mikbone

The plan of salvation requires a community or more specifically, a family. God needs and wants a very large family. Yes scientific and spiritual progress. The original premise for the toaster project comes from a book, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. In the book the protagonist has his 20th century knowledge and is sent to a society that exists in the bronze age. At first he figures that within a week he will be the king of society. But eventually he recognizes that in and of himself he cant do jack. All his suposed 20th century knowledge was totally worthless. There were no computers, and he certainly couldn't make one. No phone. He cant make penacillin. He gets hungry and realizes that he can barely make a sandwich but couldn't make a toaster if his life depended on it. God made his children and the universe for a purpose. He could have made enough space to enclose our sun and solar system, but He didn't. There is alot of space out there for the using. Without children Moses 1:39 becomes null and void.

You did good. I had 1/2 a Mike's Hard Lemonade while on a skiing trip to vail CA. I found it in a display with the rest of the cokes so I assumed... I though it was a particularily good Lemonade till my friends started looking at me oddly. "We thought that you did't drink..." Woops. I gave the rest of the drink to someone at the table and got a Mt. Dew.

Yeah, thats what I'm saying. The Gospel requires a community. God requires a community.

Nope, its an example of why God wants us to be industrious and productive. I believe that He wants us to contribute.

Well, One man by himself is essentially worthless. We take for granted all the wonderful things that we have in this world that were provided for us from the labors of others and the discoveries of generations before us. This guy tried to make a toaster from scratch and after 9 months of research, work and cheating... He got the element to heat for 5 seconds before it broke. I bet that God made us because he enjoys working with us and looks foreword to the things that we can do to contribute to the Celestial society.

Thomas Thwaites: How I built a toaster -- from scratch | Video on TED.com I loved this video. Its an excellent example as to how totally worthless we are as individuals. This kind of example helps to explain why God continues to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

Best scripture for this thread Moses 3:15 And I, the Lord God, took the man, and put him into the Garden of Eden, to dress it, and to keep it. As far as I know that command is still in effect. Hunting - Moses 4:27. It is my belief that God took Adam hunting, showed him how to clean the animal, how to perform the ordinance of sacrifice (Moses 5:6) and then how to make their own clothes.

2nd hit on Google Plan of salvation/Sons of Perdition/Can women be "Sons of Perdition" - FAIRMormon

LDS.org - Melchizedek Priesthood Chapter Detail - Performing Priesthood Ordinances He can't lay his hands on the baby, but there is no reason he cannot hold the baby. You can always wait and bless the baby after he gets the melchezidek priesthood.

Thanks for the heads up. Ill be sure to watch it tonight.

While preparing for my elders quorum lesson a couple weeks ago I made a realization about the millennium that I had not appreciated previously. 2 Peter 3:10-12 (New heaven, elements shall melt, earth will be burned up) D&C 133:23-26 (The oceans will be driven into the North countries, the Islands shall become one land, The land of Zion & the land of Jerusalem will be turned back to their own place, as it was prior to their division) According to the above scripture HUGE changes will be put into place during the Lords coming in preperation for the millennium. The Earth will return to a Pangaea like state. The elements will melt. The Earth will burn. Im my opinion if this is to occur, then the face of the Earth will be totally changed. Essentially there will be no evidence that mankind had ever lived in a telestial state after the first generation dies at the age of 72. The world will be a new clean slate. No skyscrapers, no temples, no computers, no nothing! I am sure that there will be records that are preserved by the lord that will be allowed back on the Earth but other than those records everything else will be lost. If the second coming occurs in 5 years, the house and land that I own will no longer be mine because its location and apearance will have changed and there will be no record to prove that I owned it... The Earth will be in a paradisiacal state, or terrestrial, or like it was in Eden. (Article of Faith 10) Satan's influence will be gone. There shall be no sorrow. A man will grow to the age of a tree and then be twinkled. In that day whatever a man will ask it will be given him. (D&C 101: 27-31) The 2/3 sealed portion of the BoM will arrive. As well as the record from the lost ten tribes.

