RescueMom

Everyone Hang On... I agree with Vort. shocking. I. know. LOL

I base my own faith on my own experience of being lost. I've been a lost sheep the Shepard has saved. I know he is as real as my own hand. I know he saved me, and all of us. No I can not explain it, but I know he is real, just as real as every breath I take. I don't base my faith on anything else. Yes I believe in the testimony of the Prophets, I believe the BoM to be a witness to Christ, I believe Temple work is important, ect. But my faith is fully and completely in Christ and his Atonement and the love of our Heavenly Father has for us that Atonement is built upon.

I hope that people don't marry just for financial security or just for the way their spouse looks now. I am so glad I am out of that mind set and have the ability to support myself and even my grown kids and don't have to be married for fiscal support. If I ever marry again it won't be to someone for looks, financial support or what class they belong too, it will be because I want to be in a relationship with them for them and not for their ability to propell me to a better class or because of the money they bring to the table. I am secure with my own looks, financially and class wise, therefore I have the freedom to choose anyone regardless of their credit rating.

So if I voice my opinion about myself, and myself only, I am infering everyone right? Just need some clarification on the words you are putting in my mouth. Thanks.

And for the record, Vort, I swing mostly center left on most issues....well except Immigaration, Gun Congtrol and Abortion, then I'm hard right.

Well Vort, It simply means I don't buy the whole snake oil that both are selling, and means that I can form my own opinion and not lock step with either side...I know I think on my own. And yes it does make both parties furious when I call a spade a spade. And it's not so powerful, because we Independents can't vote in primaries in most states. Had that been an option things would be different. But bless your heart for being so concerned about my politcal stances. It makes me feel great that someone is listening to my mumblings.

As a duel citizen of Canada and the US...I don't find the Canadian health care system nearly as bad as people say it is. I have found the wait times to be about the same in both systems. meh. I also have friends from the UK and they like their system too. I guess it's all from the POV. I don't see how government can fix this, but I don't think Big Insurance and Big Pharma are going to fix it either, even if they weren't regulated. I have little faith in humanity to do the right thing by humans, that includes government, business and just regular people. For the record I'm a registered Independent, so mud slinging from either side is a useless straw man tactic to try to change my opinion of either party.

Just because all the churches were wrong doesn't make them evil...it makes them misguided, all having bits of truth but not the complete restored truth. IMHO we should not condemn anyone because of the church they belong to, it's the truth they know. I tend to think the Church of the Devil isn't actually a church at all, but a way of thinking in all manner against God, often taking the form of contention and hate mongering in politics, degradation in entertainment including sexual advertising of everything (hamburgers, cars, clothes), the destroying of self worth in women and men (we all have to look this way, act this way, own this house, drive this car before we are living the 'American Dream'). And one of his greatest tools is to divide the Children of Adam and turn them against each other, and he does quite a good job using religion to do so...it's a brilliant ploy of his to have us hate each other in the name of Christ (he is quite good at it and it works well).

No I don't believe middle groud is off base....but which side of liberty does the locatlity side on? That's my question. Due the bible group have more rights than the neighbor? As I said it's a double edged sword. The bible study group can not trample the rights of the neighbor and vice versa. Most here side on the bible study because of religious inclinations, but does that mean we trample our neighbors rights in the name of religion? Because from that point it's a slippery slope until the government gets decides which religion is going to be the one the government wants.

Er....how do we go about determining who is Terrestrial soul and Celestial soul? I don't live with every member of my ward, and I am not really good at mind reading so I am not sure if I would be able to tell.

but what about the rights of the neighbor? those holding the religous meetings only have rights? As I said it's a double edged sword. We can not force our neighbors into accepting our rights, be they for religous reasons or not. Take the bible study part out of the picture. Imagine a neighbor having 50 big bad bikers over every week to worship the flying spaghetti monster, which included loud music and lots of cars parked up and down the roads. They also have the same rights as the bible study/church group. Which takes me back to the original thought....whose rights are we willing to trample so we can have our rights. As Christians we must always be prepared for our rights to be questioned, have to work twice as hard to keep them peaceably, realize the US Constititution (all though founded in Christianity) might not always protect our rights, and last of all, we must at all times be like Christ when dealing with our neighbors, friends and even enemies. WWJD in this situation? Would he be crying that his rights had been trampled, be angry at his neighbor? I am not saying he wouldn't be fighting for the freedom of everyone, he would do it in such a way that everyone was on board. That is where we need to be, as Christians, not afraid to stand up for our rights, but to do so in such a way that we don't turn our fellow travelers from God. And in doing so we must remember we will have to do so following the laws of the land, and do it twice as good and twice as honest and twice as Christian as what others do. Democracy and Christianity can not be brought on the tip of a sword, for both will be reviled if forced upon a person, group or nation.

In my job we never give out anything free. Our policy is never to tolerate screaming or cursing, we can walk away from, or hang up the phone on them, and it's ok. We also have security measures in place for crazy people. If they don't like the way I or one of my co-workers handle things we always have our managers talk to them...and so on. 90% of the time our bosses back us, sometimes not.

Had they followed the zoning laws set by their local government, this would be a non-issue. But they didn't. And now a neighbor is mad. See it all the time where I work....one mad neighbor can cause quite a problem. It's a matter of everyone's rights. People seem to be saying those who are having the meetings are having their rights trampled...but what about the neighbors rights? It's a double edged sword, the majority can not trample the rights of the minority and vice versa. Again all of this could be avoided if the zoning laws were followed (it's exactly what the LDS church does do, follows the local laws...i.e. see the new Temple in the Phoenix area). And if the people holding the bible study and church services did not like the zoning laws, go about changing them. It might take a while to get them changed or not, but follow the rules, do it right and make sure all the t's are crossed and i's dotted, especially if it's a Christian group. We have to set the example, do the work twice as good and be twice as up front and honest, simple as that...and be willing to be punished for it. Being a real Christian is never easy, never has been and if we think the rest of the world is going to cut a slack we are mistaken.

