Finrock

Good Afternoon jinc1019. Welcome to the forums. I hope you're having a fine day! :) Me believing in Heavenly Mother is not contingent upon her being referenced in written scripture. I've received my witness from the source of scripture, which is the Spirit. However, there is mention of Her and has been. Many references to Her have been removed, distorted, forgotten, dismissed, ignored, explained away, etc. But, most important to realize in all of this is that the Spirit is the source of scripture. The Spirit's utterances are scripture. -Finrock

There is a Heavenly Mother. There are Goddesses. -Finrock

Hi Vort. I hope you've been well! :) The video goes to great lengths to demonstrate this point. One point the video makes is that Jackson County, Missuori was destroyed by the Union soldiers which fulfilled prophecy given in D&C because of the persecution of the saints there. It is interesting in 105 God also promises to fight our battles for us for Zion. Union General Order No. 11 -Finrock

Those who are truly evil take pleasure in doing evil. Satan was a liar from the beginning. He lied about having a plan. He had no plan. He knew his plan would not work to bring about God's purposes. However, Satan wants to control and dominate through force. He takes pleasure in bringing people to submission. He has the life he desires. Think of the mentality of a serial killer. They don't think what they are doing is wrong. They don't care because it is all about them. Satan has no empathy. He believes he is right. He doesn't care that he is rebelling against what is good. What is good is in direct opposition to what Satan truly desires and gets pleasure from. -Finrock

Another thing to consider is that we can't be tested without opposition. Our faith cannot be tested without a challenge to it. Anti-Mormon material provides a test. Some people pass, some people fail. Some people avoid the test. -Finrock

Good Morning Bini. I hope you've been well! :) The more I live and love the gospel of Jesus Christ, the less threatening opposing views become because I become more certain in who and what I am. -Finrock

I was looking at other usage of the term personage: There is a connection between personage and "flesh and bones". Notice that the spirits of just men are not described as personages. The two personages here, we know are God the Father and Jesus Christ who both had bodies of flesh and bones when they appeared to Joseph Smith. Moroni had a body of flesh and bones. Another connection between personage and flesh and bones. Now there is this usage from D&C 130: If I accept the connection between personage and flesh and bones, then "personage of spirit" is the opposite of "personage". The Spirit has a body but not a body of flesh and bones. Given this understanding we can re-examine the questions: Q. How many personages are there in the Godhead? A. Two: the Father and the Son. If personages means persons with bodies of flesh and bones, then there are only two personages in the Godhead. There are only two members of the Godhead who have bodies of flesh and bones. Q. What is the Father? A. He is a personage of glory and of power. If personage means "person with body of flesh and bones", then the Father is a personage of glory and of power. He is a flesh and bones person of glory and of power. -Finrock

