Finances

[Aphrodite]

Our finances have taken a battering lately. It's actually started to get me down. We have a fairly reasonable income, even though I am a student as I get paid to study.

The problem is, we seem to lurch from one crisis to the next. For example, our car breaking down or dying altogether is a common thing for us. By the time we have either bought a new one or forked out to have it repaired, and are financially 'straight' another crisis happens. So we are never able to put anything by for emergencies as we lurch from one financial emergency to the next. Wwe throw money at whatever is needed and then fall short elsewhere. We never seem to have any money because of this and are constantly borrowing a few quid here and there from our parents (all of whom earn less than us by the way except my Dad)

We also have a lot of debt. It is not enough for us to have a payment plan (so we're told) but too much to pay off what each creditor wants. I have no idea how to get round that one. Our debt is around 10 k.

Does anyone have any tips on how we can get in control of our finances? I would love to be able to not panic like the wind when something breaks down/goes wrong because we have no savings. It would be so nice to think, Oh we have some money aside, its an inconvenience but its sortable.

Help!!!

[scott1971]

I (like I'm sure many others) know the burden of financial difficulties, check out the church's Provident Living site: Family Finances

[Canuck Mormon]

Pay your tithing? HAHAHAHAHA I'm kidding.

What we do is we have a budget that we strictly follow each month. It's written down on the computer, and when we use a portion of the funds for those items we mark it off. This is what works for us. My wife is very frugal when it comes to shopping for groceries that we hardly use up the money we set aside. I find it amazing that after paying the mortgage, truck, child support, credit cards and of course tithing we are able to put a few hundred into savings each month. I'm not sure how we make it, but we do.

This works for us, but it's best to find a solution that works best for you. I know things are much more expensive there than here (more than 2x) and it may cause giving up some little luxuries that you might have.

I hope this was helpful.

[MorningStar]

We struggle too, mostly because of the cost of gas, food, and healthcare. We were better off with my husband's last company (he had to go somewhere else because they were tanking) and it's been really frustrating. We tried so hard to save for a house - got $10,000 in our savings, then this job happened, our savings is almost gone, and we have over $5,000 in debt. Because we built up the savings before, I know we're good at budgeting and having self-control, but now our expenses are too great. We're hoping that will improve soon.

[Elgama]

Have your local council got a debt advisory service? that might be who told you, you were not eligible for debt repayment plan - we are in a similar boat we still have the wedding and all the finances from immigration plus student loans to repay.

Some of the things we are doing right now are:

*We have got rid of the car - as result both of us have to be fitter and we save about £200 a month by using commuter cards

*We have started a square foot garden to help with food The Official Site of Square Foot Gardening and Mel Bartholomew, Originator and Author it takes up a very small space especially for just 2 and takes about an hour a week work once set up, uses less seeds, fetiliser and everything

*We are joining a local LETS scheme LETS Link UK: Homepage

*We go to local bring and takes

*I know your not a hippy like me lol but joining a local recycling group can really help as you reduce your waste, simple things like EcoBalls, Dryer Balls, cleaning with vinegar and lemon juice, cheaper longer lasting toiletries, Moon Cup etc can cut costs.

*Have you got a local group that advises on cutting energy bills? if not your electricity company may do

*cut out or reduce meat can allow you to make cheaper food I only buy it reduced

*I order my food from Asda and get it delivered I don't get the bargains but neither am I tempted by other things - thats another positive with no car I am less likely to just go out.

*And when your as poor as I have been for past few years yes I agree with Canuck nothing works better than paying my tithing even my sums somehow add up differently

- I probably have other ideas but things like cloth nappies you don't need lol

-Charley

[utcowboy]

I can testify to you that the principles of tithing are true!! If you put the Lord first in your life and your budget, the blessings of Heaven will fall to you. I am proof that this is so, my family has always had problems with money but since we came back to the church and have followed the commandment of tithing, we haven't came up short yet!! So how we always manage to have the money we need, we may not have any extra but we have enough to pay our bills and put food on the table and clothes on our backs. I know that you are struggling with the church right now, but go to your Lord and Savior, give your problems to him and keep the covenants that you've made with him and HE WILL bless you with everything you need.

