C_T_R

I hear what you're saying and I'm with you. For people who don't know Him on a personal level so they can love Him and enjoy a very personal rapport with Him, I think He states these things to say.. look what you can become(!!).. this is the result of living the commandments(!!).. to those who don't know him and are put off by the price to know Him.. which is getting rid of the natural man, which is no easy feat. As someone who was raised with the church in my life from the beginning, but someone who truly is, in every way, a convert, I know a bit about the "fun" (dung ) as well. Phillipians 3 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ

But what is there to fake?

I'm failing to understand your analogy of the "fake it 'til you make it" approach. God is not about the letter of the law as much as He is about the Spirit of the Law. - Bible Dictionary under 'Holiness'For example, one can go through the motions of going to church and attending all their meetings, and not experience it spiritually at all. That isn't what it's about. How important is the underlying reason.. well I think people who blindly go about doing what they have been told they're "supposed" to miss out on everything.. or nearly everything that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is about. God has not put these commandments out there with any desire to be obeyed for the heck of it. He's put them out there to say, this is the way.. this is how YOU can be free, gain knowledge, have peace even among great strife, and ultimately come back to live with Me.. where you can continue to be added on forever. - Spencer W. KimballThat isn't because God is punishing you. These are the laws of the 'Universe' or whatever you can call it. When He says, I the Lord am bound when ye do what I say, but when ye do not what I say ye have no promise, it isn't because He wants to hold back blessings. He WANTS to give us all that He can give. It is through our qualification and through our choices that we're blessed and really sanctified to know more. So people who go through the motions? Well a lot of people do in this life (not just members of the church). They're asleep.. and they're missing out on _everything_. I'm not saying they aren't blessed for going through the motions but it is so miniscule in comparison to what it could be.. I just can't relate to that frame of mind. I endeavor to do what I *feel* is right because I want to progress: Intellectually; Spiritually; I want with all my soul to move forward! It's a great opportunity. The mindset of 'I'll do whatever I want and repent later' is complete bunk. These people don't know, first of all WHAT they're missing out on, what they're doing to themselves in the process of doing whatever they want, and what it takes to repent. Repentance isn't about saying 'sorry' to God per se; he's already atoned for it.. repentance is about changing your character.. of putting off the natural man. The more you do something, the more you become it. That's in effect saying, I'll go out and break the word of wisdom and the law of chastity but I'll be back 'cause I know that they're true principles but I just want to give in to my natural desires and not exert myself to follow what I know. I'm going to go 'live it up,' and then I'll come back and tell God I'm sorry and go through the motions (yea, right) and then everything will be okay in the next life. That's like saying that we do good to get blessings avoid bad so we don't get punished. What is the "punishment" of doing things contrary to the commandments and your own conscience? - Neal MaxwellI dare say we punish ourselves, albeit subconsciously. We also DENY God's blessings He'd like to give us. We hold OURSELVES back from abiding a higher law, and thus partaking of the goodness that goes along with that kind of lifestyle. - Neal Maxwell, The Promise of Discipleship

needsomehelp, ((hugs)) Here's the thing with addictive stuff like this that so many of us fall into. We can be determined to change, and sometimes we do change, but I think with something as powerful as pornography it takes support. If your wife is as loving and understanding as you say she is, she'll not only forgive you, but want to help you stay true to yourself and your marriage that you obviously care a lot about. I know you're afraid of hurting her more with what you need to tell her, but in my opinion you'd be hurting the union by not sharing everything. Just like going to the bishop and laying it all out there, it'll only be fully off your conscience when you're able to tell her you love her, and that you've been dealing with this since you were young.. I mean that in and of itself makes it less of a personal painful thing to her knowing she didn't fall short in giving you what you want. Issues with pornography are rampant in and outside the church. I just admire that you want to overcome it because for a lot of men (and I'm sure some women) it takes over all their cares and their marriages and their families become less and less important until they lose them.. and they don't even sometimes realize what they've lost. I just want you to know that I think you're awesome for wanting to let this go so that you can have a healthy relationship with your wife, and a true one. I can't predict how she'll react but I do know that you wanting to repent and holding to that determination will ONLY bring you two closer ultimately. :) She's a lucky woman. Truly in this day in age it's a plague.. and your desire to come clean is wonderful. I'm sure she doesn't want to lose you either.. and she could lose you to pornography as so many women I've come in contact with have lost their marriages to. God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of LOVE and of a sound mind. Let go of the fear. That's just Satan. There's nothing to fear when you're letting go of sin. There's no going back, but there's going forward and that's what counts.