Thank you. I don't understand why you would at all feel my comments would constitute fault finding in leaders. I received revelation that helped me to realize that the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost aren't necessarily the same thing. In my thinking I had put the emphasis of God's identity on His body. I guess the reason why I did that was because this is something that is different from most other religions. However, in the past I didn't fully appreciate that God's Spirit is like our spirit or we are like His Spirit. Many prophets, many apostles, ancient and modern, have equated spirit with mind. That what we call the "mind" is our spirit and it is the same with God. His Spirit is His Mind. If we want to know the mind and will of the Lord, we need to possess His Spirit. I think that your assumption that I am trying to find fault in Church leaders has prevented you from seeing what I am really trying to say. Look, if anything my comments imply our leaders are fallible. We are all fallibly human. This isn't scary to me, though. I'm not talking about something I'm worried about. I am an active member of my ward and I try to magnify my calling. Our ward is large in number but small in attendance. That means I've played many roles in our ward. I've never been a bishop nor have I been an elders quorum president. Now, in my various callings, perhaps my stewardship is smaller, but I am bound by oath to seek after the Spirit in fulfilling my calling and being led by revelation just as any prophet or apostle is bound to seek after the Spirit in fulfilling their callings. Besides the area of stewardship, there is no difference. Now, I know that I am a weak man. I am good at talking about all of this stuff but I am poor at doing it. However, it is as clear as day to me that God wants us to be in communion with Him in precisely the way that He has described it in Scripture and this requires striving towards a higher standard. I don't have a problem with admitting that Joseph received additional knowledge between 1835 and 1843. Where we seem to disagree is that I believe the new revelations added to, but did not take away from, the older revelation. We get a more complete picture of the Godhead using both revelations. Not a major point, but why didn't Joseph remove LoF from the canon of scripture after he received further revelation if the further revelation was contradictory to the earlier revelation? I started out my post telling you what I had experienced. My appreciation and understanding of the distinction between the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost came as a result of me studying the LoF. I have read D&C 130 (or 132?) many times and never had I considered the Spirit of God as the actual person of God, His Mind. So, both revelations complement each other. The D&C scripture helped me to appreciate God's glorified exalted body. The LoF helped me to appreciate God's Spirit, who He is, His Mind. I wasn't claiming that my example could be found completely in the LoF but that this is how I mesh the two scriptures in to one. There is nothing contradictory but instead complementary. This all started out, however, because I believe that LoF provides us with a vision of our true purpose that is not understood or understood well by the general membership. This is evidenced by the fact that we continue to struggle with doing home teaching and member missionary work. A very high percentage of priesthood holders and probably females too are involved or have been involved with pornography. Both of these are symptoms of spiritual weakness and sickness that can be overcome by getting a true vision of who you are and what your purpose here in life is. I fall in to both of the above negative categories, by the way. I know that I am not filled with God's Spirit. I know because there have been times when I have been filled with His Spirit and I know the difference. When I have the Spirit I love home teaching. I don't ever dread it. I have no fear in sharing the gospel with people. And when I do share it, it is never strained. It just comes out naturally. I feel am more inclined to think of others. I look for ways to help and to make others happy. This is what we want and this is what we need if we are going to truly become disciples of Jesus Christ. This is what we are striving for. This is the vision. LoF beautifully reaffirms with additional clarity and emphasis where our focus should be. It teaches us how we should approach God and our study of God. It gives us a blueprint as to how we can get answers to our questions. I don't believe God removed the LoF from canon because it contained false doctrine. I believe that the Apostles at the time were trying their best to do what was right and follow the inspiration they received. If they made a mistake, then it is as God intended. As has been mentioned, its not as if the material was not available for study and we even have some Apostles who have attested to its truthfulness. Clearly the LoF emphasizes us having the Second Comforter and communing with God face to face. This is a high standard. I think it is clear that the general membership is not living this higher standard. We have an excuse now because we can say that, well, it isn't emphasized in scripture. If LoF were left as canon "I'd bet dollars to donuts" that the members would still not be living the higher standard but now they'd have no excuse, because clearly it is emphasized in LoF. LoF is scripture. I'm sure of it. I accept that our leaders removed it for a wise purpose (which my speculation may or may not be accurate) but I don't accept that it was removed because it actually contains false doctrine. In the end I'm really just interested in sharing ideas and having a discussion. I'm not trying to make the point that our leaders are apostate or whatever. I'm not trying to say anything like that. I'm telling you what I have observed and experienced as a member who is active and trying to be an effective priesthood leader in my little neck of the woods. I believe our leaders are teaching us true doctrine. I am a leader in my ward. I am trying my best to teach true doctrine. But I know that I am also a weak man and so I know that I will never do or say everything perfectly. I will never make all of the right decisions in mortality. But our leaders have told us it is time to hasten the work which means getting the Spirit in to your life as you have been promised in the sacrament prayer. -Finrock

