husband and not hurt anymore. I hadn't even thought about it in ages until I needed it to this post

-Charley

[MormonMama]

My understanding is that we are required to forgive not just for the benefit of others, but for our own benefit as well (and maybe even primarily for our own benefit). When we hold in that hate and animosity, it only eats away at us and makes it harder for us to feel the spirit, which can lead to further negative spiritual effects. Forgiveness does NOT excuse the guilty party, it just says that we are not going to hold any hatred for them, that we are going to leave them in the Lord's hands and trust that his judgment, both of them and of us, will be just. It frees us to focus on more positive things, without that baggage of ill feelings.

I am so sorry for what you have been through (and you too Elgama). I hope you can find the peace and healing that you need.

[hurting]

Thank You for the remarks on this.

I lost the love of my life for 20 years because of this. She was raped and did not feel worthy of me when I returned home from my mission. We were married feb 16 2008 yea it was the most gloryous day for the two of us. She has truly been the love of my life. although we both put everything into previous marriages that was a disaster from the begining for the both of us. We finally found each other again. we are so happy to have each other again.

This last week end my beautiful wife told me why she felt unworthy of me. Last night my wife told me she has found foregiveness she said if we both dont then this evil man and satan have won. I have much anger for this individual that took my only true love from me. but I feel so blessed that god has brought us back togeather. my wife was the victom and she found forgiveness I know I need to do the same.

[Hemidakota]

can someone help me with this question.

If you are raped are you expected to forgive. my understanding is that you can not be forgiven if you can not restore what you did wrong. how can someone restore one vertue.

I know in the D&C it says we must forgive all. but to me it seems like if you are forgiving someone then you are saying it is ok this is not ok to be raped.

here is a talk I fonud from President Hinckley

Do not feel guilty or worry if you are struggling with forgiveness. It is easy to take

scriptures about forgiveness out of context and assume we must be immediately ready to forgive

even serious harm from others. For example, an often-quoted scripture about forgiveness in

D&C 64:10 reads: “I, the Lord will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to

forgive all men.”

The context of this scripture is Christ commanding members of the Church to forgive each other

their trespasses, and He gave the example of his disciples of old having contention among

themselves and not forgiving each other. Adults insulting and arguing with each other is greatly

different from an older or more powerful person taking sexual advantage of you.

On the other hand, Christ’s teaching about harming children and perhaps other innocent people,

is clear and unambiguous: In Luke 17:1–2 he teaches: “It is impossible but that offences will

come: but woe unto him, through whom they come. It were better for him that a millstone were

hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little

ones.”

If one has made this offense against you, seek help and guidance from your local Bishop.

[ruthiechan]

Thank You for the remarks on this.

I lost the love of my life for 20 years because of this. She was raped and did not feel worthy of me when I returned home from my mission. We were married feb 16 2008 yea it was the most gloryous day for the two of us. She has truly been the love of my life. although we both put everything into previous marriages that was a disaster from the begining for the both of us. We finally found each other again. we are so happy to have each other again.

This last week end my beautiful wife told me why she felt unworthy of me. Last night my wife told me she has found foregiveness she said if we both dont then this evil man and satan have won. I have much anger for this individual that took my only true love from me. but I feel so blessed that god has brought us back togeather. my wife was the victom and she found forgiveness I know I need to do the same.

I am so sorry this has happened.

Have you and your wife considered professional counseling? The Church has professional counseling services that you two may want to take advantage of.

Let her know that she is still worthy, and desireable.

And definitely talk to your Bishop.

[Hemidakota]

Hurting, that stirs my soul.

I have only met such few women in my probation on this earth, having that large of capacity of immenating light of Christ. [Feeling the Spirit here].

[Moksha]

Who wants to carry around the emotional baggage of anger and revenge forever when you can forgive and move on?

[skalenfehl]

Who wants to carry around the emotional baggage of anger and revenge forever when you can forgive and move on?

Probably nobody, but it's a lot easier said than done in many cases.

[hurting]

That is a nice concept and yes that is what we are working on togeather. Sitting on the outside when it does not effect you or you have not had something of this degree done to you I guess it is easy to say forgive and move on. This is exactly what I am doing but it still hurts both of us.

[Hemidakota]

Only those who experience that tradgic lost do understand the true magnitude of grief.

[skalenfehl]

Indeed. Being able to heal from the pain not only from the hurt but also from being able to forgive is very liberating. It can be a battle and I've dealt with that first hand. I wish you all the best.

[Elgama]

That is a nice concept and yes that is what we are working on togeather. Sitting on the outside when it does not effect you or you have not had something of this degree done to you I guess it is easy to say forgive and move on. This is exactly what I am doing but it still hurts both of us.

forgiving is the easier option

[Misshalfway]

That is a nice concept and yes that is what we are working on togeather. Sitting on the outside when it does not effect you or you have not had something of this degree done to you I guess it is easy to say forgive and move on. This is exactly what I am doing but it still hurts both of us.

