BadWolf

To continue/clarify...When I hear "not on the same page" I think maps & clocks being off. Ignoring geography, which just requires a bit of cartography & paying attention to sort out:. - There are both men & women with high libidos - There are both men & women with low sex drive. - There are both men & women who are visually stimulated. - There are both... Et cetera. IME&O ... 1) Sexual compatibility is just like compatibility in any other sphere of the relationship/marriage. Some couples are exceptionally compatible sexually, others are at loggerheads. 2) There's a baseline "normal" (drive, proclivities, etc.) and then there are the 5 great libido killers A- Sleep Dep B- Depression C-Antidepressants D-Hormonal Imbalance E-Stress (particularly starvation: first libido crashes, then fertility) Now... If you look at that list ... "New Mom" just kind of LEAPS out as having not only one, but even ALL 5 (sleep dep, PPD, antidepressants, pregnancy/nursing hormone flux, or thyroid tank... And then dieting because they don't want to be fat). With an average of 2 years for physiology to return to normal, and a new pregnancy every 18mo for 2+ kids... A lot of young families are looking at mom's libido needing a crash cart & ICU for at least 4 years. HOWEVER... That ENTIRE list is fixable. And not in 4 years, but more like 4 weeks. ALSO....(sorry for shouty capitals, Im on my phone & cants italic). That list could apply to any husband in the new fam as well - SAHD/ Working too long/ or has the baby at night = sleep dep - Depression / meds - Low testosterone (crazy common) - dieting or over exercising/underconsuming (aka not on purpose dieting), or $, or whatevers. <grin> FIXABLE lists. Of the top 5 libido killers. But in most cases, only one person in the marriage (whomever has the kids at home, typically) gets "the list". Sometimes its in reverse, with the working parent stressed to the limit, but more commonly its the SAHP whose body starts shutting down, right? If a couple was sexually compatible BEFORE kids, then "all" it takes is fixing the deficit to go right back to being sexually compatible. So I get my knickers in a twist whenever the issue comes up, when one person is griping, but unwilling to go to the minimum amount of effort it would take for the other person's body not to be LITERALLY turned off (survival mode = no sex drive), 4:5. But instead of getting sleep/ eating more/ et cetera... People fight biological systems (hours of foreplay needed, little blue pills, etc.), or just suffer with frustration vs resentment. That assumes a baseline of compatibility, of course. If one starts off incompatible, its going to be... Challenging. But compatibility isn't gender specific. Anyhow... Was that what you were going toward (frequency & readiness)... Or something completely different?

Same page sexually, how so?

I'm still new, so I have a lot of catching up to do. 1-2 hours most days. But not every day. And some WEEKS its nada. But 1-2 hours most days. At this rate, I'll have the basic knowledge of our youth hitting seminary in a few YEARS. I wish there was seminary-for-converts.

Beards are untrustworthy. Mustaches are fine, you can still see the interplay of muscles in the face that denote important stuff, but beards hid about 2/3s of micro expressions Also, while Im SURE there are men who would shampoo their beard after each meal, most don't. For those of us with sensitive noses, its gross. Even after a day. Shudder. ... These are not "real" reasons. ... As in no one of importance has uttered them ... These are just MY reasons why I find growing your own pelt "icky".

@ Leah.... Yeah. I wonder if that's just a convert thing (or female convert thing)? Its been about a year, here. LOL, I didn't even know home teachers "do" blessings. I mean, capable for sure, just didn't realize that's in their purview. In all fairness, I haven't asked, or anything. It just doesn't occur to me. Especially during hard stuff. I'm focused on surviving the moment, and then afterwards someone will mention something, and its like "Oh. Right. Call people when we're hospitalized." But it just doesn't occur to me until either the social worker is mentioning last rights (go away, lady, we're not giving up yet), or we're home safe & sound, and its apologizing for missing Sacrament. The knee jerk reaction just isn't there. Why would I call? Blink. Oh yeah. Right. Whoops. As a single mum, though, Im in the family ward. Even people who know me/ know Im a convert/ know Im divorced just sort of forget. LOL... As evidenced by invitations to "both" of us. Frames of reference colliding. @ Traveller... Oy! You know, the ONE time you didn't give a blessing for a scratch it would be the kid with no tetanus shot. At least, that's how things work in my life.