Just tell him. He sounds like a great guy. If you are doing what is right and he already recognizes the changes in you, the hard part is already over. You don't have to scare him or give him any ultimatum. Just say it matter of factly. Something like, "I had a dream the other night that was spiritual, and it had an effect on me. I'd like to do some more research about the church if it is ok with you?" I wouldn't mention missionaries, or home teachers or Bishop yet... Ask if its ok to read the Book of Mormon, Bible, or Ensign in the house. Too bad general conference is over. It is the best way to introduce someone to the LDS church in my opinion. Unfortunately the missionaries coming over to the house can sometimes be overwhelming. And if you are already baptised you don't need to go through the discussions anyway. Listening to the mormon channel or Your LDS Radio - Hymns on streaming audio is also an easy way to have the gospel in the house in a very non-threatening way. The most important thing you can do by far is show him that the gospel makes you happy and brings joy to your family. Dosen't matter how long it takes. Say your prayers, do what is right, honor your husband and let him know that your respect him. Do your part, and the the Lord will pick up the slack. Good luck. We are rooting for you. Keep us posted.

True, but if push came to shove, I would probably follow the prophet. Joseph Smith/Martyrdom/Joseph fired a gun - FAIRMormon

True, but it wouldn't make for a good post-apocalyptic fiction plot. Disabling electricity and gunpowder would throw our society back into the bronze age. No iphone, no playstation or DirecTV, can you imagine the horrors?! The author of the novel, S. M. Stirling, who I don't believe is LDS. Made a point of commenting about our food storage program. If society started to get ugly because of a natural global catastrophe, world war, or some other event. How much upheaval would it take to completely disable our ability to fill up unleaded at the local quickie mart? Look at what happened in New Orleans during Katrina. If that was the case, firearms (and the knowledge of how to use them) would be an essential part of maintaining your food storage.

Authorized King James Version - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Good point. One might say that firearms are an essential part of food storage. That way you could provide for your family by hunting. And of course self defense. But if you read the recently popular fiction book Dies the Fire and the laws of physics change after a world wide event such that electricity and gunpowder stop working we are really hosed.

Perhaps this is what I was recalling... This Is My Name Forever Anyway, what I was trying to get at was that Moses probably had a similar revelation as the Brother of Jared. That Moses was introduced to Jehovah as not only the God of Abraham, but also as the Father's chosen to carry out the plan of salvation. That Moses was allowed within the veil to recognize Jehovah as the own who was like unto God (Abr 3:24) during the pre-mortal existence. And that Moses was also allowed the knowledge that Jehovah would eventualy become the mortal savior. The knowledge of who Jehovah was, who he is, and what His future roles in the plan of salvation were to be; are way more important then knowing his name.

An infinite amount of eternal families Everyone in our pre-mortal existance were spiritual siblings. But with each successive connection the relationship must get stronger... Those who sided with Jehovah instead of Lucifer. No doubt we had closer relations with some spirits moreso than others prior to Earth life. We have significant attachment with the family/friends we have made here on Earth. The Sealing ordinance must be one heck of a bond. No doubt the bond of Husband and Wife is greatest though. I assume that it will be much like it is here on Earth. For those that make it to the highest lvl of the Celestial Kingdom I believe we will all hang out for a long period of time and continue to learn and progress. Eventually husbands and wives will want to continue to progress by leaving the nest and creating their own spiritual families. Perhaps when a celestial sealed couple wishes to start creating their own spiritual children they have to leave the nest and go to a distant part of the universe and create their own galaxy or equivalent... I would assume that the relationships of spiritual parents and spiritual children will trump all other relationships other than that of sealed spouses. Although a person's relationship to thier savior must be somewhat special...

Excepting of course, the temple...

