Windseeker

I just thought it vaguely cool they were singing at a presidential inauguration. That was as far as my thoughts went.

Says you...  And in your life you rule.
But other people aren't you.   And you don't get to dictate to them on what will make them happy.
If the young man in the other thread has issues with the attractiveness of the women he is dating then he needs to deal.
Because a spouse(either one) being miserable in marriage, makes for a miserable marriage. And that makes it important to and for the family.  It doesn't matter if the cause is not enough income or not enough attractiveness

In a recent thread, a young man voiced his struggles over whether his girlfriend and potential fiancée was the right one for him, suggesting that he might meet someone prettier. He was roundly thumped on for such an attitude. I am astounded* that the same people who so willingly got all over him for his "immaturity" and "shallowness" did not similarly condemn this young woman for daring to suggest that her fiancé's new career path might not be as lucrative as she might want.
*I'm not really astounded. I'm not even surprised. This shameless double standard is par for the course.

Fun things to consider, that are in the public record, researched and talked about by LDS students and scholars:
Joseph was introduced to Masonry in 1842.  Here's a list of things that happened before 1842:
1835 - Book of Abraham
- Key-words of the priesthood
- The phrase “only to be had in the temple of God”
1837 - Ceremonial washing and Annointing with oil were practiced at Kirtland temple – 5 years before Joseph Smith was introduced to masonry.
Jan 19, 1841 - revelation on temple ordinances, now identified as Doctrine and Covenants 124
- Anointings (39)
- The keys of the holy priesthood (34, 95, 97)  (Orson Pratt provided a footnoting system for the Doctrine and Covenants that was included with the book up through 1918. In the footnotes of D/C 124 he indicated that “keys” referred to in verses 95 and 97 were “the order of God for receiving revelations” and “the order, ordained of God”  
- Memorials of Levitical sacrifices (39)
- Solemn assemblies (39)
- Oracles, conversations, statutes, and judgments (39)
- Ordinances that have been kept hidden (40-41)
- The fullness of the priesthood (28)
9 March 1841 – Joseph tells the Nauvoo Lyceum that the “great God has a name by which he will be called which is Ahman, also in asking have reference to person like Adam, for God made Adam just in His own image. Now this is a key for you to know how to ask and obtain.”
May 5 1841 – Visit with William Appleby – While discussing facsimile 2, Joseph explained to Appleby that part of the
drawing was related to “the Lord revealing the grand key words of the holy priesthood, to Adam in the garden of Eden, as also Seth, Noah, Melchizedek, Abraham, and to all whom the priesthood was revealed” (William I. Appleby journal,
5 May 1841, ms 1401 1, LDS church archives)
 
Yeah, no. There are obvious similarities between various aspects of freemasonry, and various aspects of temple worship.  And yet, folks are often surprised to learn how many of the obvious similarities showed up before Joseph ever got involved with freemasonry.

From what I've gathered in debates with folks on the other side, here's how it works:
A business is considered a public resource, just like infrastructure or public services (like libraries).  Since it does business with the public, it has to be open to any and all customers for any and all purposes, and the personal beliefs, views and preferences of the owner cannot have any impact on it at all.
In other words, privately owned businesses must be run like public services.
Justification for this mentality is that the business makes use of public infrastructure like roads and fire department services, and of course if it happens to be the only such business in town, then it would be unfair to "deny" their services to anyone since they couldn't get those services somewhere else (which is a weak argument considering a Christian bakery in a town with 100 other bakeries would still be obligated to do what these people want.) 
The idea that anyone can lay claim to the services provided by a private business as if it were public is a perfectly natural side effect of a Socialistic perspective.

Speaking from my own experience: I would say that standing up to the bully is usually the way to go. Fight for your life. Kick, scratch, and claw. Go for the eyes. Bite -- hard. Fingers, face, whatever you can clamp your jaw down onto. Draw blood. Bite off pieces. Kick him in the jewels as much as possible. Fight as if you're going to die anyway. And when you get him down, don't stop the beating, because I guarantee the bully won't stop beating you when you're down.
Do NOT count on the "authorities" helping you out -- the school principal or teachers or whoever. They are cowards. They are stinking worthless moral relativists who will watch you get beaten and then tell you it's just as much your fault as the bully's. Unless they're cops packing heat, they will let you down and allow the bullying.
What I have described above is ugly and arguably unChristlike. But along with your broken nose and cracked teeth, you will have your self-respect. If you just put your head down, you will get beaten. You won't deserve it, but you'll get a bellyful of it. My suggestion is to fight back as hard as you can.