Whoa whoa whoa....I'm related to Eldar Holland. Learn something new every day.

I think our agency grows as we mature as spirits, just like it does with children. At 3 and 4 we let our kids dress themselves, sure they can choose to wear the purple socks with the orange shorts and lime green shirt...and think they are stylin'. But they still don't buy the clothes, we parents do. And as they grow up we take them shopping, they get to pick the clothes they wear within our guidelines and guidance. And finally they are able to go to the mall, pick our own clothes and not have parental supervision at all. This is what this life is...we are at the mall, we've been given the instructions (scriptures, ect.) but we are shopping all by ourselves, we can choose anything, it's all there. The trick is to choose wisely, so when we get home we can continue to grow and prove we are worthy of continuing to make wise choices. So, IMHO, we have been making choices for a long time, long before this life and I would guess since the moment we became Children of our Heavenly Father. And to me the choices we made in the pre-existance seem pretty cut and dried now, we made the correct choices if we are here. But that does not change the choices we make today right now, we can't just rely on our pre-existence choices and think they will carry us through, they won't. They can help guide us and inspire us, but right now we have a whole new set of choices, this life is about learning and growing via our choices. Some of us have to make the wrong choices to realize we need to make the right choices, but through the Atonement we can correct those choices.

The way I look at it is this....the very worst thing that can happen is a person an die in sin. That is the worst thing that can happen, because death comes to us all. If it's via a terrorist attack or old age or starving to death or a car accident...we all die. Some of us will die from not having been prepared, some of us will die even when being prepared, some of us will die horrible deaths, some of us will die in our sleep. However, 2,000 years ago, Christ won. So even if we die in sin, we can still be saved, even though it is much harder in the next life. It isn't my preparation of food storage, or even my temple work that leads me to not be afraid. It's my testimony in the Atonement. For without that, there is nothing.

She must have some really strong fingers, cause I get fake nails that are a short and they are heavy...I can't grow my own, too brittle due to health issues. She set a goal, accomplished it and is happy in her life...good for her. No foul, no harm.

http://http://lds.org/liahona/1995/05/our-strengths-can-become-our-downfall?lang=eng&query=tolerance

How does one who carries in church reconcile this scripture? I am just curious here, because I do carry, not in church, but it is pretty straight forward.

I would tell him, but only as disclosure in honesty of the past. The fact is you've repented, you are virtuous, your sins have been forgiven. He doesn't need to forgive you, you committed no sin against him at all. That is the power of forgiveness, and if he is the decent loving good man you say he is, it won't mean much at all to him. If he understands the power of the Atonment and that you are human and made mistakes in the past and really loves you...it won't matter and it shouldn't matter. God has forgiven you, you are in good standing with the church, you are virtuous now and have learned from your mistakes...that's all he should care about. If not, then perhaps he isn't the right choice for you.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Ben Franklin I'm like LM...Bring It. And they better bring their better angels because the worst they can do is kill me...and my better God won that war 2000 years ago. The only person stopping me from reaching heaven is me, I'm going to die regardless of how, my days are numbered...so if I die via a terrorist attack that's how I die. I refuse to spend my life scared of anyone else's false gods and their wonky beliefs.

As usual President Monson hit the nail square on the head with that article.

A righteous people will have a righteous government. The Devil, and he is real, gets in and destroys the people first, mostly by destroying the family sturcture. The government can't gain it's power or change laws unless the people let that happen...and if the people are apathetic it's much easier for him to do his job. He is very good at what he does, he doesn't need to topple governments or destroy constitutions, he simply does what he does...destroys families...and the rest will follow. He makes us think we have to have the big car the big house an over abundance of food, so dad and mom work and work and work, kids get the idea that they are entitled to all this stuff...and a few generations later we are where we are now. Satan didn't have to do anything but have Dad or Mom envy the neighbors new car. Simple point but that's how he works. He could give two rips about any government on this planet, he doesn't care one iota about them, his mission is simple, **** as many of our Father's children as possible, governments, media and everything else can be used as his tools...but the form of government, the type of media don't mean a thing to him, he just uses them to destroy us.

Having a CCL, and owning a gun, which I carried concealed when I can, I look at it this way....if a person asked me to not bring a gun into their house, I respect their rights and don't bring it into their house. The church is the Lords house, the church has asked us not to carry in the Lord's house...I respect that and I don't carry. If some nut job comes into the church and shoots me, killing me, at least I can say on the other side I was at church. Besides I actually believe D&C 122 about days being numbered, so if I die from a gun shot wound in church or if I have a heart attack in church, it was my day to die. Of course death be not proud, it comes to us all.

The way I see the Grace of the Atonement is like this. Take all the ordinances we do, temple, baptism, ect., do all of them, repeatedly and do them well, but they all mean nothing, not one dang thing, without the Atonement. The entire Plan of Salvation means nothing, can't be done, all that Joseph Smith did, all the Prophets and Apostles (old and new) mean diddly squat without the Atonement. There is no Book of Mormon or Bible, or any of the ordinances without the Atonement. Nothing. The Pharisees were amazingly good at keeping the works, did them with such vigor that they completely missed Christ when he was in their presents, they were so caught up in doing the works the condemned him. I think the diffrence between being truly converted to Christ and just being a member of the church is the acceptance and knowledge of the Atonement and it's completeness of everything, that everything relies on it alone. everything.