Good Morning Just_A_Guy. I hope you are well! :) I get the impression that you aren't really talking with me any more but rather you are clumping my comments in with others. I don't know what anyone's agenda is. I'm sharing with you my experiences. I am talking about things that I have attained independent of anyone else on this earth. I am not contending with you or trying to make some broader point. I have no problems saying what I really mean. I try very hard to say what I mean and to mean what I say. I have been a member most of my life. I have lived in many different states and a different country. I have attended many, many wards and branches and been a part of several different stakes. Take that for what it is worth. As far back as I can remember, the one thing that every place I have been a member at has in common is a struggle to do home teaching and member missionary work. Poor home teaching and poor member missionary work is not the problem. It is a symptom. The real issue is that members aren't filled with the Spirit. This speaks to the pornography issue among other things. Not too long ago our stake had a special focus on the issue of pornography. We had someone from the stake visit our ward and give a special presentation in the which they provided a statistic that 60% of men in our stake have had some issue with pornography in the past or currently are. Even if this statistic is wrong because I remembered wrong or they used wrong data, it is clear that the Church leadership see pornography as a big problem. And it is. Now, how can you expect the general priesthood membership to be filled with love for others when they can't bridle their passions? How can I or anyone expect to be filled with God's Spirit when engaging in such a destructive and desensitizing activity? This is a fact: When we are filled with the Spirit then we will need no person or manual to tell us to do our home teaching and to do missionary work. It will come as a natural consequence of having the Spirit, because when you have God's Spirit, you have His Mind, therefore you are going to do the things that He would do. Our job is to put Babylon behind us, completely and absolutely. We must work with our might to be filled with the Spirit. We should make any sacrifice so that we can have the Spirit. We should forsake any and all things so that we can have the Spirit. No. I'm stating exactly what I stated. However, using your example, I'm saying the fact that we an addiction recovery program and we have such an extensive need for such things is a symptom of a spiritual epidemic. We can't see it with our eyes but the spiritual illness is real. This spiritual illness is why we have such a need for addiction recovery programs. Priesthood holders, in large quantities, are lusting more after the things of the world than they love and are seeking after the things of God. They can't have the Spirit in such a state and therefore they will not have the Mind of God. I quote from the Bible: Where the heart of each person is I cannot know. I was trying to use my life as an example of how God meant for us to experience the experiences we have because He intends to bring to pass much good and "save much people alive". I don't know the history of how the LoF was removed. I know very little, in fact. What I know is that it was removed because this duly delegated committee found that portions of the LoF were potentially confusing. Each person involved in the decision had their individual mind and heart. I don't know their heart, but I assume that their heart is good. Regardless of how it was removed, it was meant to be removed. But, because it was meant to be removed does not answer the question as to why it was removed. Now, we can argue that it was removed because it was superseded by D&C 130. However, this isn't a foregone conclusion. I have tried to demonstrate in multiple ways how Lecture Five and D&C are not contradictory, but rather are teaching separate yet complimentary aspects of the Godhead. God is a Spirit. This is a fact. Yes, He has a body, but He is, at His core, a Spirit first. We are all spirits. God the Father is the Supreme Ruler of the Universe. Jesus Christ gets His glory from the Father. To which members of the Godhead do we most often address in all the ordinances we take part in whether formal or informal (using ordinance broadly here)? Father and Jesus have primacy in the Godhead, but by virtue of the fact that they all share the Spirit of God, or God's Mind, they are one. The Son is filled with God's Spirit and the Holy Ghost is filled with God's Spirit. The Holy Ghost acts as a spiritual companion from the Godhead who carries God's Spirit to you. The Holy Ghost can comfort you. But, the Holy Ghost is filled with God's Spirit. They are one and share the same Mind. The relationship that we build is with the Father through the Son. We do not build such a personal relationship with the Holy Ghost. -Finrock