I just wanted to say how profoundly sorry I am for this burden you are called to carry. I wish I had answers to all the questions. All I know is that moving from pain to healing is a process.... a process that can't be rushed. I know that peace will come to you. The anger is normal and understandable. It is part of what helps us understand injustices. You will eventually be able to let go of your anger as you give the heaviness of it...the unanswered parts of it to God. What you are going thru right now is the essence of the why the Atonement was accomplished. I use that word on purpose -- accomplished. The same applies to your process. God will lead you to healing. Allow his wisdom to teach you whatever lessons he will as you pass thru it all. Forgiveness will come. It is ok that it isn't all here today. Your sweet wife will be whole again. I know it.

I once read about Cory Tenboon from the Hiding Place. After the war, she was speaking to a group about forgiveness. Afterwards, the crowd passed by her shaking her hand. And thru the crowd emerged a Nazi soldier....the soldier that had caused her so much pain. He thanked for the address and explained his own repentance and asked forgiveness. She couldn't raise her hand. She stood their frozen.... unable to forgive. She then described how the Spirit of forgiveness came into her.....a gift from God....and she was able to finally extend her hand.

Forgiveness is a gift. And it will come. My heart is with you and your sweetheart. Don't let that rapist take anymore than he has already. Don't give him your future. Give it to God.

[hurting]

Thanks their are some outstanding comments on this discussion. All of you are saints that care enough to help with this. My wife and I have turned to god in prayer we are having a special fast right now hoping that god can help. just reading some of your comments has provided a sense of goodness May god bless you all.

this talk has also been a encouragement

http://ce.byu.edu/cw/fuf/archives/2002/BarbaraMorrell2002.pdf

[Moksha]

... it's a lot easier said than done in many cases.

Ah, the shadow that falls between the becoming and the being. Letting go via forgiving, therapy, life changes, etc..., takes time and work. But the end point of regaining a measure of serenity in your life is certainly worth it. Not to mention being a more spiritually attuned person for the act of forgiving.

[WANDERER]

Being hurt and angry are normal responses to have: this is a self-protective mechanism, what happened was wrong..it should not happen. To not have these feelings is not a good thing.

To overcome them and move on with life and not let it affect your quality of life and shadow it is a slow healing process.

[Elgama]

I think like Connie Ten Boom and Chief Sam Blue show if we use prayer we can obtain forgiveness very quickly it doesn't need to be a long drawn out process,

-charley

[NeuroTypical]

my understanding is that you can not be forgiven if you can not restore what you did wrong.

There is a little bit of confusion about forgiveness and repentence.

Forgiveness is something a victim does, that blesses their own life. A side-effect of forgiveness is blessings to the person being forgiven. This side effect does not always occur.

Repentence is something an offender does, that blesses their own life. Restitution is a part of repentence, but only to the extent possible. From the Gospel Principles manual:

How Do We Repent?

We Must Recognize Our Sins

We Must Feel Sorrow for Our Sins

We Must Forsake Our Sins

We Must Confess Our Sins

We Must Make Restitution

Part of repentance is to make restitution. This means that as much as possible we must make right any wrong that we have done. For example, a thief should give back what he has stolen. A liar should make the truth known. A gossip who has slandered the character of a person should work to restore the good name of the person he has harmed. As we do these things, God will not mention our sins to us when we are judged (see Ezekiel 33:15–16).

We Must Forgive Others

We Must Keep the Commandments of God

Important thing to consider - when we withhold forgiveness until we feel the offender has repented, we are only damaging ourselves.

LM

[i've forgiven a rapist that as far as I can tell, remains unrepentant. I wholeheartedly recommend forgiveness to everyone.]

[Maya]

My humble opinion.. Forgiving is not pop; all rapists and abusers should be shot on the spot. Would save alot of trouble from everyone.

[ztodd]

Not pop? What does that mean?

[tiancum]

Forgiving and repenting are the hardest struggles I have gone through in my life. I, too, have experienced intimately the struggles you speak of. I have also watched the hurt and scarring that it causes in most of the women I love lives.

The pain has been the most horrific in my life. But if it wasn't for that pain, I would not have been able to learn the value of the Atonement. I would not have the witness I do of the Savior. He carries the burden for me now.

Forgiving is essentially that too. It is releasing the perpetrator from the debt that they TRULY owe you, and giving that debt to the savior. It takes trusting His judgment and sacrificing our own limited judgment. It takes knowing that he is not only a God of Mercy, but a God of justice. It takes knowing that he does indeed get angry at those that hurt his little ones. Seeing him angry is very healing.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Forgiving is not for the good of the person who sinned but for the good of the person who is hurt. It took me a long time to understand that but I do now realise that when I don't forgive then the only person who suffers is me. I think it is harder to forgive when someone has hurt a person we love. I find that very difficult to do and I still struggle with it. I pray you will be able to forgive Hurting and that you can move forward. Eventually it is possible to put it all behind you. God bless you both.

[Maya]

Not pop? What does that mean?

That means that if you forgive YOU will be in the black book. You get to hear what a bad person you are, as you forgive somethign that is not to forgive in the eyes of the world. You may even loose your frends(even church members), your work because of it... more than once.. word goes around... Yet you stand in the middle of it and understand what saivior came here for and know the others do not understand... you think eternity not just here and now....

It is not popular to forgive! But it has got a bit better as some pop-persons have been able to forgive and tell about it....

Life is hard...