Suzie

Hi Durante, a scripture and some interesting quotes: Moses 3:5 : Joseph Smith also taught: In the book "Sacred Truths of the Doctrine and Covenants" it says:

One of the main issues I have though with that statement deseretgov is that IF is possible that the Prophet can lead us astray, then the quotes of JS that you just put become invalid because (according to your post's main point) he could have lied or led the people astray in those quotes....

Not at all IMO. I actually have similar views but you're so much more eloquent. Thanks.

deseretgov, I will have to read and find those sources myself and see how everything fits together however I wanted to say I enjoyed your post and you make some valid points IMO.

Ummmm...I can't really speak for Vanhin (he can correct me if I am wrong) but I think his post was in reference to my post (#34) about this brother who allegedly got his second anointing and goes around teaching unorthodox doctrines to people. Wow, this is weird.

I think it's a matter of common sense and fairness. If a person states their personal opinion they don't have to provide any source for their statement (because it's their personal view of course and they should stated as "MY" personal opinion). However when they state as a fact something that someone else said (a Prophet, a leader, etc) then the person needs to be prepared to back it up with a source because it can be misleading if the information is not accurate (which can happen) and we don't want to mislead folks here, right? :) So really, it's not a matter of seeking a quick answer but a matter of providing the source for the claim that is being made. It is only fair. :)

I mentioned before that I know at least 3 guys who claim they have received revelations from God in a number of issues. One of them claim to be a member of the Church of the Firstborn and that the atonement of Christ no longer applies to him because he and his wife had their Call and Election Made Sure (outside the temple). This same person approached me with the intention of finding out whether or not I wanted to receive it because he could make it possible. Yes, you can well imagine my face when he said that. The leaders were warned because he would go around the wards preaching his doctrine and encouraging people to listen to his message, the interesting thing about him is that many people listened to him because he USED Church doctrine AND the scriptures to support some of his theories. My last communication with him was after he told me there is nothing wrong with being naked around people and some other stuff I cannot share here... Hence, for me is a HUGE, HUGE RED FLAG when anyone claims to have received their Call and Election Made Sure because if someone receives such a sacred experience, I would think they would keep it as the most sacred experience in their lives and won't go around publishing it online, in a magazine or be boasting for the world to hear. Did I mention how charismatic he is? He is VERY charismatic and MOST false prophets are!

I was just about to mention that the key word in that statement is ANYONE. Thanks for pointing it out. Also it would be nice that when statements are made if people can actually post a reference for the claim they are making OR state clearly that it is their personal opinion to avoid us to be waiting for the answer or searching something that may not even be accurate.

I wish I could thank this post twice!

Promiscuity regardless of sexual orientation is high risk.

Homosexuality and promiscuity are not mutually inclusive. There are millions of heterosexual people out there who are very promiscuous, why do you seem to suggest that the gay couple only may have this issue?

Hi Jena, I don't think my ward ever read the "appropriate testimony" letter from the First Presidency, would you mind paraphrasing what it said? Thanks a lot.

Hi Carlimac. I think you may be a little over sensitive. From your comment about a "gang" mentality, thinking someone attacked you because they told you not to read the blogs if they bother you, and now "reading" into a gingerbread cookie avatar, it's a bit too much don't you think? A discussion forum is what it is. There are people who will agree with you and others disagree. I had my share here as well with a poster or two and nobody "made me" feel in any particular way. I chose to feel the way I wanted at that time (and it was more funny to me than anything else) I cannot speak for Pam (she is free to correct me) but I don't think she was hurt, I think it was you who got your feelings hurt because you are perceiving a personal attack where there is none. I think you make some valid points about the ads, unfortunately the Church as a whole will not be able to avoid the negative stereotypes overnight and we need to be realistic and understand not everyone will feel about the Church in the same way regardless of ads. This "new" approach is a smart move IMO because a LOT of people truly think we are somewhat "religious fanatics" and even though there are those in the Church, we also have a variety of people from all races and backgrounds. Maybe we are seeing this in a total different perspective and it's okay to agree to disagree sometimes. :)

It's interesting that you mention this because in my experience Pam is one of the most caring posters on this board, we don't agree with a lot of things however she has always remained respectful. There is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning or challenging your views, that's exactly what you open up to when you participate in a discussion forum. Bashed by Wingnut? I think she is amazing (and we don't agree in a lot of things as well) She tell it like it is without the sugar coating and flowers some people may be expecting. She never attacked you. I think you maybe confusing challenging your views with personal attack. Two completely different things. I think is a great idea, however the Church wants to reach MILLIONS of people across the US and outside the US (where these ads are also shown through cable). Fairs won't be able to accomplish this task effectively. And that's why as Latter Day Saints we are encouraged to be an example to others by giving unselfish service to those around us and we should do it because that's what Christ told us to do when he was on the Earth and not for the purpose of promoting ourselves. The only reason the Church uses technology is because it works! The Church has an amazing team of specialists on this field. I think your ideas are great but won't reach the amount of people the Church wants to reach.