Hey Dove, no problem. Listen, your business is between you and God. People trying to interfere with that are way out of line. I've experienced some of that myself and the people are *desperately* trying to get away from *any* introspection so they projected all kinds of stuff on me. It really is their problem. :) I know where I stand with God, and truth be told if these particular people thought I was a good person I'd be concerned. I know I'm on track when stuff like this happens. Can you love your enemy? Sure. I've experienced some of that. Who's our enemy tho really? That's a bit dramatic. Loving your enemy doesn't mean allowing them to continue to abuse you tho. It's saying I forgive you, I wish you the best, sianara suckah!

Wait.. was the pickle juice related to a parable? I was thinking you chose an alternative to kool aid. Great feedback. Thank you everyone. I have to remind myself not to judge the brother who's judging the repented brother. It's hard for me to understand but then I'm outside the situation looking in so I'm not going to judge anything... not that I would judge anything if I were in the situation... oh boy. All I want to say is the atonement is real. That we should forgive others and let them grow. We should forgive ourselves as well of our past mistakes. Guilt and sorrow for sin should only be a means to an end (repentence), not the end. And that's the end of my thoughts at this time. :)

My friend's older brother and his wife lived a lifestyle that was contrary to the teachings of the church when they first got together, and for many years after. It's only been in the last year or two that they've really turned things around, started going back to church and repenting. To me that is miraculous; beautiful; I feel the calm serenity of the Spirit just thinking of it. And this week they're going to receive their endowments and be sealed to each other and their 3 beautiful children. I am touched just thinking of that for them. The blessings and happiness and peace they have found and will continue to experience. And they're SUCH a beautiful couple. :) I love it. My friend's other siblings are coming in town to be there for that, and one of his brother's is less than thrilled for them. I asked my friend why that would be the case? And he said because he knows his history. .... Sooo? ALL THE MORE reason to be excited for them! But he.. I don't know.. apparently doesn't think he's worthy to receive these blessings. This bothers me. Probably more than it should because I can't judge where the unhappy brother is coming from exactly. I know I've seen him and his wife do this before with others in the family who've taken positive steps after committing sin. I'm just like.. incredulous that they would feel reservations about people who hadn't sinned against them or anything.. and not embrace the power of the atonement in its fullest. I'd love to hear any comments or thoughts on this. -Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, The Best Is Yet To Be

