clwnuke

Sometimes when people pass on to the next life it is viewed as a painful and unexpected experience. But sometimes when people pass on to the next life it is viewed as a great blessing because they were suffering so much.
 
Divorce is often the same way. I always hope that marriages can be healed, but if moving on to a new life is necessary to relieve the suffering then I hope for a cordial passing to that phase.
 
May God be with you!

I don't disagree with you about marital challenges in general being a joint problem.  But pornography is just so hurtful to the spouse, that I think--on the condition that other resources (groups, accountability partners, possibly therapists) are available--that the less the spouse is thrust into that caretaker role, the better off everyone is.
 
The other thing I would note, with regard to your experience with eating disorders, is that this is something that you yourself recognized; and then you invited your husband to come in and to be a partner with you.  That's an awesome dynamic; but it would be a very different dynamic if you and your husband had never talked about it and one day you just learned, out of the blue, that the reason he's been so great about doing dishes for the last six months is that he's been surreptitiously logging your leftovers with a food scale and a measuring cup.  :)

Frankly, I'm appalled at your friends' behavior. What kind of woman reveals to her friends her husband's struggles with something like pornography?
 
This is a betrayal of the marriage covenant, and in my opinion it shows what kind of people your friends are. You should ignore anything they say, and not give their concerns another passing thought. You and your husband are happy. Stay that way.

My sisters Ward is Newly Married - Nearly Dead aka seniors, empty nesters and the the newly married. This also includes those who live near the University of Washington. One young couple, new converts of barely a year were quite different. They wore mostly black, dark purple clothing. She wore tie up the calves heavy soled black boots and the only splash of color would be a beanie/railroad/or short brimmed hat and or a scarf in wild colors. He only wore black. Oh, and she never wore a dress or a skirt. They were pierced: one on the side of the nose, both eyebrows, and from the lobes of their ears and then marching up the side of each ear. They wore rings on every finger too. You never knew what color hair they would have and they both had *butchered* cuts. They just took a swath of hair and cut it to whatever length struck them - all over their heads. Not a swath would be the same length. 
 
The first time I saw them was a week before Christmas and they were wearing a tree light bulb fashioned into an earring. Different color to each ear. 
 
My sister said, after introducing them to me and they had gone in to sit in the Chapel: They dance to the same drummer and the same tune, as us - just a bit different beat.
 
When they had their first child, the face jewelry came out and by the time their third baby was born so had all the extra ear jewelry. My sister says their still wear the same style clothes and the beat of their *music* hasn't changed at all. They moved into the *Family* ward in the same Stake when baby #1 was ready for Nursery.
 
Our Branch has several members who also * Dance* to the same drummer, yet their *beat* is different than the norm. As soon as I can find a seamstress - my *beat* is going to change a wee bit too. I will forgo the dresses and skirts of the *normal* woman and start wearing super wide legged slacks. I am so very tired of the cold wind often times mixed with rain, blowing up my skirts - no matter that the hem length reaches my ankles! 

I am sorry for your pain. For whatever consolation it might provide, divorcing without children is about ten thousand times less ugly and painful than divorcing with children. If there is getting out to be done, now is the time to do it.

I think we can all understand your feelings.
 
The reality is that the Lord already knows and if He were to appear in your room and discuss it with you I'm sure He would put His arms around you and express his deep Love for you, tell you that everything will be fine, encourage you to go forth and sin no more, and then counsel you to meet with your Bishop so that the Holy Ghost can truly be your constant companion on your mission.  
 
The Bishop is His servant and the Bishop's calling is to help you be worthy of all the Lord has to bless you with. He will not be disappointed in you, but will rejoice that you came forward with a broken heart and contrite spirit. It is the right thing to do.
 
The funny thing is that we often fear the reaction of the Bishop, our parents, or our friends more than God. God wants to forgive you, He loves you. He has already suffered to pay for the sins you've committed, He earnestly desires for you to take advantage of His Priesthood authority through the Bishop's administration.
 
Confessing to your Bishop is the wonderful way to "confess to God directly" and receive the Lord's personal revelation for you at this time. Don't delay, it's a blessing waiting to happen!