I guess a warning that this post ended up being a bit personal so I apologize for that but my thoughts are sincere. I guess I don't assume that the committee or the prophets necessarily acted knowingly in removing the LoF from canon. Or, said another way, I don't assume that God deliberately instructed His stewards to remove the LoF from canon. It is possible that this committee did indeed ignorantly remove scripture. However, that is the state of the leadership of that time. If that makes sense. Meaning, God works with what we are. He knows who we really are. There is no delusion in Him. He is not fooled or foiled in the bit. I guess I'm saying that the LoF got removed because the Church leadership at the time rejected it, either by committee or personally. God seldom interferes with our decisions. Our liberty to choose and freedom of agency are paramount. So, things happened as they happened. But, to God all things are known and so He knows how to use all things for His good and for His purposes. For whatever reason, the people of the Church were not ready for the LoF, but all things are known to the Father, and perhaps Father in mercy, like with the Israelites, gave us our ten commandments rather than the full law, knowing the people would also reject it. Please know that I am fully aware that my position assumes that the LoF are true, but this is what I am offering...my position. I think that we are seeing a rebirth, of sorts, of all of this information that has been lost. The internet has been the catalyst to unearth all sorts of useful and profitable information from our past. Doctrine that hasn't been emphasized as much is beginning to be emphasized again. We need these things. We need something to wake us up from our dream and realize that we are God's sons and daughters. We are divine. We have access and we are commanded to be one with God just as the Son and the Holy Ghost are one with the Father. If we have the Father's Spirit, in its fullness, just as the Son and the Holy Ghost possess it, are we not then one? Will we not then be one people, without any -ites? We are one people. We just need to believe it and act on that belief and don't let anything dissuade you or cause you to falter. God is there for us and He will comfort us when we are broken. I don't say this as some platitude. As a young child I was raped by my mother and grandmother between the ages of four and six. I have not known what it means to be loved unconditionally by my mother. For years I have suffered, ignorantly mostly, from the effects of my abuse. I don't want to get in to details but I know that the atonement of Jesus Christ is real because when I cried out to God for relief, I received it and it was only God through His Son that could succor me and make me whole. Because Christ suffered for me. I was able to cast burdens that I had been carrying for years upon His shoulders, as I found rest. He poured out His Spirit upon me. I know God lives and that He loves me and that He has a purpose for my life. As miserable and as lonely as my life has seemed at times, God has been there with me all along and He has used all of my life's experience to shape me in to who I am. I was ignorant to this most of my life. I denied truth. Even after I accepted the truth, I denied that it affected me. I had no inclination that God was using these experiences for my good. Now, in retrospect, I can see how my suffering has made me better. As I have relied on the atonement and as I have cried out to God, my weaknesses have begun to be made strong. What can I do but be grateful to Heavenly Father for giving me these experiences which have lead to many great blessings in my life. Exactly. I think having a correct understanding of what's really going on here (as in our true purpose, condition) will help wake people up to their awful situation. We need to remember that we are sons and daughters of God. We came here on earth to be tested through our bodies, not to get lost in the world. I think we are too bound to tradition (traditions of men outside the Church and traditions of men inside the Church) and too married to doing things through policy and procedure as opposed to doing things by the Spirit (and whether its God's Spirit or the Holy Ghost, it really doesn't matter because they are one). I need to step up and practice what I preach. I need to exercise faith and cast aside all doubt. If I can fulfill these things then perhaps God's power will be manifested in my actions and words so that my brothers and sisters can be motivated to seek after righteousness as well and get their own witness and their own assurance. Pornography and that plague can be overcome. And God's power is what is going to do it. Nothing else. No committee, no reasoning, no wisdom of man will change lives, only the power of God and if there is no one wielding God's power then God's power is not manifest. We need to possess God's power because our temple is pure. I don't know. Was this a rhetorical question? -Finrock