Satan's trademark is that he operates in extremes.. but also in very sly ways. If you want to know what's true and sacred in the world look at the things we have serious problems with: sex, drugs, violence. The body is clearly very sacred. Sex is of God. I know there was a time in my life when I thought that was a turn off.. that it had to be "naughty" to put it mildly to be hot. Now? Well, I've grown up a bit in my thinking. The stuff I thought was "naughty" isn't "naughty" .. it's something I can experience with my husband foreeeeverrr, and not feel any guilt or have any problems psychologically or spiritually from it. That sounds pretty good to me. I'm a single woman, never married, and I have been very grateful for my sexuality throughout my life so far. I know what it's like to experience depression. I know what it's like to have that desire totally gone. It feels unhealthy to me. While I choose to live the Law of Chastity and not act on my desires, which can be unbelievably strong at times, just having that drive blesses my life! There's a drive that goes along with it. In all seriousness it has the ability to help me accomplish more. It helps me feel balanced. But when those urges are strong? It's difficult. And if you've ever given way to some of your desires, you can easily feel the guilt that goes along with it. It's unfortunate that that can be residual when you've repented. And of course, Satan wants to take away your happiness and healthy desires.. always.. by any means he can. Remember that it isn't all or nothing as Satan would have you believe. That's not to say a single adult can experience a whole lot with it but I don't agree with the mindset of sitting there and saying, "I can't think about this. I can't think about this." Yuck! What is that? I related a story in one of my posts about brown monkeys.. anyway the point is that if you're thinking you can't do it, or you shouldn't be thinking about it, guess what's on your mind? My opinion? Everybody needs to take a chill pill about it. If a thought enters your head that is arousing, then it's arousing and move on. Easier said than done sometimes but the point is not to get overwhelmed by it every time it happens. D&C 20:22 He suffered temptations but gave no heed unto them. The sun is shining, and there's a nice breeze, and I'm horny, and there's the neighbor walking her cute dog. Yanno what I mean? It's been uplifting in my life because I choose to associate those feelings with love.. with my future husband whoever he may be and whenever I may get to marry him. In that way it's a sweet feeling, and if I don't indulge in it, a pure feeling. One that I look forward to expressing when the time is right. But if I hang around temptation or put myself in its way, I'm messing with fire. I don't like that because it is such a beautiful thing. I don't want to associate negative with it. There have been times in my past when, because of my actions, I have. But through repentence it can be transformed again. It's never too late for someone who truly wants that. But it's a choice I have to make multiple times a day and one I don't always make perfectly. I'm trying though. I feel like in a sense getting in control and bridling these passions are like learning to ride a bicycle. God, your Heavenly Father, is right there with you as you try it out on your own and if you fall off the bike, he's right there to make it better and help you get back on. And more and more it's easier to ride longer. But I just feel an overwhelming sense of God's love and His patience with those who sincerely want to do what's right. Sometimes you just shake it off and get back on the bike. ... I think I've gone off on a tangent here. I'm grateful for sexuality. I believe it's the closest thing we have to being like God when used in the right context. It's a huge gift.. and one I'll thoroughly enjoy with my hubby, Whenever he wants to show up is ok. Anytime now.

Eowyn, I'm so sorry this happened to you. For what it's worth this story has made my week. I kept laughing at random yesterday and today. I want to change my name to Shelob. Seriously. SO FUNNY. Where can I read your blog??

1) Honestly? Because they could handle it properly at that time. 2) Because the corruption of our society shows clearly that the Law of Consecration would not work. I'm trying not to get political here because I know everyone has their own views and I'm not interested in a debate. But due to 'conspiring men' in the last days, their greed makes it impossible. I strongly believe in the idea of the Law of Consecration and how beautiful it'll be when we can live like that for everyone. 3) No, not necessarily.. we live in different times when even the elect will be deceived. It wasn't that they had more faith.. they had very different trials than we do today. Their lives consisted of growing their own food, making their own homes and clothing and blankets and everything. And then their treks! No doubt it was a hard life.. NO doubt. In our day we deal with so many different things and certainly it varies in different parts of the world but especially here, "Zion, the new Jerusalem," we are bombarded with distractions. The technology is amazing, the crap sold in conventional grocery stores is amazing, our air quality astounds me, and don't get me started on healthcare. It's a real, serious fight to be vigilant enough to stay chemically balanced alone with all the environmental factors and all the exciting stimulation that is not evil.. but can be extremely addicting. I think of the line in the song Come. Come Ye Saints when it says, "but if our lives are spared again to see the Saints their rest obtain.." I look forward, whether on this side of the veil or not, to see not only the people who've been exposed to the Gospel but all of our brothers and sisters.. to see their relief.. in every capacity. Temporally ABSOLUTELY. But just from the beautiful souls I have the opportunity to be around, mentally as well.

Worst case scenario you'll be excommunicated. I don't know that that'll happen. But with that comes the opportunity to be a totally new person. I know a girl about my age who was excommunicated, returned to the church and is a lovely person. I admire her all the more for freeing herself through the atonement. James12 couldn't have said it better. Don't be afraid. 2 Timothy 1: 7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord...