My older brother was a real bully to me growing up. Being a year younger and the second oldest I was always protecting my younger siblings from him. His Mission changed him completely but some of the things he did had a way of returning to haunt him. During a reunion we held,  after we were grown up and married with young kids, my sister broke down and really layed into him about what a nightmare he had been growing up and it got to the point where her husband packed them up and gently escorted her to thier car departing early. They have since made up. My brother just didn't remember anything about the way he was or used to be. It's hard for me because we are just a year apart, but among bad memories or very precious memories that I want to share with him and he seems to have even forgotten those. He becomes noticably uncomfortable when we bring up anything from our childhood. 
Recently when I was visiting his family his kids, now college age, asked me about a story their Dad (my brother) told me about when I just attacked him out of the blue. I had jumped off our deck and slammed him to the ground and punched him in the face. Somehow my brother remembered this and completely disregarded my side of the story. It made me think that the distance between me and my nephews and neices was because he didn't share my side of things. The truth was that my brother kept trying to wake me up to go help my Dad who was calling for me. After the third time he had punched me in the face several times and left. I remember looking in the mirror and crying because I could see my face swelling and I had never ever been hit in the face or hit anyone in the face in my life (I was 16). It was that and years of intimidation and abuse that made me finally decide to stand up to him. When I attacked him in front of my Dad, my Dad literally cheered me on and didn't interfere because he was happy to see me standing up for myself. So for some reason my nephews and neices think I was psycho and I don't know how the jibs with their grandparents always refering to me as their peacemaker.
So here I am with this situation and all I can do is love my brother. Whether or not it strained my relationship with his kids is not my problem and the fact that he remembers it wrong is not my problem either. All I can do is forgive him and I do. He has become a someone I greatly admire and he deserves admiration. Whether by choice or circumstance he just doesn't remember things like I do and that's ok. I try to do little things to support those nephews and neices, like liking the facebook posts...lame I know...but we live so far apart I don't have the chance to spend more time with them. 
Anyway, I really love this quote. 

Forgiveness means giving up all hope for a better past. -Lily Tomlin

Happiness is not found in the past it's found in the present and Forgiveness involves the choice to live in the present. We know what we are commanded to do, our experience and our own mistakes and flaws remind us what a wonderful thing Forgiveness is. If we are to become like Heavenly Father we need to view others as he does. Thankfully he views us as we are, not as we were and that is how we need to approach each other. 

My older brother was a real bully to me growing up. Being a year younger and the second oldest I was always protecting my younger siblings from him. His Mission changed him completely but some of the things he did had a way of returning to haunt him. During a reunion we held,  after we were grown up and married with young kids, my sister broke down and really layed into him about what a nightmare he had been growing up and it got to the point where her husband packed them up and gently escorted her to thier car departing early. They have since made up. My brother just didn't remember anything about the way he was or used to be. It's hard for me because we are just a year apart, but among bad memories or very precious memories that I want to share with him and he seems to have even forgotten those. He becomes noticably uncomfortable when we bring up anything from our childhood. 
Recently when I was visiting his family his kids, now college age, asked me about a story their Dad (my brother) told me about when I just attacked him out of the blue. I had jumped off our deck and slammed him to the ground and punched him in the face. Somehow my brother remembered this and completely disregarded my side of the story. It made me think that the distance between me and my nephews and neices was because he didn't share my side of things. The truth was that my brother kept trying to wake me up to go help my Dad who was calling for me. After the third time he had punched me in the face several times and left. I remember looking in the mirror and crying because I could see my face swelling and I had never ever been hit in the face or hit anyone in the face in my life (I was 16). It was that and years of intimidation and abuse that made me finally decide to stand up to him. When I attacked him in front of my Dad, my Dad literally cheered me on and didn't interfere because he was happy to see me standing up for myself. So for some reason my nephews and neices think I was psycho and I don't know how the jibs with their grandparents always refering to me as their peacemaker.
So here I am with this situation and all I can do is love my brother. Whether or not it strained my relationship with his kids is not my problem and the fact that he remembers it wrong is not my problem either. All I can do is forgive him and I do. He has become a someone I greatly admire and he deserves admiration. Whether by choice or circumstance he just doesn't remember things like I do and that's ok. I try to do little things to support those nephews and neices, like liking the facebook posts...lame I know...but we live so far apart I don't have the chance to spend more time with them. 
Anyway, I really love this quote. 