OK, thanks. I never was a very good student of language and tenses. Can you give me a example of what it should be in english? Or is (I am that I am) the only translation? Nother question. John 8 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. I recall that the KJV of the NT is an English translation of a Greek tranlastion of the Hebrew. So is Jesus saying that prior to Abraham He was continuously present??

JST, Revelation 1:8 For he saith, I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.

I love this line. I was wondering if someone like volgadon could give us a true interpretation of the declaration. I was under the impression that the hebrew text was written in the past present and future tense so it really should read something like: I WAS, I AM, I WILL BE. Today I was making a comparison between Moses and the Brother of Jared. And I was pretty impressed by the similarities. Both Moses and Mahonri were chosen as reluctant leaders of their people. Both Moses and Mahonri had to climb a mountain to see the Lord. Both Prophets saw the hand of the Lord while He touched stones in their presence. Both Prophets were given stones to take back with them as evidence of their divine manifestation. They were both given Urim and Thummin. Mahonri received the 16 stones to illuminate and guide the barges whereas Moses received the 10 commandments to guide Israel. I also believe that both Prophets had their calling and election made sure. If you can come up with any other comparisons let me know. There is evidence easily missed within Ether that explains how in depth the manifestation was that the Brother of Jared obtained. And now that I compare the statement “I AM THAT I AM” that Moses received with Mahonri's revelation. I am impressed that Moses had a much more detailed experience than what we have detailed in Genesis. The following is my interpretation of why the Brother of Jared's visitation as found in Ether 3 was so radically different than any prior revelation that man had received from God... Isn't it wonderful that the Lord does not solve our problems for us? Here Jehovah returned the responsibility of conceiving the means to illuminate the ships back upon Mahonri. The brother of Jared was inspired to molten sixteen stones, with the idea that Jehovah could enhance them such that they would produce light. This procedure of collecting the raw materials, producing a fire hot enough to melt stone, and pouring the molten material into pre-fashioned molds most definitely took much skill, time, and effort. I imagine that during this process Mahonri pondered on how he would ask the Lord to endow the stones. Mahonri has just hiked up mount Shelem (interpreted as exceedingly high) hand carrying the carefully crafted stones. I assume that when he arrived at the summit, Mahonri took some time to clean up physically, rest his body, meditate, and to arrange everything just so. Finally, I picture him stepping back a few feet from the stones in satisfaction, and kneel down in preparation to invoke our Lord in prayer. In his supplication to the Lord, Mahonri not only asked for the stones to shine, he asked that the Lord touch the stones. One must question Mahonri's state of mind, and motivation behind this request. Did he ask the Lord to touch the stones only as an offhand remark, or did he actually desire that the Lord touch the stones? Did he think, believe, or actually have the faith that he could see the Lord's finger? Did Mahonri think that the Lord had a finger and thus a body? Did he want to see the Lord's finger? Mahonri's prayers are answered! He intently watched in awe as the stones illuminated in succession. Then he realized that he was also witnessing the finger of God and he began to study it. He saw the digit of our Savior and noticed what it was composed of: bones, muscles, ligaments, skin, hair, and nail. This procedure of touching the sixteen stones probably transpired within fifteen to thirty seconds giving Mahonri sufficient time to study what he was observing. Then suddenly during this manifestation Mahonri became so overcome with fear that he lost the ability to control his muscles, and fell prostrate before the Lord. But why??? Was he afraid because he did not think that the Lord would do what he asked (see Ether 12:20)? Or was Mahonri afraid because he saw something that he did not anticipate? Jehovah must have perceived the thoughts of Mahonri. Yet he asked a pointed question. I believe to assist Mahonri in coming to a radical albeit incorrect conclusion. Mahonri said that he was afraid that the Lord would smite him. So, the obvious question arises. Why did Mahonri think that the Lord would smite him??? Mahonri had obeyed the Lord's instructions. He invoked the Lord in sincere prayer, and his prayer was answered exactly as he had worded it. Did Mahonri fear because he thought he was audaciously seeing something that he was not worthy to see? Possibly, but I think not. Remember, Mahonri had asked specifically that the Lord touch the stones. He had the faith necessary to see the Lord, and