Are you getting married or preparing for a mission? Or is it just time to receive your endowment? :) Congratulations! I'm not sure what I can say here.. except that it was a day I'll never forget. Not because it's a big step in a church member's life, which it is. It was a beautiful experience and one that affected the entire course of my life since then. I actually went without an escort.. which I guess is pretty unusual. They didn't know what to do with me lol. But I wanted to experience it on my own so I did, and for my personality, that was perfect. Over the years prior to it I heard from many people the first time is just weird; confusing; it doesn't make any sense. But I didn't find that at all! I mean I've learned a lot more about it since that time but wow. What an extraordinary experience. I hope it is for you.. and if it is confusing and kinda weird, I hope you'll continue to return and let the Spirit teach you how amazing it really is!

"As man now is, God once was; as God is now man may be.” (The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, ed. Clyde J. Williams [1984], 1.) I believe this is a truth spoken by one of the prophets. So if you accept that as truth, if God was once just like us, He has a Heavenly Father, and there was a "Lucifer" (probably different name) involved with that whole thing. So if there's no beginning to Gods and goodness, there's no beginning to evil. And we all know how cunning the adversary can be. I can imagine Lucifer was ensnared the same way he tries with us by the "dark side." He was puffed up and narcissistic and reacted extraordinarily childish when the Father chose Jesus. As if it was a personal rejection. As if the billions and billions of people who'd be saved by the only means necessary didn't matter. It was all about him, and if they didn't see it that way then.. I mean perhaps you've read about narcissistic injury? He chose to take it completely personally when it was ANYTHING but.. and did he want to hear the truth of the matter? NO! HE was rejected (in his mind), and now has a vendetta against goodness, truth, and freedom in the EXTREME. Like whoa dude. No, God didn't create it, but the free agency was there. And opposition was there. There must needs be an opposition in all things. And men are free to choose.. even if they are deceived in what they think they're choosing. And now my brain is going to explode. Good night. :)

God did not create the evil in Lucifer. I love that his name means son of the morning. I think they loved him dearly. The deeper question is how could Satan know God the Father, and of His goodness, and rebel against them because he couldn't be the Savior? 8-o ! How is that possible?? What were we before we were spirits? Intelligences.. and what are those? Is there spiritual DNA?! All I can say is that we definitely had individualism in the premortal life. We were never cookie cutter children of our spiritually begotten parents. How it all works won't be answered here. How did God know that Lucifer would do it? My theory is that time doesn't exist to God.. that He knows things from beginning to end and how it'll all play out. That isn't him messing with people's free agency whatsoever. He just lives in a dimension where it's all happened already.. aah! My brain is going to explode! We're mortal and our brains can't take it in. The life before this was similar to the life we have now. People follow "leaders" because of their charisma and their promises (that don't add up) and their eloquence. They don't even go further than that! Sheep mentality.. it's like people are just asleep! And if they had the desire to find out what really works, what the plan really entails, what's really going down, I think a lot of them would have made a different choice. The scriptures say some people choose to remain *willfully ignorant.* !!! So it was, so it is here, and will ever be and it SHOCKS me. Also, people like Lucifer, who want power and prestige and not seeing anything beyond their own noses existed there, exist here, and will exist in the hereafter. Lucifer is so dumb too! He does all this stuff to people (I'm putting this extremely lightly) and to what end? He's only making himself MORE miserable!! :-o *sigh* It'll all be answered in due time. But no, God did not create the evil that Lucifer chose to embrace and give place in his heart for.

All three of these statements are the total opposite of how I see things. I'm always trying to put myself in the other person's shoes. And cutting ourselves slack while not offering that to everyone else?? Total opposite here. I'm much harder on myself and cut people a LOT of slack. Hmm.. interesting insight tho.