Forgiveness means giving up all hope for a better past. -Lily Tomlin

Happiness is not found in the past it's found in the present and Forgiveness involves the choice to live in the present. We know what we are commanded to do, our experience and our own mistakes and flaws remind us what a wonderful thing Forgiveness is. If we are to become like Heavenly Father we need to view others as he does. Thankfully he views us as we are, not as we were and that is how we need to approach each other. 

Kubo and the two strings.  Family loved it.  Me too, it's just that when I'm surprised by a movie involving dead parents, well...

Hey Fire Guy,
 
LDS Social Services typically offers marriage counseling, the Bishop will have the ward cover the cost if you can't. 
Stick to your guns, man. Divorce is all hype and after, no one is happier or better off for it. 
Occasionally, my wife and I will have our issues, we've even done the separation thing. It comes full circle, neither one of us want a divorce (I think we're both of the "I refuse" types), I appreciate the time apart in our separations as it allows me to get closer to God, it allows me to listen, not just hear what my wife's issues are with me, but allows me opportunity to empathize with her, make little changes here and there, because I want to be the husband she deserves. She's a fascinatingly delicate woman, even under the worst of circumstances, I'm mezmorized by her. 
 
 
 

It certainly sounds as if you have a lot of strain and turmoil lately, after reading all of this I cannot really offer anything new except talk to your Bishop about possible help with counseling for you and your wife. Your sister-in-law having lost everything recently is likely struggling and might also benefit from counseling. I wish you all well. 
I recently had an adult daughter move home, she brought her live-in boyfriend and a cat. None of this was ideal, but, as she was quitting a drug addiction and trying to clean up her life, I agreed he could come. This was in July of 2016. They are both clean, and working, and now beginning a house search (2 months later than my you must move out by date) She may not live the life I want her too but, I will let her take her path and hope it arrives at a healthy and happy place for her. As a parent, it is really terrifying and hard to watch a child succumb to a bad path and to a drug addiction, so I had to say yes in just the tiny flicker of hope she could find her way back to real life and happiness. 
Helping others is stressful, they don't often work as hard as they could, or get jobs as quick as they could, I really thought we were faced with the possibility of kicking them out, but we backed completely off and sure enough they came around on their own. This was after we stopped mentioning jobs, and moving, and paying her bills on her own....they both got jobs, started paying some bills (baby-steps).  In the end, my husband and I (as well as her younger siblings) are tired of them being here. But, I have done my piece, helped out a loved one.
I wait patiently for them to leave. What I have learned is:
1. helping others who are coming out of trauma or addiction is a slower process than we would like, we don't always get to decide how fast it goes  (Ha, I told them jobs and move out in 90 days).
2. It is REALLY trying, if I had it to do again I'd get them a place for 2 months and the rest is up to them.
3. They will likely cause tension and other fights in the household. I don't care for her points of view or the ridiculous thinking she exposes her sisters too but in the end we will all survive.  
It reminds me to help in a smarter way in the future. Lesson learned. 
I truly wish you the best and hope the SIL finds a job and you will have one less thing on your plate soon. 
 