had previously received at least two direct revelations from the Lord. In the previous chapter Mahonri had conversed with the Lord for the space of three hours! Was Mahonri afraid because he did not know that the Lord had the form of a body? I think not, he knew that Jehovah was a man and not some amorphous presence. Mahonri had access to the prophet's testimonies via scripture, thus he knew that man was created in the image of God. The Brother of Jared also knew that many prophets had seen God face to face. Adam & Eve, Genesis 1:26-27 The first eight patriarch, all of whom were high priests, D&C 107:53-55 Noah, Genesis 6:9 The answer to the question as to why Mahonri thought that the Lord would smite him is very simply stated within the same verse in which the question arises, but many scriptural scholars have seemed to gloss over this essential concept. Mahonri states that he did not know that the Lord had a body of flesh and blood. Mahonri did not say flesh and bones, he used the word blood, and blood declares mortality. Thus Mahonri was saying, "I did not know you were mortal!" So, why did Mahonri think that his physical well-being was in jeopardy just by assuming that Jehovah was mortal? I believe that while Mahonri looked at Jehovah, he earnestly thought that he saw a body of flesh and blood. His thoughts were racing, for Mahonri had been previously taught that Jehovah was immortal and could not die. He then began to consider the implications of Jehovah's mortality, and concluded that if Jehovah is mortal, he must be subject to injury and possibly even death! Mahonri assumed that since this knowledge had never before been released, the Lord had reason to conceal that he was composed of the same weak material as the rest of mankind. I think that Mahonri thought that Jehovah would smite him - to keep him from revealing to humanity that God was in reality a frail mortal. Jehovah alleviates Mahonri's fears, and praises his faith. At this point our Savior does not correct Mahonri's false assumption. Jehovah knew Mahonri Moriancumer's thoughts and used them to impress a significant truth upon his soul. Jehovah explained that in time he would become mortal (thus as Mahonri had concluded, Jehovah would be subject to injury and indeed even death). I assume that this information struck Mahonri heavily. Jehovah then told Mahonri that no man had previously come to him with such great faith, and that he was able to see the finger because Mahonri strongly desired and truly believed that he would see the finger. Then our Lord asked a leading question and Mahonri was more than happy to answer the question and issue the follow-up request. Mahonri here requests to see the Lord in his entirety. Mahonri bears his testimony of God to God. The Lord here grants Mahonri Moriancumer's calling and election. Jehovah told Mahonri that because he knew these things, he was redeemed from the fall. Mahonri now understood that Jehovah, his God and the God of his ancestors, was to become a mortal man capable of death for some very important reason. Jehovah then thoroughly showed himself to Mahonri. What Jehovah was showing Mahonri was not tangible. The physical state of Jehovah was trivial at this point. What Mahonri was shown was so much more significant. When a person receives his calling and election he is brought back into the Lord's presence; or as revealed to Joseph Smith, the veil is rent (D&C 67:10). This veil is the veil of forgetfulness that we each pass through as we are born as an infant to our mortal parents. Thus Mahonri was re-endowed with his pre-existent memories and for the first time he recognized the Lord. He had full knowledge and recollection that our God Jehovah was the pre-existent soul who had said, “Here am I, send me. Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.” (Abraham 3:27, Moses 4:2). Mahonri recognized the Lord to be an old friend, yea, even his elder brother. At this point the celestial manifestation ceased to be a test and passed into a family reunion type event. How Mahonri’s heart must have jumped with joy to recognize the true identity of our Lord. Jehovah concludes the teaching point and reveals to Mahonri that He will become mortal and that during his future mortal life He (God) will be known as Jesus Christ and at that time will be sacrificed for the sins of the world. The Brother of Jared must have performed animal sacrifice during his life thus he must have made the connection that animal sacrifice was symbolic for the event that would eventually occur to Jesus Christ. Mahonri was for the first time learning about the true Gospel. That through the horrible Atonement mankind would have the potential to overcome death and inherit eternal life. Yea, even become a son of God. Jehovah had just fully revealed himself unto the Brother of Jared. He was essentially saying. This is WHO I WAS, WHO I AM, and WHO I WILL BE! What an awesome experience... I AM THAT I AM! Finally, it is here where Jehovah tells Mahonri that what he is seeing is not a body of flesh and bone, but a body of spirit.