Meh . . . not really.  The primary impetus for the modern practice is a subsequent instruction given by a Prophet, Seer and Revelator--namely, Joseph Fielding Smith--who in 1946 taught that [w]hile the authorities of the Church have ruled that it is permissible, under certain conditions and with the approval of the priesthood, for sisters to wash and anoint other sisters, yet they feel that it is far better for us to follow the plan the Lord has given us and send for the Elders of the Church to come and administer to the sick and afflicted." 
 
I've seen some purportedly "feminist" writers suggest that the earlier practice was actually the correct way of doing things; but that LDS women lost this prerogative as some sort of punishment because they were somehow unworthy or intellectually lazy or insufficiently hostile to The Patriarchy™.  If you want to make that argument, knock yourself out--but ironically, the only viable solution to resolving this purported state of condemnation is by doing precisely what the Church already teaches:  Keep your covenants, seek the Spirit, and stay close to the leadership of the Church.

Men prefer blonde software programs  :)

Great answer and to an individual of a christian faith it makes sense. 
 
The hurdle that we have to jump as LDS is the hurdle of faith, and no one do that for someone else. We have had this discussion various times about when are a prophets words scripture etc, bottom line we accept them as prophets so we lean heavily on what they say and take it on faith that they are speaking for the Lord.
 
Physically/proof- canonized scripture and official declarations approved by the first presidency, concurrence of the 12, and sustained by the body of the church. This has happened 6x in our history.
 
1830, Bible and Book of Mormon were officially accepted with the organization of the Church 1835, Doctrine and Covenants, first 103 sections were officially accepted 1880, Doctrine and Covenants additional 32 sections were accepted along with the Pearl of Great Price 1890, Polygamy was repealed (Official Declaration, p. 291) 1976, D&C sections 137 & 138 were officially accepted 1978, The priesthood was made available to all worthy males regardless of race (Official Declaration 2, p. 292) Last official "scripture" 1978
 
Like I said earlier very cavalierly everything else is just good advice. I say this with my tongue in my cheek because we do believe that they pass Gods will to us, however it is not scripture in the most strict definition of it.

One fast way to tell if something is or isn't official is, believe it or not, to check the copyright information. 
 
If something is officially sanctioned by the church, then the copyright will list either "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" or "Intellectual Reserve" as the copyright holder.
 
If you see any other name listed, then it's not sanctioned.
 
I've had to explain this to many, many people because of how often critics of the church go straight for unofficial sources and then wield them like clubs.  

We discern who and who is not a prophet by the Spirit. Having a testimony of Jesus means you are a prophet or prophetess. Anyone can fill this role.
 
 
 
 
To know who is speaking by the Spirit of prophecy or as is stated otherwise in the scriptures, the Spirit of truth, does not depend on who is speaking, where they are speaking, when they are speaking, how they are speaking, or even what they are saying. To know requires that one have the Spirit of prophecy or Spirit of truth themselves. So, the only way we can know when a prophet is speaking as a prophet is when we also have the Spirit of truth:
 
 
 
Prophets preach the word of truth by the Spirit of truth and if they don't preach it by the Spirit of truth, I don't care what it is, it is not of God! Conversely, those who receive the preaching must receive the preaching also by the Spirit of truth. If they don't receive it by the Spirit of truth, it is not of God, I don't care what it is!
 
-Finrock

The trouble is that there is no hard-and-fast set of rules for this sort of thing.  Fundamentally it does boil down to the Holy Spirit.  See, e.g., D&C 68:4, D&C 21:4; D&C 50:21-22.  That, to my mind, is at least part of what Joseph Smith meant when he explained to President Van Buren that Mormonism "differed [from other religions of the day] in mode of baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. We considered that all other considerations were contained in the gift of the Holy Ghost."

If the person you're talking to is legally minded, the concept of dicta may be a useful analogue.
Or, more colloquially--the guy answering phones at the DMV. I *expect* to be able to rely on his advice if I want to qualify for a driver's license. I *might* be able to rely on his advice if I ask for driving directions to the nearest branch office, and I will at least consider his advice if I am seeking to renew my car registration even though technically that's a different state agency involved. But if he weighs in on how to record a land deed, or the best way to barbecue ribs--well, the perspective is nice; but I'm not going to get twisted up in knots if he turns out to be wrong on those issues; because that's not his job.

