Connie

I  just started it. Best 700 pages for $18 and change! Loved this part in the intro:
 
 

I've read the book, although it was some time ago. I'll have to pull it off the shelf and browse through it again when I get a chance.
I don't remember many specifics other than I enjoyed it a great deal. Don't remember anything I disliked about it. 
I guess what I appreciated the most is that Bushman was able to bring out Joseph's humanity (including his weaknesses) without diminishing his role as a prophet of God. 

This thread is for discussion of the book Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling by Richard L. Bushman.
 
I am only about half-way through this excellent book. I am loving everything I am learning about Joseph Smith. I’m not really learning anything that I didn’t already know to a certain extent, but it goes into much more detail than what I’ve learned before. I love that it takes this man in his historical and cultural context. It is wonderful.
 
I thought this book needed it's own discussion thread. I've been pretty fascinated by some of the authors commentary on the Book of Mormon and church government, and it has generated some questions and thoughts that i would love to discuss. But i thought i'd just start out with this and see what sort of interest level there is in some discussion.
 
What did you love/hate about this book? Any favorite quotes? Do you think this book is good for testimony building... or not good? What did you think of it all?

I'm not superstitious. I'm more just regularly stitious.

There is nothing wrong with you per se. Obviously, I don’t know why you are not feeling anything, but it is completely normal. Probably everyone on this forum has had the experience of not being able to feel the Spirit. I know I have.
 
The older I get, the faster time seems to go. One month is very short. Please don’t give up.
 
“…that great morning of forgiveness may not come all at once. If at first you stumble, do not give up. Overcoming discouragement is part of the test. Do not give up. And as I have counseled before, once you have confessed and forsaken your sins, do not look back.”  -Pres. Boyd K. Packer (link: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2015/04/the-saviors-selfless-and-sacred-sacrifice?lang=eng)
 
Some links from current General Conference:
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2015/04/latter-day-saints-keep-on-trying?lang=eng
 
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2015/04/stay-by-the-tree?lang=eng

Hello, 4th Cousin! :)

I love family history! I regard the journals and accounts of my ancestors as sacred. My g-g-g-g grandfather is Joseph Knight Sr.
There is an account of one of my past relatives conversing with one of the three Nephites. Another of my great grandfather and his companion restoring sight to a child with a priesthood blessing.
There are also the humorous accounts. When my grandfather was in WWI he was an airplane mechanic. He would hook up a magneto to the control cables of the British planes and when they would check the control cables he would crank the magneto and shock the British. They would either get thrown back by the shock or they couldn't let go.
There are the sad accounts. When my g grandfather was on a mission, my g grandmother was left to take care of the homestead in NW Utah and four children under the age of 5 and a newborn. They were poor and times were very, very hard. She said that sometimes her only dinner was to scrape the bits of food left over from the kids plates into as cup. She would add water and make a soup. She did not like talking about those years.
Keep a journal! They are scripture!

That's awesome, Pam.  :)
 
I have a very rich pioneer heritage. Newel Knight is my 3rd great grandfather, and anyone familiar with church history probably is familiar with who he is.
 
I am also related to the Leavitts who helped settle southern Utah. You may or may not have stopped in Santa Clara where there is a monument to Sarah Sturdevant Leavitt. She is a 4th great grandmother of mine.
 
The Leavitts also helped settle Mesquite and Bunkerville, Nevada. There is a small Leavitt museum in Mesquite, and i'm probably related to nearly everyone buried in the Bunkerville cemetery. There are several monuments to my ancestors there.

It was much more than 2,500. After the first visit with approximately 2,500 people he showed himself again the next day.
 

I remember a friend telling me once that when she was depressed (it was an extended time), she couldn't feel the Spirit. One thing she did was "remember that I have a testimony."  She said that although she didn't feel the Spirit, she reminded herself that she had felt the Spirit and that she has a testimony.  I was always struck by that.  And then I went through a time that I couldn't feel the Spirit. I reflected on her words and then would spend time remembering past spiritual experiences to remind myself that I indeed felt the Spirit.  I felt so alone during that time, but I treated it as my valley, my journey to Zion, etc.  
 
Perhaps, you should spend time in your journal or other ways to remember those times you had spiritual experiences.  Ask your wife to share her testimony with you and share times she felt the Spirit to just remind you of when you did feel the Spirit.  And just endure....make this your Gethsame....vow to not give up and keep doing the right thing.
 
Good luck.

I don't have a blog, so when I want to share something you guys just get to deal with it :).  
 
 
 
 
A while back I wrote a post about how as I read through the Bible as a youth, I discover that it was hundreds of rated R pages of people messing up again and again.  Before this, the people in scripture kind of wore superman capes in my eyes (you know over-glossy-hero-idolizing).  But as I read the Bible, I discovered that even the greatest prophets made mistakes just like me.  And it is through the power of God everyone of us learns and grows, even through our mistakes.  The prophets and all lost their superman capes. 
 
