mikbone

Yeah, McConkie put forth this idea pre-1978. I never liked that idea. Moses 5:24 seems to imply that Cain was a rotten apple (way worse than a fence sitter) during the pre-mortal existence, yet He still chose Jehovah's plan. Just from general observation of our fellow human beings, I have come to the conclusion that there must have been a wide spectrum of Nobel - lukeware - scumbags that chose to follow Jehovah.

D&C 29: 36 states that a thrid part of the hosts of heaven sided with Lucifer. This third part is not 33.3% but a third part. If so, then it begs the question. What are the 3 parts? While having a discussion with my lovely wife this evening. I came to the realization... Group A - Those spirits who chose to follow Jehovah Group B - Those spirits who chose to follow Lucifer Group C - Possibly this group of Elohim's spirit children were satisfied with their level of progression. They did not want to leave the nest and chose to stay as spirits forever in God's presence.

"The proper way for a man to pray," ****Said Deacon Lemuel Keyes, "And the only proper attitude ****Is down upon his knees." "No, I should say the way to pray," ****Said Rev. Doctor Wise, "Is standing straight with outstretched arms ****And rapt and upturned eyes." "Oh, no; no, no," said Elder Slow, ****"Such posture is too proud: A man should pray with eyes fast closed ****And head contritely bowed." "It seems to me his hands should be ****Austerely clasped in front. With both thumbs pointing toward the ground," ****Said Rev. Doctor Blunt. "Las' year I fell in Hodgkin's well ****Head first," said Cyrus Brown, "With both my heels a-stickin' up, ****My head a-pinting down; "An' I made a prayer right then an' there-- ****Best prayer I ever said, The prayingest prayer I ever prayed, ****A-standing on my head." ************************************Sam Walter Foss.

Revelations 12:11 and they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Alma 43 & 44 can be read allegorically to give insight to the war in heaven: Moroni = Michael the Archangel Zerahemnah = Lucifer Alma 43:45 Nevertheless, the Nephites were inspired by a better cause, for they were not fighting for monarchy nor power but they were fighting for their homes and their liberties, their wives and their children, and their all, yea, for their rites of worship and their church.

Sure. Avoid processed foods. Fresh fruits and vegetables are awesome. Eggs are great. Find foods you love and cook them yourself. Use a food diary. It is the best way to really understand what you are eating. I recommend Free Calorie Counter, Diet & Exercise Journal | MyFitnessPal.com. It is free, easy, intuitive, and fun. They have apps for the iPhone and android. I have found a simple heart rate monitor watch indispensable for tracking and motivating my workouts. Diets don't work. Lifestyle changes do.

The point is that meat can be found in abundance at the church schools, the MTC, and even in temple cafeterias. Although the WoW mentions to eat meat sparingly it has never been enforced. Adam ate meat. A part of the old testament practice of sacrifice included the priests consuming the meat of the animals. How many shepherds are mentioned in the scriptures? Shepherds tended livestock not only for milk but for the flesh of the animals... I have B.S. in nutrition science. The USDA stock of poultry, beef, and pork are very safe. I personally prefer grass fed and hormone / antibiotic free beef, free range chicken, and my bacon thick cut and peppered! I believe that the greatest threat to the health of Americans is corn. Go watch the documentary King Corn if you want a good scare. The vast majority of the corn we raise is actually indelible. It is caloric dense and nutritionally deficient (high fructose corn syrup...) Judging by the waistline of Americans, Mormons included, we would be better off if the WoW recommended that we eat calories sparingly, and worked out every once in a while... A vegan diet is devoid of vit B12. Vitamin B12 deficiency can potentially cause severe and irreversible damage, especially to the brain and nervous system.

Bar-b-que at my house on the 4th! You know at BYU campus you have a hard time finding a soda with caffeine as an ingredient. But you can get pork, beef, or chicken at any time of day...

The answer is in D&C 76: 44-48

I droped my eldest son off at BYU-Idaho a couple weeks ago and found a caffiene free diet mountain dew. I think it was the worst beverage I've ever had. And thats saying alot...

I've thought about it too. I wouldn't be suprised if there were multiple other locations where other groups of His spiritual children are progressing through their own pre-mortal existence... If so, does each one of those groups have their own war in heaven and "only begotton son" that applies to them or does Jehovah provide the atonement for all?

