Finrock

Here are some more quotes from Brigham Young: Now, one could construe this as racist, but I want to point out that Brigham Young said what he said about blacks because he believed that Cain was cursed and this was their condition on earth. However, clearly he did not think blacks were less human or not children of God. Another way to explain this is to look at how President Young viewed polygamy. He hated it. He didn't want to do it, however, because he believed it is what God wanted, he did it anyway. He actually believed that it was the providences of God that blacks were consigned to a role of servitude. Therefore, it wasn't Brigham Youngs position to question what he felt God had designed. His view of blacks wasn't because of hatred or dislike or because he thought blacks were less human. Some more from Brigham Young... In the first quote, President Young recognizes blacks as being children of God. In this quote, President Young states that none of God's children should be deprived of their freedoms. Finally... Again, stating that Brigham Young is a racist just doesn't do justice to President Young. In my opinion, President Young believed that blacks were cursed because of the sin of Cain. He didnt' believe they were cursed because they were bad people or not valiant in the spirit world. President Young accepted this doctrine but recognized that one day God would remove the curse and he had no personal problem with the curse being removed. Obviously there were notions and ideas that we disagree with today, but to President Young these ideas were doctrine. Compared to notions popular during that time in the United States, President Young's words were enlightened. Further, he never acted maliciously towards blacks. President Young always advocated kindness, love, empathy, and concern towards slaves. Regards, Finrock

Good Afternoon HiJolly. I hope you are doing well! :) Calling President Young a racist is not fair to President Young. It is also not fair to the documentary evidence. There are only a relatively few quotes (often taken out of context) from President Young which can be construed as outright racist (rather than a reflection of his sincerely held religious beliefs). Clearly President Young was a man of his time and had biases and prejudices, but to say that President Young is a racist, with the implication that he had some personal hate or dislike for black people, is wrong. Putting such a label on Brigham Young reflects a narrow view of a great prophet and man of God who was an example of Christlike love and charity towards all men and women. The documentary evidence overwhelmingly supports this charitable view of President Young. Regards, Finrock

Good afternoon budding. I hope you are having a fine day today! :) I can understand why his words are like daggers being pierced in to your heart. Whatever you do, don't allow his words to convince you that you are no good or worthless. I don't know you, but I know you are God's child and to Him you are invaluable and precious. He loves you beyond comprehension and His love is real and permanent. Sincerely, Finrock

Good afternoon KingintheNorth. I hope you are having a good day! :) Also, to add to what has already been said: The truth is that, like all scripture, Jacob 5 was writen by the spirit of prophecy and in order to understand it fully and properly, requires that it be understood through the spirit of prophecy. Or, in other words, it must be understood through the power of the Spirit in order to really understand its meaning. Regards, Finrock

You're welcome. I can see how that could be embarrassing. But, I commend you for suffering through that embarressment for the sake of being honest. That is a virtue. I know that in the past that I have been allowed to go to the temple even though I was struggling with some aspect of the temple recommend questions. I don't know your circumstances (and I don't mean to imply anything here either), but for me my feelings at the time were one of repentance and faith. Meaning, I was breaking commandments, but I did not have a crisis of faith in the sense that I was doubting the truth claims of the Church. In that situation the bishop and I agreed, provided I continue in repentance to change my life for good, that going to the temple will provide the spiritual power that would be helpful for me to overcome my sins. Respectfully, Finrock

Good afternoon ctrguy2013. Welcome to the forums. I hope you are doing good today! :) I understood it to mean that when one is sealed in the temple they make a covenant to God and to their spouse that they will stay with each other through good times and bad times. That means that a person can't just decide, unilaterally, that they have permission to break the covenant without first getting approval with God, who is a necessary, indispensable party to the covenant that has been made. Perhaps ElectofGod means something else. Regards, Finrock

Answer the questions sincerely and honestly (regardless of what your answer is) and let your bishop be your judge. He can help you and he has the keys to discern your situation and provide counsel. If your bishop says yes, it means you can go and you ought to. :) Regards, Finrock

Good afternoon Marriageinprogress. I hope you are doing well! :) If your bishop is recommending that you go, then no, do not wait. If you have a temple recommend and are worthy go, do not wait. Go as soon as you can, go often, and do it for the rest of your life. The temple will bring out the godliness in you. Regards, Finrock

Good morning skippy740. I hope you are doing well! :) Is this a response to my posts? If so, how does that relate? Regards, Finrock

This is a sincere question. Let say that during Jesus's earthly ministry a gay couple got married in Jerusalem, do you think that Jesus would congratulate their marriage? Regards, Finrock

Good morning Twisted_Fairytales. I hope you are doing well today! :) I don't know what "their" happiness means and I don't know that their happiness is so "obvious". To clarify, are you suggesting that happiness is relative? That people can be happy regardless of what they choose to do as long as its what they like and what they believe in? Regards, Finrock