While serving as High Priest Group Leader when I was about forty, I had a situation where a Bishopric counselor in my ward was difficult to home teach. Even his father-in-law requested not to teach him. Our families had been good friends earlier and I had home taught them years before so in a bit of desperation I placed them on to my already full HT route. Funny thing was, no matter how hard I tried I couldn't get him to set an appointment with me.
 
After several months I finally cornered him and asked him point-blank what was going on? We went to a private room where he was very embarrassed to say that his spouse thought I was interested in her, and though he didn't think it was true he was having to avoid me for her sake. Of all the reasons I had imagined for how I had offended his family, that one completely blind-sided me!
 
I diplomatically assured him that while his wife was very beautiful there was absolutely no reason for concern. I then went to the Bishop and asked him if he knew about this. He did, but he had never approached me on it because he knew there was no substance to the concern. However, I was ignorant to the damage that had already been done. For some months I had noticed people treating me strangely and now I found out that many people besides the Bishop and the Stake President had heard the gossip.
 
I went home, told my wife, and tried to be as loving toward the other couple as possible, but then it hit me. I began to feel intense anger, resentment, and frustration that my church reputation had been destroyed by a false accusation. It was almost impossible to shake off. I found myself getting ready to angrily confront my former friends when I felt the Holy Spirit clearly tell me to stop and not to confront them as it would do harm to the other couple. The Spirit said that I did not know what personal difficulties they were having in their marriage and to forgive his spouse. This was very, very difficult for me to do, but I heeded the prompting and never discussed the matter again except with my wife.
 
The long and short of this story is that only a few people ever treated me the same after that. Perhaps they never heard the gossip, but it was always clear to me that many former friends and church colleagues kept me at a distance from the previous callings I had held. My family eventually moved out of the area a few years later, but it remains a lesson to me that gossip is a sharp knife. 
 
You are right Char713, it is hard when people do not make you feel welcome. But do your best to forgive them and stay faithful. The Lord is mindful of the many harms caused by imperfect people in His perfect gospel plan. Some of the people in the great and spacious building still go to church every Sunday.

I find this statement interesting and worthy of exploration. It is also crucial to any couple working through any number of issues that may or may not involve sexual matters to face this question:
 
Why was the marriage fractured? Is it truly because of the husband's habit of viewing sexual images/content, or are marriages fractured by how we react to issues and difficulties that arise? 

LOL. Yeah, if she's holding your pants, I'd say that's a sign.

A woman talking around about her husband's pornography addiction forever ruins his reputation and ability to interact with those people whom she tells. It is a profound betrayal. I cannot believe you can't see that.
 
What's she going to talk about, anyway? "Oh, boo-hoo, my husband looks at pictures of nekkid women. He's so awful! How could he do that to me?" "There, there, you poor thing. He's a worthless cad. You deserve better."
 
What good is going to come of complaining to a friend? Is the friend going to resolve the husband's porn usage? Is she going to build him into a better man? Is she going to create a situation where he can move past such undisciplined, selfish actions and get control of his own soul?
 
You may be right, and I may be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. But saying "Well, duh!" or "My husband agrees with me, so there!" does not establish your case. How is telling others about a spouse's pornography usage Christ-like? How does it bring either the teller or the spouse unto Christ? Is that what God does with us -- spread around our foibles and foolishness so that we're ashamed to look another person in the eye?

A betrayal certainly, not maybe, and on the same order as looking at porn. Arguably worse. To tell deeply personal things about one's spouse to others whose business it is not is a deep betrayal indeed. I am surprised that anyone would attempt to defend or justify such an action.
  Nope. I understand your argument, but I don't buy it. Some things you don't tell. You keep your mouth shut. You do not expose the weaknesses and foolishness of your spouse. You do not so cruelly expose someone you claim to love.  
I don't know why you would make such an accusation toward me, Eowyn. I like women just fine, even those I'm not married to. I think they're wonderful That does not mean I have to approve of ghastly actions of betrayal.

I am appalled that she is talking to you about such a matter. Shame on her. What can she be thinking? That is perhaps as great a betrayal of their marital covenant as is his pornography usage.