This weekend I was reflecting back on that thought train and realized I was missing something.  Because I didn’t find just flawed human beings in the scriptures, also I found God.  Christ Himself came down and walked among us.  He showed us the way: teaching us through word and deed.  And through His sacrifice, He understands everything we could go through, and gave us a way to conquer it all: our mistakes, our trails, our flawed selves.
 
Christ: He’s the real Superman. 
 
This week is/was Easter, a time to think of Christ’s atonement and all it means.  Christ is the great physician: one whom heals the wounds so wonderfully that not even a scar remains.  Through Him we grow, we learn, we are healed.  Christ doesn’t just heal the mistakes in our lives, He heals the entirety of our lives- our flaws, our hopes, our loves.  He makes us complete: He makes us perfect like Him. 
 
Christ wants to share everything that He has, everything He is.  He wants us to share in His perfection.  In the scriptures, when a Lord wants to share everything with his heir, even a prodigal one, the Lord gives the heir his garment.  God wants to share everything with us- even his garment. 
 
Christ—He wants to share his Superman cape with me. 
 
Wow… I know this is just one little dorky analogy I came up with but…. Wow, how underserving I can be of His so perfect love.  Today, I write this standing all amazing, confused at the grace so freely He proffers me.  Trembling I cry at how much He did for me, confused at a love so deep I cannot comprehend.  Lord, how great art thou?
 

Do you remember what the Spirit feels like?  
 
I don't mean that in any rude way, but oftentimes when we've been away from something for a long time, we often to remember what that thing feels like when we do encounter it.  For example, someone who's been depressed and self-destructive for a long time may not realize it when someone else is showing them love.

There is nothing wrong with you per se. Obviously, I don’t know why you are not feeling anything, but it is completely normal. Probably everyone on this forum has had the experience of not being able to feel the Spirit. I know I have.
 
The older I get, the faster time seems to go. One month is very short. Please don’t give up.
 
“…that great morning of forgiveness may not come all at once. If at first you stumble, do not give up. Overcoming discouragement is part of the test. Do not give up. And as I have counseled before, once you have confessed and forsaken your sins, do not look back.”  -Pres. Boyd K. Packer (link: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2015/04/the-saviors-selfless-and-sacred-sacrifice?lang=eng)
 
Some links from current General Conference:
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2015/04/latter-day-saints-keep-on-trying?lang=eng
 
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2015/04/stay-by-the-tree?lang=eng

That's awesome, Pam.  :)
 
I have a very rich pioneer heritage. Newel Knight is my 3rd great grandfather, and anyone familiar with church history probably is familiar with who he is.
 
I am also related to the Leavitts who helped settle southern Utah. You may or may not have stopped in Santa Clara where there is a monument to Sarah Sturdevant Leavitt. She is a 4th great grandmother of mine.
 
The Leavitts also helped settle Mesquite and Bunkerville, Nevada. There is a small Leavitt museum in Mesquite, and i'm probably related to nearly everyone buried in the Bunkerville cemetery. There are several monuments to my ancestors there.

I just had to share this as I have been really excited about my discovery yesterday.
 
I've always been a bit jealous of those who can tell stories of ancestors who were Pioneers or had ancestors who were involved in the very early workings of the Church.
 
I knew that my mom's side of the family went pretty far back but it wasn't until yesterday that I discovered just how far back and how involved they were.
 
I've been in St. George for a couple of days doing nothing but going to Mormon historical sites and trying to learn more about some of the history of the church.
 
I went out to Mountain Meadows and along the way there was a turn off to go to Pine Valley.  I felt impressed to go out there.  In Pine Valley sits the oldest LDS church that is still in use.
 
So I started to do some reading and research of this area.  Low and behold, the name Isaac Riddle came up.  Now I come from a line of Riddles so I wondered if I was related.  Come to find out Isaac Riddle is my great great great uncle.  He discovered Pine Valley. He, Jacob Hamblin and others were sent by Brigham Young to So. Utah to start a settlement.  
 
Here are a couple of links regarding Isaac Riddle:
 
http://wchsutah.org/documents/platt/isaac-riddle-autobiography.pdf?hc_location=ufi
 
In this biography of himself, he mentions the day that Joseph and Hyrum Smith were killed.
 
http://www.stgeorgetemplevisitorscenter.info/pv/pvship.html
 
 
So interesting to know that I have ancestors that were very involved in the early settling of the church and were around during the time of Joseph Smith.
 