Good Afternoon Just_A_Guy. I hope all is well with you this weekend! :) I apologize for the length of this quote, but please indulge me: Honest introspection time: Are we, as a people, exhibiting this type of faith? Do we know and recognize what we can accomplish by our faith? Why would God exhibit such great power as to remove a mountain during ancient times yet He would not exhibit it in modern times, if it was up to God to manifest His power? If we aren't seeing these great works it is because we lack faith. We, in some degree or another, are in a state of unbelief. It is like being in a dream and finally recognizing that you are in a dream and that what you thought was reality indeed is not. We need to fully realize that this life is not who or what we are. We are in actuality spirits, clothed in bodies. We did not originate here. We are not "of the earth". This sphere that we are in, is indeed a sphere, a sphere that is temporal and temporary. Our true identity, our mind (that part that makes us, us) is our spirit. Before anything else, we are spirit. It is spirit that glorifies matter. Without spirit, there is no life. God's Spirit is exalted, and glorified. However, His Spirit could not be glorified without the body, the matter. In my view, matter acts as a sort of polish to our spirits, until we are perfectly bright. My point, however, is that unless we recognize reality as it truly is, we cannot exercise faith unto salvation. We cannot and will not have the faith to move mountains or its equivalent. We cannot and will not be able to withstand the coming trials and tribulations. This is what all of the prophets have told us. Even in last general conference I counted at least ten or more references from various general authorities that we live in perilous times. We have been forewarned, warned, and continue to be warned to be prepared. Now, this is all anecdotal, but this sort of emphasis on our roles as sons and daughters of God, seems to be missing. What I mean by emphasis that is missing, is that we are making excuses for the reasons why we aren't exercising God's power through faith to bring about His purposes on this earth. Now, this is not to say that miracles have ceased. On an individual level we have countless examples of people who have exercised great faith and have brought about much good because of it. But, collectively, we seem to think that faith, seeing visions, conversing with angels, speaking with God, and all those sorts of things are stuff for other people like prophets and the super righteous. Anyways, I've kinda gotten sidetracked, but the LoF puts an emphasis on this point and many others that, in my experience, is lacking. Not that it isn't there or to be found, but we don't emphasize it. And perhaps this has been a good thing. Now, speaking speculatively, perhaps with LoF left as Scripture people would have still rejected it because it seems strange and contradictory and they would have been under greater condemnation because it was canonized scripture. With it removed, God can be more merciful and those who are looking can find it. One last point, in all of this, my overarching point has also been that none of us are more special. That means no person in all of existence is loved more than any other person by our Heavenly Father. He is no respecter of persons. We can expect Him to treat us as He would treat any "great" prophet. He will do this when we exercise faith. We have equal, and without reservation, access to the same privileges that has been afforded to every prophet, prophetess, or apostle. So, this isn't about some elite special few. This is about the fact that we are all, indeed, elect if we hear and obey His voice. -Finrock

Good afternoon Just_A_Guy. I hope you are doing well! :) These aren't facts. Lecture five does not contradict D&C 130 anymore than John 4:24 contradicts D&C 130. You are creating a false dichotomy. Lecture five is teaching a different aspect of the Godhead, not a contradiction. The Lectures on Faith also makes clear that the Godhead consist of three personages. You are misunderstanding the scripture and calling it a contradiction. I have received my own independent witness that the Lectures on Faith are eternal doctrine. Of course you are free to believe what you wish, but just as I know the Book of Mormon is true I know the LoF are true doctrine. Same Spirit, same witness, same feeling, same glorious vision in my mind. I know you probably aren't implying this but let me remind you that having a calling (any calling) doesn't make one infallible. Titles are meaningless in the end. But, even so, it could be possible that at the time the Church wasn't ready for this doctrine and thus it was taken away. It could very well have been done in wisdom. We need not necessarily suppose that the committee who removed the LoF did so in error. It might have been God's will just as He has withheld many things from us because of our unbelief. Have you truly taken the time to comtemplate what the consequences of accepting the LoF as eternal doctrine entails? Meaning, what would the beliefs in the Lectures require of you? If you began to implement the truths found in LoF in to your life, what would be the outcome? It would be greater understanding of the Godhead, greater faith in Jesus Christ, and greater power to bring about God's purposes on earth. I think the time is about right where we are ready to accept greater truths. Sometimes truth can cause us to doubt because we aren't ready to accept it. Righteousness can be a stumbling block too. I don't think it is a coincidence that there has been a major project to bring to light the writings of Joseph Smith from relative obscurity (Joseph Smith Papers). In my anecdotal experience members of the Church are afraid and peevish about some of the doctrines that has been preached in the past because it seemed so foreign or it didn't jive with the popular tradition. However, we have nothing to be afraid or ashamed of. It is time we embraced all true doctrine and stop running away from things that are supposedly "weird" or "strange". We are living beneath our privilege and LoF restores to the forefront what it is we are truly doing here on this earth and it details what God really wants to give us. -Finrock

