mikbone

Doctrine, from Latin doctrina, means "a body of teachings" or "instructions", taught principles or positions, as the body of teachings in a branch of knowledge or belief system. I have recently studied the concept of LDS doctrine and was happy to hear Brother Christofferson's talk during conference. LDS Church News - Elder D. Todd Christofferson: 'The doctrine of Christ' Recorded Video Newscasters are salivating at the possibility of an LDS member challenging our current President in the next US general presidential election. See the following two articles. This issue is probably going to come up again and again during the presidential election process... The Genesis of a church's stand on race - The Washington Post Church Statement Regarding 'Washington Post' Article on Race and the Church - LDS Newsroom The following documents have been making the rounds in other LDS discussion boards. Approaching Mormon Doctrine - LDS Newsroom Mormon Doctrine: What’s Official, And What Isn’t? FAIR - What is “Official” LDS Doctrine? Doctrine Tier 1 – The Bible (as far as translated correctly – AoF 8), The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, & The Pearl of Great Price. These scriptures were approved by the First Presidency, sustained by the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, and accepted by vote of the entire membership of the church None of the below items have been voted upon by the Church as a whole, and thus the items are not binding upon us a a people and a church. This of course does not infer that the below items are not true. But they do not technically make the hard definition of what is LDS Doctrine. Tier 2 – The Temple endowment narrative, Hymnal (D&C 25:11-12), Official Proclamations and Doctrinal Expositions signed and distributed by The First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of the Church. Tier 3 – Official Publications (Manuals, Handbook - LDS Church), Official talks and statements by General Authorities (General Conference Talks, Ensign First Presidency Message, etc.) Tier 4 – Official Policy (Priesthood denied to black men of African descent prior to 1978 Official Declaration - 2) Tier 5 – Books by General Authorities (Mormon Doctrine, Teachings of The Prophet Joseph Smith, etc.) Tier 6 – Books by LDS Scholars (Hugh Nibley, Cleon Skousen, BYU professors of religion, etc...) That being said, when the Holy Ghost personally manifests a truth to a person, that truth supercedes the tier system (for that person). Although the lower tier items should be in harmony with the higher tier items... Exceptions do come into play though, for example, 1 Ne 4:10-18. Isaiah 55: 8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

For me it was a hymn Sunday AM Session. http://media2.ldscdn.org/assets/general-conference/april-2012-general-conference/2012-04-4061-come-thou-fount-of-every-blessing-256k-eng.mp3?download=true I felt the spirit mightily. Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1. Come, Thou Fount of every blessing, Tune my heart to sing Thy grace; Streams of mercy, never ceasing, Call for songs of loudest praise. Teach me some melodious sonnet, Sung by flaming tongues above. Praise the mount! I’m fixed upon it, Mount of Thy redeeming love. 2. Here I raise my Ebenezer; Hither by Thy help I’ve come; And I hope, by Thy good pleasure, Safely to arrive at home. Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it, Prone to leave the God I love; Here's my heart, O take and seal it; Seal it for Thy courts above. 3. Jesus sought me when a stranger, Wandering from the fold of God; He, to rescue me from danger, Interposed His precious blood. Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it, Prone to leave the God I love; Here's my heart, O take and seal it; Seal it for Thy courts above. 4. O to grace how great a debtor Daily I'm constrained to be! Let Thy goodness, like a fetter, Bind my wandering heart to Thee: Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it, Prone to leave the God I love; Here's my heart, O take and seal it; Seal it for Thy courts above. Wish it was in the Hymnal.

April fools

Church Unveils "Slow-Track" Program SALT LAKE CITY In order to better meet the needs of "our most average members," church representative Howard S. Jeppeson announced the creation of a new slow-track membership program. "This program caters to those members of the church who may not be top-level celestial material but who are still willing to put in a nominal effort toward their own salvation," he said. The slow-track program includes the same components of normal church membership, but at a more relaxed pace. Members who sign on for the program are required to read scriptures and have personal and family prayer once a week, attend church once a month, visit teach or home teach four times a year, and watch one session of general conference every other year. If slow-track members can commit to these requirements for five years, they can earn a temple recommend stamped with an S for "slow track," after which they are expected to attend the temple semiannually. According to Jeppeson, the church may create a shorter, condensed version of the temple ceremony for S-track members "in order to better accommodate those members' shorter attention spans and lower levels of ambition." Social historian Jane Schippen, PhD, a long-time scholarly observer of Mormon society, hails the new slow-track program. "Mormonism pays a great deal of attention to its high achievers, like those who are stake president before they turn forty or women who have eight children and maintain a spotless house," she observed. Similarly, she continued, "Mormons spend a lot of time and energy worrying about those on the other end of the spectrum, the less-actives." She sees the slow-track program as "a way to acknowledge and honor the vast majority of Mormons, those who will never hold high positions of leadership but who are nevertheless active - the sloggers, if you will." Logan Stake president Gary L. Hackett agrees with Schippen and says that the new slow-track program "will prod the lazy ones into progressing at least a little bit, which is an improvement." He estimates that implementing the slow track will cut administrative tasks, such as nagging phone calls to complete home or visiting teaching, by as much as 75 percent. "It's about time we recognized that not everyone in the church is that top ten percent of the celestial kingdom material," he notes. "And, really, that's okay. I mean the bottom two levels of the celestial kingdom are supposed to be pretty good too, right?" Most members seem happy with the soon-to-be-implemented system. "Let's face it," says local member Larry K. Whiting. "I'm not cut out for this high-paced, pressure-oriented Mormon lifestyle. I mean, home teaching four families every month? The scheduling alone takes way too much time. And then I have to go over there and pretend I care about these people when I'd rather be home watching ESPN? Give me the slow-track program any day." Local member Kendra Koenig agrees. "Do you know how much fun it is trying to roust five kids out of bed for family scripture study and prayer at 6:30 AM? I am sick to death of nagging them about it, and you can believe it's not doing our family harmony any good." She praised the slow-track system for offering a more realistic temple-attendance schedule. "Like anyone who has a life can manage to get out there twice a month? This slow-track program is the answer to my infrequent prayers."

