john 3:16 question for mormons

[MorningStar]

as far as mary have sexual relations with God..okay

maybe not all mormons agree on their own doctrine then...

devout mormons have explained it this..way as a i posted earlier..

we do good things here we get to celestial heaven the very top we evolve into a god we have mulitple children,, we eventually will own our own planet and populate the earth...etc..and the whole process repeats itself...lds teaching states God was once a man that was created into a God correct?? Then he and someone tell me who he was married to that allowed him to evolve into a God and eventually have all these children that would populate planet earth? I assumed that would be Mary? Becaise the bible says mary was jesus mother? So then why was she on the earth when she got pregnant and not in heaven.

Does anybody understand my question?

There you go again, telling us what we believe. It is not our doctrine that God and Mary had relations. As Jenamarie explained, Mary was Jesus' earthly mother.

Studying the church for 4 months doesn't make you anything close to an expert on our beliefs. I wouldn't presume to tell you what you believe.

[lilered]

Your answer is found in

Matt: 1: -

18 ¶ Now the birth of Jesus Christ was this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Luke 1:

27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among awomen.

29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30 And the angel said unto her, aFear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name aJESUS.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the aSon of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the bthrone of his father cDavid:

33 And he shall areign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no bend.

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I aknow not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The aHoly Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the bSon of God.

Luke 2

15 And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.

16 And they came with ahaste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.

17 And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.

18 And all they that heard it awondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.

19 But Mary kept all these things, and apondered them in her heart.

20 And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.

21 And when eight days were accomplished for the acircumcising of the child, his name was called bJESUS, which was so cnamed of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

Bottom Line - Mary was conceived by the Holy Ghost

[lostnfound]

morning star your getting argumentive..I'm not sure why..I never said I had been studing morminism for just 4 months.. In last 4 months I have been really asking some difficult questions..but I have been looking at morminism for most of my life..but up untill recently it started to impact my life because I started to develop friends that were in the reglion..This is not a me against you morning star..

As far as jena,...Thank you. your insights cleared up my question! Actually that was first clear response I have recieved thus far. Thank you thank you!!!!!!!!!!!

and as far as the other post of scripture and mary concieved by the holy spirt...Exactly!

[bert10]

AGAIN there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. - Job 2:1

It appears that the Bible is contradicting itself. However, there is a truth that can reconcile that bible verses and others like it....to the One Begotten Son.

There is no need to reject the bible verses that contradicts John nor to re-interpret them to mean what the Christians wish them to mean.

The LDS have the truth and has revealed it to the world. And it reconciles the bible verses.

Peace be unto you

bert10

John 3:16 states "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever should believe in him should not perish but have everlasting life"

Begotten greek word means "one and only" He is one and only son is what the bible says.

How do you reconcile this to mormon teaching that teaches that God had multiple children?

Also why then would Mary not be in Heaven with God ruling with him? Since the bible states she is the mother of Jesus. This confused me in regards to what LDS teaches.

[Traveler]

John 3:16 states "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever should believe in him should not perish but have everlasting life"

Begotten greek word means "one and only" He is one and only son is what the bible says.

How do you reconcile this to mormon teaching that teaches that God had multiple children?

Also why then would Mary not be in Heaven with God ruling with him? Since the bible states she is the mother of Jesus. This confused me in regards to what LDS teaches.

It is written that Adam was "begotten" of G-d. How do you reconcile that?

The Traveler

[ztodd]

the bible says the heart is desperately wicked..so I don't trust my feelings on things.

If you don't trust your feelings, how do you know the bible is true in the first place?

[lostnfound]

It is written that Adam was "begotten" of G-d. How do you reconcile that?

The Traveler

What is the scripture reference here traveler?

[kona0197]

Traveler why do you leave the o out of the word God? That IS his title and name.

[lostnfound]

one more thought..the scriptures also tell us No one has seen God..but then the bible must be a fake to lds because someone had to see him at some point if he was man like us that turned into a God. Can current mormons remark on this at all? Am I completely out to lunch on lds teaching of God was once a man that evolved into a God. Can anybody deny this teaching?

Travelor..I can't find your reference for adam begotten from God point. You need to find scripture reference for me. :)

[MaidservantX]

lostnfound . . . these kinds of questions we have answered many, many times. We respect your beliefs. It is okay if you don't believe as we do. If you don't want anything different in your life than you already have, then I don't see the point to the questions. If you just want a clear explanation, then you have the same study materials available to you as we do: the scriptures, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (lds.org), and another great one (not officially by the church but where a lot of these questions have been asked and answered) is LDS FAIR Apologetics Homepage.

Happy seeking! :)

[Snow]

John 3:16 states "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever should believe in him should not perish but have everlasting life"

Begotten greek word means "one and only" He is one and only son is what the bible says.