Good Evening Lakumi. I hope you've had a good day! :) There is a difference between a principle and then how that principle is implemented. Our founding documents acknowledge that God is the Creator and that us humans derive our rights from God. The government's sole function is to protect the inalienable rights of the people who established the government. The founding fathers did not conceptualize nor do they approve of a federal government that exist today. Most of the founding fathers believed and knew that they originated from a Higher Being, or God. Because of this belief in God they believed and knew that our rights come from God. I add my independent testimony that our rights come from God. This is a matter of fact and it is critical to establishing a truly free society. When you have a government that is devoid of God and then a general population who finds God and the things of God offensive, then you are on the road to full out tyranny. If we put our trust in men and women who are as flawed and as corrupt as the rest of us, then we will reap what we sow. We will reap corrupt fruit. And yet, it seems our eyes are blinded, because there is so much apathy. It seems there is a big segment of society who doesn't care that they are in reality and in actuality stealing money from other people so that they can have the necessities of life. The abuses of these systems are rampant. On craigslist you can buy EBT cards (food stamp cards). Report, after report, of overspending, abuses, and neglect by the government to truly fix the problem. What does this tell you? It tells you that the government doesn't care how much money it is wasting. They aren't interested in saving money because that means smaller government. That means less need for politicians, and lawyers, and judges. That means no more "slush funds" for congressional members to go to NFL football games or expensive vacations overseas. This is what a Godless society devolves into (and even worse) and some are more than happy for it to be happening...all in the name of tolerance, love, and peace (as long as you agree, of course). -Finrock

Of course the replacement for God will not be explicit. It will be subtle. However, when you look at what actually happens when you remove God from government and government begins to provide the necessities of life. The U.S. government has at its foundation the idea that we are endowed with inalienable rights from God. Our basics rights to life, liberty, and to own property are things we have because God gave those rights to us. The United States government does NOT give us any rights. Now, if this notion is reversed, the idea that we get our rights from God, and it is replaced with the notion that government provides rights, then is not the government our God then? They give and they take away. Further, if the government can provide food stamps, cash, healthcare, and other entitlements, what need do the people have for God? Their government gives them everything they need. If the government is divorced from any universal moral norms and essentially advocates promiscuity because "its all relative" then this results in the people being given permission from those in authority to act immorally without the guilt. The government advocates the Planned Parenthood agenda by providing public funds to it, allowing Planned Parenthood to continue to exist. It is a delusion to think that we can maintain social morality with the exclusion of God. What is even more important to understand is that our government of the United States is a form of government that relies on God. Otherwise our system doesn't work. So, there is a concerted effort by many in government and in the private sector to remove God from public discourse and from public thought. If they can successfully reduce everything down to some naturalistic law then they can control it. There is an effort to make the idea of there being a universal moral law that comes from God offensive. Even people who are religious and generally moral are being fooled. In many cases you have religious people who are helping to take God out of our government and replace it with an idol. -Finrock

Because your body is against God. Your body wants to control you and make the decisions for you. Even when your spirit has received an answer from God, your body is what will introduce doubt and anxiety in to your life. This is our condition and it is normal. What you need to learn is to trust in your spirit and in the Spirit of God. This is what faith is. You act on that impression that you have even though you can't see the end results. You don't know what will happen, but if God has answered you, then trust that and act in faith. Your body, your brain, will always try to dissuade you from doing spiritual things (the good and right things). It isn't easy and it takes effort, time, and patience, but we can overcome our body and allow our spirits to rule us. All things are done through faith and faith is us acting on the hope that we have of things we haven't yet seen or experienced. -Finrock