While serving as High Priest Group Leader when I was about forty, I had a situation where a Bishopric counselor in my ward was difficult to home teach. Even his father-in-law requested not to teach him. Our families had been good friends earlier and I had home taught them years before so in a bit of desperation I placed them on to my already full HT route. Funny thing was, no matter how hard I tried I couldn't get him to set an appointment with me.
 
After several months I finally cornered him and asked him point-blank what was going on? We went to a private room where he was very embarrassed to say that his spouse thought I was interested in her, and though he didn't think it was true he was having to avoid me for her sake. Of all the reasons I had imagined for how I had offended his family, that one completely blind-sided me!
 
I diplomatically assured him that while his wife was very beautiful there was absolutely no reason for concern. I then went to the Bishop and asked him if he knew about this. He did, but he had never approached me on it because he knew there was no substance to the concern. However, I was ignorant to the damage that had already been done. For some months I had noticed people treating me strangely and now I found out that many people besides the Bishop and the Stake President had heard the gossip.
 
I went home, told my wife, and tried to be as loving toward the other couple as possible, but then it hit me. I began to feel intense anger, resentment, and frustration that my church reputation had been destroyed by a false accusation. It was almost impossible to shake off. I found myself getting ready to angrily confront my former friends when I felt the Holy Spirit clearly tell me to stop and not to confront them as it would do harm to the other couple. The Spirit said that I did not know what personal difficulties they were having in their marriage and to forgive his spouse. This was very, very difficult for me to do, but I heeded the prompting and never discussed the matter again except with my wife.
 
The long and short of this story is that only a few people ever treated me the same after that. Perhaps they never heard the gossip, but it was always clear to me that many former friends and church colleagues kept me at a distance from the previous callings I had held. My family eventually moved out of the area a few years later, but it remains a lesson to me that gossip is a sharp knife. 
 
You are right Char713, it is hard when people do not make you feel welcome. But do your best to forgive them and stay faithful. The Lord is mindful of the many harms caused by imperfect people in His perfect gospel plan. Some of the people in the great and spacious building still go to church every Sunday.

While serving as High Priest Group Leader when I was about forty, I had a situation where a Bishopric counselor in my ward was difficult to home teach. Even his father-in-law requested not to teach him. Our families had been good friends earlier and I had home taught them years before so in a bit of desperation I placed them on to my already full HT route. Funny thing was, no matter how hard I tried I couldn't get him to set an appointment with me.
 
After several months I finally cornered him and asked him point-blank what was going on? We went to a private room where he was very embarrassed to say that his spouse thought I was interested in her, and though he didn't think it was true he was having to avoid me for her sake. Of all the reasons I had imagined for how I had offended his family, that one completely blind-sided me!
 
I diplomatically assured him that while his wife was very beautiful there was absolutely no reason for concern. I then went to the Bishop and asked him if he knew about this. He did, but he had never approached me on it because he knew there was no substance to the concern. However, I was ignorant to the damage that had already been done. For some months I had noticed people treating me strangely and now I found out that many people besides the Bishop and the Stake President had heard the gossip.
 
I went home, told my wife, and tried to be as loving toward the other couple as possible, but then it hit me. I began to feel intense anger, resentment, and frustration that my church reputation had been destroyed by a false accusation. It was almost impossible to shake off. I found myself getting ready to angrily confront my former friends when I felt the Holy Spirit clearly tell me to stop and not to confront them as it would do harm to the other couple. The Spirit said that I did not know what personal difficulties they were having in their marriage and to forgive his spouse. This was very, very difficult for me to do, but I heeded the prompting and never discussed the matter again except with my wife.
 
The long and short of this story is that only a few people ever treated me the same after that. Perhaps they never heard the gossip, but it was always clear to me that many former friends and church colleagues kept me at a distance from the previous callings I had held. My family eventually moved out of the area a few years later, but it remains a lesson to me that gossip is a sharp knife. 
 
You are right Char713, it is hard when people do not make you feel welcome. But do your best to forgive them and stay faithful. The Lord is mindful of the many harms caused by imperfect people in His perfect gospel plan. Some of the people in the great and spacious building still go to church every Sunday.

While serving as High Priest Group Leader when I was about forty, I had a situation where a Bishopric counselor in my ward was difficult to home teach. Even his father-in-law requested not to teach him. Our families had been good friends earlier and I had home taught them years before so in a bit of desperation I placed them on to my already full HT route. Funny thing was, no matter how hard I tried I couldn't get him to set an appointment with me.
 
After several months I finally cornered him and asked him point-blank what was going on? We went to a private room where he was very embarrassed to say that his spouse thought I was interested in her, and though he didn't think it was true he was having to avoid me for her sake. Of all the reasons I had imagined for how I had offended his family, that one completely blind-sided me!
 
I diplomatically assured him that while his wife was very beautiful there was absolutely no reason for concern. I then went to the Bishop and asked him if he knew about this. He did, but he had never approached me on it because he knew there was no substance to the concern. However, I was ignorant to the damage that had already been done. For some months I had noticed people treating me strangely and now I found out that many people besides the Bishop and the Stake President had heard the gossip.
 
I went home, told my wife, and tried to be as loving toward the other couple as possible, but then it hit me. I began to feel intense anger, resentment, and frustration that my church reputation had been destroyed by a false accusation. It was almost impossible to shake off. I found myself getting ready to angrily confront my former friends when I felt the Holy Spirit clearly tell me to stop and not to confront them as it would do harm to the other couple. The Spirit said that I did not know what personal difficulties they were having in their marriage and to forgive his spouse. This was very, very difficult for me to do, but I heeded the prompting and never discussed the matter again except with my wife.
 
The long and short of this story is that only a few people ever treated me the same after that. Perhaps they never heard the gossip, but it was always clear to me that many former friends and church colleagues kept me at a distance from the previous callings I had held. My family eventually moved out of the area a few years later, but it remains a lesson to me that gossip is a sharp knife. 
 
You are right Char713, it is hard when people do not make you feel welcome. But do your best to forgive them and stay faithful. The Lord is mindful of the many harms caused by imperfect people in His perfect gospel plan. Some of the people in the great and spacious building still go to church every Sunday.

I don't believe I've ever used the term three-ring circus... But the point, I believe, in whatever I did actually say, is that whether one insinuates such or not, the result is the result.
 
I do not disagree with the sensitivity idea, and I do not claim to be guiltless in offending others when I shouldn't. But there's a difference in being careful about how you say things and not saying them at all. If this is to your point, then we actually agree.
 
Where I think we disagree is in the idea of everyone being comfortable or without burden at church. I cannot tell you how many times I've had to humble myself, forgive and forget, and press forward with faith in spite of others. And this is true of anyone. People are people, and they are imperfect, rude, unkind, inconsiderate, selfish jerks. Even the best, most righteous have their moments. I simply cannot get around the idea that making everyone perfect in their behavior towards others is the solution, because it's a nice pipe-dream but it's impossible. People are going to hurt others feelings. Sometimes that's the fault of the person offending, sometimes the fault of the offended. But it will happen. Again and again and again. It happens everywhere -- work, church, friends, family. People are imperfect and they inadvertently hurt others. The solution isn't to try and get the whole world to be not only perfectly kind, but learn perfect empathy, and a level of mind-reading so they say just the right thing to everyone they interact with. The solution is to advocate, one-on-one, with those offended, to learn how to not be offended.
 
The reality of making the fifteen-million+ membership of the church never offend anyone is simply unrealistic -- beyond unrealistic. The reality of teaching an individual to humble themselves in spite of the imperfections of others, suck it up when they're uncomfortable, shy, feel like they don't belong, have no friends, etc., and to press forward obeying and serving as they should anyway has potential. Teaching humility is the only viable path, even if everyone being perfectly inoffensive was, actually, a solution to anything -- which it isn't because if people are prideful at some level or another, they're going to find a way out of the right path one way or another anyhow.
 
I do not advocate purposeful rudeness, intentional tactless castigation, or writing off anyone who is hurting or offended as worth nothing but disregard. But no one can get by even in life, not to mention the gospel, without building a bit of a thick skin about certain things. There are good reasons that forgiveness, humility, and turning the other cheek are principles of the gospel.
 