My older brother was a real bully to me growing up. Being a year younger and the second oldest I was always protecting my younger siblings from him. His Mission changed him completely but some of the things he did had a way of returning to haunt him. During a reunion we held,  after we were grown up and married with young kids, my sister broke down and really layed into him about what a nightmare he had been growing up and it got to the point where her husband packed them up and gently escorted her to thier car departing early. They have since made up. My brother just didn't remember anything about the way he was or used to be. It's hard for me because we are just a year apart, but among bad memories or very precious memories that I want to share with him and he seems to have even forgotten those. He becomes noticably uncomfortable when we bring up anything from our childhood. 
Recently when I was visiting his family his kids, now college age, asked me about a story their Dad (my brother) told me about when I just attacked him out of the blue. I had jumped off our deck and slammed him to the ground and punched him in the face. Somehow my brother remembered this and completely disregarded my side of the story. It made me think that the distance between me and my nephews and neices was because he didn't share my side of things. The truth was that my brother kept trying to wake me up to go help my Dad who was calling for me. After the third time he had punched me in the face several times and left. I remember looking in the mirror and crying because I could see my face swelling and I had never ever been hit in the face or hit anyone in the face in my life (I was 16). It was that and years of intimidation and abuse that made me finally decide to stand up to him. When I attacked him in front of my Dad, my Dad literally cheered me on and didn't interfere because he was happy to see me standing up for myself. So for some reason my nephews and neices think I was psycho and I don't know how the jibs with their grandparents always refering to me as their peacemaker.
So here I am with this situation and all I can do is love my brother. Whether or not it strained my relationship with his kids is not my problem and the fact that he remembers it wrong is not my problem either. All I can do is forgive him and I do. He has become a someone I greatly admire and he deserves admiration. Whether by choice or circumstance he just doesn't remember things like I do and that's ok. I try to do little things to support those nephews and neices, like liking the facebook posts...lame I know...but we live so far apart I don't have the chance to spend more time with them. 
Anyway, I really love this quote. 

Forgiveness means giving up all hope for a better past. -Lily Tomlin

Happiness is not found in the past it's found in the present and Forgiveness involves the choice to live in the present. We know what we are commanded to do, our experience and our own mistakes and flaws remind us what a wonderful thing Forgiveness is. If we are to become like Heavenly Father we need to view others as he does. Thankfully he views us as we are, not as we were and that is how we need to approach each other. 

It is important to understand the mission and purpose of the Messiah when we attempt to decipher his message.  For example Jesus said he did not come into the world to condemn the world but that through him the world would be redeemed.   In essence he did not come to tells us every little detail as to why the world is corrupt or to point out why the “ways” of the world are not profitable.   He came into the world to tell us of the way of truth and light.  He came to show us the way to exaltation and eternal life (Celestial).
Part of his message is that any deviation from the path of truth and light will result in a damnation or limit to what light and truth a person can enjoy in eternity.  One element of eternal truth and light is the marriage of a man and a woman – this is the only eternal covenant by which mankind can have increase – or if you will – propagate the divine species of G-ds.  
It does not appear to me that the priority of Jesus in his role as the Messiah is explain perversions – his role is to teach correct principles and have us govern ourselves.  It is my personal belief that G-d will allow us to govern ourselves and indulge all manner of pleasures as we so desire or are inclined to find attraction to or orientation with.  It is also my personal belief that any person by the sure force of their will can determine what they will be – including their sexual orientation – no one or any exterior thing can determine what a person is or will become – each person determines their path – this is the great gift of agency.
 
The Traveler

My older brother was a real bully to me growing up. Being a year younger and the second oldest I was always protecting my younger siblings from him. His Mission changed him completely but some of the things he did had a way of returning to haunt him. During a reunion we held,  after we were grown up and married with young kids, my sister broke down and really layed into him about what a nightmare he had been growing up and it got to the point where her husband packed them up and gently escorted her to thier car departing early. They have since made up. My brother just didn't remember anything about the way he was or used to be. It's hard for me because we are just a year apart, but among bad memories or very precious memories that I want to share with him and he seems to have even forgotten those. He becomes noticably uncomfortable when we bring up anything from our childhood. 
Recently when I was visiting his family his kids, now college age, asked me about a story their Dad (my brother) told me about when I just attacked him out of the blue. I had jumped off our deck and slammed him to the ground and punched him in the face. Somehow my brother remembered this and completely disregarded my side of the story. It made me think that the distance between me and my nephews and neices was because he didn't share my side of things. The truth was that my brother kept trying to wake me up to go help my Dad who was calling for me. After the third time he had punched me in the face several times and left. I remember looking in the mirror and crying because I could see my face swelling and I had never ever been hit in the face or hit anyone in the face in my life (I was 16). It was that and years of intimidation and abuse that made me finally decide to stand up to him. When I attacked him in front of my Dad, my Dad literally cheered me on and didn't interfere because he was happy to see me standing up for myself. So for some reason my nephews and neices think I was psycho and I don't know how the jibs with their grandparents always refering to me as their peacemaker.
So here I am with this situation and all I can do is love my brother. Whether or not it strained my relationship with his kids is not my problem and the fact that he remembers it wrong is not my problem either. All I can do is forgive him and I do. He has become a someone I greatly admire and he deserves admiration. Whether by choice or circumstance he just doesn't remember things like I do and that's ok. I try to do little things to support those nephews and neices, like liking the facebook posts...lame I know...but we live so far apart I don't have the chance to spend more time with them. 
Anyway, I really love this quote. 