Moses 3:4-7 Makes it pretty difficult to deny a spiritual creation of man...

Informed Consent is a legal term. It is a concept invented by lawyers not medical doctors. Im sure that we were all informed about our risks, benefits and options of the decision to embark upon the plan of salvation. Anacephalic births that survive on life support must at least have a brain stem. They may not have a forebrain but they are getting some feedback. There has also been some commentary by past general authorities that such children may be able to be experience more of a mortal existence during the mellinnium.

I found a 1909 official document with the phrase. The Origin of Man - Ensign Feb. 2002 - ensign

I cannot find the phrase "only begotten son of God the Father in the flesh" anywhere in our scriptures. I see the phrase all the time in church manuals and talks. Anyone know who or when we (Mormons) started using the the phrase? John 3:16, D&C 93:11, 2 Nephi 25:12 & Moses 6:52 are scriptures that are used to support the phrase but none of the verses actually really do.

So sorry, I don't feel qualified to answer this question...

lol, how do you urinate?

As long as you teach out of the manual and don't add your own doctrine into the lessons... On the drive home from church I ask all my children what they learned during class. Sometimes I just shake my head and have to correct some false doctrines that have been dispensed during primary class.

I would apply the terms of firstborn and birthright, in this thread, to our relationship to God not our earthly parents. Just to avoid confusion. To me our birthright means that we are children of God. That we have the opportunity to obtain a human body, experience sin, learn, become resurrected and then (depending upon our worthiness and dedication) be assigned to a kingdom of Glory that we are worthy of receiving. Firstborn is a much greater tittle. I believe that those that become members of the Church of the Firstborn, will be those that receive all that the Father hath. D&C 93:20-22 D&C 76:52-55, 94-95 D&C 78:17-22 In my opinion, if you are not a member of the Church of the Firstborn, you don't get much of an inheritance...

I agree. To those who are inspired by the Holy Ghost, Gospel truth can be found anywhere. And the classification and defination of doctrine are not very important. But for those who are not inspired (such as the news media) it is important that they know that the LDS Church bases its truth on the scriptures, not on a BYU professor's take on history, or for that matter on a random posters comments in a lds discussion board... Furthermore, if we enter into a discussion on these forums and one poster uses a personal ancedote whereas another poster uses the scriptures to support their position. The scripture quote should be viewed as a more credible source...

Nah, see next to last paragraph. The issue is that your personal revelation applies to you (and perhaps your family). Not to me or anyone else.

Doctrine, from Latin doctrina, means "a body of teachings" or "instructions", taught principles or positions, as the body of teachings in a branch of knowledge or belief system. I have recently studied the concept of LDS doctrine and was happy to hear Brother Christofferson's talk during conference. LDS Church News - Elder D. Todd Christofferson: 'The doctrine of Christ' Recorded Video Newscasters are salivating at the possibility of an LDS member challenging our current President in the next US general presidential election. See the following two articles. This issue is probably going to come up again and again during the presidential election process... The Genesis of a church's stand on race - The Washington Post Church Statement Regarding 'Washington Post' Article on Race and the Church - LDS Newsroom The following documents have been making the rounds in other LDS discussion boards. Approaching Mormon Doctrine - LDS Newsroom Mormon Doctrine: What’s Official, And What Isn’t? FAIR - What is “Official” LDS Doctrine? Doctrine Tier 1 – The Bible (as far as translated correctly – AoF 8), The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, & The Pearl of Great Price. These scriptures were approved by the First Presidency, sustained by the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, and accepted by vote of the entire membership of the church None of the below items have been voted upon by the Church as a whole, and thus the items are not binding upon us a a people and a church. This of course does not infer that the below items are not true. But they do not technically make the hard definition of what is LDS Doctrine. Tier 2 – The Temple endowment narrative, Hymnal (D&C 25:11-12), Official Proclamations and Doctrinal Expositions signed and distributed by The First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of the Church. Tier 3 – Official Publications (Manuals, Handbook - LDS Church), Official talks and statements by General Authorities (General Conference Talks, Ensign First Presidency Message, etc.) Tier 4 – Official Policy (Priesthood denied to black men of African descent prior to 1978 Official Declaration - 2) Tier 5 – Books by General Authorities (Mormon Doctrine, Teachings of The Prophet Joseph Smith, etc.) Tier 6 – Books by LDS Scholars (Hugh Nibley, Cleon Skousen, BYU professors of religion, etc...) That being said, when the Holy Ghost personally manifests a truth to a person, that truth supercedes the tier system (for that person). Although the lower tier items should be in harmony with the higher tier items... Exceptions do come into play though, for example, 1 Ne 4:10-18. Isaiah 55: 8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

