mrmarklin

The atonement has no limitations. Go to church. No one expects your crises to be wiped away immediately. Simply by being there you will be able to feel more spiritual and gradually lift yourself up to a point higher than you are now, and maybe higher than ever. Socializing with reasonable members can help with all the above. There are plenty of self righteous jerks in the Church, but a lot who are not as well. Of course you know which ones to cultivate!;-)

Really?

All well and good FP. But not equivalent.

It's more than the world has gotten smaller. Over half the members no longer live in Utah-Idaho-Arizona corridor. My whole point is that context is everything in these "counsels" and that people are human and products of their upbringing and environment. So getting back to the topic, there is no equivalency whatsoever between a commandment and "counsel".

Do you really think any person of authority in the church would pronounce this in any public venue today? I married in 1971 to a very good person, while not from the US or necessarily what one perceives as "white", has ended up as a long term marriage with children etc. We'd heard of this "counsel" at the time (we were both BYU students) but luckily ignored it. We felt it was much more important that we held common church values together going forward than considerations of ethnicity.

Vort, See Post #71.

Stovepipe hat.

The real question is: in which venue was this ever appropriate? I wouldn't be married to my wife, and I venture to say that many on this forum wouldn't be married to their current spouses had they followed this "counsel" explicitly.

Very perceptive SP. I have a nephew that basically left the church at a very young age due to a lack of "socialization". Actually, it was more than a lack, it was hostility from Aaronic priesthood members.This is likely what is really happening.

We don't use the cross in the sense that Catholics do. ie. Having a piece of the true cross in a place of prominence in any of our churches and other public buildings. I've seen several of these pieces BTW. Unlike us, the Catholic churches are mostly open daily to worshipers. In that sense there are AFAIK no relics in any of our churches.

//thread.

I'm all for listening to the counsel of the General Authorities. But one must look at context: Who is the audience, where is the counsel being given, who is giving it, etc etc. There are a lot of quotations extracted from speeches at BYU for example, that really need to be taken with a grain of salt because of the specific audience to which the speech was delivered. Most GAs live in Utah in whitebread Salt Lake City and that is their life experience. When traveling, they either stay at hotels or with Stake Presidents etc. So they're not seeing the real world of where they visit. So a lot of the counsel given is from that perspective as well. Not to say much of it isn't good, but sometimes not realistic in other venues.

Exactly this.

Nothing in your post sounds like a deal breaker. You simply did not know he wasn't a match when you married. I'll come back to my old thesis: Date for at least a year before you marry someone. One needs to see and experience the "life cycle" of holidays, vacations, habits etc. Stay together at least until the kids are raised. There is a ray of hope: You do say he will clean up when asked!

Not as difficult as one would think. The steering wheel is on the right side of the vehicle, and that is a very useful reminder. I remember being apprehensive the first time I drove in England, but it was really not a problem. :)

Insanity is hereditary. You get it from your kids.

D&C Sec 42: 18 And now, behold, I speak unto the church. Thou shalt not kill; and he that kills shall not have forgiveness in this world, nor in the world to come. I think all murderers will get their comeuppance. Their forgiveness is clearly limited.

I tend to agree that the promised land(s) are the American continents. While touring the ruins of Tiwanaku in Bolivia about 10 years ago with a member of the church, that person stated that he heard that Spencer Kimball (while traveling in Boliviia) said that the events of the Book of Mormon took place in part in Bolivia. I agree that MesoAmerica is a very likely location, since they of all the native peoples had writing. I consider that fairly indicative. But then there are other problems with the location..

edit. Duplicate post

Clearly there is a lot of intervention. I would submit that among many other examples, the right people at the right time have been placed on earth to facilitate the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, the Discovery of the Americas, the American and French Revolutions etc etc. Further than that, I've often wondered about certain disasters that destroyed a lot of cities and people. For example, a few years age the city of Aceh was wiped out by a tsunami. Then I read somewhere that it had been a center of Islamic anti western activity. It occurred to me; was God intervening in human affairs to prevent some terrorist activity that could have an especially destructive effect to His plans? This of course, would also have the side benefit of destroying a lot of wicked people. On a more personal level my 25 yo niece recently had an operation where the doctors advised the family that there was almost no hope of her survival. Of course many prayers were said etc etc. And as it turned out she survived, but after several weeks she's not fully recovered, but may recover fully. The operation did not cure her underlying disease of leukemia, but mitigated the devastating effects of chemotherapy. Intervention? I'd like to think so.

In fairness, in these segments having one side oppose the other is SOP, regardless of the merits of the case. Otherwise there would not be a discussion. :)

He/She is getting a new reality show. Follow the money.

I'm fairly negative toward evangelicals because of the intolerance exhibited by some in deciding who is "Christian". Mormons obviously don't qualify, being a cult and all. But surprisingly, Catholics don't make the cut either.

There is clearly a chance to repent in the Spirit world, for none of us are going to die without sin. I agree with one of the comments that we will largely be judged on our attitudes and goals. That's where grace comes in. We are given grace after all we can do. I think there's a scripture in the Book of Mormon to that effect. If one is trying to overcome addiction upon death, I believe that one will probably come out OK. Edit: I don't think skipping church a couple of times will keep a believer out of Paradise section of Spirit World.:-)

Lots of areas on the Snake river. You're in Gods country as far as fly fishing is concerned. Henry's Fork.