These are awesome, all, thank you. :) I looooove the story of little girl popping into the chair with toddler determination! And how sweet before start of school, or term, major life events, et cetera... that it seems like most parents/couples work towards. It all sounds very... Grounding. I remember being a kid & wanting to marry my grandmother's (catholic) priest, and being explained why that's "Not gonna happen." And then "Well DAD could..." / "No. That's REALLY not going to happen." I didn't start out this q thinking about the family dynamic involved (I honestly just forget about blessings being a part of people's lives, since they're not in my frame of reference)... But what a gift to be able to grow up in that kind of dynamic. BW .

I love mine. But I also love the stained glass & stonework in Temple.

Sheer curiosity. There's no priesthood in this house (single mum). And I wasnt raised in the church. So I'm curious what other people's houses look like. BW

It's such a cool concept... But its one I struggle to get my head around. The B.Y. Quote certainly fits in: "He who takes offense when it's not intended is a fool, he who takes offense when it IS intended is a greater fool." Brigham Young But its only a piece.

What I like best about that list: Countries who are, by international convention (end of WWII) PROHIBITED from maintaining a standing army/navy beyond token force... Make up a bulk of it. Sumimasen. Then, lets add in the former USSR (who has been selling off its armaments at bakesales for 20 years, trying to but bread), a few States which are known for using mercenaries or allies almost exclusively (2 different budgets), and PARTS of the Commonwealth (Um. UK & Australia? Beg pardon?). Then, once we've done that, lets put the cherry on the sundae by adding China. Who a) doesn't actually publish budgets with any kind of veracity, and b) has millions of workers from slave labor, and c) -but wait, there's more- exchanges hundreds of millions if not hundreds of billions billions in bribes & quid pro quo. SURE you can build a car factory here, just make sure to also produce x number of jet frames per month & we won't seize your company for the state. China. Bleeding CHINA is on the list? Like knowing what their ACTUAL defense capability/budget/structure is like isn't on the most wanted list of, you know, the entire rest of the quaking world. I looooooooove Jon Stewart. There's just so may LAYERS of funny in his show. I mean, at least Tgeyre weren't insulting about it by adding Micronesia or Malta. But wheeeeee. You know they had fun generating "which countries will be the funniest to watch people take their 'budget' seriously?"

That's so funny, Traveller! As I was thinking about the Q, the first thing that popped into my head was, "Well. Not the Savior. He cared too much about Justice. And Truth. Turmoil followed him like a shadow. Not to mention dividing Abraham's church for the first time. With enough fallout from that in his own lifetime, even if one ignores all of the individual instances, the schism from Judaeism was... dramatic." It would be totally unfair to blame him for all the Jihads & genocides, burning times & bloody reformations committed in his name in the following centuries, of course. Although one could, there's more than enough strife during his own life. I think its interesting the different lessons we take from the same stories. I've never gotten peace/peacemaker from Jesus' story. To do the right thing, no matter what... To be true, kind, intentional/ aware. Justice over peace. <grin> I like hearing how others have different perspective. ________________ A truly amaaaaaazing thing has been happening in Kosovo/Albania in the past couple years: There has been the HUGE rallies where whole families get up in front of the podium and publicly forgive their blood debt. Honor killings, life for a life, have been rampant in the Balkans. Since before the genocide, but after the genocide? Its been unbelievable. BUT Albanian & Serb have been doing this crazy/unheard of thing... And family by family are forgiving the killers of their children, spouses, siblings, and parents. I quite frankly don't know if I could do so if I was in their place. If someone killed my son, my mum... I don't know if I could look them in their eye & grant them forgiveness & life. What these families are doing simply staggers me. Its breathtaking. <3

Others, I'm sure, will be more help in the substance of your question... But for me... When he says he's "fine"? Have you heard of this acronym, before? Freaked Out Insecure Neurotic Emotional When someone says they're "fine"... I've learned to hear this in its place. Yet to steer me wrong. Its even more telling than "good". Good, all by itself had almost no meaning. Fine, however, usually means the opposite. Have you been in grief counseling? If so, touching base with your counselor about what's going on with your husband may be useful.

Our marriage counselor had a 2 meter system. "Success" was determined by best possible outcome , and if the best possible outcome is divorce, that the divorce is handled as humanely as possible. LOL. So in our case... We were successful in part 1 (decision to divorce), but failed in part 2. That's pretty standard in abuse cases, though. The abuse kicks into high gear during the divorce as the abuser gets in the most licks they can. My now ex was restrained 6 ways from Sunday by the courts preventing any physical contact, but man oh man, did he make everything ELSE as ugly and expensive as possible. So our counselor was really pleased with the dissolution, just not pleased with the mess that followed it. Some violent guys can actually be prodded into half decent behavior toward their soon to be ex & kids. But most can't. Most get off on causing as much suffering as possible. ANYHOW... That's why our counselor 2 tiered it via 2 separate outcome paths. Even so, he was pretty clear that while most of his clients had the best possible outcome in their marriage (to stay, redefine, or to dissolve), some chose to stay in abusive marriages, some chose to not redefine even though the chrrent definition made one or both miserable, and others chose to dissolve loving ones. Not an LDS counselor, but he was very big on agency.

I'm watching conference with one of my besties & HIS boyfriend, and bpyfriend's parents. Parents are active, my friends are not, per se. They don't attend sacrement, don't hold TRs, hold no callings. They do read/study/pray/volunteer/tithe/etc. Theyre not activists. Theyre not trying to change the church. They dont follow the law of chastity, which nixes them from most parts of participation... but do in all other ways practice on a daily level. Including Word of Wisdom, fast sundays, etc. And, as I said, Im potlucking with them over conference. THEIR feeling, is that they're not going to throw out the baby with the bath water. They're leaving it up to God to judge them, as he sees fit. Maybe the church will have a place for them someday, maybe it won't. Meanwhile, they do the best they can with what they've got. Boyfriend's parents, meanwhile, are very active. Callings in Bishopric & RS, every sacrement, TR, etc. All 4 are some of the very best of people. LOL... I should probably add... My friends are in their 40s. This isn't anything new for them. They're close with Boufriend's parents (and sibs/spouses/kids), but they're not kids themselves. My friend's family shut the doors on a relationship with him 20 years ago. Boyfriends family didn't. I also have a fair number of GLBTQ friends who are in no way affiliated with the church, or who, like you, have left. All are good people. I'm not friends with bad people. Including those who might LOOK all worthy, and are actually despicable human beings who are abusive, cruel, etc. AND I have GLBfriends in the church who AREA active, hold TRs, etc. some are in mixed orientation marriages, some are single & celibate. I can't say whether or not YOU are a good person. I don't know you. Because I fail to see how ones sexual identity defines whether one is a good person or not.

I'm a divorced convert, and if my ward doesn't stop trying to set me up, we're gonna have words! LOL. Oy. I've actually already HAD words with some key people (stop, no, not dating, young kids = all my attention, et cetera) who are summarily ignoring me. Bless their hearts, they're driving me crazy. I'm neither beautiful nor young. Nor especially clever. Just me. And liked (or not) as such.