I wish only the best for you and yours, may God watch over you and bless you with health, prosperity, and love.

[MaidservantX]

Other than the super advice that has already been given -- the law of tithing; and the covenant of keeping the Sabbath day holy are spiritual principles that if laid hold upon have direct and tangible effects upon an individual's ability to master the resources of this mortal earth. (And I'm not kidding! he he :) )

God bless.

[Aphrodite]

Thanks some good advice. Some things we cant seem to be able to reduce. Getting rid of the car is an absolute non option elgama!! Hubby needs it for work, he travels all over the south east and London as a decorator with all his gear in the car. which is where half our money goes-in the tank!) But I suppose I take your point about reducing what you can. I try to do that already, every week, but perhaps I could try harder and really look at areas to reduce our outgoings.

LOL Canuck u make me laugh. Luxuries. haha!!! Our luxuries consist of going to the town once a week to look at all the things we cant afford. LOL. u seem to have it sussed. I wish we had a few hundred a month left over at the end of each month!!!

I knew everyone would say tithing which is fair enough I suppose. If we paid tithing we would either not eat, rob would not be able to get to work, so no money to pay for ANYTHING, We would probably get taken to court for non payment of things that tithing would havet payed for, or evicted or worse. I don't think even any of you have enough faith to hope money would fall out of the sky, so you can appreciate why not. Im sure people know how missing one payment of something is enough to set you back weeks and Im not prepared to put us in that situation. Frankly, I think its irresponsible. Its not something like prayer you can test at will and have nothing to lose. If we pay tithing we have a HELL of a lot to lose. So its not an option at the moment. Plus, people who are not in the church manage. So I would rather look at it from a practical point of view.

Thanks for your suggestions so far!!! Keep em coming! Failing that if anyone feels particularly charitable and has a lot of spare cash....you know where to throw it hahaha just kidding. x

[Elgama]

actually when I pay my tithing money does just fall out of the sky, appear in my wallet etc - when I was pregnant with Ellie I made a joke in a chat room about needing to wash her nappies by hand, next thing I knew I had a cheque for £340 between that and the penny jar I had exactly the right amount for the washing machine I wanted in Curry's, which has saved me 1000s in nappies. I have received cheques and money from the weirdest sources but only when I pay my tithing. I remember panicking about getting her blankets I went into the charity shop I was working at and a lady put this huge bag of baby clothes and blankets in my hands.

Something we do I had forgotten was to work out our bills then take the money we have left out in cash, when my husband and I got married first because of immigration troubles he lost the job he was promised for 2 years of my marriage we managed on just my income support and our rent paid - its amazing when you know you only have £1.50 to last a week it will last that week. What you thought were essentials become luxuries.

Have you spoken to your Bishop? we are getting some help to get us straight, which I wasn't expecting he came to us.

-Charley

[checkerboy]

Its not something like prayer you can test at will and have nothing to lose. If we pay tithing we have a HELL of a lot to lose. So its not an option at the moment. Plus, people who are not in the church manage. So I would rather look at it from a practical point of view.

Two scriptures.

John 7:17

If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

If you try any of the commandments you will gain a witness that they are true.

Luke 12:48

For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Yeah other people don't pay tithing but they aren't under covenant to do so.

My two cents.

[Jbs2763]

check out daveramsey.com it is a financial advice show here in the states, but you can listen online and it probably applies to over there as well, ive been on his plan since oct, and paid off almost 20k in debt......

[Elgama]

check out daveramsey.com it is a financial advice show here in the states, but you can listen online and it probably applies to over there as well, ive been on his plan since oct, and paid off almost 20k in debt......

Money Saving Expert: Consumer Revenge - Credit Cards, Shopping, Bank Charges, Cheap Flights and more

UK equivalent - Alvin Hall also does great UK based books

-Charley

[skippy740]

I am a financial advisor, so I'll impart some basic wisdom (if I can).

First, pay your tithing. That one's obvious.

Second - it's time to become a better steward over your finances.

You need to evaluate EVERY expense that you have and question yourselves about it.