In a sense yes. We can't become the father of Jesus Christ. But consider this... I am sure that Abraham is going to be a member of the Celestial Kingdom (D&C 132.:29). If Abraham eventually creates spiritual children. He will probably have those spirit children enter into their own plan of salvation. He will have to create a world for them and provide a savior for them. Perhaps his firstborn in the spirit will become a savior for his spirit children like Jehovah did for Elohim. It this does occur, then Abraham will be the father of a Messiah, or a Christ. Granted not our Jesus Christ but still a savior...

D&C 45:26 When Shall These Things Be? - Ensign Dec. 1996 - ensign

I don't know you Beast but I have been exactly where you are. Let me share my testimony with you. It ain't the normal sort. I have never heard an audible voice in my head. But I have been blessed with a keen sense of the Light of Christ. I know right from wrong and I can smell BS a mile away. During my 2nd year of undergrad study, I had a prolonged evening when I wrestled with the Lord in prayer. I wanted a manifestation or at least a voice to let me know that a mission was the right thing to do. No answer came. In despair I finally asked that He give me an answer via the scriptures. I opened the quad to Section 67 and read 10-13. In fury I threw the quad against the wall of my dorm. I then dared Him to do it again. I re-opened the quad and immediately found Ether 12:6. It was my answer. It wasn't what I was looking for, but it was my answer, and I knew it down to my core. I spent 2 years in Southern Chile learning humility. Apparently the trial of my faith is still ongoing... It is now 25 years later. I have yet to have any manifestation but I am hopeful. The Book of Mormon is true and I love the Prophet Joseph Smith. I spent time as a Branch President of a small branch in Chile thus I know how hard it is to be a spiritual leader for others. I felt that I was horrible. I made callings and decisions without any spiritual guidance despite my prayers and desires. I consequently have had reservations when my local leaders have decided to give me callings via the divine revelations that they have personally received in my behalf... I know that the vast majority of time the Church is run without divine intervention. Do we need to constantly have divine intervention? Obviously not. I recently read Waiting for World's End: The Diaries of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker. It is obvious that While Brother Woodruff was president of the Church, He felt that he was sailing the ship solo at times... We have not received much revelation since Joseph Smith's departure. Do we need more? Apparently not. It was enough. Although the occasional Beware of Pride - Ensign May 1989 - ensign is obviously inspired. As well as conference talks like Safety for the Soul - general-conference I sit in Sacrament Meeting partake of the ordinance and most of the time try to keep watch of my kids while enduring the talks. Unfortunately most of the talks and testimonies feel uninspired to me but hey, every once in a while you get lucky. Its probably because Im not in-tune with the spirit... I pay my tithing, teach in Elder's quorum once a month, but rarely do my home teaching... But I read my scriptures and have studied Joseph Smith's words quite extensively. I teach my children the gospel. And do my best to live up to Temple Covenants. At my current pace I will probably never get the manifestation that I so desired while in my dorm room, but then on the other hand I fear the trial that I know must precede its arrival. As for Brigham Young's Adam God theory. I think that He was confused about some of the private teachings that Joseph Smith shared with him. He probably should not have shared the theory in a public setting and obviously didn't end the speech with "Thus Saith the Lord". I think that there are some things in the talk that are interesting and I wish that we had Joseph Smith's original thoughts but unfortunately we don't. As for the issue with the priesthood and Black African descent. I'm pretty sure that Joseph Smith did not set that in motion.