Good afternoon Lakumi. I hope you are having a fine day! :) In my experience, what you say isn't even the case anymore, if it ever was the case. If you are against gay marriage you are almost immediately labeled a homophobe, regardless of any other fact. If you just voice a preference for traditional marriage, without even explicitly calling gay marriage wrong, you are still attacked and labelled as a homophobe. The ironic thing is that most who subscribe to liberal social policies like gay unions, are constantly touting the word "tolerance" but in practice what they really mean is that you must agree with their moral standard, otherwise you are intolerant. There can never be a rational discussion about this because those who are against gay marriages are demonized and they are irrationally equated with people who want to do violence to gays. Its like so many things in this country. If you can slap a label on a person or a group of people, then you can demonize them and simply disregard their arguments becaus they are "wackos". It ridiculous how hypocritical the liberal left is on this issue. Sexual morality is being reshaped by people and organizations in order for them to spread there agenda and their atheistic philosophy. The idea is to destroy any notion of God from the general population and to replace God with government. Ultimately the father of all of these movements is the devil because they lead people away from the truth and from God. Planned parenthood has an agenda that has nothing to do with keeping teenagers safe or helping society. -Finrock

Good evening Anddenex. I hope you're feeling better. :) This is what Jesus taught: In another place Jesus teaches us: And in another place: And, through His prophet Monson, Jesus teaches: Rather than feel concerned or upset, you should rejoice! We should be happy when others repent and change their ways. When the Lord forgives us of our sins, He remembers them no more. The gospel of Jesus Christ is not about position. God can call us to a position because He wants us to learn a particular principle. I don't know, Anddenex, somehow your concern comes across as rather petty. I just don't see how allowing someone who broke the Sabbath in the past to be a GA creates discord or somehow damages your ability to teach your children. Its what the gospel of Jesus Christ is all about; man using the atonement to become better. -Finrock

Awesome. I served in Finland also. From 1996 - 1998. What years did you serve? Sorry for the diversion. :) -Finrock

Hi Kirkko. Welcome to the forums. It is helpful to realize that the thoughts that you have don't just come out of nowhere. The devil will tempt you to be offended. He wants to make sure you don't ever get past this because he can use this to destroy your marriage. Don't listen to those doubts and fears. It is hard to do but put your whole trust in God. He will never fail you! BTW, did you serve your mission in Finland? -Finrock

Good Afternoon Bini. I hope you're having a good day! :) Reading the scriptures is like learning a new language. When you first start you will feel very uncomfortable because you are not familiar with the language of scripture. Scripture reading and then understanding comes with practice. Also, the adversary is real and he will tempt you to not read or to feeling anxious when you are reading. But, if you recognize those uncomfortable feelings as coming from the adversary, then it can make it easier to press forward. If you pray and diligently read, you will soon find yourself excited and happy to read. Not only that, God will open your eyes and reveal things to you to help you. He can show you things in your mind and heart that will clarify doctrine and make clear things that are confusing. Just remember that it is a process and that it will be difficult. You will likely not feel good about doing these things in the beginning. The natural man wants to enjoy the temporal pleasures in life and will fight tooth-and-nail when you attempt to introduce spirituality in to your life. Last point. You can't expect to feel close to God and to have a love of the scriptures if you have not been doing these things consistently and diligently. As with most anything you will need to build yourself up over time. I know that the atonement of Jesus Christ is real. I am a witness of its power because I have experienced the power of the atonement in my life. It isn't theory for me. It is through the atonement that we are able to accomplish the things necessary in life. Rely on it and ask God to lift your burdens and to alleviate your concerns. -Finrock