 

I've always found the scriptures in the Book of Mormon that talk about a group of people being spared because of the righteous or the "prayers of the righteous" (see Alma 10:22-23) very interesting. There's also the instance where the angel visits Alma the younger because of the prayers of his father and perhaps others (Mosiah 27:14). It's obvious that there is some very real power in prayer in these instances, but i don't know if one could argue that it altered God's plans.

Hello again. I thought this talk from the last General Conference of our church might be of interest to you, particularly if you do wind up moving to Utah. It was specifically given to non-members and answers the question, "Why are Latter-day Saints so eager to tell me about what they believe and to invite me to learn about their church?"
Here's the link:  https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2014/10/come-and-see?lang=eng

You must be right! I never realied that the problem is that I have no idea how to progress in the gospel. Man...all those talks on obedience...all the scriptures. They were full of it! I never knew! What a fool I've been.
 
 
We've been commanded to exercise faith. This is obedience.
 
 
We've been commanded to humble ourselves before the Lord. This is obedience.
 
 
We've been commanded to pray and ask for strength and other things. This is obedience.
 
 
We've been commanded to desire and plead for the Spirit. This is obedience.
 
 
The strict Jews in Christ's time were not obedient. If they were then why was Christ constantly telling them keep His commandments, do His will, etc.? Because they weren't doing His will...which means they weren't being obedient.
 
Partial obedience is not obedience. One can't pay their tithes and offerings but fail to visit the sick and needy and claim they are obedient. One can't do their home teaching but fail to love his/her neighbor and claim obedience. One cannot go to church but then come home and work and play all the rest of the Sabbath day and claim obedience. Being obedient is being fully obedient. It's not just conforming to the basic letter of the Mosaic law.

Southern Utah has had quite a lot of people moving in from Southern California over the past several years. Particularly St. George as the weather is closer to what they were used to in Cali.  St. George's elevation is just under 3000 feet above sea level, whereas Cedar City is just under 6000. So St. George is usually 10 degrees warmer than Cedar, and Cedar is usually about 10 degrees warmer than Northern Utah. And there are a lot of smaller towns around the area, too. So you wouldn't necessarily have to live in city.
 
For example, Veyo and Enterprise are both quite close to St. George but are very small towns. There is some really pretty area between those two little towns. That's were the Mountain Meadows area is. Even Hurricane isn't all that big, though it keeps growing. But if you go a ways beyond Hurricane, you hit places like Toquerville and La Verkin which are both very small and quite pretty. I always like driving through that area. Beaver is pretty small, but there are even smaller places like Greenville and Adamsville just to the west toward Minersville (which is tiny). That's some pretty area to drive through, too.
 
I'm not familiar with Torrey but it looks like it's in the middle of Utah. That is some pretty area, too. Sorry. I keep going on about how pretty it all is. You probably already know that.
 
Your job opportunities will be greatest in the St. George area. The farther north you go the sparser the population gets until you hit about Payson. Then it's wall to wall people clear until Ogden, in the opinion of this yokel.
 
We love Southern Utah. I have lived here nearly 20 years. Let me know if you have any more questions.

My sister believes that, too. It's a matter of not believing in priesthood authority, at least in her case. In her mind, God loves her so much that He would never keep her apart from her family.
 
I don't know if this is how your friend sees it. Perhaps he simply doesn't understand priesthood authority rather than not actually believing in it at all. In which case i would give him resources on learning about the priesthood.
 
One conference talk that comes to mind, if his thinking is anything like my sister's, is one from several years back called Love and Law by Elder Dallin H. Oaks.  Here's a link if your interested: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2009/10/love-and-law?lang=eng

My sister believes that, too. It's a matter of not believing in priesthood authority, at least in her case. In her mind, God loves her so much that He would never keep her apart from her family.
 
I don't know if this is how your friend sees it. Perhaps he simply doesn't understand priesthood authority rather than not actually believing in it at all. In which case i would give him resources on learning about the priesthood.
 
One conference talk that comes to mind, if his thinking is anything like my sister's, is one from several years back called Love and Law by Elder Dallin H. Oaks.  Here's a link if your interested: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2009/10/love-and-law?lang=eng

The only thing i can think of is maybe you just need to go to bed earlier.

Happy birthday, mirkwood.  I hope you have a great day. 

Bonus: Lachoneus and Lachoneus
 
Bonus 2: Anti-Nephi-Lehi and Anti-Nephi-Lehi
 
Nicely done, Connie!

Alma and Alma (Mosiah 27:8)
Helaman and Helaman (Helaman 2:2)
Pahoran and Pahoran (Helaman 1:2-3)
Mormon and Mormon (Mormon 1:5)
Laman and Laman (Mosiah 24:3)
Nephi and Nephi (3 Nephi 1:2)
 
How many men did Gideon eventually take to war against the Midianites?