1) You have a problem. Him saying "There is no problem." Does NOT make the problem go away. A lot of people think that, in a relationship both people have to "have a problem" in order for one to exist. Nope. We get it, dude. *YOU* are completely happy/problem free. *I*, however, have a real and serious problem. My problem isn't silly, i't childish, and isn't magically going to disappear by your saying "there is no spoon". So either man up and come to counseling with me to help ME with MY problem... Or I'll go by myself. Because my problems are just as important and just as worthy of being sorted. 2) Sudden change in action & personality following military deployment? That smacks of one of several SUPER common things - Depression (chemically missing high adrenaline work) - Depression (grief gotten out of hand) - Depression (guilt of several kinds gotten out of hand) - PTSD (bet you thought this would be first, but MOST active to inactive military suffer from moderate to severe depression upon leaving the service, the military actually hosts classes & counselors to help with the transition... While only some have PTSD. But PTSD definitely makes the list of common post-deployment problems.). Which reeeeeeally underscores why he doesn't want to go to counseling. In the military, youre supposed to "suck it up" & "dig in" & "laugh it off" & "chin up nose clean". Seeing a counselor is admitting a weakness, and is generally only reserved for those - in trouble (possibly dischargeable trouble) - broken. So I cannot emphasize enough... While there MAY (probably) be issues of his at hand... Make it about YOU. YOUR problem you need his HELP with. White knight needed. Stat. Same result. In counseling. But with H as a willing participant. Instead if feeling in trouble or broken. Just a suggestion. __________________ 3) Physical contact normal? LOL. For the record... I'm an in-your-lap, always touching, arm or leg thrown over, super physical contact kind of girl. ALL the men Ive dated (thats a bias, not all men, merely those I fancy) have been the same way (save 2). But the style of physical contact differs. I'm not a cuddler. I'm not keen to hold hands. A lot of the guys Ive dated have been. Even being super-physical-contact-girl... Its HARD to switch into forms of affection that don't come natural. Or feel "squidgy" for lack of a better term. But needs must. And when it works, its synergistic. Each meeting the others needs. So I'll hold hands if you'll throw me over your shoulder or greet me with a bear hug. (My physical go -outside of sex- being pretty heavy handed. Its even harder to switch into a completely different "love language". Doing the dishes just does NOT warm fuzzy my heart. Believe me, physical contact is NORMAL. But there are also variations in that range of normal. And then there are whole other languages completely. STRONG 2nd (3rd/4th/5th) for the 5 Love Languages. Because, which touchy-feely people are TOTALLY NORMAL, so are NOT touchy-feely people. Sigh. I married one of those 2 non-touchy-feely guys. (Coulda married the massage therapist, but noooooooo ; ). That was eyes open / we dealt with my need for constant physical contact in other ways. So too, his need for "acts of service". (Seriously, the 5 love languages is the most common sense thing. Ive ever read). One of the many things that counseling can do is to find those compromises. Sometimes they're weird (I bought a dog, because I want that kind of greeting when I walk in the door. Bowl me over), sometimes Tgeyre hard (I HATE dishes!!!), sometimes they don't work (Um. No.), sometimes they're eye opening, and sometimes they are straight out not compromises.. But thou shalts. Works better with 2 people (whole story)... But Im serious. Even though your needs/desires are NORMAL... If he won't go with you... Go yourself.

Let me tell you a story about my uncle... At his funeral, there were over 100 children. None were his, and we all were his. Nieces & nephews by blood, our own children (great N&N), god children, interns/ students/ mentees. There were over 400 adults. My uncle died "alone". Not married. No children of his own. But his funeral was a carnival. Hundreds of people who loved him. Hour after hour of people telling funny stories. Walls of photos: snowball fights, field trips, kayaking, climbing, swimming... A few passersby thought we were holding a fundraiser for a children's organization or overseas orphanage. Nope. Just a celebration of my uncle's life. Which was fuller & richer than 10. My uncle died beloved. Surrounded by a huge family (blood & friendship) of those who cherished him. ______________ One thing Ive learned in my own life, is that life rarely looks how we think it shall, and in 10 years time, its usually mindblowing how different life is from how we thought it would be. For better, for worse, for just our understanding of it. Here's a thought exercise for you: Come up with 8 off the wall ways your blessing could be true, but none of which "set" in 10 years. I'll start you off: At the age of 91 you marry a Hunza man in rhe karakorum mountains of Pakistan, and like most residents, you & your husband live to 120 years old. After nearly 30 years of marriage you & your husband pass, surrounded by your stepchildren, and great-5th great grandchildren... A matron in the community, beloved by all. You frequently chuckled with your husband over your PB, since he was not only the youngest son of his parents, but seemed to personify the adage "grow old, not up". Until the day he died, he was up to mischief and radiated boyish charm.