It wasn't this bad was it?

When I get mentally worn out I do one of two things. Go for a run. or Pull out the telescope and check out the night sky. It helps your focus on the small stuff.

Actually I wrote that I am 99.99% convinced of the MMP concept. Which is a much different statement that what you posted. But that is neither here nor there. The issue at question is the Adam-God Theory. It is such a confusing line of thought. For it to make any sense at all, one must assume that Brigham Young was using terms and names incorrectly or that He was purposely trying to conceal his idea within a riddle. Anyway if we are going to delve into the depths of the AGT we should start a new thread...

I agree. And I personally love the idea of MMP. I think that Brigham Young as well as Eliza Snow were privy to a personal discussion with Joseph Smith Jr. wherein he expounded on some of the concepts of MMP. Brigham Young seems to have some of the concepts mixed up in his mind, or He just awkwardly related the concepts in the JD 1:50 discourse. Hard to say for sure. I'm like 99.99% convinced of the MMP concept. But I realize that if this idea was clearly explained to the majority of LDS, many members would balk at the concepts and responsibilities that the ideas require of us. Not to mention the firestorm that would be unleashed upon us by our enemies...

nope

Ok lets have a civil discussion about past prophets being led by the spirit on any other controversial topic (perhaps Brigham Young's Adam-God Theory). This specific topic for obvious reasons, should not be discussed in the manner you suggest.

I like where you are going with this. And yes it would make a great discussion. What I was implying is that OD-2 is technically LDS Doctrine. And that since the time of Joseph Smith there have been very limited new revelations that become Doctrine. The priesthood ban was never LDS Doctrine. It was policy. I am unsure about how it was instagated. My current position is that that policy was uninspired. Or perhaps equally as inspired as Brigham Young's Adam-God Theory.

Holland's counsel speaks for itself. How can you personally claim that there was a 'very good chance that the policy was divinely approved'? Were you there? Have you personally requested revelation and received a visit from our Savior in which He instructed to you that these events transpired and that there were indeed inspired from God? Or are you working on what you believe is common sense and faith and what you feel is correct based upon your intuition, and understand from reading 3rd person accounts etc. There have been very few direct revelations given to man status post the Joseph Smith era. This is probably for a reason. Section 135 - John Taylor of the council of the 12 Section 136 - Brigham Young Official Declaration 1 - Wilford Woodruff Section 138 - Joseph F. Smith Official Declaration 2 - Spencer W. Kimball What good can possibly come from your line of argument?

"Our speculations as to the reason(s) (for the priesthood ban) have been essentially worthless, and sometimes harmful," Daniel C. Peterson wrote. "God has not seen fit to explain why he commanded or at least permitted the denial of priesthood to blacks. "We certainly don't know that God withheld the priesthood from blacks in order to protect them, or because they weren't 'ready' for it, or because it 'benefited' them to be denied access to the temple or opportunities to serve missions, and the like," he continued. "We just don't know. And if we ever learn the reason, that knowledge will come through the Lord's chosen prophets and apostles, not through BYU professors like me." Peterson's position is in line with statements made by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland of the LDS Church's Quorum of the Twelve in a March 2006 interview with Helen Whitney of PBS. During the interview, Elder Holland referred to speculations — including those by early church leaders — about the reasons why blacks could not hold the LDS priesthood for a period of time as "folklore" that "must never be perpetuated." "All I can say is, however well-intentioned the explanations were, I think almost all of them were inadequate and/or wrong," Elder Holland said. "It would have been advantageous to say nothing, to say we just don't know, and, (as) with many religious matters, whatever was being done was done on the basis of faith at that time ... We simply don't know why that practice, that policy, that doctrine was in place." Recently, the Church has also made the following statement on this subject: "The origins of priesthood availability are not entirely clear. Some explanations with respect to this matter were made in the absence of direct revelation and references to these explanations are sometimes cited in publications. These previous personal statements do not represent Church doctrine." Deseret News, LDS Church condemns past racism 'inside and outside the church', Feb 29, 2012