Forgiveness means giving up all hope for a better past. -Lily Tomlin

Happiness is not found in the past it's found in the present and Forgiveness involves the choice to live in the present. We know what we are commanded to do, our experience and our own mistakes and flaws remind us what a wonderful thing Forgiveness is. If we are to become like Heavenly Father we need to view others as he does. Thankfully he views us as we are, not as we were and that is how we need to approach each other. 

My older brother was a real bully to me growing up. Being a year younger and the second oldest I was always protecting my younger siblings from him. His Mission changed him completely but some of the things he did had a way of returning to haunt him. During a reunion we held,  after we were grown up and married with young kids, my sister broke down and really layed into him about what a nightmare he had been growing up and it got to the point where her husband packed them up and gently escorted her to thier car departing early. They have since made up. My brother just didn't remember anything about the way he was or used to be. It's hard for me because we are just a year apart, but among bad memories or very precious memories that I want to share with him and he seems to have even forgotten those. He becomes noticably uncomfortable when we bring up anything from our childhood. 
Recently when I was visiting his family his kids, now college age, asked me about a story their Dad (my brother) told me about when I just attacked him out of the blue. I had jumped off our deck and slammed him to the ground and punched him in the face. Somehow my brother remembered this and completely disregarded my side of the story. It made me think that the distance between me and my nephews and neices was because he didn't share my side of things. The truth was that my brother kept trying to wake me up to go help my Dad who was calling for me. After the third time he had punched me in the face several times and left. I remember looking in the mirror and crying because I could see my face swelling and I had never ever been hit in the face or hit anyone in the face in my life (I was 16). It was that and years of intimidation and abuse that made me finally decide to stand up to him. When I attacked him in front of my Dad, my Dad literally cheered me on and didn't interfere because he was happy to see me standing up for myself. So for some reason my nephews and neices think I was psycho and I don't know how the jibs with their grandparents always refering to me as their peacemaker.
So here I am with this situation and all I can do is love my brother. Whether or not it strained my relationship with his kids is not my problem and the fact that he remembers it wrong is not my problem either. All I can do is forgive him and I do. He has become a someone I greatly admire and he deserves admiration. Whether by choice or circumstance he just doesn't remember things like I do and that's ok. I try to do little things to support those nephews and neices, like liking the facebook posts...lame I know...but we live so far apart I don't have the chance to spend more time with them. 
Anyway, I really love this quote. 

Forgiveness means giving up all hope for a better past. -Lily Tomlin

Happiness is not found in the past it's found in the present and Forgiveness involves the choice to live in the present. We know what we are commanded to do, our experience and our own mistakes and flaws remind us what a wonderful thing Forgiveness is. If we are to become like Heavenly Father we need to view others as he does. Thankfully he views us as we are, not as we were and that is how we need to approach each other. 