- Rent: Can we live somewhere else and pay less?

- Cable TV: Is it worth it for what we pay for it?

- Electric Bill: Is there a way to keep this lower?

- Car: Is it reliable? Are repairs (and downtime) better than an ongoing car payment with interest?

- Car Insurance: If I have limits above the state minimums, why? Can I raise my deductible to lower my bill?

- Life Insurance: If it's a permanent policy (which I like), can you take a loan out against it? Should you get a TERM policy instead for a while to keep your expenses lower?

This is the time to try to look at everything with a fresh set of eyes and question it. It's called a "Paradigm Shift".

At the same time, PLEASE keep in mind that you're trying to get more control, not "starve" yourself financially. Remember to have some fun!

Here's an idea that my wife and I recently did: We moved to a smaller apartment and now we pay about $100 less. Cable TV is included with the rent! We don't have a TV, but we use an older Dell PC with a TV card and remote control. We save on space and we can PASSWORD protect our TV from the kids! I needed a new laptop for my job, so I got the laptop along with a 22" flat panel monitor to be our new "Flat Screen TV".

Find ways to CUT costs considerably WHILE enjoying life! For example: cut out cable TV and get a DVD movie subscription instead. You can save money and have a nice life.

Something else to consider: Anything you have of value that you're not using anymore can usually be sold on ebay. You just need excellent feedback on yourself and a digital camera.

The next step is to determine what to do with the money you've saved from your expenses. I usually recommend some kind of online savings account - like INGdirect. This way, the money works hard for you, it's available, but it still takes a couple of days before you can get access to it directly. It's also fun to see the interest it's accumulating every day.

BTW, if your credit isn't so good, you might want to take a look at the link below to see an old posting of mine on another forum regarding SECURED credit lines and how to use them to build your credit and your savings at the same time.

Make Money, (re)Build credit and build your savings accounts - The Credit Info Center Forums

[Traveler]

My father was a very wealthy man but I though we were poor until I made an accidental discovery in college. We lived in a small house (that my father got in essence for free) and the family car was an old beater that we would repair ourselves. I asked my father (when I found out he was wealthy) why we lived in such a poor house and had so little. He told me that the worse plague on the earth is rich kids and his kids would never be a part of it.

I remember many times neighbors would come to my father for help. He never gave anybody a hand out and he never turned anyone away. Often he would say that he had some jobs for the neighbor and their boys that he would gladly pay them to help him. Sometimes they would turn my father down but most often they would do the jobs and be glad for the opportunity.

My father believed that work was the solution to everything. If I was out late at night he would get me up at 3 am to do various things that had suddenly become an emergency.

Now I will tell you my father’s great secret of wealth. He was asked many times for the secret of wealth and I have lived it and know it to be true.

The first thing is to think of tithing as an investment. Having G-d as your active partner in what you do is just good sense.

The next great secret is learning to love work. He thought work was more fun than play. Many times he told friend that no one could be wealthy and honest unless they loved to work. He also said most people think that if they are rich they won’t have to work but such thinking was more evil than being a thief. Work is a principle of the gospel and is in part why all should have callings. If you love work you will never have to look for a job because opportunity will not only find you but beg for your involvement. He taught me that the only way to learn to love work is by doing work and always doing more than is expected – never do less – ever. Work is an acquired taste and requires a lot of practice to get good at it.

The final great secret is to always spend less than you earn. Never even come close. Dad said that after 10% tithing that you should pay yourself 10%. That 10% is not a savings to spend later but for investing. You cannot be rich without investing and you cannot invest unless you save and you cannot save unless you spend less than you earn (and you can not earn unless you work). From the time I was 8 years old I was required to work. Dad, more or less required that I pay tithing and then set aside some (at least 10%) for investing before I could do anything else with my money. My wife use to have a hard time watching the investments just keep growing. She feels very different today. Our investments make 3 times what we do working. My brother’s favorite saying is that most people do not understand interest. It does not matter what they say – the way to tell if anybody understand interest is weather they pay it or get paid it. If they pay interest they do not understand it. Debt is the happy road fools glady take to poverty.

