clwnuke

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  1. Like
    clwnuke reacted to pam in ThirdHour makes a video, apparently.   
    While I can appreciate your thoughts and opinions on this...I feel like sometimes we can take things a bit too seriously as well.  Sometimes we just have to lighten up and have some fun. That's what this was...just an attempt to have some fun.
  2. Like
    clwnuke reacted to pam in ThirdHour makes a video, apparently.   
    Yes they are as well as Ask Gramps.
  3. Like
    clwnuke reacted to NeuroTypical in ThirdHour makes a video, apparently.   
    I can hear the conversations now.
    "You spent how much on this?"
    "You make this thing, but you still won't fund NT's next trip to SLC?"
    (I hear these conversations because they're coming out of my mouth right now.  Not too shoddy, though!)
     
  4. Like
    clwnuke got a reaction from Vort in Thoughts on new Children and Youth Initiative?   
    As I listened to the 48-minute video it reminded me of why my wife and I decided to home-school.
    Both of us had been public schooled, but we wanted something different for our family. We called it: "Learning is a Lifestyle" and that became our philosophy and motto. Everywhere we went, and everything we did was an opportunity to learn. The classroom never ended. It was very successful and our children have grown into hard working well-rounded adults. Academically most of them earned full-ride scholarships to college so it worked well in that area too.
    If I were to name this new program I would call it "Gospel Learning is a Lifestyle" and it would have fit into our home learning philosophy perfectly. When our kids were young we would often have family home evening five, six, or seven days a week. The one thing we wanted was a home-based seminary program that we could use, but because we didn't live in a remote area the Church would not allow us to use the existing home curriculum for seminary.
    It seems to me that the natural extension of this new home-centered, church supported Gospel program would be making the seminary program home-based as well. It would be a major change but I guess we will see. I taught Seminary and I loved it, but it is definitely a major disruption to family life in the mornings.
    So, bottom-line is that I am super excited for this program because it fits perfectly into my views on life and education! 
  5. Like
    clwnuke reacted to Traveler in California Resolution 99 Anti-Religious Bigotry by government?   
    There is an old joke that starts out: "How many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb?"   The answer is - "One, but the light bulb has to want to change."
    Please forgive me if what follows sounds harsh - but your posts appears to be naive and full of what I believe are false assumptions.  The scientific definition of intelligence is the ability to learn and modify behavior.  As a species humans are considered a highly intelligent species.  Of course there are variations (bell curve) of individual intelligence within our human species but in general humans have the ability (programed) to learn and modify any cognitive behavior.   You mention a possible cure in the future.  The problem with what most think of in terms of a "cure" is that they think of something external to self that fixes (or cures) with minimal individual effort or commitment.  Human have the ability to override any cognitive inclination and replace it with whatever they would by the sheer power of intellectual reasoning and individual will.
    In addition there has been a great deal of research in to changing individual behaviors beginning with Pavlov and Skinner and even the dark arts of "brainwashing" by Joseph Goebbels.   Two points I would make - #1. is that outside stimulus can be utilized to modify a person's behavior - but point #2 - regardless of how much any behavior is triggered or stimulated by outside stimulus - intelligent humans can modify "conditioned" (acquired or learned) responses.  There is scientific research into what is called the lowest cognitive level of learning - we can even talk about several other cognitive levels of learning.  Once a cognitive learning cycle has taken place we may call the learned or acquired behavior a habit.   However, if habitual behavior is also rewarded with various chemicals within an individual (either natural through the brain releasing endorphins or the external induction of chemicals - we call the resulting behavior an addiction.   But even in the face of such learned or dependent responses - a intelligent person can force an intelligent override and create a self determined response - outside of previously acquired responses.
    The entire reason for the bill being given; is not because it is impossible for some LGBTQ person to be changed from such behaviors but rather; the bill is specific to an effort to legislate anyone from thinking that certain sexual behaviors are problematic for anyone.  But the legislation is awkward because it does not clearly define what is unacceptable sexual behavior or unacceptable influence over someone else's sexual behavior.  For example - the bill does not deal with someone that is LGBTQ trying to influence someone that is not LGBTQ from being talked into "trying" it - but it does try to influence anyone that is not LGBTQ from influencing someone that thinks they are LGBTQ from trying not to be LGBTQ.  The bill demonstrates that society is programed to deal unintelligently, irrationally and immorally with sexual behaviors.
     
    The Traveler
  6. Like
    clwnuke reacted to prisonchaplain in California Resolution 99 Anti-Religious Bigotry by government?   
    So, in a separate case, Chicago has prohibited Wheaton College students from passing out gospel literature and talking to people about religion at a public park. The city claims they are defending the First Amendment by restricting such activities to one section of the park out of 12. They claim evangelism is "soliciting." These kind of restrictions, if they spread, could effect LDS missionaries too.
     
  7. Like
    clwnuke reacted to prisonchaplain in California Resolution 99 Anti-Religious Bigotry by government?   
    The big deal is that Caesar has officially declared us homophobic. Candidates will say what they will. Likewise with pundits. Now a state government has taken this official stance. It may have no teeth, but the canary in the mine is beginning to pass out, in my always humble opinion.
  8. Like
    clwnuke reacted to prisonchaplain in California Resolution 99 Anti-Religious Bigotry by government?   
    California's State Assembly very recently passed Resolution 99, which condemns any efforts at 'conversion therapy' for LGBT folk. The tone and thrust of the resolution targets religious leaders, accusing them/us of bigotry. In essence government is passing resolutions condemning faith communities for the morals we practice within our church/ward/synagogue/mosque walls. In a similar vein, one of our two major political parties declared by formal resolution that religious liberty has been used to promote bigotry and homophobia. I'm not so bothered when pundits, commentators, liberals and progressives talk this way. However, when government formalizing hatred of particular Christian views, and when political parties believe they will win by opposing First Amendment freedoms...well, I hope I'm right about the Rapture.
    See the actual bill:  http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov
    Enter ACR99 in the Bill Number search engine.
  9. Like
    clwnuke reacted to dprh in What happened to church sports and stake dances?   
    Growing up, we had stake sports in Henderson.  But they stopped in the late 90's.  From what I hear it was because of pervasive unsportsmanlike conduct. 
    I liked the dances in Vegas.  They are still doing those, but it doesn't seem like they are as often.
  10. Like
    clwnuke got a reaction from dprh in What happened to church sports and stake dances?   
    I was in the Renton Stake as a youth in WA, and our stake had a Youth Dance Committee (YDC) comprised of a girl and boy from each ward. The stake had its own music collection and the YDC met with a High Counselor at least once a month (usually on a Saturday morning) to review new music that the youth suggested would be good to add to the collection. We listened to the music and the criteria were simple - it had to be clean, and it had to be a good fast dance song or a good slow dance song.
    Approved songs were added to the stake collection. This way the music played at dances stayed fresh and every song was a good dance song. Kids could request older music from the collection list and the Stake DJ (usually the High Counselor) would work it in if he could. Standard format was 2-3 fast songs, then a slow song. We always ended the night with a slow song.
    The YDC also had responsibility for reviewing the standards for updates (usually printed on the dance cards) and for manning the check-in table at the dances. If someone was inappropriately dressed it was the youth who told them, but we also maintained a collection of clothing that boys or girls could borrow to meet the standards. Girls wore dresses and men wore slacks, ties, and collared shirts. No tennis shoes were allowed but that was rarely an issue when people dressed up. People without a dance card could attend after a short YDC interview to review the standards if they had an escort with a card. Members and non-members could both have dance cards.
    Other policies that made the dances successful:
    1. Adults supervised the parking lot and cars. Nobody was allowed to hang-out in their cars or in the parking lot.
    2. There were adults assigned to sit next to every building entry/exit. There was only one way in and out.
    3. Adults roamed the halls and checked the rooms regularly. Areas were blocked off to reduce problems and wandering.
    4. Once you entered the dance, you had to stay. If you left for any "unapproved" reason, you were not allowed back in. The youth enforced the entry/exit rules.
    5. If anyone was dancing inappropriately it was a member of the YDC that spoke to them. Since they tended to be Laurels and Priests, kids were usually willing to heed their warnings.
    6. There were always good refreshments.
    7. It was consistent. You knew what to expect every time, and you got to know the adults who sometimes danced as well.
    As I've grown older I've come to recognize that President Jensen's dance policies were very wise and inspired. Every stake should have a Youth Dance Committee IMHO.
    PS: I remember one Saturday when a group of us decided to go up to the Bellevue Stake to attend one of their dances. When we got there we realized we were the only one's dressed up, and as we walked into the cultural hall we were surprised to find a live band playing Highway to Hell from AC/DC. Nobody was dancing and nobody seemed to care. We left and never came back .
  11. Like
    clwnuke got a reaction from Sunday21 in Why Women Don’t Wear Pants to Church   
    Thank you for sharing this experience. I wholeheartedly agree. When I was 14, my family was planning to move from Fremont, CA to Kent, WA in November. My dad had already been transferred and was living in a small travel trailer and flying home on the weekends or whenever he could. Then, on a Friday night in late August just before High School was to start on Monday my parents made the decision to have me return with my dad and start school in WA instead. I was told to pack and get ready to leave around 6:00AM in the morning (flying standby meant getting to SFO early).
    Just like that, and without any goodbyes to friends, my world turned upside down and I was gone from the place I was born and raised. Saturday was a blur of being introduced to living in the trailer in a small trailer park in a run down industrial area, and of course in the rain. My dad worked nights so I had to stay out of the trailer until he woke up and left for work. On Sunday morning I realized that I hadn't packed any Sunday clothes - and for the first and only time of my life I went alone to church in jeans, a t-shirt, and tennis shoes with holes in them. 
    Embarrassed, unkempt, and unknown I quietly sat down in the back and tried to be as invisible as possible. But to the credit of the Kent 1st Ward, adults and youth approached me after the meeting, introduced themselves, and welcomed me openly. I'll be forever grateful for the kindness and love they showed me when inside I was an angry and emotional mess that compounded the embarrassment that I felt. What a difference from the YW President in your story.
    The lesson?  To paraphrase Paul - though you wear Sunday clothes regularly and obediently and have not charity, you are nothing. I wear Sunday dress, even when I have to work on Sundays, but I don't care what anybody else wears - I only care that they are there.
    _______________________________________
    PS: I'll be forever grateful that my wife never wore panty hose! Good riddance to those horrible things. But there was a day not so long ago when people put guilt trips on women for not wearing them.
    "A collective high-pitched hallelujah likely went up recently among Mormon women when the LDS Church changed its policy to allow female employees in the church's Salt Lake City headquarters to forsake their pantyhose and go barelegged." SL Tribune May 12, 2011
  12. Like
    clwnuke reacted to Traveler in What happened to church sports and stake dances?   
    I was recently talking with my wife about your youth.  I do believe I grew up in perhaps the best time - ever.  The music was simple chord progressions so it was easy to learn, play and sing.  The lyrics were also simple and fun. Most of the dance steps required a partner that danced "with" you.  We use to fill out a dance card before the dance and the cool kids traded partners a lot.  Remember the song, "Save the last dance for me".  That is what you did for the special date - you did not dance all the dances - not even most but you would save the last dance for the one you liked most.  Dating was fun and social.  It is my personal impression that many adults in the church do not know how to be social with their spouses and other couples.  So almost all church activities cater to children rather than adults.
    There use to be Gold and Green Balls, Road Shows, church wide sports competition (with riverals between California and Utah teams), stake picnics and stake talent shows.  We also had Halloween treats that were mostly homemade without hidden razor blades.  It was not child abuse to allow grade school kids walk a mile on their own to school.  It was rare to find a kid from a broken home.  It was not a problem to take a gun to school and most kids knew how to handle firearms.  There were bullies in grade school but junior high and high school it was popular to be smart (get good grades and earn college scholarships) and kind.  I do not know where it came from in the movies - but where and when I grew up - the popular kids got along with everybody.  And joining the military was considered a good thing.
    It does seem to me that the cool kids now days talk back to parents (or anyone else with authority), dislike others that do not fit in with whatever click (political, religious, race, whatever preference or economic strata).  
    The church building was never locked - we use to sneak out a play basketball at 3:00 am or so.  I never remember my home being locked or ever coming home without my mom wanting to talk about what was going on.  I also knew that if I got into trouble (which happened a lot) I would be physically punished regardless of who started it.  The worst part about being in a fight was coming home and facing the music there.
    In all honesty it seems to me that we try so hard to make life better for kids now days and the result is more depression, fear and inability to solve simple problems.
     
    The Traveler
  13. Like
    clwnuke reacted to Fether in What happened to church sports and stake dances?   
    Not sure where you live, but I’m pretty confident the stakes in Utah still do these.
  14. Like
    clwnuke reacted to anatess2 in What happened to church sports and stake dances?   
    The stakes in Florida still have their dances and basketball - there's one for the youth and a different one for the single adults.  My kids don't attend them though - they can't stand the pop music being played in the dances and they don't like basketball.  They went to the stake youth dance once because one of their friends celebrated her birthday at the dance, so my husband and I went and volunteered to man the refreshment stand and the whole time one of my kids was hidden away at the RS room playing piano for a handful of kids and my other kid sat on the stage talking with other kids that didn't dance.  He did get up to dance a few times - he couldn't stand seeing some girl sitting by themselves on the sidelines so he decided to keep them company for a dance.  Anyway, it was very well organized.  But my sons were right... the music is terrible!
  15. Like
    clwnuke reacted to Fether in What happened to church sports and stake dances?   
    I loved stake dances and in my stake... EVERYONE danced, particularly when the slow songs played. Everyone had a sizable tool kit of line dances, and knew how to do basic waltz. And we were all pretty good at tell the DJ to change the song when it was immoral. I would often visit other dances i different stakes with friends of mine in SLC and they all had different feels.
    my wife went to a stake dance to chaperone while we lived in Vegas and was completely blown away by how much immoral  music was being played. 
    Everywhere is different and carries different cultures.
  16. Like
    clwnuke reacted to Maureen in What happened to church sports and stake dances?   
    I was introduced to your Church because of these dances. And it wasn't because of standards and supervision, it was because they were fun and the kids that attended them were fun. Although I did like that etiquette of the boys asking the girls to dance holding out their arms. And back in the '70s, the music was fun and jiving was still a big thing at Church dances. And then there were the after dance socializing at Boston Pizza or *A&W, or someone would have the brilliant idea to TP someone's house. Good times.
    *Not sure if some are familiar with A&W back in the '70s, but it was a fast food place with Papa, Mama, Teen and Baby burgers and root beer. You order in your car and the food is brought out to you with the tray of food attached to the driver's door window. And the popular beverages at the time were called brown cow (milk and root beer) or swamp water (all the flavours of pop mixed together except for coke or pepsi because they were not allowed 😊). Now a days A&W is no longer set up that way. ☹
    M.
  17. Like
    clwnuke got a reaction from Suzie in Why Women Don’t Wear Pants to Church   
    Thank you for sharing this experience. I wholeheartedly agree. When I was 14, my family was planning to move from Fremont, CA to Kent, WA in November. My dad had already been transferred and was living in a small travel trailer and flying home on the weekends or whenever he could. Then, on a Friday night in late August just before High School was to start on Monday my parents made the decision to have me return with my dad and start school in WA instead. I was told to pack and get ready to leave around 6:00AM in the morning (flying standby meant getting to SFO early).
    Just like that, and without any goodbyes to friends, my world turned upside down and I was gone from the place I was born and raised. Saturday was a blur of being introduced to living in the trailer in a small trailer park in a run down industrial area, and of course in the rain. My dad worked nights so I had to stay out of the trailer until he woke up and left for work. On Sunday morning I realized that I hadn't packed any Sunday clothes - and for the first and only time of my life I went alone to church in jeans, a t-shirt, and tennis shoes with holes in them. 
    Embarrassed, unkempt, and unknown I quietly sat down in the back and tried to be as invisible as possible. But to the credit of the Kent 1st Ward, adults and youth approached me after the meeting, introduced themselves, and welcomed me openly. I'll be forever grateful for the kindness and love they showed me when inside I was an angry and emotional mess that compounded the embarrassment that I felt. What a difference from the YW President in your story.
    The lesson?  To paraphrase Paul - though you wear Sunday clothes regularly and obediently and have not charity, you are nothing. I wear Sunday dress, even when I have to work on Sundays, but I don't care what anybody else wears - I only care that they are there.
    _______________________________________
    PS: I'll be forever grateful that my wife never wore panty hose! Good riddance to those horrible things. But there was a day not so long ago when people put guilt trips on women for not wearing them.
    "A collective high-pitched hallelujah likely went up recently among Mormon women when the LDS Church changed its policy to allow female employees in the church's Salt Lake City headquarters to forsake their pantyhose and go barelegged." SL Tribune May 12, 2011
  18. Like
    clwnuke got a reaction from Maureen in What happened to church sports and stake dances?   
    As I was working my night shift I found myself reminiscing about the great times we had playing church basketball, softball, and volleyball, as well as the bi-weekly stake dances (with Farrells ice cream afterwards ). It seems a shame that youth don't seem to get those same socializing and missionary opportunities now.
    I occasionally see a tri-stake dance every three months or so now in my current region, but that could never replace the regular and well organized dances I went to as a teen in the San Francisco Bay Area and in the Seattle region. Non-members were more than glad to dress up and keep the standards. In fact the church dances were more popular and better attended than the school dances - probably because of the standards and supervision.  It's such a shame. I've always wondered what changed or do leaders just not know how to organize sports and dances anymore?
  19. Like
    clwnuke got a reaction from Maureen in Why Women Don’t Wear Pants to Church   
    Thank you for sharing this experience. I wholeheartedly agree. When I was 14, my family was planning to move from Fremont, CA to Kent, WA in November. My dad had already been transferred and was living in a small travel trailer and flying home on the weekends or whenever he could. Then, on a Friday night in late August just before High School was to start on Monday my parents made the decision to have me return with my dad and start school in WA instead. I was told to pack and get ready to leave around 6:00AM in the morning (flying standby meant getting to SFO early).
    Just like that, and without any goodbyes to friends, my world turned upside down and I was gone from the place I was born and raised. Saturday was a blur of being introduced to living in the trailer in a small trailer park in a run down industrial area, and of course in the rain. My dad worked nights so I had to stay out of the trailer until he woke up and left for work. On Sunday morning I realized that I hadn't packed any Sunday clothes - and for the first and only time of my life I went alone to church in jeans, a t-shirt, and tennis shoes with holes in them. 
    Embarrassed, unkempt, and unknown I quietly sat down in the back and tried to be as invisible as possible. But to the credit of the Kent 1st Ward, adults and youth approached me after the meeting, introduced themselves, and welcomed me openly. I'll be forever grateful for the kindness and love they showed me when inside I was an angry and emotional mess that compounded the embarrassment that I felt. What a difference from the YW President in your story.
    The lesson?  To paraphrase Paul - though you wear Sunday clothes regularly and obediently and have not charity, you are nothing. I wear Sunday dress, even when I have to work on Sundays, but I don't care what anybody else wears - I only care that they are there.
    _______________________________________
    PS: I'll be forever grateful that my wife never wore panty hose! Good riddance to those horrible things. But there was a day not so long ago when people put guilt trips on women for not wearing them.
    "A collective high-pitched hallelujah likely went up recently among Mormon women when the LDS Church changed its policy to allow female employees in the church's Salt Lake City headquarters to forsake their pantyhose and go barelegged." SL Tribune May 12, 2011
  20. Like
    clwnuke got a reaction from dprh in Why Women Don’t Wear Pants to Church   
    Thank you for sharing this experience. I wholeheartedly agree. When I was 14, my family was planning to move from Fremont, CA to Kent, WA in November. My dad had already been transferred and was living in a small travel trailer and flying home on the weekends or whenever he could. Then, on a Friday night in late August just before High School was to start on Monday my parents made the decision to have me return with my dad and start school in WA instead. I was told to pack and get ready to leave around 6:00AM in the morning (flying standby meant getting to SFO early).
    Just like that, and without any goodbyes to friends, my world turned upside down and I was gone from the place I was born and raised. Saturday was a blur of being introduced to living in the trailer in a small trailer park in a run down industrial area, and of course in the rain. My dad worked nights so I had to stay out of the trailer until he woke up and left for work. On Sunday morning I realized that I hadn't packed any Sunday clothes - and for the first and only time of my life I went alone to church in jeans, a t-shirt, and tennis shoes with holes in them. 
    Embarrassed, unkempt, and unknown I quietly sat down in the back and tried to be as invisible as possible. But to the credit of the Kent 1st Ward, adults and youth approached me after the meeting, introduced themselves, and welcomed me openly. I'll be forever grateful for the kindness and love they showed me when inside I was an angry and emotional mess that compounded the embarrassment that I felt. What a difference from the YW President in your story.
    The lesson?  To paraphrase Paul - though you wear Sunday clothes regularly and obediently and have not charity, you are nothing. I wear Sunday dress, even when I have to work on Sundays, but I don't care what anybody else wears - I only care that they are there.
    _______________________________________
    PS: I'll be forever grateful that my wife never wore panty hose! Good riddance to those horrible things. But there was a day not so long ago when people put guilt trips on women for not wearing them.
    "A collective high-pitched hallelujah likely went up recently among Mormon women when the LDS Church changed its policy to allow female employees in the church's Salt Lake City headquarters to forsake their pantyhose and go barelegged." SL Tribune May 12, 2011
  21. Like
    clwnuke got a reaction from Just_A_Guy in Why Women Don’t Wear Pants to Church   
    Thank you for sharing this experience. I wholeheartedly agree. When I was 14, my family was planning to move from Fremont, CA to Kent, WA in November. My dad had already been transferred and was living in a small travel trailer and flying home on the weekends or whenever he could. Then, on a Friday night in late August just before High School was to start on Monday my parents made the decision to have me return with my dad and start school in WA instead. I was told to pack and get ready to leave around 6:00AM in the morning (flying standby meant getting to SFO early).
    Just like that, and without any goodbyes to friends, my world turned upside down and I was gone from the place I was born and raised. Saturday was a blur of being introduced to living in the trailer in a small trailer park in a run down industrial area, and of course in the rain. My dad worked nights so I had to stay out of the trailer until he woke up and left for work. On Sunday morning I realized that I hadn't packed any Sunday clothes - and for the first and only time of my life I went alone to church in jeans, a t-shirt, and tennis shoes with holes in them. 
    Embarrassed, unkempt, and unknown I quietly sat down in the back and tried to be as invisible as possible. But to the credit of the Kent 1st Ward, adults and youth approached me after the meeting, introduced themselves, and welcomed me openly. I'll be forever grateful for the kindness and love they showed me when inside I was an angry and emotional mess that compounded the embarrassment that I felt. What a difference from the YW President in your story.
    The lesson?  To paraphrase Paul - though you wear Sunday clothes regularly and obediently and have not charity, you are nothing. I wear Sunday dress, even when I have to work on Sundays, but I don't care what anybody else wears - I only care that they are there.
    _______________________________________
    PS: I'll be forever grateful that my wife never wore panty hose! Good riddance to those horrible things. But there was a day not so long ago when people put guilt trips on women for not wearing them.
    "A collective high-pitched hallelujah likely went up recently among Mormon women when the LDS Church changed its policy to allow female employees in the church's Salt Lake City headquarters to forsake their pantyhose and go barelegged." SL Tribune May 12, 2011
  22. Like
    clwnuke reacted to Suzie in Why Women Don’t Wear Pants to Church   
    When I was a young woman (between 12 and 14), I received a phone call asking me if I could offer the opening prayer in a stake activity (I don't recall if it was a YW activity, seminary or something else). However, I was beyond excited... it was such a big deal to me. I was young, insecure and I remember my innocent self even "planning" for days what I would say in my prayer, I didn't want to mess up. I decided to wear dress pants for this activity (no jeans), I loved those pants because they made me look all grown up so when the day arrived, I remember reaching early because I couldn't contain the excitement. I was asked to sit down near the front, I took a program and my sister and I sat together... you could have seen my smile from miles away!
    Life at home was difficult and Church was for me an oasis where I found solace and acceptance so the fact that the "Church" chose ME (insignificant me in my view at that time) to offer a prayer during a stake activity meant the world to me...  I remember opening the program and seeing my name printed on it and I couldn't believe it. When the meeting started, I heard my name being called to offer the prayer. I remember that it took me forever to reach the podium because I was so nervous... and when I reached and I'm about to offer the prayer, the Stake YW president stopped me and said: "Suzie, you cannot offer the prayer. You are wearing pants."  and then signed for me to leave the podium and choose someone else to offer the prayer. I remember going back to my seat completely embarrassed by the "looks" I was getting from everyone there and deeply sad knowing that God doesn't accept prayers from people like me. I wondered what I did so wrong... because I always did something wrong. I remember the prayer being said but... my eyes were not closed. I was quietly crying and my eyes were looking at my name in that program and wondering about pants...
    I type this and I have to be honest... I have to stop because I'm overcome with the same emotion I felt many years ago. It wasn't just a simple prayer for me... this experience CHANGED everything. Over the years, it became a VERY powerful lesson in my life about acceptance, about looking beyond the exterior...being less preoccupied about shirt colors, beards or tattoos and more concerned about cultivating a kind heart that can make people feel truly loved and accepted in Christ's Church...  I am just HAPPY to see people coming to Church with whatever they have.... partaking of the sacrament and doing the best they can.
    I don't want anyone coming to Church and feel like I did that day...
    I want everyone to feel accepted, knowing that no matter what they are wearing God listens to their prayers. "for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart."
    Even when they are wearing pants...
  23. Like
    clwnuke got a reaction from seashmore in Fates worse than death   
    Eternum, may I ask what official clinical diagnoses you've been given by medical professionals? Also, I notice that there is no mention of drugs or alcohol in your post. Are you free from these habits?
    In all my years of working in the Church, whether in downtown Camden, NJ or in SLC, UT, and in working with small poverty-stricken branches and large very wealthy wards, I have never seen the members and leaders act as badly as you describe. Problems, yes. Rampant and methodically organized bullying, no, not ever. But I have worked with people who saw it that way - and most of them could have written your story and described their lives as "going upside down and sideways" just like you.
    I echo Jane_Doe's comments above: A good therapist is a good thing. You need help. Create some circumstances in your life that provide some stability and begin getting some help. And stick to it without excuses because it may take years to make progress. But you can make progress. And when you do, you may see the things a little differently. It always starts with fixing ourselves, not others.
    May the Lord strengthen you in your difficult journey.
  24. Like
    clwnuke got a reaction from Fifthziff in And they all found joy and peace   
    I knew eventually this topic might come up when I saw the articles. I have worked with great people who are gay, but I have two concerns:
    1. Why is this news? Is it going to be front page news every time somebody announces a sexually oriented change in their life? Some matters are left private.
    2. It sorrows me that so many people associate being "true" to themselves with their physical nature and not their spiritual nature.  Being true to yourself is recognizing that your body is just a shell and that the "true" you is an eternal spirit son or daughter of God.
    I am sympathetic to the difficult situation a person with same-sex attraction endures, but I see it as no different from the situations for many wonderful single members of the church who never marry in this life for various reasons. They have physical desires that they long to fulfill, but they can't without offending God.
    The "acceptance" line of reasoning being used by so many people announcing they are coming out also troubles me.  If heterosexual men and women followed that same pattern of reasoning, most would have to say that they can no longer accept being in monogamous marriages because God made them with physical desires for more than one man or more than one woman, and they need to be true and accept their natures. To me this is a false doctrine that substitutes God-given physical desires for God-given commandments.  Carnal desires are not commandments, and following them outside the law of chastity can only lead to unhappiness in the eternities.
     
  25. Like
    clwnuke got a reaction from Midwest LDS in And they all found joy and peace   
    I knew eventually this topic might come up when I saw the articles. I have worked with great people who are gay, but I have two concerns:
    1. Why is this news? Is it going to be front page news every time somebody announces a sexually oriented change in their life? Some matters are left private.
    2. It sorrows me that so many people associate being "true" to themselves with their physical nature and not their spiritual nature.  Being true to yourself is recognizing that your body is just a shell and that the "true" you is an eternal spirit son or daughter of God.
    I am sympathetic to the difficult situation a person with same-sex attraction endures, but I see it as no different from the situations for many wonderful single members of the church who never marry in this life for various reasons. They have physical desires that they long to fulfill, but they can't without offending God.
    The "acceptance" line of reasoning being used by so many people announcing they are coming out also troubles me.  If heterosexual men and women followed that same pattern of reasoning, most would have to say that they can no longer accept being in monogamous marriages because God made them with physical desires for more than one man or more than one woman, and they need to be true and accept their natures. To me this is a false doctrine that substitutes God-given physical desires for God-given commandments.  Carnal desires are not commandments, and following them outside the law of chastity can only lead to unhappiness in the eternities.