How do you reconcile this to mormon teaching that teaches that God had multiple children?

Also why then would Mary not be in Heaven with God ruling with him? Since the bible states she is the mother of Jesus. This confused me in regards to what LDS teaches.

Oh brother.

Begotten is not a Greek word. It is English. The Greek word (transliterated) is "Monogenes" and it mean unique, single of it's kind or only - when used to describe Christ is denotes the only begotten son of God. (Greek lexicon based on Thayer's and Smith's Bible Dictionary plus others; this is keyed to the large Kittel and the "Theological Dictionary of the New Testament.")

That's exactly what The Church of Jesus Christ believes, that as the scriptures say, Christ is the only begotten son of God.

As I assume you already know, we are children of God in the sense that he created our spirits, which is not the same sense in which Christ is the only begotten son. Additionally, when we accept Christ and gospel we all become adopted sons and daughters of God the Father.

I don't think you are confused (as you pretend) at all.

Beyond that, to the scripture you posted, since we believe in Christ and therefore have everlasting life as promised, what's it matter? Exactly what is your point?

[Traveler]

one more thought..the scriptures also tell us No one has seen God..but then the bible must be a fake to lds because someone had to see him at some point if he was man like us that turned into a God. Can current mormons remark on this at all? Am I completely out to lunch on lds teaching of God was once a man that evolved into a God. Can anybody deny this teaching?

Travelor..I can't find your reference for adam begotten from God point. You need to find scripture reference for me. :)

For your answer to your question to me - Try Luke 3:38

As to your other question in this post you are confused about many things. Those that have seen Jesus have seen G-d. Please try to be more understanding and open to sacred things.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Traveler why do you leave the o out of the word God? That IS his title and name.

The internet is open to all throughout the world. It is a personal commitment that I have made concerning the internet to keep such things sacred.

The Traveler

[kona0197]

Well I feel sorry for you. That makes for so much extra typing. I do admire your commitment though.

[Gillebre]

it's like lostnfound came right from the 'rag on mormons' fan club to litter the site with every question in the book that's been beaten over and over to death.

you would like clear answers? Go to the source: lds.org, or even mormon.org. Another good resource is fairlds.org.

You want the answers? Try the official sources on Mormon beliefs...the first two I mentioned above. Otherwise, asking on this site is only providing you with the opinions and perhaps almost frustrated headaches some receive of this thread. :)

It's like you come with every question that those opposed to Mormonism would throw, in an effort to draw members away to 'the light' or something...not saying you are or that being your intent at all, simply an observation out of my own personal experience. I hope you get the answers you're looking for...remember that this site is simply the thoughts and opinions of some members, even nonmembers of the LDS Church. Treat it as such, because if someone says something and you take it as 'mormons believe <insert someones personal take here>' then that's wrong...Mormons believe what is clearly stated and laid out on LDS.org and Mormon.org.

Not meaning to sound mean or the like...

Gill

[Dr T]

As far as jena,...Thank you. your insights cleared up my question! Actually that was first clear response I have recieved thus far. Thank you thank you!!!!!!!!!!!

That's Jenamarie sir not Jena. Since you're new here, we'll let it (and the other time u used it in this) slide this time. See Jenamarie-just looking out for your request no not shorten your name like that

[WillowTheWhisp]

I know we may have been asked these questions by thousands of people before but for each person asking it is their own first time and means as much to them as if the question had never been asked before.

John 3:16 states "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever should believe in him should not perish but have everlasting life"

Begotten greek word means "one and only" He is one and only son is what the bible says.

How do you reconcile this to mormon teaching that teaches that God had multiple children?

Also why then would Mary not be in Heaven with God ruling with him? Since the bible states she is the mother of Jesus. This confused me in regards to what LDS teaches.

Can I just flip back to your original question for a moment?

Jesus is God's only begotten son. We Mormons say that we are all sons and daughters of God. So the first query is how can we all be sons and daughters of God if the Bible says that Jesus is his only begotten son? OK, the answer lies in the question. The word 'begotten'. The Bible does not say that Jesus is God's only son, but rather that he is the only begotten son. You say that 'begotten' means 'unique'.

Let's look at what the dictionary tells us 'begotten' means:

1.To procreate, as a father or sire; to generate; --

commonly said of the father.

[1913 Webster]

2. To get (with child.) [Obs.] --Shak.

[1913 Webster]

3. To produce as an effect; to cause to exist.

[1913 Webster]

So, according to the definition in relation to offspring it means the physical process of procreating a new human being. Nowhere does it imply that begotten means unique or that any begetter can only beget the once.

Let's look at some 'begetting' in the Bible:

Genesis 10 contains quite a lot of begetting, but notably in verse 13

"And Mizraim begat Ludim and Anamim and Lehabim and Naphtuhum" (subsequent verses go on to tell us of more children whom he begat.