The Traveler

[Aphrodite]

Traveler your Dad sounds like a smart man. Skippy, how handy you're a financial advisor! I hear what you're saying. And you're absolutely right, we need to change the way we think about money. How do you go about doing that?? To change your whole way of thinking.

Most of your suggestions we already do. We dont have sky or cable, we have bad credit so we cant buy a reliable car on credit, and even of we could, we wouldnt be able to afford the payments. My Dad has actually just given us one of their cars, a volvo. they are solid but it needs a new gear box and still has 93k on the clock. We live in the cheapest house ossible. Our agency are always telling us, you have such a good deal there. They're right, any other house inout area is 100-150 quid more a month.

Your suggestions are good though, they basically have shown mehow we need to evaluate what we are spending. Your link didnt work though

An interesting update-Hubby rings me about half an hour ago and says he's gonna be working late tonight as he's got a big job on, which will enable him to earn double what he normally brings home. so he will earn a months worth of money in 2 weeks.

Now, if we had paid tithing Im sure you would all be saying, Oh look at the blessing!!! But we havent, so it goes to show you can move forward financially without paying tithing. Plus my Dad gave us a car-so I suppose things can still happen. It is exactly what skippy said-being a steward over our finances. I suppose its about controlling your spending, not letting it control you!!

By the way elgama-I have always wanted to grow my own vegetables. And if I had a garden, I would!!! Perhaps in the future when we have our own home (ha, if that ever happens).

[Alaskagain]

I don't think anyone has said that only bad things will happen if you don't pay tithing; or that good things will happen only if you do pay tithing. Tithing is a matter of faith, and it is voluntary, and it is between you and the Lord.

But, my personal advice is (if you haven't spent that extra 2 weeks income yet):

If you take that extra 2 weeks income, and pay it against your smallest debt you will soon have that debt paid off. Anytime you have extra quid or euro or dollar (or whatever your monetary unit is), put it against that debt. If you make any choice that saves you money (to eat out or at home, to rent a movie or read a book from the free library), put it in a jar and at the end of the week, pay it against that smallest debt.

Once you have that smallest debt paid off, take the monthly payment and add it to the regular monthly payment of your next smallest debt. If you follow this principle while paying your other regular monthly payments, you will eventually be totally out of debt.

Good luck to you!

[skalenfehl]

I'm going through the same thing right now because there are people who owe me a lot of money. I shared a little about it and how we can weather our financial storms in my testimony (if you're curious about reading it from my profile). I have learned some very valuable lessons in life about financial planning and prosperity, though in my line of work, is very dependent on the local economy. I couldn't begin to explain how I've systematically built my life for the last fifteen years, but I strongly recommend a small book, which I believe will change your life forever as far as how you view money and building financial stability and wealth. It's in a small paperback book that's been around for decades. It is one of the best books I will ever have read in my life. The fictitious stories are in the form of small tales/parables set in ancient Babylon:

The Richest Man in Babylon

Here's someone's report of the book that might help you along. If you can spend 7 bucks plus a little shipping, this book is seriously worth it. It will literally change your thinking about the money you earn and the money you spend. Anyone (with discipline and time) can become wealthy.

Chapter 1 The Man Who Desire Gold | Success Through Balance ©

Edit: One thing I should note is that one tenth that I earn goes to tithing. Period. After that, I follow the principles in this book.

[pushka]

Aphrodite, have you tried your local Citizens Advice Bureaux? I consulted mine when I had debt of between £1000 and £2000. They rang up the people I owed money to, and set up financial plans with them. They also assisted me in compiling a budget of my income/outgoings, so that I could work towards it each week.

Good Luck with getting out of debt, I hope you resolve the matters soon! :)

[zookeeper2five]

I TOTALLY relate to what you are going through. My Dh and I have been married for 10 yrs. In 2006, we had JUST paid all the debt off (cars, student loans, etc) and then ended up with a surprise twin pregnancy (we already had 3 kids - oldest had just turned 7 when the twins were born).

I ended up on bedrest. The twins were premature and the medical bills (OUR part) came to $20K. I ended up with Post Partum Psychosis and had to hire a nanny since I could not be home alone with the kids with all the meds I was on.

The twins also had issues with their formula so the special formula they had to be on cost us $600 a month.

Then two months after they were born, we had to move for dh's career. We ended up paying 2 mortgages for 6 months ($3000 a month for both homes!!) AND ended up having to bring $15K to the table because of the housing market.

We also had to get a new (to us) van because you cannot put 5 boosters and car seats into a minivan - the one we HAD JUST PAID OFF! :-(

So total debt we are looking at is $50K. It stinks. Sometimes I wonder WHY we have to go through this. There were things that happened that Heavenly Father could have forseen and changed for us. IE.. I went into preterm labor on August 28th, dh's company was bought by another company so our new insurance started Sept 1st. We ended up paying a deductible for each of us for TWO different insurance companies.

Obviously there is something we need to learn here, but I have no idea what it is. It is not like we went out on a $50K spending spree or anything.

I am VERY frugal with our money. I coupon a ton and end up getting all our Health and Beauty products for free.

We pay $1500 towards our debt, which is MINIMUM payments on the loans and cc's. This leaves us no money for tithing. It is REALLY hard. My husband works 80 hrs a week. We have sold all we can. Plus we still have 5 kids to raise and they cost MONEY! We are hoping to pay our two vehicles off in 11 months. Then that $500 will go towards tithing. At first I wanted to snowball it (we are doing Dave Ramseys Total Money Makeover Program), but my Spirit is SOOO weary, I have GOT to go back to the Temple. I miss it. I can feel how it is effecting myself, my marriage and my family. It will take us about 5 yrs to pay off this debt. It is not what we had planned, but it is our reality.

Our bishop just keeps telling us to pay our tithing and feed our kids beans. It is really ridiculous IMHO. My kids will NOT eat beans. And what will I use to feed my kids when I pay that $500? My grocery bill is only $600 for 7 already. And the 1 yr old twins eat more than my 4 and 7 yr old girls combined.

I feel for you. If you do not have kids, get out of debt NOW before they start coming. I HIGHLY recommend Dave Ramsey. The Total Money Makeover Book

Good luck!

[Palerider]

yes......go Dave Ramsey

[NeuroTypical]

Dang Zookeeper - that's a heck of a story. Hang in there!

[zookeeper2five]

Dang Zookeeper - that's a heck of a story. Hang in there!

Thanks. Sometimes it is downright depressing! But we keep going and going. The Bishop has told us that the first tithing check we give him, we will be considered a full tithe payer. And I CANNOT WAIT for that day. I am getting my recommend renewed and going back to the Temple that week!

Eventually we will be debt free again. And we have taken care of what we BOTH needed to so I am assured there will be no more surprise pregnancies! 5 kids is enough for this zookeeper! LOL

[miztrniceguy]

i recommend paying the tithing first...the bishops storehouse has more than just beans.

[zookeeper2five]

i recommend paying the tithing first...the bishops storehouse has more than just beans.

We do not have a Bishop's Storehouse anywhere near us... closest one is over 300 miles away. When people need food in our area, the RS pres takes them grocery shopping. They won't do it for 11 months.

Believe me, I have tried to figure out every which way i could to pay tithing. But my kids are not going to go hungry. And we are only paying minimums on our debt.

[miztrniceguy]

i understand it is difficult. i have been there. i let my wife handle tithing for 5 yrs for our family. jan 1 this yr i let her know i would start paying tithing on my paycheck myself. i began writing a check twice each month when i bring home the printout of my direct deposit...about 3 days before payday. i write the check and then give her the paperwork for everything after i put the check in the envelope.

since the first of the year i have gotten a promotion with 6 percent pay raise, then my annual evaluation with a 4% raise and a $550 bonus.

like the Lord says...prove him wrong...the windows of heaven are opened to pour blessings upon us.

don't get me wrong tho, i am not saying bad things wont still happen. i just found out i have more tears in my knee. i had a torn miniscus 2 yrs ago and have no cartilage in my knees. just walking is often painful and stairs always are.

still....trust in the Lord