PLAYING the victim, and actually BEING the victim are two very different things. Why are people so easily offended and take things so personally? I could come up with a list of possibilities.. Most notably it's due to insecurity in which one establishes in one's head a false personal preeminence. Their egos are inflated, but they are very, very fragile. Another reason off the top of my head are people who don't have enough problems in their life.. or a life period. They're looking to be offended. Actually looking for and sometimes seeking out ways to spin what someone says because they're THAT bored. It reminds me of a soap opera (gag). Really, I don't have the time or inclination to care what most people think of me. If they mean to cause offense, little to none is taken with me. It truly reflects on them! The few people whose opinions matter to me, have proven themselves worthy to have their opinions matter to me. Who gives a crap what people think? ESPECIALLY people who DON'T know you! In reality they're doing you a favor by cutting through the BS and getting down to where they're at in their mindset. And frankly, I don't want to get to know people operating on that LOW energy level. In fact I almost *hope* they think I'm a stupid retard! Then they'll want to move on to something more interesting in their finite views (self-imposed no less).

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Oh boy. I could leave a wall-o-text on this thread. But the first guy that comes to mind is one I met while I was going to school in Las Vegas. We met at a single's dance and he was cute.. and complimentary.. I mean he seemed normal. Our first date was nice.. he took me to dinner just the two of us and then we met up with a group from my single's ward for a drive-in movie. It all seemed pretty good.. but when he was driving me home he started talking about potentially getting married and asking how many kids I'd like to have with him... and I was like ... .... um, this is really too fast for me (I almost hyperventilate when a guy comes on that strong.. like WHAT?!) and he's like, oh yea.. but (taking my hand!) isn't it amazing we're discussing it? I kid you not he looked normal, acted normal on the date, I liked him.. until that. Yikes.

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Who cares? Beauty is subjective. The few people, and I mean *few* people's opinions that matter to me are the only ones that matter to me. You think I look terrible? I. Don't. Care.

Um, I beg to differ. No, net everyone is "supposed" to get married in this life, and considering the things you're dealing with, you don't need to have that idea and added pressure. I vehemently disagree that everyone is supposed to get married in this life because not everyone is ready or mature enough to hold up their end of a very serious commitment.You work on you.. however you feel you should. Don't worry about anything else.

I'm kind of with the OP, tbh. I dunno, I mean I can sit here and say what ideally a marriage should be.. which I imagine is being roommates with your best friend.. with benefits. But that sounds a little too good to be true. And it is in my experience! I mean I've had some relationships that have been what I call "healthy" but I've also fallen into co-dependency waaay more times than I'd like to admit. Co-dependency does take two people. It isn't one-sided in that one person IS putting all of their individuality on the back burner, but the other has to be giving them a little something, at least once in awhile, to keep them hanging on. If the 'giver' finally gets fed up, the 'taker' will step up and be loving and bait them back in.. and the cycle continues. Pretty miserable.. and from what I've heard, it's misery for both sides. Even the "healthy" relationships I've had haven't been that perfect ideal I just described. I've never been married, but I imagine it's a lot harder than dating. There are the perks! But yea. I think the only way it'd work for me is having someone who's mature enough to let me have my space when I need it.. and for me to be mature enough to do the same. It shouldn't feel like you're being smothered.. and it can definitely feel that way even when you're both just trying to keep it "equally yoked." Good.. I mean reeeally good communication is _essential_. Finding a woman you WANT to be with even if she got fat and went bald. lol. Seriously tho! And I feel like I'm capable of feeling that for someone.. but I haven't found a best friend who feels that for me. But like I said, I'm kind of with the OP. I'm not even sure how it would look if I found that kind of connection. I have a hard time imagining why it would be as hard as everyone says if I did.. *shrug* I don't know. The idea of marriage is lovely to me. The actuality from what I've personally seen makes me feel basically content with the idea of being single. I don't believe it's something we're supposed to endure.

That is truly unfortunate if they're still teaching that. I know a lot of guys who served missions.. and don't take the gospel seriously.. and I know a lot of guys who didn't serve missions who are awesome (and vice versa)! That kind of thinking seems outdated to me.. and in fact, should have never been there in the first place. I can honestly say I was never taught that in any of my classes in church. I can't agree with your thinking it's not wrong (agree to disagree). It IS wrong. That kind of teaching is NOT congruent with any aspect of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is why we attend church. Not to be told that our future husbands should have a mission on their resume or else they won't even be considered for the job. That kind of stuff really gets to me to hear about.. but again, I never was taught that.