Then verse 15

"And Canaan begat Sidon, his firstborn, and Heth (and subsequent verses relate to more children)

So quite clearly begetting is nowhere near unique. It refers to the procreating of however many children they procreate.

That is why there needed to be the word 'only' in relation to Jesus where it says 'only begotten'.

We were all spirit children of our Heavenly Father, along with Jesus who in that pre-existence was our spirit brother. We all came down to earth and were begotten here of earthly parents (in the flesh). The Bible doesn't mention 'in the flesh' for any of the begettings because that is what is referred to by the very word itself, hence why it doe not need to be emphasised in relation to Jesus Christ.

Jesus was also begotten, he also was born into a body of flesh and blood and bone. However, the Bible takes pains to emphasise that he was begotten not of man but of God, meaning that the physical Father of his physical body was God the Father.

Quite how this was done the Bible does not tell us and we do not really need to know. All we need to know it that it was. Some have speculated, I noticed recently that someone even suggested artificial insemination which wasn't even dreamt of when the Bible was written. The fact is we do not know. All that we do know is that Mary was chosen to be his mother and that Joseph was not his father.

Now the question regarding Mary. She was the mother of Jesus, in the flesh. We know this because we are told that she gave birth to him. She was also with us in the spirit world. She was our sister, like us a daughter of our Heavenly Father. She was not our Heavenly Mother. She was a daughter of our Heavenly Mother. We know very little about our Heavenly Mother other than that she exists. Again some have speculated that God has more than one wife and that we do not all have th same Heavenly Mother. We do not know. We have not been told. It isn't important right now.

We are told the things which matter and which are important and when we have learned those things then we may be ready to learn more.

The things that are important are that Jesus Christ is the son of God, that he was born, lived and died, that he took upon himself the responsibility for all our sins if we will repent and accept the salvation he offers us, that he rose again from the dead and ascended into Heaven to be with his Father, that he intercedes with the Father on our behalf, that we should pray to the Father in his name, that he sent the Holy Ghost as a witness, guide and comforter.

Yes we should be obedient to his teachings and we will be judged by whether we are or not - but the salvation part, the overcoming of death, that part is a free gift. It's up to us whether we accept it or not. Once we do accept it though if we then disobey his commandements (love one another, that kind of thing) isn't that a bit like throwing the gift back in his face?

I hope all that makes sense.

[lostnfound]

Gill, Thank you for the input..I will definetley go to those other sites that someone else mentioned that I have never heard of before.

As far as the person who said begotten was not a greek word..hmm.i think I meant that the greek word meaning to the word begotten was one and only. The nt was was written in greek and the old hebrew.

and to address some of you that are on the defense. I still can't figure that one out. If someone asked me questions like " How can you believe that silly bible, don't you know it can't be trusted?" I love questions like this..Because it is easy to answer...or other questions " HOw can you believe in creationism when evolution has been proven?" Another easy question....i don't get offended or question their motives for asking. Maybe they are trying to get a better handle of someone else's belief system that they hang on to so tightly.

To the rest of you that actually just answered my questions as openly and honest as you could. Thank you! I will soon be going into ministry full time and this only helps me better understand lds. Books are not three demininsial..people are way more complex then anything I could read in a book.

[lostnfound]

As far as jena,...Thank you. your insights cleared up my question! Actually that was first clear response I have recieved thus far. Thank you thank you!!!!!!!!!!!

That's Jenamarie sir not Jena. Since you're new here, we'll let it (and the other time u used it in this) slide this time. See Jenamarie-just looking out for your request no not shorten your name like that

opps jenamarie...and just for clarification I am a girl..lol..will let that slide too..:):):)

[lostnfound]

For your answer to your question to me - Try Luke 3:38

As to your other question in this post you are confused about many things. Those that have seen Jesus have seen G-d. Please try to be more understanding and open to sacred things.

The Traveler

Luke 3:38 reads..the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Jesus was in Heaven and not created..Adam was created in the image of God..Formed by God in the garden. a great story in Genesis.

In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being " john 1:1-3-4

The word became flesh."

begotten means in greek "one and only.. or born one.

beget which some confuse..means bring into being..

Instead of using webster to do a word study you guys need a hebrew/greek dictionary.

[Misshalfway]

I am not sure I really understand the argument here. Jesus is the only begotton....or only physically born child of God the Father. All the rest of us and all the earth and its many creations are also created of God. But Jesus is Special. He became flesh, but also is absolutely divine. Sounds like both sides are saying the same thing.

The only question I see is whether or not Jesus was created. We (i am LDS) believe that God the Father and Jesus Christ are separate beings. We believe Jesus is the creator of this world. We believe He did this under the direction of the Father. We believe that all mankind are literally the spirit children of God the Father and lived with him in spirit form before we came to earth. Jesus was there as we all were there. We knew God and Jesus and knew we would be leaving for a short experience on earth and that we would die and return to Him after our experience was over to report and be judged. We had two problems with earth life. Sin and death. We couldn't return to Father without those two obstacles being removed. Jesus performed the task of paying for our sins and overcoming death. You are wrong by believing that LDS people believe that they can earn salvation. Our Lord and Savior performed what we could not and thru his absolute grace and mercy, we can each receive the forgiveness and cleansing necessary to return to Father in Heaven. What is often characterized as "earning salvation" is our belief that the Atonement of Jesus Christ is not completely free. All, no matter what their actions or station on earth was be literally resurrected. Everyone will receive a physical body. But to overcome sin, there are requirements. Faith, Repentance, Baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost are necessary components for ones sins to be washed away. At the time of baptism, a person covenants or promises to be obedient to the commandments of God. We are then clean and members of the Lord's fold....but must continue in obedience and repentance thru-out our lives. After our lives, we will meet Father in Heaven again and be judged according to our knowledge and stewardship. Then a just reward will be given. All will be saved, but not all will be exalted. None of us can do anything of ourselves. We MUST have the Savior to accomplish anything. But our efforts and dedications are also important to the Lord. He requires that we try and he gives us knowledge and commandments and consequences to help us learn. It is up to us to choose. It is the one gift that is ours alone to give. We give our will and our lives and our sins to him, and we become clean and new and them he, thru our obedience, transforms our natures into the Christ-like.

Mary was especially chosen to perform the wonderful duty of delivering and raising the Son of God. We do not deify her. We do not worship her. But we honor her as we do the rest of the Lord's obedient servants.

[lostnfound]

You are wrong by believing that LDS people believe that they can earn salvation. Our Lord and Savior performed what we could not and thru his absolute grace and mercy, we can each receive the forgiveness and cleansing necessary to return to Father in Heaven. What is often characterized as "earning salvation" is our belief that the Atonement of Jesus Christ is not completely free. All, no matter what their actions or station on earth was be literally resurrected. Everyone will receive a physical body. But to overcome sin, there are requirements. Faith, Repentance, Baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost are necessary components for ones sins to be washed away. At the time of baptism, a person covenants or promises to be obedient to the commandments of God. We are then clean and members of the Lord's fold....but must continue in obedience and repentance thru-out our lives. After our lives, we will meet Father in Heaven again and be judged according to our knowledge and stewardship. Then a just reward will be given. All will be saved, but not all will be exalted. None of us can do anything of ourselves. We MUST have the Savior to accomplish anything. But our efforts and dedications are also important to the Lord. He requires that we try and he gives us knowledge and commandments and consequences to help us learn. It is up to us to choose. It is the one gift that is ours alone to give. We give our will and our lives and our sins to him, and we become clean and new and them he, thru our obedience, transforms our natures into the Christ-like.

Mary was especially chosen to perform the wonderful duty of delivering and raising the Son of God. We do not deify her. We do not worship her. But we honor her as we do the rest of the Lord's obedient servants.

In all due respect..by your own admission of forgiveness of sins of how lds get forgiveness of sins you are claiming a works based salvation. Baptism does not save you. YOu said I quote "we must continue in obedience and repentace thru out our lifes" This is same argument Catholics love to use. Have you ever read through romans and James.. without the lds commentary to interepret for you? Just read through this books they are life changing books.

just something to consider for you or others..justification is alot different then santification.

[Hemidakota]

lostnfound;189983

begotten means in greek "one and only.. or born one.

beget which some confuse..means bring into being..

Instead of using webster to do a word study you guys need a hebrew/greek dictionary.

Greek meaning word for 'begotten' is 'Monogenes' or single of its kind.

There are nine associated verses that uses this word in bible.

[Jenamarie]

Have you ever read through romans and James.. without the lds commentary to interepret for you? Just read through this books they are life changing books.

I find this rather condesending. I have infact read the NT, many many times, both on my own time, and with "LDS commentary" and still believe that we are Saved through Christ, but that our works play a part in it. I think the key difference is that LDS do not believe in "once saved always saved". You can accept Christ with your lips all you want, but if your heart isn't truely His (humbling yourself, repenting of sins, loving your neighbor, etc.) then it will profit you nothing. Accepting Christ means accepting ALL of Him; not just His Holy Name, but His commandments.

Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Of course we must continue in obedience and repentance throughout our lives. We cannot just accept the Atonement and then think we can carry on sinning to our heart's content and still be saved. When Jesus forgave sin he followed it with the commandment to 'sin no more'.

I think there seems to be a misunderstanding of 'works' as if we are earning our salvation. The gift of salvation is free but we must then be obedient for it to remain valid. As the Bible tells us 'faith without works is dead'. You can't just pay lip service to Christianity. It has to be your whole life.