Obviously, I haven't been everywhere/met everyone, and I have no idea if any studies have been done... But its about as common as it is here in my experience & observation, which is what I meant by fairly common. Id say, rough estimate, 1:10 families I knew. Its not like they're snogging in the street, and there's a HUGE homophobia thing surrounding men... But women are much more tolerated (or even encouraged) by many men. Even still, while women can go anywhere in the house, men are not allowed in the women's quarters without explicit invitation (including husbands). Its private/sacrosanct/just not done. So even if ones husband didn't approve or encourage, and many do, there is a great deal of privacy in most households. As a westerner, I had to be given a lot of "super basics" by my friends/family. One of those was how to recognize & be discreet about women's quarters conversations & activities. ESP in families where wives were 'special friends'. There's an awful lot of "don't ask don't tell" behind closed doors.

It's fairly common in the MiddleEast. In no small part because first wives (in nearly all cases) get veto power over prospective wives. Or as it was told to me "Only a fool married without his wives' approval." In most families, prospective brides are brought home for "inspection" before any serious dating or arrangements are made. Which means, in my experience, that lesbian/bisexual women tend to not approve of straight prospects and vice versa. Something often misunderstood about MEast culture is that women DOMINATE the home. Men have power outside the home, but virtually now power inside it. And the power outside the home is variable. Because he then has to come home & explain himself to his grandmother, mother, & his wives. Some of the most powerful men, are actually made that way due to the political genius of his own private think tank at home. But yeah... So self selecting groups... Get interesting. But like minded individuals usually find each other. So, based off of current norms, I would suspect the same model applies.

LOL... I just think the title is funny. Ya know... Since the LDS church banned polygamy generations ago... And Ive lived in countries where 4 wives are legal, and travelled through places with polyandry & polygyny both legal & spiritually sanctioned, or one or the other. Not to mention marriage+formally recognized concubines, contractual marriage, sworn virgins (Albania mostly), etc. People & our relationships are just fascinating. But then, Im an anthropologist. Aka rabidly biased. But the one thing that media keeps forgetting is that 1m+1f is reeeeeeally new, and hardly universal. Most cultures have several different forms of legally recognized or spiritually sanctioned marriage. I swear. Every generation thinks it invented sex. Badwolf

North Korea has been serious for a loooooong time. War "should" have happened at least 50 times by now... Its only the concentrated efforts of half the worlds intelligence, security service, and diplomatic corps that have kept us (not just the US, but a LOT of countries) from true attacks. City leveling attacks. Pretty much any time NK is in the news (missile testing, sudden outbreaks of "dead" infections, etc.) you can get down on your knees & thank those men & women we'll never know for their insane efforts to keep a lit powderkeg from blowing up. CIA, 6, DPSD, NKVD, Vatican, CSIS, ASIS, heck everyone on the pacific rim, all their allies, & half of Asia ... And heaven only knows. Multinationals, the AP, "private security"/mercenaries, NGOs, individuals, defectors... Hundreds, if not thousands of people working to keep NKorea contained. North Korea is scary, because they ARE serious. <grin> I don't worry, though. Because its one of those things that I can do absolutely nothing about. Except to pray for those who can and do... Whenever I think of them. Godspeed & thank you. From the bottom of my heart, and all of me, for the life I and my family have been able to lead, because of every crisis and disaster you have prevented that I'll never know about.

Another convert here: 1) Science v Religion For me, it isn't. My science never conflicts with my religion because they answer 2 seperate questions; How & Why. Science may sound like "why", but it never is. Its HOW. Take ANY area of science, and science describes "how". We ask "Why is the sky blue/ do electrons cascade/ why is this antimicrobial... But what we describe is how the process works. Its the foundation of the scientific method: repeatability & describing how. Astrophysics to Psych to Medicine. As scientists... We describe "how". <grin> Case in point: Big Bang Theory describes HOW the universe came into being. Not why. Back up aaaaaaaallllllllll the waaaaaaaaaay to "why", and any self respecting scientist will thwack you upside the head and say "That's not my job." Or will just go white around the eyes a s say "Because it is! That's an atom! That's. what. They. Doooooo!" ((Science also describes "what" in the "how", just never the why.)) "Archaeology is the search for fact... not truth. If it's truth you're looking for, Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall." - Indiana Jones

You said your children "need" a mother. This is a hard lesson from my own life, with the sexes reversed: Better no mother, than a bad mother. Follow your heart. As long as your kids are first in your heart, you'll be fine. Because no one else is going to look out for them if you don't.