Semodex, congratulations in your new calling! Make it FUN! So your kids can learn more about the Gospel in an exciting way! :)

You are using technology, you are using the Media. What can you expect? You can only get two reactions: The positive ones and the negatives ones. The negatives ones WILL happen with or without the ads. The Church has experts on the field, they know exactly what they are doing and the whole purpose of the ads is to let people know that Mormons aren't only missionaries dressed in suits, moms with 10 children and all we do is go to Church and worship. The Church wants to let people know that our members can also be fun, exciting, intelligent and pretty much like your next door neighbor! That's the message they are trying to send.

But that's not what the OP said. The lady in question didn't mention racism. She said she felt out of place.

It's interesting that you are mentioning this because based on what you wrote, she didn't say she felt members of the ward were judging her on her race or skin color, she said she felt out of place (two different things) Hmmmm..... I don't think you should approach her about how she should feel. I feel it's inappropriate every time people get up and talk about anything else than is not concerning Christ and his Church but few people complain. I guess maybe you are the racially sensitive and feel uncomfortable that she brought up the issue of race in Church? Having said that, I lived in many countries around the world where I was the minority. It's not as easy as you may think. It's pretty hard at firs to get used to the fact that people generally look at you differently, you stand out in the crowd (who wants that??) you do not feel you "belong", etc. It took me a while to get used to it, more I traveled, more I was able to handle it. But keep in mind that some people handle these sort of issues in a complete different way.

It doesn't bother me at all. Maybe because I am used to it and I'm thick skinned but generally I would either shake my head, laugh if the claim is ridiculous or just totally ignore it.

Since you are quoting a BYU professor, I would like to quote again Hugh Nibley, my post #31 since he mentions Satan: http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/33704-surprising-quote-ensign-about-long-hair-4.html

Nah....I think based on the description, Funky is Dr. Walter Langkowski from Vancouver: File:Walter Langkowski .jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Urban, I think you have a point because people are going to BUY this stuff however you are dealing with VOLUNTEERS, you cannot really make any demands (and yes, you expect them to do the best they can but some do, some do not, some try). You did your part when you told her about it, what else can you do? If it bothers you too much then maybe you shouldn't go anymore like you said. I think the whole thing is making a mountain out of a molehill....

I heard Funky will start growing hair after he read this thread, now THAT will be disappointing (got enough with the fact he cries in real life) but I don't think I can take a "hairy" Funky.

Well, I will give my honest opinion. I don't think the issues you have has nothing to do with VT but all about your approach to it (and attitude). Let me explain..... IMO, Visiting Teaching is about serving our sisters in Christ. Many of these sisters look forward to the visit because they have nobody to talk to and share their problems. When we are truly engaged in serving others like Christ did, we forget about ourselves and we look at the bigger picture...sisters in need who need our love and support (and that also includes your companion and the sisters who visit you). Being resentful because you have to drive all the time is kind of silly taking into consideration the real purposes of these visits not to mention that you at least have a car to do these visits, try to see the positive side of it. I have lived in countries where sisters have to either walk or use public transportation to visit teach, many times waking up early in the morning to reach their destination at noon (and many times fighting adverse weather conditions). It reminds of the saying "I was sad because I didn't have shoes until I met a man who had no feet". About the sister who comes home with her children, I think is quite unfair to make assumptions about her husband, HOWEVER it is not right for the kids to be destroying your house! Maybe a next approach should be talking with her about it and be honest about her kids. You can also choose to meet her at Church or at another location (for lunch?). I do admire the willingness of your VT to do her visits every month despite the fact that she has to carry her hyper kids along. So in the end (and I hope you are not offended by it) in my opinion, it's not that you hate Visiting Teaching, you are just having a wrong approach to it and unless you forget yourself in the service of the people you were assigned to you will still feel miserable....even if you do not have to drive anymore.

Ouch.