I understand past issues with brethren in high callings, with quite a bit to back it up, actually. I wonder how you'd feel about meeting with one who isn't necessarily your bishop.. just any bishop. Or if you even want to go higher up.. just to know that your confidence is kept. There is a wisdom and power in confessing it.. It's truly amazing.. a literal weight being lifted from you. I'm about as private as people come. I DON'T like opening up to people that I don't know. But when I've confessed before, it's been a positively overwhelming experience and the atonement becomes so tangible. I admire your story. I love that you did all those things because YOU got to experience and gain a testimony of some of these principles and of God.. and you didn't have to rely on anyone else for that. That's why we're here; that's why the atonement was performed! That we might learn truth from evil. What I loved most was how you said you are happy. That's what it's ALL about! Happiness and freedom. That's it. :) Thank you for sharing.

I agree with you that hell is real. I just have a few thoughts I wanted to share that make a little more sense to me, but I can't verify they're necessarily true. I was never told hell wasn't real myself, but "outer darkness" was another name for it from what I gathered. You read about baptism by water and also baptism by fire. My personal belief is that is specific trials and things you go through here.. that are extremely difficult.. but if you make it out, you're better and purer for it. I'm just not sure it's AS tangibly literal as we're reading it. God's character doesn't strike me as one that would find benefit from slapping someone on the hand and saying they're forgiven. Just like some parents abuse their children to teach them a lesson and how that is the opposite way to teach anything.. especially goodness? To become more pure? I have a hard time believing that people that are in Hell are going to sit in a volcano pit burning and screaming and that THAT would cleanse them from their evil. That isn't how God cleanses people. "Outer darkness" I believe reflects the state of mind they'll be in.. that really, they, at least some of them, experience even here. Totally unaware of what life is about, the glorious plan of happiness, that they are sons and daughters of a King, and that they can be *free*. It's like putting a veil over your eyes.. how empty things would feel.. but also.. how empty they feel here. And as far as fiery brimstone and the traditional pain of hell? I believe, once again, it'll be that they're in that frame of mind. Dealing with and atoning for their own sins? Is that possible? All I know is the pain and the difficulty I face when trying to overcome things and be better.. it feels like that metaphor of the blacksmith who smelts metals and burns away the dross, leaving the pure gold or silver. I think it will be much more on a psychological basis than a literal physical lava hot tub. I can only imagine the guilt over one sin that I denied my Savior could fix... the pain and agony.. wanting to fix it and make it better.. THAT sounds like hell to me.. and one with a true purpose of learning.. of understanding.. of truly getting it and becoming purer. BUT, they'd still have to choose to become purer. I think they'll only experience that hellish frame-of-mind until they have a change of heart. And I'm not sure those that actually qualify for that.. will be in any rush to change it.. even then. In the same vein I want to suggest that exhaltation isn't necessarily what we receive. I believe it's what we become. Daily choices, the desires of our hearts, living in harmony with the wisdom of the principles taught by the church.. You know they say this life is a time to prepare to meet God.. and how else would we be able to if not by putting off the 'natural man' and by our choices become exalted? I'm not saying we have the power to exhalt ourselves per se. I'm just getting at the notion of dying and then becoming exhalted just like that.. it doesn't seem consistent with God's style. They say before the Judgement and Resurrection we'll go to Spirit Paradise or Spirit Prison. I think that means within our own minds. President Ezra Taft Benson said, "Some of the greatest battles you will face will be fought within the silent chambers of your own soul” (“In His Steps,” p. 60). There won't be a way to numb out and try to escape the reality of what you've done to yourself and to people.. and that's a scary thought! All I feel is that it'll be easier, and so much better to deal with sins here than there. -Neal Maxwell, Free To ChooseHaving said all this, I truly believe this statement made by President J. Reuben Clark, Jr.: