RMGuy

Mormonmusic makes a good point. You may feel forgiven, you may have been forgiven by your Heavenly Father, but the bishop may still decide to withhold a temple recommend or have you go through the repentence process tha the outlines. Why would he do that, if you really have been forgiven, if you have prayed and felt the power of the atonement, if you have confessed to your intended, if you have forsaken the sin? Because sometimes even bishops get it wrong. At the risk of being almost flip. The temple is the church's ball. They have the right to take it home and not let you play whenever they like. If you want to play, or in this case attend the temple, then you have to play by their rules. In this case, it leaves you with two choices: 1. Talk to the Bishop 2. Lie. I doubt you will find anyone here that recommends the second. -RM

Every time I hear corn maze, it makes me laugh because I always think of corn maize. -RM

On the other hand, we ARE talking about a paid employee, that is entitled to protections under law with redress available through the EEOC. What many churches deem ministerial is, in my view, a bit like the Vegas casinos that classify waiters and waitresses as models that serve in order to get around the EEO legislation. ON EDIT: The title of the cited article I believe shows its bias. I think we should remember a few important points here: 1. The church originally hired this individual 2. The church then reappointed this individual 3. The individual became ill 4. The individual then was on a leave of absence 5. The church then hired someone to fill her slot 6. The church then refused to return her to work (based on the facts not in evidence (i.e. FMLA eligibility, actual time off, etc.) this could have been an illegal act. 7. She then filed suit through the EEOC, who agreed to back her case. 8. She was fired from her job, until she threatened to pursue her rights under the law, which is the classif definition of retaliatory action, and probably the reason why the EEOC is backing the claim. I'm not a big fan of the government's involvment in employment situations generally, but I also am not big on retaliatory actions on the part of employers either. No where in this story does it talk about the justice department deciding to stick a congregation with someone off the street. Personally, I'm divided on this one. From all I've read neither side seems to be "right" in this particular instance. -RM

I do find it odd that I was not able to find it on the church site however, as it was a general conference talk. Why did they remove it from the conference addresses? -RM

Slightly off topic. We have been advised in the church to get an education. I think to many times in the church we equate "education" with "college degree". Not that there is anything wrong or bad about a college degree. I have seen a number of individuals however go to school for art, or history, or some other topic only to graduate and find that employment opportunities in the field are limited, lowly compensated, or not what they anticipated them to be. In the meantime, some of their peers participated in an apprenticeship and are making 2x or 3x times what they are making, with better benefits, and no college debt. I am NOT advising against college/university. I am advising that you go in with your eyes open to realistic expectations upon completion. I think we need to do a better job with our youth as well, so that they understand education is a skill set that provides specialized knowledge for which others will compensate you for your time and effort. This may or may not include a college degree. -RM

Excellent example, even better questions. Perhaps. -RM

We are instructed to seek knowledge and learning out of the best books. I agree with Spartan when he said, " If the church is true, then there's nothing to worry about." I will give you a couple of other quick thoughs on the matter, if it helps. 1. I believe that there are some members who are very uncomfortable reading about the church other than from LDS approved materials and sites. That is an individual call for the members to make. 2. From time to time there has been council to stay away from that which does not bring the spirit. Some members interpret this as guidance to stay away from "anti-mormon" literature. 3. The definition of what constitutes anti-mormon literature is vague. For some this is anything about the church not published by the church. Allow me to us the wonders of the internet to provide an illustration. This site is what many would claim to be very True Believing Mormon. The members of this site tend to be very conservative (my opinion and observation) in their religious views. It is a wonderful place to be. The site owners and moderators work very hard for this to be the case. What you read on this site is intentionally kept very close to what you would find from search church published materials for example. Some here may not feel as personally comfortable on another site such as StayLDS, it is geared towards helping those struggling with testimony. It too (in my opinion) stays close to what you would find in LDS sources, but allows perhaps a little more questioning and pushback than you would find here on LDS.net. Sites run the gammut from this to some of the sites that are not there for any purpose other than to destroy testimony of the Saints. But whether an individual can or should visit StayLDS, or NewOrderMormon, or any of the others is a decision left to the individual. Some find them beneficial to their spiritual journey, others find them detrimental. We are given advice in the matter not commanded. -RM

Yes, that will help to demonstrate to the world that we are a very Christian religion that follows the teachings of Jesus. -RM

James, I wish you all the best in your search for answers. For me, I have been trying to live such that I find peace in my day-to-day life. I have tried to be less judgemental, more understanding, loving and kind to the individual that I come into contact with. I don't always succeed. I have tried to live such that my family and friends know that I care about them and love them and want to be with them. I have tried to become more concerned with doing right than about being right. I have tried to (paraphrasing Joseph) knock off a corner here and a corner there. I am working on being comfortable being me. Then what happens in the Millennium, or at the judgement I think I can live with. I am comfortable acknowledging righteous judgement. So for me it is less about what will happen then, as what I am doing now. That is what has worked for me. But I also understand we each have our own challenges, questions, trials, and strengths. It is what makes us such a wonderful and diverse family, with a multitude of talents. -RM

Well the post office is running in the red........lol -RM

I'm sure he wouldn't find that "cult like" at all. -RM

What MichaelC said. It is also possible that they are working from a computer lab etc. We use static IP addresses in campus labs, so it is possible that two individual's could register/log in from the same machine. -RM

Thanks for the clarification Vort. -RM

Why? I think I do understand what you are saying, and I'm not trying to pick a fight. It just seems that in my church experience no one is perfect. I haven't met a single individual, not one, that didn't have doubts about somethings, uncertainty about others, or lack of understanding in some areas of the gospel. For those that struggle with those items, I think the better advice is what you concluded with. Talk with your leaders, talk with people you trust. If your testimony is important to you, then yes you need to care for it and nuture it. I just think that when we advise those individuals to KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT, that it isn't very helpful. Not to the individual who may need the help, nor to the church over all. After all, aren't we predicated on the foundation of helping the lost, comforting the hurt, aiding the lame, and succoring the weak? I recognize the admonition 'Physician, heal thyself' and agree that individuals who are struggling have to WANT to be helped. When they reach out, I believe we need to throw them a lifeline, not cut them off. -RM

As opposed to someone that is faithful and doesn't have sin? Your arguement is a non sequitur. We all have sin as part of our life. As such, everyong that falls away from the church or misplaces their testimony will be a sinner. So am I....and for that matter you. I am sure that some individuals fall away from the church because they are sinning. But to make the case that everyone leaves the church because they have a sin in their life simply is not true. -RM

Well Joseph did promise that they would be as good as gold. Based on the information in this thread they would be about 1.79 better than gold, and that's on the low end! -RM

I was MOSTLY good with this..."Nothing we make to "bring reverence and glory to God" will ever be enough. Believe in Christ, and like scripture says, He dwells within the believer. This is the sacred, mist high place, us. Let us consistently be in repentance...." after that it kinda got a bit mhhh. Though I think the comments given are appropriate regarding getting angry about what we read on the internet, and accepting it as truth. -RM

The very same. Do you know if they are still publishing this as a pamphlet? -RM

What I am going to post may sound flip, or disrespectful to your unit or the church in general. It is not meant to in anyway. Take a look around your unit, stop and ask yourself, "Why would anyone want to join this?" If you see things that you love and cherish about your unit or the church then find ways for your members to share those things. Note that these might be different for everyone in your unit. That is ok! People are comfortable sharing things that they find of value, but they don't like to be coerced to do so. So don't set up a "program" or a quota. Have them honestly assess what is good about your ward and branch and find a way to share that. They don't have to share the BOM, or anything about the Restoration, Living Prophets, Forever Families, or anything else. They just need to find what they find of value and share that! If you or your ward missionaries look around and can't find things that would make people want to join, or would keep people away, then working on fixing those things first. Those are my $.02 for what it is worth. Except to say good luck with your calling. It is not an easy one. It CAN be a rewarding one. -RM

The talk referenced above by Elder Packer has been removed from the Church's website. I am not sure if the pamphlet is still available or not through church distribution, so it might be difficult to find. -RM

Read Moses 4 and you'll realize that Satan is still enduring the presence of the Lord even in the garden....so was he even cast out at that point? -RM

Pam, I guess I don't see what Hoosier is saying as contrary to our teachings and beliefs. We believe that a couple should be married in the temple for time and eternity, but that doesn't mean that someone who marries only for time, or recommends that a couple be married outside the temple is teaching contrary to our beliefs. I know several bishops who have suggested to couples that they do just that based on their circumstances. We also believe in freedom and agency, what we fought the war in heaven over. Just because I support someone's RIGHT to make choices different than mine, doesn't mean that I encourage or condone those same choices. I think that is all hoosier is saying. I don't think that this is a good idea. If it were on the ballot in a place where I had the right to vote I would vote against it. However, I don't think that it means someone who would vote for it is against the teachings of the church. -RM

I wonder what would happen if we spent our time treating others as though they were Christ, or at least in a Christlike manner, then in some respects it wouldn't matter when he appeared, or how. We would be behaving as he taught, and we would recognize him. -RM

Sister_in_faith, good points but I might add that some of the problem is exactly the fact that many members act as though they are 'on stage'. Whenever I find myself acting, I realize I need to stop. If there is an aspect of my character that I feel I need to hide behind a mask, then perhaps I need to change my character rather than the costume that I wear. -RM

I had forgotten that this was an option, but it definitely is, and one that you don't hear about a lot. You can talk to your current stake patriarch, even if they were not the one that gave the intial blessing. Very good advice. -RM