Actually, professors do this every quarter. The specifics of which change with each discipline. One would expect to find Gay Marriage in eithe polysci/ psych/ health sciences / sociology/ anthropology in the undergrad world. MLKjr in polysci/ history/ psych/ sociology/ etc. Conspicuous targets (lauded, derided, or controversial) are the norm depending on the desired outcome. Cricket cricket. No riots, yet. Again, apparently you're not over familiar with academia. Aproximatly 1/3 of professors demand genuflection on command, along with strict adherence to the gospel of their lecture, opinions, and attitudes. Part of being a student is learning how to - Recite rubbish regardless of personal view - Ask around to learn which are the most obnoxious professors so one can subsequently avoid them.

I just wanted to chime in again... Because Ive been thinking... But know these are just my thoughts and experiences. - Ive had some reeeeeally bad things happen to me in my own life that I believe we're divinely inspired. Things that on the surface look as much like blessing as a piece of toast does a porche. And yet, if they hadn't happened FIRST, I know without a doubt I couldn't have survived what came later. As awful and horrible as they were, they were gifts from God, that I actually treasure. Not for any inherant goodness (we're talking some vile things), but because they made me strong enough to cope (even if coping badly) with what was to come. ... I keep thinking of what your friend said to you: That God led him to "Sam". I don't necessarilly discount this. Meaning... May be. Also maybe not. This "Sam" could be completely unled/uninspired/desperation. Or he could be EXACTLY who Friend needs in his life, at this moment, to shape Friend into his best self. Whether that's through positive means (self confidence, learning love, even making an unpopular decision... Hundreds and hundreds of the beneficial things a person can "get" out of pursuing and being on a relationship) OR whether its negative (broken heart, feeling used, feeling incomplete, losing himself, amongst hundreds of negative things one can "get" in a relationship). I'm not God. I can't say or see what will happen. But Ive seen the "mysterious ways" thing often enough... That Im loathe to discount the possibility. Let me tell you about someone not really named Abby. Stealing is a sin. If Abby hadn't been stealing cars, she'd never have been adopted by her parents. Never grown up into the amaaaaazing young woman she is today. Never gotten an education, married, become a mom that I freely co-opt her stuff from all the time. Never been the big sister to her adoptive parents. We talk about "lost years" fairly often. In Abby's case, boosting cars kept her out of prostitution, and landed her smack dab in a loving family. Is stealing cars wrong? Absolutely. Her stealing undoubtedly had untold negative effects across the board. To many people. Hate the SIN. The life she leads now would not have been possible without that sin. Doesn't make it not sinful. It does make several key instances in her life divinely inspired. When she snuck out and learned to Hotwire. When she smacked her first/last "John", and took his car instead of his body. When she took the car that felt "right", several years later, "right" in front of a cop. When she opened her heart to her adoptive family. At key points in her life, the Spirit took what he had to work with, and she listened. Now... The spirit could well have been shouting and waving his arms to try to get her to do an award winning social studies paper that would have had the same outcome... But the first thing she could "hear" was to eavesdrop on the hot wiring lesson the boys were getting... Because part of what the spirit has "to work with" ... Is US. Love the Sinner. ..... In my own life, Ive learned to TRY and listen to what feels RIGHT. Because even if it doesn't make much sense in my head looking forward, it makes perfect sense looking back. So, while before I suggested you pray for XYZ? I take it back. Pray for what's right for YOU. For what YOU should do. How to be the best person you can be to help with your friend. I don't know what that will look like. But whatever it is will feel right, and be right, for you. All my best. BW