Being part of the church is burdensome. There is no getting around it. It takes time. It takes work. It can be very frustrating. People are hard to work with. Bishops and other leaders can be insensitive. Callings can be a horrible fit. Benches can be uncomfortable (they just replaced the moderately comfortable plastic chairs in our building with hard metal ones and my behind hurts by the end of priesthood meeting every week now. It ticks me off, in theory. But whatever...) Etc., etc. etc... This is life. This is the part of "the church" and "the gospel". Those who humble themselves and learn to focus their intent and efforts into first serving and loving God, and second into serving, loving and caring about others instead of themselves, will have the Spirit in their lives and learn to love and find great, great joy and comfort in the gospel in spite of all of the typical, natural, and unavoidable trials that being involved with people at church comes with.
 
A few weeks back the power went out on Sunday. They had the Sacrament service and then cancelled and sent us all home. I found myself so disappointed. I love church. I love being with my fellow Saints. I love hearing and learning about the gospel. I love (as is quite obvious) talking about it and sharing my thoughts. I was quite proud of myself (I know...a sin) that I was sad that church got cancelled. Yes, it was hot. There were flies everywhere. It was uncomfortable and hard to hear. But it was the church and gospel that I love.
 
This is my plain exhortation. Teach people to love church and to love the imperfect people therein. Teach them to ignore the noise, irreverence, unkindness, false doctrines, inconsiderate statements. These will happen.
 
Service, love, humility, long-suffering, patience, meekness, faith, dedication, obedience, commitment. With these in greater measure in our lives, the annoyances don't end up meaning much. Without these, we will fail.

I agree wholeheartedly.
 
 
 
Alas I confess that I am a science and math geek. But even those who enjoy it must confess that repeating Calc 101 for eternity might be slightly less than exciting?? :)

The answer to your first question, for me, would be an astounding "YES." I would most certainly be disappointed and I definitely would have failed.  I would gnash my teeth.
 
I would honestly be shocked if there was one individual on this earth, knowing the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who has not felt unsure, and must deal with this uncertainty -- despondency.  In my youth, and even now, I could say I have made some decisions that cause me grief.  This grief causes me to reflect upon my bodies intelligence (light and truth).  I remember speaking with a bishop of mine and asking this same question, as I would say, "I truly saw myself" (my carnal nature).
 
My bishop at this time asked me two questions, "When was the last time you received revelation?  When was the last time that the Spirit entered your body and provided you with enlightenment?"  At that time, I had been receiving what I would consider many revelations, and answered in kind.  He then said, "Then you have no need to worry.  The Spirit is part of the Godhead, and cannot dwell in a unclean temple. If you have have the Spirit enter your body, you have been cleaned (justified / sanctified) and where he can dwell you can dwell."  
 
At first my unspoken thought, "What a kind bishop, not sure if he is telling me the truth or just simply providing me comfort," and comfort it brought; although, I didn't quite fully accept what he said.  Until, one morning of personal scripture study I read this verse, Mosiah 4: 24, "And behold, even at this time, ye have been calling on his name, and begging for a remission of your sins. And has he suffered that ye have begged in vain? Nay; he has poured out his Spirit upon you, and has caused that your hearts should be filled with joy, and has caused that your mouths should be stopped that ye could not find utterance, so exceedingly great was your joy."
 
I had been calling for a remission of sins.  I had been begging.  How then do I know that my plea wasn't in vain?  He poured out his Spirit upon me and had caused that my heart was filled with joy through many revelations he had given me.  Even at that time, my heart ringed out and I praised God for his Son! I was forgiven.  Later, I discovered that my heart did not recognize 17 verses earlier in Mosiah 4:3, that a second witness was given, "the Spirit of the Lord came upon them...filled with joy...received a remission of sins...having a peace of conscience."  I received a peace of conscience...feeling like Nephi -- knowing in whom I have placed my trust, the anchor of the souls of men (Ether 12: 4).  Thus, faith, hope, and charity lead us all into good works, or simply unto Christ.  
 
How do I cope?  I simply ask, what revelation have I received, and did it cause my heart to rejoice leading to a peace of conscience knowing whom I trust?  If I can answer yes, then I know I am filled with Celestial light/intelligence.  If not, then I have need to repent, make changes, until I can receive the Spirit of the Lord and be filled with joy.  Joy does not equate with pleasure.