If "wickedness never was happiness" and homosexual marriages are wickedness, then what happiness would we be congratulating? Alma 41:10 Regards, Finrock

Good morning California5719. I hope you are doing well! :) I believe that you should stay true to your covenants to your husband to be his wife even when times are tough or even when he is far less than perfect. If what you say is true about your husband, then your husband needs help. There is a way for you to completely negate your husband's domineering (provided he isn't physically abusive) by recognizing that your husband is severely spiritually wounded and rather than allow yourself to be affected by his scorn, have compassion on him. By having compassion upon your husband it will help for you to see that spiritually he is like a man drowning, except the man drowning doesn't know that he is drowning (or has chosen to ignore that he is drowning). You could hardly get upset that such a person is screaming at you when you know they are near death and all you want to do is help rescue them. Having compassion for your husband will also help you to see your husband's potential, rather than just the current reality that is causing you pain. Your husband is, after all, a precious son of Heavenly Father and God has wonderful plans and blessings in store for him and you, together. Do everything that you can do to help foster an atmosphere where the Spirit can be with you. As you become closer to Heavenly Father, your light will shine and this can be a powerful way to have the Spirit touch your husband's heart. Also, get priesthood blessings. Ask your husband to give you a blessing. EDIT: I just wanted to add that obviously the things I suggest are things that you can do to help but I don't mean to imply at all that the onus for him to change is on you. You do have a responsibility to help him through this spiritual crisis, but you cannot make his choices for him and you are not responsible for making him change. Therefore, I believe that is why you becoming closer to God or staying close to God, will be the most effective way that you can help your husband get closer to God. Regards, Finrock

Good afternoon StephenVH. I hope you have been well! :) The truth is that it doesn't matter...to you. He was wrong or he was not wrong. Whether either or is true, will you sincerely and with real intent consider the evidence in the post Jason_J provided? When Mormon's Codex comes out, will you seriously and sincerely considered the implications of Mormon's Codex? What if Joseph Smith was wrong about where the battles took place in the Book of Mormon? What does that mean? How does this establish whether the book is true? The Book of Mormon stands on its own merits. Meaning, look to the book itself to discover what it contains. Your argument isn't even your own. It is one that you are borrowing. Why not read the Book of Mormon, seriously study it's content, pray about it, and then examine the evidence with real intent and with sincerity. If nothing else you will be in a position to make your own arguments for or against the book. Then you can see whether what you think the book says matches with what the book actually says. You don't have to rely on false notions or prejudices. Respectfully, Finrock

Good morning Loudmouth_Mormon. I hope you are doing well today! :) I think that what you say boils down to this (and let me know if I am wrong). You oppose the idea of just tossing money to a beggar thoughtlessly and going on your merry way as if you have done some great good. I agree with you that simply tossing money is not the only way or the best way to make sure a petition from a beggar doesn't come up to you in vain. I agree that we can and in fact we ought be wise and charitable. I still don't think I am going to be held accountable for helping a beggar with money even if the beggar turns around and uses that money to buy evil things (unless of course I happen to know the beggar and it is clear that I am enabling them). I agree that I should be more thoughtful in my support. Meaning, I should provide real help if at all possible. If the beggar wants food, provide food. If the beggar needs a ride, provide a ride, etc. I also like the idea that ElectofGod is espousing which is the thought that giving money or of our substance may be more for us than it is for the beggar. We keep assuming the worst of the beggars, but perhaps the beggar is an angel testing us? You might think this is a foolish thought but it is no less a real possibility as any other. Regards, Finrock

Good morning Backroads. I hope you have been doing well! :) If I were to take issue with anything here it would not be with the fact that the woman wanted and even could have made her abode a temple. Indeed “only the home can compare with the temple in sacredness” (BD:Temples). Our homes should be sacred and holy places where the Spirit can reside unrestrained. It should be a refuge from the world for your family and others. If anything I can see where someone might feel that she is being a bit boastful or prideful and if this is a place of business it also comes off as maybe she is trying to use the story to boost profits. Then again, what do I know about this woman? Not a hill of beans. Regards, Finrock

This is how dense I am. I spent the first five minutes trying to understand how knowing this acronym has helped you to be cooler (as in body temperature cooler). Its hot and muggy here at home and I was ready to try some "CAPTCHA" if it was gonna help me be cooler. Regards, Finrock

Good afternoon Loudmouth_Mormon. I hope you are having a great day! :) I appreciate what you have written. And by that I mean that I recognize that what you say is an unfortunate reality in far too many instances. I do not want to be taken advantage of and I don't like the idea at all. However, I can't find a way to make Mosiah 4 and the reasoning you offer to harmonize: In verse 16 there is no equivocation: "Ye will succor those that stand in need...Ye will not suffer that the beggar putteth up his petition to you in vain..." My point is that I will never be condemned for doing what is right. This doesn't change just because another person decides to take advantage of my good works. EDIT: I wanted to make it explicitly clear that I am open to being taught a way to harmonize Mosiah 4:16-18 with the fact that beggars can and often do take advantage of people's good nature? Regards, Finrock

This article corroborates a lot of what has already been said but it also adds some more information. Clearly our notion of marriage today is different from what it was in the past. To persist in judging past relatives by a modern (often distorted) view of marriage is not sensible or fair. History of Marriage: 13 Suprising Facts Some highlights: "Marriage is a truly ancient institution that predates recorded history. But early marriage was seen as a strategic alliance between families, with the youngsters often having no say in the matter. In some cultures, parents even married one child to the spirit of a deceased child in order to strengthen familial bonds, Coontz said." "By about 250 years ago, the notion of love matches gained traction, Coontz said, meaning marriage was based on love and possibly sexual desire. But mutual attraction in marriage wasn't important until about a century ago. In fact, in Victorian England, many held that women didn't have strong sexual urges at all, Coontz said." Regards, Finrock

Several years ago soon after I had come home from my mission, my older brother and I were hanging out and we decided to go to the grocery store. So, we go to our local market and as we are getting out of our car, a woman comes up to us and says that she ran out of gas and wondered if we had any money to spare. I didn't have any money being a poor newly returned missionary without work, but my brother had five dollars on him and so he gave it to her. She thanked us and we went on our way. When we got to the front door of the market one of the employees of the store asked us if we had just given that lady five dollars. We said, "Yes". The employee then responded and said, "She has been here all day telling people she has been out of gas. You shouldn't have given her your money." Afterwards my brother and I talked about it and we both came to the conclusion that it didn't matter and we shouldn't feel ashamed at all for having helped her. It was not our place to judge this woman and what she did with our money. It was our place to either help or not. If there is condemnation, it will be on the woman if she was being dishonest. My brother and I could walk away feeling happy with ourselves. Regards, Finrock

You are changing the goal post now. Initially you asked for help in explaining this issue to your daughter. There has been provided multiple rational and perfectly good explanations that provide plenty of room for one's faith to grow. So what is your purpose now? Are you asserting a point, and if so will you please make this point explicitly clear? Do you feel that you have sufficiently refuted the explanations given and are therefore demanding we provide a better explanation? Are is it something altogether different? By the way, I hope you are doing well. Please excuse any errors as I am typing on tablet and that makes me lazy. Respectfully, Finrock

" 1. Israel, Israel, God is calling, Calling thee from lands of woe. Babylon the great is falling; God shall all her tow'rs o'erthrow. Come to Zion, come to Zion Ere his floods of anger flow. Come to Zion, come to Zion Ere his floods of anger flow. 2. Israel, Israel, God is speaking. Hear your great Deliv'rer's voice! Now a glorious morn is breaking For the people of his choice. Come to Zion, come to Zion, And within her walls rejoice. Come to Zion, come to Zion, And within her walls rejoice. 3. Israel, angels are descending From celestial worlds on high, And to man their pow'r extending, That the Saints may homeward fly. Come to Zion, come to Zion, For your coming Lord is nigh. Come to Zion, come to Zion, For your coming Lord is nigh. 4. Israel! Israel! Canst thou linger Still in error's gloomy ways? Mark how judgment's pointing finger Justifies no vain delays. Come to Zion, come to Zion! Zion's walls shall ring with praise. Come to Zion, come to Zion! Zion's walls shall ring with praise. Text: Richard Smyth, 1838-1914" Regards, Finrock

Good evening Klein_Helmer. I hope you are doing well! :) Any way that you look at it, at its core, the gospel is about the continuation of life. I don't know how many people, member or non-member alike, really appreciate this fact about the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can consider this from any perspective. From a purely naturalistic point-of-view our ultimate purpose as a species is to carry on the species. If we, as a species, do not procreate, then we die. There is only one principle upon which human life will continue and that is upon the principle of heterosexual sex. The greatest promise we have in our religion is that of a continuation of our seed forever. That means life perpetuated in to eternity. The continuation of life forever and ever. The gospel is about life and perpetuating it and having man reach his fullest potential; to be filled with light and life. There is no life without male and female. There is no life in homosexuality. It simply cannot exist. It is a relationship that will end in death. It is a dead end. That is why the Church will never change its stance on this issue. Regards, Finrock

I like what James12 posted about the importance of the body in this thread. The question is "Why do we need a body of flesh and bone?". I quote james12 below: Regards, Finrock

Respect :) Sincerely, Finrock