Good Afternoon carlimac. I hope you are having a wonderful day today! :) I guess for me it comes down to this: Hypothetically speaking, we could have the sealing done in a sewer and it could be a most wonderful sealing. We don't need any worldly thing in order to have access to the Spirit. What is more sweet than the Spirit? If I am at a sealing and I am being edified by the Holy Ghost then I can't think of a more joyous or awesome thing for me to experience. The focus should be on spirituality. The things that you mentioned as being things that you think should be changed or allowed would not affect the spirituality of the ceremony one iota. It isn't about ambiance, it is about personal righteousness and personal knowledge of what the sealing actually is. It is NOT just a wedding. What we need in order to experience joy in any occasion is to keep God's commandments and to always be a receptacle for the Spirit. There simply is no substitute. -Finrock

In the past when I've read this scripture and others I have read it with the understanding that the Spirit being spoken about here is the Holy Ghost. But, this isn't the case. It is the Spirit of God. This makes a difference to how I understand this verse of scripture. What you describe is essentially what the chapter heading describes. However, there is a connection between spirit and mind. This scripture also speaks to how we are commanded to become one. Just as Christ is of one mind with the Father, we need to be one with them. The way that we do this is by putting aside the wisdom of man and conforming to the dictates of the Spirit. We must put aside the wisdom of ALL men. Even the testimony of a prophet is just a testimony of a man and if that is all we have, is faith in their words, then we are still believing in the wisdom of man. We must gain our own witness. God is no respector of persons and He wants us to get our answers from the source; from Him. This way our faith and knowledge about truth is not from man in any degree. We must gain an assurance that our life conforms with the mind and will of God. Anything less than what God says or anything more than what God says will not save us. No man can save us. Their testimony can't save us. Their knowledge and wisdom can't save us. We must become one with Christ and with God and this can be done now. It doesn't have to wait. We just need to believe. I'm one of the non-believers who lacks sufficient faith. -Finrock

I was reading from 1 Corinthians 2. Now this may be old news to all of you but for me when I read verse 11 I saw that there is an equivalency being made. The spirit of man is his mind. The Spirit of God is His Mind. This made me realize that God's Spirit, His mind, is not a separate personage. I guess I have neglected to realize that just as God's body is perfected and glorified and exalted, so is His Spirit. It is through His Spirit, His Mind, that God is all in all. It is how He is in all things and through all things. His Spirit, in effect, bursts from His body to fill all of existence. This made me realize how close God actually is. Not just in some nebulous way, but that His actual Mind fills all of existence. This is how God can be in all things yet have a distinct spatial existence. His body doesn't need to be extended. I'm kind of rambling but any thoughts? -Finrock

Question: Is their a difference between the Spirit of God and the Holy Ghost? -Finrock

Good Afternoon prisonchaplain. I hope you're doing well! :) I am certain that there are humble followers of Jesus Christ who are not members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In order to see how there can only be two churches it is helpful to recognize that God's church isn't limited to an institutionalized organization. The elect of God are to be found all over the earth. Nephi saw our day. In Chapter 33 he writes: Nephi is speaking to all of us. Notice in verse 9 how we should be reconciled unto Christ. That is ultimately the requirement. It isn't about the LDS institution. It is about being reconciled with Christ. You enter into the narrow gate through baptism and then you walk the strait path until the end. Nephi continues Nephi knew that in our day there would be those who would reject the Book of Mormon because they perceive it to be a product of Joseph Smith. However, what Nephi is trying to get across is that we should forget about Joseph Smith. Forget about Mormonism. Believe in Christ and be reconciled to Him. It requires humility in order for us to put aside our traditions and beliefs that have not been confirmed by the Holy Ghost. Nephi is inviting the humble followers of Christ to look past any prejudice and simply believe in Christ. Humble followers of Christ will recognize the words of their Master and they will rejoice in them rather than reject more of His words. But all of this requires us divorcing ourselves from our preconceptions and/or our traditions. What is more important than the institutional Church is that we be reconciled with Christ. If a person is a humble follower of Christ, in due time they will have the opportunity to receive all the saving ordinances through proper priesthood authority. -Finrock