The Father and the Son - Ensign Apr. 2002 - ensign

revelance to this thread?

your post #157 is well put together. thank you

Recently, the Church has also made the following statement on this subject: "The origins of priesthood availability are not entirely clear. Some explanations with respect to this matter were made in the absence of direct revelation and references to these explanations are sometimes cited in publications. These previous personal statements do not represent Church doctrine." deseretnews.com mobile Church Statement Regarding 'Washington Post' Article on Race and the Church - LDS Newsroom

You on the other hand seem to be asserting that Brigham Young and other early prophets did receive revelation for the Church, that specifically withheld the blessings of the priesthood for worthy Africans. For which they did not feel the need to reveal as doctrine in a written format for canonization... Or am I just misunderstanding you? I am unclear of your meaning...

It combined with my personal belief is sufficient for me... I do not require it to be sufficient for you... My conclusions are my own. Do you believe that every comment that Brigham Young made was direct revelation from God? Have you read the Adam-God Theory? And yes Joseph Smith is a personal hero of mine. Amen.

I based my conclusion on the following... Abel was born in Maryland as a slave, and is believed to have escaped slavery on the Underground Railroad into Canada. He was baptized into the Church of Christ in September 1832 by Ezekiel Roberts, and he married Mary Ann Adams, another African-American. Abel was ordained an elder on March 3, 1836 in Kirtland, Ohio by Joseph Smith. In 1839, Abel was made a member of the Nauvoo Seventies Quorum. While living in Nauvoo, Illinois, he worked as a mortician at the request of Joseph Smith. Elijah Abel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Joseph Smith's views of the true nature of the African American, according to the modern view, may be seen in the following exchange (as recorded in History of the Church, Volume 5, p. 216): Elder Hyde inquired about the situation of the negro. I replied, they came into the world slaves mentally and physically. Change their situation with the whites, and they would be like them. They have souls, and are subjects of salvation. Go into Cincinnati or any city, and find an educated negro, who rides in his carriage, and you will see a man who has risen by the powers of his own mind to his exalted state of respectability. The slaves in Washington are more refined than many in high places, and the black boys will take the shine of many of those they brush and wait on.

Thought I was... Seems - Used to make a statement or description of one's thoughts, feelings, or actions less assertive or forceful. (Merriam-Webster) Yet President Kimball was the only Prophet to receive direct revelation concerning this question that became canonized...

That is the point. Joseph Smith did not deny the Priesthood to Africans. It seems to me that it was a policy put into place without revelation.

First and Second Comforter There is two Comforters spoken of [one] is the Holy Ghost the same as given on the day of pentecost and that all Saints receive after faith. Repentance & Baptism. This first comforter or Holy Ghost has no other effect than pure intelligence. It is more powerful in expanding the mind enlightening the understanding & storeing the intellect with present knowledge of a man who is of the literal Seed of Abraham than one that is a gentile though it may not have half as much visible effect upon the body for as the Holy Ghost falls upon one of the Literal Seed of Abraham it is calm & serene & his whole soul & body are only exercised by the pure spirit of Intelligence; while the effect of the Holy Ghost upon a Gentile is to purge out the old blood & make him actually of the seed of Abraham. That man that has none of the blood of Abraham (naturally) must have a new creation by the Holy Ghost, in such a case there may be more of a powerful effect upon the body & visible to the eye than upon an Israelite, while the Israelite at first might be far before the Gentile in pure intelligence Joseph Smith, Jr., June 27, 1839, as recorded in the Williard Richards Pocket Companion

My current view (I reserve the right to change my mind due to further revelation or scientific knowledge). The Earth is freaking old. Days 1-5 likely took near 4.6 billion years. I believe that when Joseph Smith said, "This earth was organized or formed out of other planets which were broke up and remodelled and made into the one on which we live." I think that he was basing his comments on a vision that The Lord gave him wherein he saw a first generation star go supernova and then that debris was organized into an new protoplanetary disk, which later produced our Earth. I have no problem with Man being on Earth only 6K years. MEE (Mass Extinction Events) have occurred many times during the history of our planet. I bet that Heavenly Father was teaching Jehovah how to create life, and that He did the trial and error learning on dianosaurs, neanderthals, etc. All God would have to do, is set up the Garden of Eden by preceding it with a MEE and then travel to Earth and create Adam and Eve. Quick and Dirty.

Your words: Take your time. I would appreciate the quote.