Say to the mother?  Just throw your arms around her and say this doesn't change your opinion of her.  If you have stories of surprising family shame that you can share without gossiping, empathize away.
What should the daughter do to deal?  Well, like Gator, I've said, been, and done things in my past I'm not proud of.  One person brings them to my attention from time to time.  I wholeheartedly suggest the following to the daughter: 
* Own, admit.  If there's truth to the accusations, if you did those things, then admit such.  Maybe not publicly, but absolutely to the people voicing the pain, and might as well include mom and anyone else who saw the outburst.  
* Maybe explain, but don't defend or justify.  Now is not the time to say something like "Yeah, I did those things, but you don't know the hell [relative] was putting me through at the time!"   Maybe this: "Yes, I remember those days.  I was taking all my issues out on everyone else, rather than just deal with them."
* Apologize, offer amends.  Honestly, responding to these people admitting the stuff you did, validating their hurt, may be the only thing needed.  
* Understand past actions don't define you.  They describe what you did.  No, you were not a horrible little monster, but maybe you did some horrible things.  Your actions don't define your worth, your value.  God does.  Find me the scripture that says "Jesus died for our sins, but not Ashley's, because dang, she was such a shrew".  See, that's not how it works.  
* Think charitably of the people who blew up.  Being stuck in the pain of something that happened more than a decade ago is a sad, horrible thing.  Letting past instances of cruelty make someone publicly cruel?  That's a hard place to be.  There is also a teeny-tiny chance they might be making this face:
 

 

When it came to matters of dealing with slightly attractive swamp creatures, no one was more up to the task than the powerful wizard @Windseeker and his trusty dog @Edspringer Spaniel. As an extra precaution they brought along @DoctorLemon, but for some odd reason his medicine wasn't always that reliable?!? 

I denounce anyone that judges a person's worth by skin color or sex.
This includes all groups and individuals, who have such attitudes, and is not limited to just the white supermacist/neo-nazis organizations

Now let's hear your recast for Blazing Saddles.

For some time I have become concerned with the trend of the evolving definition of marriage and family.  My concern is not about love, honor and concerns between friends and respect for relationships – just the trend in mixing the relationships of marriage and family with friends and all other personal relationships. 
Obviously there is a great deal of problems and dysfunction in many a family and marriage relationship.  Such dysfunctions are likely to have an impact in the eternities.  But none of this is quite the point I am trying to make. 
The path to becoming a Celestial being will indeed require that we build associations with a vast variety of creation.  Because I am often providing blood to mosquitoes I dread the possibility that the Celestial Kingdom could have many of them.  This is because I see such things in my mortal perspective – those things that give me comfort I tend to become “selfish” about.
I tend to think the family of eternity will be exclusive to what is human in this life – this according to the covenants of family made in the temples of G-d.  I do believe we will have loving concerns and relationships for many things of creation – Including things that were created by and owned by G-d our Father – creatures that he also loves and to which he gave life.  I had a pet dog that I grew up with.  A dog that I got within a day of its birth that would have died had I not fed it by hand with an eye dropper and cared for it.  As a child I was drawn with great love for this dog as much as any friend or family member.  She was not allowed anywhere in the house except my bed room where she sleep every night – even when I was away on a mission and serving in the army.
I was very troubled when she took sick and was in great pain.  I felt great responsibility for her and her care – and would not allow her to be put down by anyone but me and I held her in my arms when I put her down and gave her rest for her suffering.  Will I see her again – I believe so and I believe we will meet with joy and gladness.  In my personal prayers I have inquired after her.  I believe my prayers have been answered – at least in part.  That G-d loves her as much and even more so than I.  This does not take away at all from my love for her – but she belongs to my G-d and he lovingly is willing to share her – even in eternity.  I am grateful that my Father shares with me some of his most cherished possessions. 
 
The Traveler

Welcome from a fellow Floridian!

When someone from the other side says something offensive, label him or her as racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. Do your best to impute that feeling generally, not just to the specific case: "That's just how conservatives (or Republicans) are." When someone from your side says something offensive, ignore it. Studiously. Do not respond. If everyone (meaning all liberals, meaning the news media) refuses to mention it, it will go away. If you are forced to defend the offensive thing someone on the Left said, try to reframe it as an understandable instance of frustration with the patriarchy or some such. If worse comes to worst, go to the reliable standby: "Yes, looks like there's hate on both sides." The point is, under no circumstances should you ever unilaterally admit to being wrong.

Welcome! If you drop the first "c" from your name, all of the mathematicians will appreciate your symmetry.