For me it was a hymn Sunday AM Session. http://media2.ldscdn.org/assets/general-conference/april-2012-general-conference/2012-04-4061-come-thou-fount-of-every-blessing-256k-eng.mp3?download=true I felt the spirit mightily. Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1. Come, Thou Fount of every blessing, Tune my heart to sing Thy grace; Streams of mercy, never ceasing, Call for songs of loudest praise. Teach me some melodious sonnet, Sung by flaming tongues above. Praise the mount! I’m fixed upon it, Mount of Thy redeeming love. 2. Here I raise my Ebenezer; Hither by Thy help I’ve come; And I hope, by Thy good pleasure, Safely to arrive at home. Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it, Prone to leave the God I love; Here's my heart, O take and seal it; Seal it for Thy courts above. 3. Jesus sought me when a stranger, Wandering from the fold of God; He, to rescue me from danger, Interposed His precious blood. Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it, Prone to leave the God I love; Here's my heart, O take and seal it; Seal it for Thy courts above. 4. O to grace how great a debtor Daily I'm constrained to be! Let Thy goodness, like a fetter, Bind my wandering heart to Thee: Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it, Prone to leave the God I love; Here's my heart, O take and seal it; Seal it for Thy courts above. Wish it was in the Hymnal.

April fools

Church Unveils "Slow-Track" Program SALT LAKE CITY In order to better meet the needs of "our most average members," church representative Howard S. Jeppeson announced the creation of a new slow-track membership program. "This program caters to those members of the church who may not be top-level celestial material but who are still willing to put in a nominal effort toward their own salvation," he said. The slow-track program includes the same components of normal church membership, but at a more relaxed pace. Members who sign on for the program are required to read scriptures and have personal and family prayer once a week, attend church once a month, visit teach or home teach four times a year, and watch one session of general conference every other year. If slow-track members can commit to these requirements for five years, they can earn a temple recommend stamped with an S for "slow track," after which they are expected to attend the temple semiannually. According to Jeppeson, the church may create a shorter, condensed version of the temple ceremony for S-track members "in order to better accommodate those members' shorter attention spans and lower levels of ambition." Social historian Jane Schippen, PhD, a long-time scholarly observer of Mormon society, hails the new slow-track program. "Mormonism pays a great deal of attention to its high achievers, like those who are stake president before they turn forty or women who have eight children and maintain a spotless house," she observed. Similarly, she continued, "Mormons spend a lot of time and energy worrying about those on the other end of the spectrum, the less-actives." She sees the slow-track program as "a way to acknowledge and honor the vast majority of Mormons, those who will never hold high positions of leadership but who are nevertheless active - the sloggers, if you will." Logan Stake president Gary L. Hackett agrees with Schippen and says that the new slow-track program "will prod the lazy ones into progressing at least a little bit, which is an improvement." He estimates that implementing the slow track will cut administrative tasks, such as nagging phone calls to complete home or visiting teaching, by as much as 75 percent. "It's about time we recognized that not everyone in the church is that top ten percent of the celestial kingdom material," he notes. "And, really, that's okay. I mean the bottom two levels of the celestial kingdom are supposed to be pretty good too, right?" Most members seem happy with the soon-to-be-implemented system. "Let's face it," says local member Larry K. Whiting. "I'm not cut out for this high-paced, pressure-oriented Mormon lifestyle. I mean, home teaching four families every month? The scheduling alone takes way too much time. And then I have to go over there and pretend I care about these people when I'd rather be home watching ESPN? Give me the slow-track program any day." Local member Kendra Koenig agrees. "Do you know how much fun it is trying to roust five kids out of bed for family scripture study and prayer at 6:30 AM? I am sick to death of nagging them about it, and you can believe it's not doing our family harmony any good." She praised the slow-track system for offering a more realistic temple-attendance schedule. "Like anyone who has a life can manage to get out there twice a month? This slow-track program is the answer to my infrequent prayers."

It wasn't this bad was it?